[Discussion] Thoughts on how XY will affect fangames?

[Cilerba]

If, for some reason, you haven't heard the announcement of the two new Pokémon games, watch this:



In what ways do you think fangames will change with generation VI being introduced? If you're the developer of a fangame, do you plan on changing up your game once the games are released/further information on them is released?

[WinterKirby]

I do fully intend on adding the new Pokémon into my productions. Of course, acquiring usable sprites may or may not be an obstacle.

[Nintendork15]

Too sooon...?
Regardless, I'm adding the starters to my fan game because I currently need fillers for my Pokedex.
I plan to add their evoluotions and any new ones that take my fancy when annouced.

I think this'll be an eye opener for us, I'm sure more people will try a Fully 3D enviroment and Modelled people games, but we've all seen them before.
And maybe some people will try 'demake' the games when released, who knows?

[ChaosLord]

If you're talking about whether or not people will switch over to 3D engines, I doubt it. More than likely though, the Pokemon X and Y region will be devamped to Gen 5 and below graphics, and once more information(Or the game itself) is released, someone on here will probably spend time adding the Metadata and etc. for Pokemon Essentials.

[Nintendork15]

Originally Posted by ChaosLord

If you're talking about whether or not people will switch over to 3D engines, I doubt it. More than likely though, the Pokemon X and Y region will be devamped to Gen 5 and below graphics, and once more information(Or the game itself) is released, someone on here will probably spend time adding the Metadata and etc. for Pokemon Essentials.

A lot of users have come and gone with 3D engines, all of which slowly died away, there is one floating round the forum, with out screenshots, so i doubt that'll happen.
My point is people were jumping onto the 3D band wagon way before this, but I'm guessing this could make that band wagon a whole lot Bigger!

[venom12]

It will be problem i think to put all sprites of pokemons to essentials, because firts they are in 3ds format, so ripping then will be hard, tilesets the same, for now we dont have tool to rip to those 3ds graphics. So i dont have idea. If someone will make all new sprites for essentials, i could put them in, but the chance is like 1%

[JNathan]

Originally Posted by venom12

It will be problem i think to put all sprites of pokemons to essentials, because firts they are in 3ds format, so ripping then will be hard, tilesets the same, for now we dont have tool to rip to those 3ds graphics. So i dont have idea. If someone will make all new sprites for essentials, i could put them in, but the chance is like 1%

I agree with what you said. It will be hard for people to rip out graphics from these games. Before they do so, it will probably take a long time. So, i don't think the next version of Pokemon Essentials will include their tilesets.

[Nintendork15]

Originally Posted by venom12

It will be problem i think to put all sprites of pokemons to essentials, because firts they are in 3ds format, so ripping then will be hard, tilesets the same, for now we dont have tool to rip to those 3ds graphics. So i dont have idea. If someone will make all new sprites for essentials, i could put them in, but the chance is like 1%

There are no sprites to rip.
It's all 3D models, the pokémon and humans.

[Maruno]

For some utterly strange reason, XY still use grid-based maps. That makes it easier for RMXP/Essentials games to remain relevant. Of course, demand/attempts for perspective-mapped games will increase.

As for the Gen 6 Pokémon sprites... there won't be any. There will still be icon sprites, of course, which haven't changed since Gen 3 (surely they can afford to paint them in more than 2 colours by now?!), so that's not so bad. Gen 6 Pokémon are going to be fan-made sprites, but that won't put many people off using them.

Any and all graphics in XY are absolutely going to be "de-vamped" and made compatible with RMXP. Eventually.

There's going to be a drive by some people (you know who you are) to overhaul their battle system to look like Gen 6, as if the current battle system doesn't work perfectly fine and is inferior to pictures of a non-playable alternative. I don't think it'll be a huge drive, though, as it seems like too much hassle for someone to recreate with sprites.

Overall, I don't think fangames will change that much. Once some Pokémon sprites have been made, and once new tilesets have been made people will add them to their games; however, from what we know so far, there's nothing remarkable that could feasibly be added to a fangame (particularly one made with the limited RMXP).

Of course, what do I know about making fangames?

It would be nice to see a project start up to make a simple (properly) 3D engine, but I suspect even that is beyond the wit of anyone who cares.

[DaSpirit]

Originally Posted by venom12

It will be problem i think to put all sprites of pokemons to essentials, because firts they are in 3ds format, so ripping then will be hard, tilesets the same, for now we dont have tool to rip to those 3ds graphics. So i dont have idea. If someone will make all new sprites for essentials, i could put them in, but the chance is like 1%

Ripping from the DS was no problem. I'm sure someone will figure it out.

Anyway, GameMaker supports 3d models. As soon as the ROM is ripped, I could attempt to make something of it.

[Nintendork15]

Originally Posted by Maruno

For some utterly strange reason, XY still use grid-based maps. That makes it easier for RMXP/Essentials games to remain relevant. Of course, demand/attempts for perspective-mapped games will increase.

As for the Gen 6 Pokémon sprites... there won't be any. There will still be icon sprites, of course, which haven't changed since Gen 3 (surely they can afford to paint them in more than 2 colours by now?!), so that's not so bad. Gen 6 Pokémon are going to be fan-made sprites, but that won't put many people off using them.

Any and all graphics in XY are absolutely going to be "de-vamped" and made compatible with RMXP. Eventually.

There's going to be a drive by some people (you know who you are) to overhaul their battle system to look like Gen 6, as if the current battle system doesn't work perfectly fine and is inferior to pictures of a non-playable alternative. I don't think it'll be a huge drive, though, as it seems like too much hassle for someone to recreate with sprites.

Overall, I don't think fangames will change that much. Once some Pokémon sprites have been made, and once new tilesets have been made people will add them to their games; however, from what we know so far, there's nothing remarkable that could feasibly be added to a fangame (particularly one made with the limited RMXP).

Of course, what do I know about making fangames?

It would be nice to see a project start up to make a simple (properly) 3D engine, but I suspect even that is beyond the wit of anyone who cares.

How do you know that there is icon sprites?
And how do you know they haven't revamped them or the party screen altogether to support 3D models?
No Menus nor Sprited based work was shown in the trailer.

[Maruno]

Originally Posted by Nintendork15

How do you know that there is icon sprites?
And how do you know they haven't revamped them or the party screen altogether to support 3D models?
No Menus nor Sprited based work was shown in the trailer.

Because it would just be daft to have any kind of party screen other than the one we have, which shows all 6 Pokémon at once plus name/HP/something for each of them. Given that sensibility, you then realise that you'd only have a small space for a graphical representation of the Pokémon, and that it wouldn't be worth using a model there, hence icons.

I'm sure they could do alternatives, like use portraits instead. It's unlikely, though. Yes, I don't know for certain, but I really don't think it would change.

[Yamiidenryuu]

Didn't Stadium use portraits for party screens, actually? I think they were just the 3D models cropped to only show the face. They could easily do that here, more easily than trying to incorporate sprites into an otherwise all-3D game. And it would get them out of having to make new sprites for the new Pokemon, since all they need is the one model.

[~Glacia~Frost~]

So I joined PokéCommunity last night in search of ideas for a fangame that I may make in the future; and then the next morning I see the announcement for Pokémon X and Y and instead of giving me new ideas it only reaffirmed some ideas I already had, such as a complete 3D graphic system in overworld and battle screens, a fox based Fire starter and a frog based Water starter ~wow~
For other fangames, I'm not really sure what may happen yet as we only know very little about X and Y for now, though I might say more about this as more information is revealed :)

[Luka S.J.]

The 3D they use for mapping is far more refined than anything we've seen from them so far. The one thing that I disliked about generation 5, was their use of 3D, and the way it was executed. There were minor details that I liked though, like the lookout in B/W/2. The thing that jumps out for me is the battle system. I don't know if any of the fangames now will be able to come even close to competing with them. Not to forget, that the game is 3D, as in on the 3DS. I have a 3DS and having Mario and others jump out of the screen, and playing in real 3D, is one of the best gaming experiences I ever had. This is one of the reasons that I think why the fangames shouldn't try to replicate what Nintendo is doing now, as we can't anymore. I don't think a fangame will ever come out that will replicate the feeling you get when you'd play this Pokemon game on their hand held. I'm not going to be upgrading my game, I'm certain on that. I may or may not add the generation 6 Pokemon either. I just don't see any point in all of us, who made progress, to now try to start again, just for a graphical overhaul. Generation 4 and 5 were already visually appealing as is. There is no real need for the fangame community to go into full 3D now.

[Ayutac]

I agree to the common opinion, 3D-Modelling is another level and unless someone is giving an engine for that, I guess nobody will make it through dreaming.

[ActionReplayer]

Maruno will most likely add to essentials the new moves, someone will make fan sprites of the new pokemon. I don't see anything else happening as a consequence to the sixth gen, at least nothing relevant.

[D. Lawride]

Like Luka mentioned, there's now way fan games are going to compete with the official games graphics-wise. I still think we've reached a point in fan gamed development where we only have two options: grow stale and stick to what he had before, or be innovative in ways different from Nintendo's. I seriously doubt anyone is willing to build an entire 3D engine that will probably not even come close to the official quality.

[Conan Edogawa]

Originally Posted by D. Lawride

Like Luka mentioned, there's now way fan games are going to compete with the official games graphics-wise. I still think we've reached a point in fan gamed development where we only have two options: grow stale and stick to what he had before, or be innovative in ways different from Nintendo's. I seriously doubt anyone is willing to build an entire 3D engine that will probably not even come close to the official quality.

There are already countless 3ds engines out there. What truly makes it difficult to replicate is coding all the systems (assuming that someone rips all the models from the rom when released). The jump between 2d and 3d is huge, and changes the coding drastically.

[D. Lawride]

Originally Posted by Conan Edogawa

There are already countless 3ds engines out there. What truly makes it difficult to replicate is coding all the systems (assuming that someone rips all the models from the rom when released). The jump between 2d and 3d is huge, and changes the coding drastically.

I meant so as to mimic that of the official games. Sure there are a lot of 3D engines out there already, but you'd still have to modify them in order to make them appear similar to the official one, and I'm guessing doing so is no easy task (or maybe it is, I've never worked with 3D so I can't say for sure). The point is that 3D isn't within the reach of expertise of most fan game developers.

[Conan Edogawa]

Originally Posted by D. Lawride

I meant so as to mimic that of the official games. Sure there are a lot of 3D engines out there already, but you'd still have to modify them in order to make them appear similar to the official one, and I'm guessing doing so is no easy task (or maybe it is, I've never worked with 3D so I can't say for sure). The point is that 3D isn't within the reach of expertise of most fan game developers.

I see where you're coming from. But from what I've seen in the trailer there was nothing to fantastic. So I think it's a matter of a starter kit rather than an engine. And I do agree with you there; creating a kit like essentials to replicate the new generation would be quite difficult.

[DaSpirit]

Originally Posted by Conan Edogawa

And I do agree with you there; creating a kit like essentials to replicate the new generation would be quite difficult.

But it's not impossible. You'd be surprised what comes in the future. There were a few projects I've seen that looked better than X and Y. Matching it should be no problem. Whether RPG Maker is powerful enough to handle it by then (people's computer's get better), or everyone will move to another engine is a different question.

[Luka S.J.]

Originally Posted by D. Lawride

I meant so as to mimic that of the official games. Sure there are a lot of 3D engines out there already, but you'd still have to modify them in order to make them appear similar to the official one, and I'm guessing doing so is no easy task (or maybe it is, I've never worked with 3D so I can't say for sure). The point is that 3D isn't within the reach of expertise of most fan game developers.

There are 3D engines out there, and 3D is possible to achieve. I don't know about everybody else, but even if I could make a 3D engine that resembles Pokemon's, I would never be bothered to do it. What is the point in taking such drastic measures for a fangame? In the end, GameFreak makes a huge profit out of their hard work, we don't have that. Not to mention that we aren't talking about just normal gaming 3D, we're talking about REAL 3D, as in stuff jumping out of the screen and other crap. Who can emulate that? Not only is that super difficult to code/make, but we don't even have the right hardware available to make it happen. So as you can see, the fanbase will never be able to emulate this gaming experience. And it's not worth the time and effort it will take. We all make these games as a hobby. I spend only a few hours a week working on my game. None of us have the time or patience to take fangames to that "big level".

[DaSpirit]

Luka S.J., you are emphasizing it. Real 3D isn't hard to achieve. It's simply Matrix Algebra - and the GPU does it all for you anyway. Either way, all you need to do is a slight downward projection and some arrays for models and you're done. If you're doing 2.5d all you need to do is calculate the angle of the camera and apply it to the stack. Have you seen these?


I didn't mean to advertise but it's "real" 3D and I programmed it. Using character models will actually make my code shorter and easier to understand. It's not hard. A 3D battle engine will not be any different either. AND I intend to give away the source code for free when I'm done with the engine.

[Maruno]

I don't think anyone wants to try to emulate the optical illusion that the 3DS does (the so-called "real" 3D Luka was talking about). You could try some variety of 3D glasses if you wanted. It's still beyond pointless, though.

It'd certainly be easier to make a kit, like Essentials, to make 3D fangames with, rather than one person/team trying to make an entire 3D fangame themselves. More help, more input, lower aspirations, etc. I think limiting such an engine to just 3D maps would be best, as Fakemon would still be sprites which are easier to make. This hypothetical engine would definitely not be RMXP, of course. DaSpirit, I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with; I know nothing about 3D stuff but it seems interesting.

I am somehow reminded of the Justice Associates and their world-building. I even wonder if a first-person perspective might work.

I think this is off-topic, though.