Disney: ~A Whole New World of films~

[AlexOzzyCake]

Disney are one of the most well-known production companies currently active in the world and as a result they have gathered a lot of mixed reviews over their productions. There have been many criticisms of Disney including claims of stereotyping characters in their films and using subliminal messaging in their work, yet they still manage to be the favourite company of millions with their films grossing incredible profits with every new release and touching the hearts of millions every single day. So what is your opinion of the Disney company? Have you watched many Disney films? If so, which were your favourites and why?

[Livewire]

Endearing films aside, I'm not really a fan of Disney Co. using their billions to meddle with other franchises and making them sappy, watered-down and kiddie.

[dbp]

From an animator's perspective, I can't help but look at Disney beyond the corporate angle (except that whole Mike Eisner deal from years back). I used to joke about Disney being evil and whatnots because it's such an easy template to follow, but now I think more about the roots of the corporation and the legacy that Walt Disney started. Without his vision and ideas, would animation be where it is today? Seriously, I really wonder how long it would have lasted, especially when you factor in the big budget films under the Disney canon that started with Snow White.

Holy crud. What would I be doing if things went horribly wrong!? Oh man, I can't imagine how I would have turned out.

Anyway, to me, it's really amazing and fun to study everything that happens behind the scenes, from concept to the final product, and how Disney came up with new ways to elevate the art form into new unexplored territory. Art anthologies filled with concept paintings and sketches, a little nuggets of trivia and backstory... God I drool thinking about that stuff. If I had lots and lots of money, like lottery money, I'd pay off my student loans and spend a good chunk of it on art books.

The fact that Disney (as well as Sullivan Bluth Studios) largely had a hand in creating the animation renaissance is an amazement in and of itself. A lot of people are familiar with these works like Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, and The Lion King. Without works like these giving animation a very much needed kick in the pants, we'd still be in the dark ages. Maybe something even bleaker than that. And because animation is taken for granted by and large, I feel that sometimes people don't realize what they have until it's too late, and even then, people get weaned into settling for less slowly but surely. I really, really wanted The Princess and the Frog to kick things off again, but I suppose lightning doesn't strike twice. Still, it's one of my favorite Disney movies even if animation today is pretty much the same (cheaper and faster ).

I don't have many favorite films individually. I like them more for artistic merits than for sentimental or nostalgic value. Honestly, I'm not nostalgic for any Disney movie. But I still marvel at the technical accomplishments. The ballroom scene in Beauty and the Beast? Of course cartoons can pull that off today (and it looks awful in comparison when they do), but you have to remember what a big deal that was back then. In fact, it's still a big deal considering that it still looks good! I feel like Disney needs to go back to being an innovator rather than a follower. Unfortunately, Disney is also a business, so it needs to make money.

I'd propose (which I know people are gonna hate) buying out a couple of other franchises and what not, but just for the sole purpose of marketing products (don't fiddle with the integrity of the IPs, though). Why? Monetary safety net. This allows them to test the waters a bit more often with theatrical innovations and experiments. Unlike the video game industry, where (independant/up and coming) studios can emerge and revolutionize the way we play, animation is a lot less technology based and still a method of passive entertainment. Most people are going to play follow the leader or the current trend just so they can sell some shirts. I feel like if Disney isn't the innovator (or if WB studios can't get their rear back in gear), then no one else in the United States is going to try. Smaller and/or foreign studios have really amazing productions, but they just don't carry the same amount of clout. The United States rules most of the entertainment industry as it is, which is unfair given the animation talent that exists beyond borders of the US of A. So that's how I feel about Disney. Animation wouldn't be where it is today without Walt, and the bold new directions some of the feature animations took. I think Disney needs to reprise their former role, look back at what got them to where they are in the first place, and get crackin' on creating that illusion of life.

And Disney needs to act fast because I'm getting really sick of seeing lazy lazy Flash cartoons on TV. I NEVER thought people would acquire a taste for that, especially on broadcast TV, but here we are.

[Scarf]

There's a lot one can say about Disney and it looks like someone already did that.

For me, there's an entertainment factor which isn't really there outside of a couple of films. I can appreciate the history and role the studio has had for animation (more now than even since I was at the Walt Disney museum only a few weeks ago and also learned my grandma was an ink and paint girl for a short while) but the brand today isn't something that inspires me and I don't think it inspires others like it used to.

Disney has a reputation, fair or not, but I really like what dbp said about Disney needing to be an innovator again. I would really like that to happen and I'm also pretty sad that the Princess and the Frog flopped. It's kind of a blessing and a curse to be Disney today. People expect certain things from you and while they'll give you tons of money for that you're kind of stuck in that role.

[Antemortem]

Everyone before me are sticks in the mud! Now, I'm not saying I'm a huge fan of Disney or a fan of what they do with their money, but the quality of movies they produce is, for the most part, undeniably brilliant. That's also not to say that they don't have their flops - as does every company in regards to anything/everything - but there are still those few gems.

For example, Up was one heck of a fantastic movie. The animation was some of the best I'd seen in years, the plot was somewhat unique, though I'm sure it's been done plenty of times before, but for a Disney movie it wasn't half bad. I also enjoyed the characters, though only one of them was notably dynamic and I like characters to be as developed as possible.

If I go on about their goods and bads I'll be rambling for pages, so I'll stop there, but I am a fan of Disney. Now, what they plan to do in the future - here's praying for you, Star Wars - I'm not super excited, but otherwise? Yeah.

EDIT: Forgot Up is a Pixar film but I feel my point stands regardless! D:

[AdrianD]

Growing up, My favorite was Lion King. Still is. Finding Nemo is my 2nd fav.

I too grow concern about a 7th Star wars, Saw the films. I liked them, but a hardcore fan but I think that its going to deviate from the original concept of Star Wars. Just dont be surprised if you see Goofy or Mickey in there -__-

[dbp]

@Antemortem - Hey, I'm not a stick in the mud. D: I was giving Disney credit where it was due!

Also, Up is a Pixar film. That's a whole other topic, but I actually forgot to mention them. In a way, Pixar picked up where Disney left off, and this is plain as day. Let's take a look at the parallels:

Disney produces films like Who Framed Roger Rabbit, Oliver & Company, The Little Mermaid and Beauty and The Beast - animation for television goes back to creation based on artistic value as opposed to existing as product endorsement. Early Nicktoons (especially Ren and Stimpy), Warner Bros cartoons such as Batman: The Animated Series and Tiny Toons are examples. Primetime animation comes back in the form of The Simpsons, something that hasn't been sucessful since The Flintstones. Other film studios try to create features to compete directly with Disney, usually with a similar animation style.

Pixar creates Toy Story and follows up with A Bug's Life, and then Toy Story 2 (and if you want, Monsters, Inc. in 2001) - Television animation hadn't changed into all the 3D cartoons we see today, but the seed was planted. People start to incorporated computer generated effects and other bits of CGI where applicable. Film studios, notably Dreamworks, drop traditional animation in favor of riding the new big wave of 3D animated works.

Both Disney and Pixar were seen as pioneers, and everyone else just played follow the leader. Today, Dreamworks isn't really a derivative of Pixar anymore now that it has it's own notable films. Disney, on the other hand, seems to be playing second fiddle to Pixar, and now seems to be the new Pixar derivative. I haven't seen Wreck-it-Ralph, though, but it seems like it's nothing Pixar couldn't've done (better) themselves. Of course with recent outings like Cars 2 and Brave, that can be contended.

Pixar either is or was the new innovator. However, I'm leery about where things are going what with the string of sequels. I'm not jumping ship yet, though. I'm sure they've still got it in them to produce more great stuff, like I'm sure Disney can too. At this point, though, if there's no where else to innovate, then it comes down to ingenuity. John Lasseter is probably the best thing for both companies, as he still understands what makes both of them special, and knows the company's roots. Without him, we wouldn't have Princess and the Frog or Winnie the Pooh. The jury's still out on what'll become of 2D animation since neither of them met expectations, but without John's involvement, Disney would still be under the impression that 2D is dead.

Well, anyway, before I turn this into a topic about animation in general, I'd agree that there's an undeniably quality to most of their films. It's even more amazing when you think about the talent behind it. That's a ton of people with formal training right there, and it's something not everyone can do. You have to be one heck of a draftsmen to layout anything at the caliber of Disney's best. And to those who did the tight inbetweens, you darn well better know how to draw, and I mean draw flawlessly.

Okay, so now that I've included Pixar into this, I think I've finally said all I could possibly say without falling into redundancy. I think there'll always be some fear, though, into what Disney will do next, because most people are still approaching it from a corporate angle. I wouldn't worry about Star Wars. I would say that if George Lucas didn't already sabbatoge the franchise himself (not just the new films, but the constant retooling of the first 3 movies), Disney's not going to make it any worse. They just handle the marketing, they aren't the content creators. I think that's what people get confused about. It's the same with Marvel. Disney just has rights to promote it with all the rest of their stuff. The original or current writers are still responsible for the canons of their IPs.

[LilJz1234]

I loved Disney back then. The reason why I say that is because, the movies they made during the rennaisance era and before that were absolutely great. The movies now are pretty much meh. Althought I haven't seen Up yet, I would wanna watch it.

The thing I loved about recent Disney movies were Toy Story 3 and I'm pretty hyped about the prequel to Monsters Inc.

I also don't really like the shows they have on Disney now.. I mean, Wizards of Waverly Place, A.N.T Farm? Really?

I prefer when they had Timon and Pumba, Buzz Lightyear of Star Command and Hercules. I know that they have passed the days of cartoon animations and they're trying to go all CGI, but most of the time, they try to have good visual effects rather than good storyline that people will enjoy.

Disney still have it's good moments, but it just ain't what it used to be.

[Pinkie-Dawn]

Disney is my childhood! Whether the company's in their highest points or their lowest points, it still survives as an empire of media entertainment. I still want them to buy the Godzilla franchise after they purchased Marvel and Lucas Films. As for the decision of whether or not 2D is dead because two of their recent 2D films flopped, wasn't it because of bad timing? The Princess and the Frog wascompeting against James Cameron's Avatar, while Winnie the Pooh was competing against the last Harry Potter movie.

[Digimon Kaiser]

Let's see. My favorite has always been The Lion King, since for some reason, I've always had the strangest soft spot for talking animals.

[dbp]

Oh LilJz1234... you're gonna make me cry. :( *sigh* Well, I guess Disney bought Pixar technically.

Pinkie-Dawn, that's an interesting point you bring up. I've never looked into the timing, myself. It's something to investigate, but there's no denying where the audiences are flocking as well for current trends in animation. I recently read a journal article that I might apply to my thesis paper, but it essentially shows in detail how audiences shifted from 2D to 3D big time starting way back with Toy Story, and the amount of money each 3D major release (I think between Pixar and Dream Works) has made compared to the highest grossing 2D movie, which I think was Bambi. In short, Bambi didn't even come close. And the article was published before Toy Story 3, so I'm not entirely sure where Bambi sits now.

I think the general public finds 3D more interesting overall, but it could be an aesthetic. Perhaps they find it more relatable in its realism? Maybe the story telling from Pixar's eariler movies makes people of all ages assume each 3D movie's going to be a deep experience? Or maybe older audiences (from let's say late teens to single adults) have a "cartoons are for kids mentality" that they can't get past when they see drawings in motion. I don't really know for sure, I'm not sure anyone knows. There are exceptions of course in the form of animation enthusiasts, but we're a small number in the grand scheme (and not only that, but there's a lot of people who still enjoy animation well into adulthood who just aren't motivated enough to see a moive. Tickets are expensive, movies are usually a social event, blahdablah blah).

There are many variables, but I think the only one corporate Disney focuses on to the point of exclusivity is the money. I recall PotF getting really positive reviews from critics overall, but that didn't matter at all. The cash speaks the loudest, and I feel like Tangled's monetary success didn't necessarily make a good case for 2D following immediately afterword.

Anyhow, I also agree with the Godzilla sentiment. But do you mean Godzilla specifically, or all of Toho? I'd buy Mothra plushies in an instant if they started making some. They probably already are, somewhere.

[Pinkie-Dawn]

Originally Posted by dbp

Anyhow, I also agree with the Godzilla sentiment. But do you mean Godzilla specifically, or all of Toho? I'd buy Mothra plushies in an instant if they started making some. They probably already are, somewhere.

All of Toho, of course. XD

Too bad Warner Bros. has the rights for the reboot coming in 2014, which is Godzilla's 60th anniversary.

I wonder how the animated shorts from Toho Kingdom will do if Disney ever bought Toho. Perhaps Disney/Pixar/Marvel cameos since they've already made Star Wars parodies with Gabara, King Kong, and Mechagodzilla.

[Toshiro.]

Im fond of Disney. I mean, they arent my favorite company ever, but I dont dislike them either. Im neutral with them I guess.

I do love me The Lion King though, always been my favorite Disney film.

[TRIFORCE89]

I adore Disney, or at least the myth of Walt (and the parks), but I want them to get back in the game of "traditional" animation. They innovate and push technological advances and techniques with their films, but lately... no one wants to see them. Even towards the end of the so-called "Disney Decade", films like Tarzan should have done better. Open Canvas (I think that's what it was called) gave a great effect. Atlantis. Fantasia 2000.

Today, look at how wonderful Paperman is. Hopefully it is a sign of things to come.

I wish Princess and the Frog did better. They need to separate traditional animation from musicals I think. Pixar has shown you don't need musicals. Not that I don't want to see them. I do. But the big "comeback" was just another musical princess movie which is kind of what they need to get away from.

And I see Pixar as Disney because they own them. But not true Disney as they are different studios. But... The Nightmare Before Christmas and Roger Rabbit weren't under Disney banners initially either.

I think Iger's been great for the company. Eisner was terrific until the end of his run. He became his own worst enemy and was slowly destroying the Disney legacy. I was totally behind Roy's "Save Disney" initiative.

Also, the "subliminal messages" stuff is largely bogus

[AlexOzzyCake]

I must admit, I've never actually seen many Disney films! I've heard they're mostly amazing and people constantly tell me I'm "missing out on my childhood" etc because of it, but I guess I'll have to find out some other time haha. The only one (that I remember) which I've partially watched was The Lion King, but I only managed to sit through about half of that in a Biology class until the bell rang for lunch so that's the best I've accomplished Disney-wise. I'd definitely like to watch some so based on people's favourites from this thread I think I'll go on a watching spree soon!

[TRIFORCE89]

Originally Posted by AlexOzzyCake

I must admit, I've never actually seen many Disney films! I've heard they're mostly amazing and people constantly tell me I'm "missing out on my childhood" etc because of it, but I guess I'll have to find out some other time haha. The only one (that I remember) which I've partially watched was The Lion King, but I only managed to sit through about half of that in a Biology class until the bell rang for lunch so that's the best I've accomplished Disney-wise. I'd definitely like to watch some so based on people's favourites from this thread I think I'll go on a watching spree soon!

Don't know how much you'd enjoy that. While they're technically well-made, they're mostly family-oriented musicals. Mainly enjoyable to adults (for the most part. There's exceptions), I think, if they watched them as a kid to begin with (nostalgia factor) or watched them with their kids. You might do well with the '90s Disney Decade stuff. That's pretty accessible. You should have no problem with Pixar flicks, they're critic darlings. But, the old old stuff? Like Snow White or Pinocchio? Keep in mind that they're very slow. Old films like Pinocchio or Fantasia (which is terrific, be sure to see Fantasia 2000 as well) weren't even popular with audiences when they were first released.

Everything is billed by Disney as a "masterpiece" (and they are, at least technically. They are achievements in animation), or beloved classics - but they really only got to that status over many many years of repeat viewings through theatre rereleases or being aired Sunday nights on ABC back in the day. Now everyone loves them.

But to jump into those older ones. Eh... not sure how well you'd do.

[Suicune™]

I used to be a big fan of Disney, not so much now but they still produce some great movies. Some of my older favorites are; Finding Nemo, Wall-E, Toy Story, Monsters INC, The Incredibles, Up etc.

[LilJz1234]

Talking about Disney, are you guys going to watch the upcoming anticipated movie 'Monsters University'?

[Tman109ner]

Disney is the example of an overachiever. The movies they make, their theme parks, and most of their head first charges turn out great! Then they go to add to them to "enhance" them and turn out killing them. IE: Star Wars

[TRIFORCE89]

Originally Posted by Tman109ner

Disney is the example of an overachiever. The movies they make, their theme parks, and most of their head first charges turn out great! Then they go to add to them to "enhance" them and turn out killing them. IE: Star Wars

Wow. They haven't even done anything with the Star Wars deal yet aside from some new merchandise.

A little quick to the gun there.

[AlexOzzyCake]

Must admit, I'm not expecting great things from the Disney Star Wars either. Not because of Disney's track record or anything (I don't know enough about them for that!), but mostly due to the Star Wars franchise not needing another addition. Plus I don't think it's the kind of saga that'll fair well from having such a big change in production halfway through and so long after the last movies. But I'll give them a chance since I absolutely love Star Wars and from what I've heard Disney are pretty great at keeping things nostalgic (although is that the feeling Star Wars should give? Hmm), so hopefully it'll be good.

Although @LilJz1234 Monsters University is something I'm definitely looking forward to <3

[TRIFORCE89]

Originally Posted by AlexOzzyCake

Must admit, I'm not expecting great things from the Disney Star Wars either. Not because of Disney's track record or anything (I don't know enough about them for that!), but mostly due to the Star Wars franchise not needing another addition. Plus I don't think it's the kind of saga that'll fair well from having such a big change in production halfway through and so long after the last movies. But I'll give them a chance since I absolutely love Star Wars and from what I've heard Disney are pretty great at keeping things nostalgic (although is that the feeling Star Wars should give? Hmm), so hopefully it'll be good.

Although @LilJz1234 Monsters University is something I'm definitely looking forward to <3

Lucas (until fairly recently, where he seems to have gotten bored with the series) always said that he envisioned 9-12 films and had a very rough high-level treatment/outline done before the first movie was ever complete. This new film is based on Lucas' original story. So, I think we're safe. And in some fresh blood and I'm hoping for the best. Lucas was his own worst enemy with the prequels.

And Disney really respects that franchise. You should check out their Star Wars ride at their parks if you've never seen it before.

[Pinkie-Dawn]

Originally Posted by Tman109ner

Disney is the example of an overachiever. The movies they make, their theme parks, and most of their head first charges turn out great! Then they go to add to them to "enhance" them and turn out killing them. IE: Star Wars

Walt Disney himself embraces enhancements, because he knew he made some mistakes from his previous projects. As long as there's imagination, it will never be complete.

[TRIFORCE89]

Originally Posted by Pinkie-Dawn

Walt Disney himself embraces enhancements, because he knew he made some mistakes from his previous projects. As long as there's imagination, it will never be complete.

Just about every animated film Walt presided over was a technical achievement.

First animated short with synchronized sound. First animated short in Technicolor. First feature-length animated film. The invention and use of the multi-plane camera. First use of stereo sound in a film. Super widescreen presentation. Surround sound.

[dbp]

And I see Pixar as Disney because they own them. But not true Disney as they are different studios. But... The Nightmare Before Christmas and Roger Rabbit weren't under Disney banners initially either.

True, but it still gives a lot of false impressions of what Disney has actually done. Most of the movies people talk about loving a lot here are technically Pixar films, which didn't exactly need Disney to begin with. The line starts to get blurred, I feel, and it turns into an "all animation is Dinsey" sort of thing.

Basically, do younger generations really like Disney, or do they think they like Disney? See what I mean? At least with Nightmare Before Christmas, despite Skellington Productions being sold off to Disney really early, people realize it's not actually part of the Disney canon. Same with WFRR. Actually, we're on a Pokemon site. I think everyone here's smart enough to know Nintendo has little to do with major decisions about the Pokemon franchise. Game Freak is a 2nd party developer, and they more of less have all the say in how they'll run their franchise. If some guy joined up here and he kept saying "I love how Nintendo made Pokemon" or "I think Nintendo shouldn't made Remoraid evolve into an octopus", he'd get corrected left and right.

I guess the problem lies in the fact that every commercial now labels everything as "Disney and Pixar's..." which gives top billing to Disney (but even then still acknowledges Pixar as its own entity), and then the fact that Disney, save for Princess and the Frog, Winnie the Pooh, and even Tangled (the obvious Disney princess thing) seems to be absolutely indistinguishable from Pixar to the general/common audience. And I've seen it from both sides. People who are usually more savvy sometimes confuse Wreck-it-Ralph as a Pixar film. I dunno if we want the line to be this blurry, though. It's not like DisneyToon Studios, a branch of Disney that started with Disney. Pixar is owned by Disney, but Pixar isn't Disney, just like Lucas Arts isn't Disney, either.

I would be okay with Pixar sticking to doing only 3D, and Disney just doing traditional 2D only if they really, really decided to make their studios one in the same. That way, Diz wouldn't be so concerned with making that 3D film dollar, because their Pixar studio would handle it from there. However, would forcing Pixar to be a division of Disney hurt Pixar in the long run? That's something to consider, and honestly I'm not sure yet. I still need to see what Disney themselves are capable with in their 3D films, as most of them have been either hit or miss (or by the numbers and predictable).

If nothing else, if Disney went back to and stuck to 2D starting now, Pixar stayed 3D and they both were still separate studios like they are now, there might be less confusion as to who really gets the credit for what. Then again, I doubt people are really all that concerned about what's a part of the Disney canon.