[Discussion] Thoughts on how XY will affect fangames?

[Luka S.J.]

Originally Posted by DaSpirit

Luka S.J., you are emphasizing it. Real 3D isn't hard to achieve. It's simply Matrix Algebra - and the GPU does it all for you anyway. Either way, all you need to do is a slight downward projection and some arrays for models and you're done. If you're doing 2.5d all you need to do is calculate the angle of the camera and apply it to the stack. Have you seen these?

I didn't mean to advertise but it's "real" 3D and I programmed it. Using character models will actually make my code shorter and easier to understand. It's not hard. A 3D battle engine will not be any different either. AND I intend to give away the source code for free when I'm done with the engine.

I have been following on your game engine, and I know that you use 3D models which are then displayed on the map (xAlien makes those houses). That wasn't my point. Also, that is not what I'm referring to when I say "real 3D", when I say "real 3D", I'm talking about the parallax barrier autostereoscopy display the 3DS utilizes, and allows for stunning glasses-free 3D. Your engine, while it is impressive, is nowhere near that. Your engine resembles what the map scene in B/W looks like - we're one year behind that, and GameFreak took it up several notches. I'm saying that there is no point to try to emulate that stage, the 3DS one. As I said before, it is too much work for a fangame. If I was doing things like that, I'd invest my time and effort into a lucrative game.

Originally Posted by Maruno

I don't think anyone wants to try to emulate the optical illusion that the 3DS does (the so-called "real" 3D Luka was talking about). You could try some variety of 3D glasses if you wanted. It's still beyond pointless, though.

That is exactly what I'm talking about. There will be people de-vamping the tiles, which is also pointless though, as it takes away from the 6th gen experience. I'm saying that people who want to overhaul their games now that the new gen has been showcased, would just be wasting their time. GameFreak passed the point where we try to emulate the experience of playing the official games. I honestly don't think that going for the "gen 6 look" would be a good idea. Why not just enjoy the game when it comes out, and do one's own thing in the meanwhile?

[DaSpirit]

Originally Posted by Luka S.J.

Also, that is not what I'm referring to when I say "real 3D", when I say "real 3D", I'm talking about the parallax barrier autostereoscopy display the 3DS utilizes, and allows for stunning glasses-free 3D. Your engine, while it is impressive, is nowhere near that. Your engine resembles what the map scene in B/W looks like - we're one year behind that, and GameFreak took it up several notches. I'm saying that there is no point to try to emulate that stage, the 3DS one. As I said before, it is too much work for a fangame. If I was doing things like that, I'd invest my time and effort into a lucrative game.

Oh. In that case, what's the point? Barely anyone has a 3D computer monitor. When I think of gaming, I do not think about 3D, it's only a gimmick. I honestly forgot that the 3DS had this feature.

I can easily change the map scene in a matter of an hour. Besides, as soon as rips start flying across the internet, it would be very easy to change stuff (perhaps even easier than spriting). Changing the way the character looks would be as easy as changing a single 64x64 texture and then you're done. Seems easier to modify to me.

[Luka S.J.]

Originally Posted by DaSpirit

Oh. In that case, what's the point? Barely anyone has a 3D computer monitor.

This is why I'm saying it would be pointless to go after the gen 6 look, as we wouldn't be able to emulate it properly - hence taking away from the whole experience. I can understand going for the 2.5D look GameFreak was using until now; it can be done properly.

[Maruno]

Originally Posted by Luka S.J.

That is exactly what I'm talking about. There will be people de-vamping the tiles, which is also pointless though, as it takes away from the 6th gen experience. I'm saying that people who want to overhaul their games now that the new gen has been showcased, would just be wasting their time. GameFreak passed the point where we try to emulate the experience of playing the official games. I honestly don't think that going for the "gen 6 look" would be a good idea. Why not just enjoy the game when it comes out, and do one's own thing in the meanwhile?

You underestimate the desire for "new for the sake of new" that many fangame makers have. How many times do people change tilesets to the latest style just because it exists? That's why the tiles will be de-vamped in the first place. It doesn't matter to them that said tiles will look too flat or bland in a 2D game (and I for one don't like the lack of outlines around objects and forced top-heaviness of structures in some existing tilesets - that's why Essentials uses FRLG tilesets, because they were made for a 2D game).

Certainly it's not worth trying to replicate Gen 6 and its models, but people are definitely going to have a go with sprites. They'll fail and give up, but it'll happen.

Originally Posted by DaSpirit

I can easily change the map scene in a matter of an hour. Besides, as soon as rips start flying across the internet, it would be very easy to change stuff (perhaps even easier than spriting). Changing the way the character looks would be as easy as changing a single 64x64 texture and then you're done. Seems easier to modify to me.

This is a very appealing approach. I like the idea of having premade objects you can just put down (like a whole tree or building), rather than painting bits of them over tiles with the possibility of making mistakes. Mapping would certainly be easier even than in RMXP this way. The ground itself is like an RMXP map, except with many more available autotiles and some tile randomisers (for random grass tiles), and a terrain raiser-lowerer like in The Sims. Passability is a separate thing like in the GBA games, rather than a property of tiles. I can imagine it now...

[Rayquaza.]

At least they haven't lost the good old grid map system, it'll make ripping of 3d models easier than if they had just scrapped the whole grid system. If I may also say that in terms of tilesets, essentials is way behind. Graphics/PBS Folder wise, Gen V has only just been slightly incorporated into essentials. I think it'll be sometime before someone rips all the 3d models and sprites from Gen VI because no-one as of late has even come close to cracking the 3ds so it may take longer to get hold of anything (graphics-wise) to do with Gen VI. My advice: Sprite your own stuff, we all knew this day was coming, just not so soon.

[Maruno]

Originally Posted by Rayquaza.

...in terms of tilesets, essentials is way behind.

You say "way behind", I say "uses tilesets created specifically to be used in the way they are, which are proven to contain all the tiles needed to make an entire game (plus some), and which don't need credits other than me (because I ripped/made them)".

[Nintendork15]

Originally Posted by Rayquaza.

At least they haven't lost the good old grid map system, it'll make ripping of 3d models easier than if they had just scrapped the whole grid system. If I may also say that in terms of tilesets, essentials is way behind. Graphics/PBS Folder wise, Gen V has only just been slightly incorporated into essentials. I think it'll be sometime before someone rips all the 3d models and sprites from Gen VI because no-one as of late has even come close to cracking the 3ds so it may take longer to get hold of anything (graphics-wise) to do with Gen VI. My advice: Sprite your own stuff, we all knew this day was coming, just not so soon.

Actually I was seeing something like this coming very very soon.
Only, I was seeing a console based game, and more of a new Shadow Pokémon Based game.

Looking on dA, lots of people are spriting Pokémon from XY.
Mostly the starters though.

[Rayquaza.]

I think you'll find that's because there are only a total of 5 new pokémon that were revealed right from the announcement, whose detail are very scarce as of present.

[Nintendork15]

Originally Posted by Rayquaza.

I think you'll find that's because there are only a total of 5 new pokémon that were revealed right from the announcement, whose detail are very scarce as of present.

And mostly the starters are being sprited.

Also, lots of people have drawn many fan arts of the evolution, some people could sprite them for use.

[pkmn.master]

I don't think that many fangames will make dramatic changes with these titles. There are several advancements, starting with the obivous 3D, which is near impossible to render (at least to compare to the power of the 3ds) in RPG Maker branded engines. Any new mechanics that come with this generation, however, will be more commonly seen. As for the integration of Pokemon, you might not see as many as you think, mainly because there aren't any sprites for these Pokemon right off the get-go since the game is rendered in 3d. All sprites might have to be custom sprited, at least until Nintendo releases official ones. I am excited about X and Y, and I am equally excited to see how people, and myself, tackle this in our fangames.

Originally Posted by Maruno

You say "way behind", I say "uses tilesets created specifically to be used in the way they are, which are proven to contain all the tiles needed to make an entire game (plus some), and which don't need credits other than me (because I ripped/made them)".

I'm pretty sure he is just referring to the current graphic integration in default essentials being behind by three generations, which is ok, since the default version should just be used to show what essentials can do, and leave the rest of the work to the developer.

I don't expect to see many tiles from any future games, now that they are in 3d.

[FL .]

In my fangame plans (before BW) I think in several possibilities, Gen V or VI be 3D or not. If Game Freak uses 3D sprites, soon or later we will have an entire set of 2D sprites. This may make the fangames even more unique.

When 3DS is announced, being the 3D the main feature that is followed almost religiously by the companies (I mean that almost every game need to use 3D in some way) I predicted that Game Freak has 98% of chance of making the Gen VI base game with 3D cell-shaded battles, since, in interviews, the producers are searching for a way to made the official games with 3D content using anime-style graphics. When 3D pokédex came, the probably even rise, So Pokémon XY (this name sound soo internal...) announcement came (more earlier that I expected), again with three elemental starters and two legendary pokémon (probably chased by the enemy team again).

For my game (Pokémon Island), I thought before on several cool features for a version 2.0 and wish to put in the game. The new pokémon (with 2D sprites), like I planned before, will be one of these features, although I expected only in 2014 the japanese release, so I planned on release some weeks after the american release (in late 2014 or 2015), but this isn't be possible now.

A 3D fangame? With the ridiculous amount of completed 2D games here? Give 20 years or more and someone in this forum will finishes a fully Pokémon 3D Game.

I can't believe how people follow Game Freak. Of corse, advantage exists, but you don't need to wait the official games come to 3D to come too. I like this change because this may help the fangames to follow less Game Freak, and, maybe, talking about gameplay, go beyond!

Originally Posted by Luka S.J.

I just don't see any point in all of us, who made progress, to now try to start again, just for a graphical overhaul.

Originally Posted by Maruno

I don't think anyone wants to try to emulate the optical illusion that the 3DS does (the so-called "real" 3D Luka was talking about). You could try some variety of 3D glasses if you wanted. It's still beyond pointless, though.

QFTW

Originally Posted by Maruno

You say "way behind", I say "uses tilesets created specifically to be used in the way they are, which are proven to contain all the tiles needed to make an entire game (plus some), and which don't need credits other than me (because I ripped/made them)".

I agree with Rayquaza. If more that 80% prefer Gen IV/V/VI tilesets and will use them and if aren't bad, official or unofficial, made by several people or not, I believe that the best for this community project will be to use theses tiles, but this is subject to another thread.

[Luka S.J.]

Originally Posted by Maruno

This is a very appealing approach. I like the idea of having premade objects you can just put down (like a whole tree or building), rather than painting bits of them over tiles with the possibility of making mistakes.

I saw a 3D RPG creating program a while ago. The map editor seems nice and simple enough, and is just like what was talked about around.

So, to not go off topic: I think gen 6 Pokemon are probably going to be sprited by fans in B/W style (we might even see some animated ones). I don't know about tiles, still don't think it's a good idea. Oh, and the protagonists and characters might be drawn in B/W style as well (speaking of OWs, and sprites). I'm not going to do it, lol, don't know how to sprite.

[Zephyr+]

I'm sure there will be no shortage of Pokemon sprites, at least, but as for overworlds, seeing as 3D tilesets will be incredibly difficult to rip and implement based on the average skill level of coders here, I don't foresee a transition to 3D overworlds any time soon. 2D (or faux-3D) will probably remain the default for fangames. At any rate, it's just an aesthetic difference.

What's more likely is that there will be alterations to the core gameplay. Just like D/P introduced the Physical/Special split, and B/W introduced Triple and Rotation Battles, I have little doubts that Pokemon XY will bring something new that will change the face of the metagame. That's going to require an updated Essentials engine, as well as included data on all new Pokemon, attacks, items, etc.