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  #1    
Old January 18th, 2013, 08:54 AM
abnegation's Avatar
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When reading this, please try and throw opinions on other people and their games aside for a moment. It'll really help objectivity.

Over the course of a few years, the game development section has taken a serious decline in a sense of community. There was a time where people were a lot more supporting of others. What we see now is a complete sense of detachedness.

This is a section primarily comprised of Pokémon fan games, so when I say that, why should anybody be anything but positive to one another? It's a little silly, there used to be a sense of community and we'd all be a little more supportive. Now the community seems to be completely partitioned, and no longer are games the main view, but the "ego" behind them. From a personal point of view, I would love to go back in time and make my contribution to what I've worked on 100% anonymous, have another account post the game, update it, and that's it. There's too much focus on assumed personality, and not enough focus on supporting fan made projects.

Again, this is essentially fan art, aside from original games, the threads posted here are just edited replications of a franchise, varying in degree of customised content. In no way is that a negative thing, but a lot of people take this little corner of the game development world, far, far too seriously. 

Plain and simple; people are competing instead of supporting one another. What is that? While competition between games can really drive the teams to make theirs better, it just seems as if people are looking to make "the best" game, or the "most original" game, and too often do I see the words "compared to". What you should be going for is your own thing, try make games that are fun, in your own image. Not trying to compare to the other games out there, not trying to nitpick every negative thing you can see about a "popular" fan game, simply because it has a big following. There's some fan games out there which I love, and are completely unknown, but they get great support from the people who follow it. It seems as if the more popular a game gets, the more people out there want to target it negatively.

This community isn't about who's right, who "leads" what game, who's a dick, and who's a freeloader, it's not about "who" at all. It should be about working together to support one another, helping the fan games towards completion with positivity. Now, criticism is really important, however you should learn how to give it before you do so. Before giving some, think about it as if this is your game, think about how you would like someone to give you critique, and think about how your tone and attitude towards a person may affect how the community works. When you comment on a game, the community sees it. You can be helpful, but it won't be noticed if your post isn't supportive at the same time, talk about how someone can improve their updates, rather than simply pointing out what is wrong. Also add what you do like about it so that they don't go ahead and change the entire thing, only for it to be criticised negatively again and again. 

Forget about holding grudges against people, it's really immature to start judging games, the team, and the person and relaying a negative attitude against them. I personally had an awful attitude and seen how it affected people negatively, so I worked on it and realised how much better it is to be approachable.

I know this won't change the community, I never intended it to, but it would be a great thing to see people around the forum being a lot more supportive and in general, a lot less doom and gloom regarding Pokémon fan games. Don't be mean if you don't like something, it's not helpful.

I say this as a member, rather than a developer or even a staff member here.  Contrary to popular belief, titles aren't important to me, and I think that's the way this community should work. We'd probably have more demos and finished games too, if people didn't throw down so much negativity. Come together a bit more, forget about the who's who and the "best" this and the "best" that. Be positive, or go away,  avoid being negative or spiteful, ain't nobody got time for that.

Working together a bit more, making some friends online, and releasing fun games, that's what this section should be about.

Sorry that this one is closed, but I can already see this thread exploding into an argument. Point is, it'd be great to see some more positivity in the section, and if you have anything to contribute towards that remember you can contact Cilerba, or feel free to throw your responses at me. Hope you guys don't take this up as a slight against any of you, keep up the good work on your games and have a great day :]
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the internet is full of people who refuse to be nice to others
because they feel that this makes them superior
that's lame

Last edited by abnegation; January 18th, 2013 at 10:21 AM.
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  #2    
Old January 19th, 2013, 11:42 AM
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Nice topic. First, people really needs to be more supportive, but, like you said, competition is a good thing.

But is possible to be mutually supportive and competitive, and this can be very positive. Several companies try to make employees/sectors compete among themselves, for a bigger gain. A healthy competition only make us better.

The fault is the ones that makes destructive criticism, but the developers, also, needs to have the capacity to filter the feedback and try to extract the best of it to improve themselves.

I generally try to make content (generally scripts) that anyone can use and even try do adapt some of my scripts to other peoples use. I suggest to more people do this, a good way to make the community grows.
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Old January 19th, 2013, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FL . View Post
Nice topic. First, people really needs to be more supportive, but, like you said, competition is a good thing.

But is possible to be mutually supportive and competitive, and this can be very positive. Several companies try to make employees/sectors compete among themselves, for a bigger gain. A healthy competition only make us better.

The fault is the ones that makes destructive criticism, but the developers, also, needs to have the capacity to filter the feedback and try to extract the best of it to improve themselves.

I generally try to make content (generally scripts) that anyone can use and even try do adapt some of my scripts to other peoples use. I suggest to more people do this, a good way to make the community grows.
I would've love to help newbies too. But i can't script :\

About the topic. I also noted that people only post on those projects who are like already improved. I know scripters get to show their work in front of more people. But it doesn't mean Beginner/A little un supported projects can't get famouse too maybe with a lil bit of help they can skyrocket too! I wish i could script on ruby. So i could help all the newbies .
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Old January 19th, 2013, 12:55 PM
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When I first read this after you posted, I thought "what is this guy talking about?"

I simply think people got bored. I remember when I first joined Pokecommunity in 2007, there would be a new fan game added on the board every week. Now, this isn't really the case. The Showcase section barely changes meanwhile the Beginner's Showcase is boring in that most of the ideas never work and never become big. Personally, I think we need more tools to help aid in game development. This is why the ROM Hacking section on Pokecommunity is still much bigger than the game development one.

Now on your talk about tone. This is the internet. The tone is not something you can tell. They could always be sarcastic or neutral. When someone says they dislike something, they are not always being mean. It is still criticism nonetheless and although it could be short, every little bit should be helpful. Your audience is the one who will be playing your game and if they are not happy then you would be the only one who downloads it.

It seems as if you're trying to target specific people. If you are, then go tell these people personally.
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Old January 19th, 2013, 01:08 PM
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It could be me pulling a blind eye on things; but I don't really see people competing against each other when it comes to how good a game is.

Only small comments like:
''How is your tiles so better than mine?''
''Because I can make tiles, and you can't.''

Sounds a bit harsh, but is true.

Also, it's not popular games getting negative comments on what it is.
It's more, fans brag that this game has , this that and those, and it's so uber cool.
When really, it's not as good as said or explained by OP.

But again, I fail to see these 'mean' and 'dick' comments.
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Old January 19th, 2013, 01:25 PM
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Alright, I like this topic, and I have some words to put out there about it. So if you have the time, please read my post! :D

Since I signed up here in 2007, ego, popularity, and support/criticism has always been a part of this section. Always. There are always the people who only criticize, people who only say nice things, people who jump on bandwagons (those that will support something even if it's being criticized) those that will always hate a game based on the creator, and those who support and criticize pretty well (those are the best ones) You can go back, and you will find all these members that have posted on bigger games.

These people are what make up the "community" of game dev.
-The criticizers, who may not sugarcoat their words, but get their point across (and usually intend to help the creator, weather the creator sees that or not)

-The supporters, who support a game because they like the creator, or because they really like the way the game works.

Those are the two most prominent members. The problem arises when there are too many supporters, they give the creator a false sense of pride for their creation. Yes, it's neat, but it's not perfect, it never will be. So when a Criticizer comes in, it's considered negative feeback and hate. This is not the case. When you are so use to positive feedback, you will not recognize this as criticism. Some people feel they are being personally attacked, which in 98% of the time, they are not being attacked, but just trying to be given advice or help. (that 98% is a real statistic, statistics don't lie)

As far as competition goes? We need competition. Like seriously, why would that be a bad thing? FL posted a link to something about competition that I'm sure will back up this point. Without competition, or jealousy, we would have games with cliche plots, default graphics, and god awful maps. The need to be better than another game is what drives people to try harder on theirs, make cooler features, use better graphics. When I made a game I thought "I bet I can make a game, and it will be better than this one, or as cool as that one, or just as fun as that." It shouldn't be the main force behind a game at all, but it should still be there. Without it, you wouldn't try. The game would be basic as hell. Of course you should be attempting to make your own thing, but the competition will help you try and make a more original or better experience for the players.
Quote:
Not trying to compare to the other games out there, not trying to nitpick every negative thing you can see about a "popular" fan game, simply because it has a big following.
Do this, always do this. Bring the popular game back down to earth. As I stated earlier, to much support can be bad. You can't have an ego thinking your game is the best because it never gets any criticism. Criticize it (with honest criticism) There's always something that can be improved.
Quote:
You can be helpful, but it won't be noticed if your post isn't supportive at the same time, talk about how someone can improve their updates, rather than simply pointing out what is wrong.
A post doesn't have to be supportive, it doesn't need to be sugarcoated. If the creator can't handle a rude, blunt post, then maybe they shouldn't be posting their game on the internet. There are people out there who will criticize without trying to be nice about it. It's a fact of life, and you all will need to accept that. It would be nice if people were more respectful with their crit, but it's just not how the world works. People will be dicks, you just gotta brush that brash nature off and ignore it, but take in the criticism. Impressing the dicks that criticize is a great feeling too, try and impress the naysayers.

Quote:
Don't be mean if you don't like something, it's not helpful.
To the people who don't get offended that easily, it's very helpful. A supportive criticism will not be thought to be to seriously. If someone is a dick about it, it will sit with you much more heavily, and you will want to fix the problem a lot more. I mean, name calling isn't necessary, but I think sugarcoating criticism isn't helpful.

Quote:
We'd probably have more demos and finished games too, if people didn't throw down so much negativity.
We'd have a bunch of bad quality games, that's for sure. The dicks and criticism weed out the pansies who can't handle it, and the ones who do, generally produce quality work. (IMO)

I don't think anything in the last 6 years has changed, other than activity. Not sure why the activity has dropped, but it's not because of the attitude of the community, I promise you that. There's always a few dicks in the group, it just cycles through different people. There are also many friendly supporters. You take the good with the bad when you enter this community, and if you don't like the bad, than get out, this won't be the place for you. You have to have thick skin if you want to make a game, and you have to be able to accept blunt criticism.

So in conclusion:
There needs to be some competition in order to make a good quality game.
You have to be able to handle blunt criticism, don't just close a thread or quit a game when some arises. To better your game, you must listen to all criticism.
And, the community hasn't really changed in the last 6 years, peoples perception has just changed. Trust me, we has the same kind of members back in the day, they just had different names ;)

I believe that's all I have to say, I would love to see what you guy's think. I feel like I'm forgetting some stuff, I can add it in on another post I guess, idk.
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Old January 19th, 2013, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaSpirit
I simply think people got bored. I remember when I first joined Pokecommunity in 2007, there would be a new fan game added on the board every week. Now, this isn't really the case. The Showcase section barely changes meanwhile the Beginner's Showcase is boring in that most of the ideas never work and never become big. Personally, I think we need more tools to help aid in game development. This is why the ROM Hacking section on Pokecommunity is still much bigger than the game development one.
I agree with this completely. My desirable vision of a "community" is one where improvement is the norm and people encourage and help others to get better and people actually want to aspire to improve and revamp their games. When I first found and joined this forum as AceDragonite I was literally mesmerized by all the fantastic games that existed [Tanzanite, Malachite, Scarlet, I can go on] and the comrardery that existed between developers, helping each other while also aspiring to be the best. Unfortunately, I just don't see that any more, it seems like people are making games just for the sake of making a game instead of trying to make something worthwhile out of their ideas and love for the franchise. Last year, the board was literally dominated by Phoenix Rising and Garnet and it seemed like an unspoken rule that there was no rivalry, which showed in the replies and thread views and while those games certainly deserve recognition and praise for the amount of work that's been done to improve them [just compare 2010 Garnet or Forever Lost screens with the current], that's just ridiculous. I feel like stuff like that needs to change and there needs to be more encouragement for improvement so that there's a lot of "good games" on here rather than just a few, like offering kind but legitimate critiques of games that could use a lot of improvement. People should strive for excellence, not mediocrity and the users should transmute the culture of this board to reflect that.
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Old January 19th, 2013, 01:30 PM
Nintendork15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomic Reactor View Post
Alright, I like this topic, and I have some words to put out there about it. So if you have the time, please read my post! :D

Since I signed up here in 2007, ego, popularity, and support/criticism has always been a part of this section. Always. There are always the people who only criticize, people who only say nice things, people who jump on bandwagons (those that will support something even if it's being criticized) those that will always hate a game based on the creator, and those who support and criticize pretty well (those are the best ones) You can go back, and you will find all these members that have posted on bigger games.

These people are what make up the "community" of game dev.
-The criticizers, who may not sugarcoat their words, but get their point across (and usually intend to help the creator, weather the creator sees that or not)

-The supporters, who support a game because they like the creator, or because they really like the way the game works.

Those are the two most prominent members. The problem arises when there are too many supporters, they give the creator a false sense of pride for their creation. Yes, it's neat, but it's not perfect, it never will be. So when a Criticizer comes in, it's considered negative feeback and hate. This is not the case. When you are so use to positive feedback, you will not recognize this as criticism. Some people feel they are being personally attacked, which in 98% of the time, they are not being attacked, but just trying to be given advice or help. (that 98% is a real statistic, statistics don't lie)

As far as competition goes? We need competition. Like seriously, why would that be a bad thing? FL posted a link to something about competition that I'm sure will back up this point. Without competition, or jealousy, we would have games with cliche plots, default graphics, and god awful maps. The need to be better than another game is what drives people to try harder on theirs, make cooler features, use better graphics. When I made a game I thought "I bet I can make a game, and it will be better than this one, or as cool as that one, or just as fun as that." It shouldn't be the main force behind a game at all, but it should still be there. Without it, you wouldn't try. The game would be basic as hell. Of course you should be attempting to make your own thing, but the competition will help you try and make a more original or better experience for the players.
Do this, always do this. Bring the popular game back down to earth. As I stated earlier, to much support can be bad. You can't have an ego thinking your game is the best because it never gets any criticism. Criticize it (with honest criticism) There's always something that can be improved.
A post doesn't have to be supportive, it doesn't need to be sugarcoated. If the creator can't handle a rude, blunt post, then maybe they shouldn't be posting their game on the internet. There are people out there who will criticize without trying to be nice about it. It's a fact of life, and you all will need to accept that. It would be nice if people were more respectful with their crit, but it's just not how the world works. People will be dicks, you just gotta brush that brash nature off and ignore it, but take in the criticism. Impressing the dicks that criticize is a great feeling too, try and impress the naysayers.

To the people who don't get offended that easily, it's very helpful. A supportive criticism will not be thought to be to seriously. If someone is a dick about it, it will sit with you much more heavily, and you will want to fix the problem a lot more. I mean, name calling isn't necessary, but I think sugarcoating criticism isn't helpful.

We'd have a bunch of bad quality games, that's for sure. The dicks and criticism weed out the pansies who can't handle it, and the ones who do, generally produce quality work. (IMO)

I don't think anything in the last 6 years has changed, other than activity. Not sure why the activity has dropped, but it's not because of the attitude of the community, I promise you that. There's always a few dicks in the group, it just cycles through different people. There are also many friendly supporters. You take the good with the bad when you enter this community, and if you don't like the bad, than get out, this won't be the place for you. You have to have thick skin if you want to make a game, and you have to be able to accept blunt criticism.

So in conclusion:
There needs to be some competition in order to make a good quality game.
You have to be able to handle blunt criticism, don't just close a thread or quit a game when some arises. To better your game, you must listen to all criticism.
And, the community hasn't really changed in the last 6 years, peoples perception has just changed. Trust me, we has the same kind of members back in the day, they just had different names

I believe that's all I have to say, I would love to see what you guy's think. I feel like I'm forgetting some stuff, I can add it in on another post I guess, idk.
^ this.
I agree with it completely.

A lot of you seem to being comparing now from back in 2007.
Some people need to remember how much the internet has changed in the last 5 years, with Trolls, Meme's and Internet Humour. The way 'positive' attitude was is different to what many modern internet browsers think it is today, we're bound to get a 'bad' comment with the commenter may think is 'funny' and 'positive'.
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Old January 19th, 2013, 02:11 PM
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I think much of this issue is a lack of understanding about what exactly constructive criticism entails. If someone posts in your thread comes in and posts that everything is perfect and nothing needs to change, they are being destructive to the project, there are always improvements that can be made to anything and we shouldn't hold back to be "nice". If we were to limit ourselves to wholly positive comments we would essentially be telling people that there is no need to be flexible, that they can do no wrong. The tree that survives the storm the longest is the one that can best bend with the wind.

I'm not saying we have to go around with the purpose of only spreading negativity, but honest comments that bring up issues are orders more useful than an empty bit of phrase. "Great game, can't wait to play!" is essentially an empty and useless comment, while something along the lines of "Looking good so far, but I think the sprites are a little too low in screenshot 3," actually brings up an issue that others may have noticed, but would have gone unchanged otherwise.

While I have seen the community go through many changes - likely more than most who still visit, as I've been here for over seven years - I don't see the sense of community declining in any appreciable amount. With there being fewer "big" projects, there is a lot less for people to comment on, so people either focus their attentions on trying to improve projects with criticism or with positive reinforcement - the Supporters and Criticizers mentioned by Atomic Reactor above. The only reason this division seems to be more sharp than in years past is that there are less people entering the community, so there haven't been any major shakeups for quite some time. This isn't to say that more members would change anything in a good way, back in 2007/2008 we had a huge influx of new developers, most of which settled on making games that were incredibly homogeneous, also creating a sort of static community.

I think the issue with ego is that many have difficulties being objective about their own project. It's understandable that a person would have an emotional connection with a game they developed, but that connection does not exist for people commenting on the project. I honestly don't give a crap if someone spent eight weeks or eight minutes working on something, if I see something that could be improved it deserves criticism. Everyone should be able to feel proud of something that they made, but there shouldn't be any hurt feelings or anger when others find it less than perfect, that's life.

Now, I'm going to do a quick sample critique of this random map I found.



Honestly, it's pretty awful. You've almost copied Pallet town whole cloth, making for a pretty bland map. It isn't helped that you've chosen to use RSE tiles in a map primarily using FRLG tiles, and the clash is pretty extreme, with that tree in the center standing out particularly badly. In addition, the path you've included doesn't make much sense, surely there would be more foot traphic nearer to the lab than the houses on the left? You also need to expand the map to include a "border" of several trees on every edge so the player character doesn't walk off into the abyss or some such.

While all the comments I made were pretty negative, they all pointed out flaws in this sap's map that anyone would notice immediately. Some might argue that there should be a positive comment slipped somewhere in there, but that's not my style - it's a pretty terrible map and I feel that complimenting something in it would muddle the intention of the critique - which is that things need to change.

Feel free to respond/curse with blackest sorcery.
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  #10    
Old January 19th, 2013, 02:55 PM
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I don't see our community as extremely competitive or anything like that. To me it's just pretty much dead, I don't see many posts at all being made on any game and when there are some they are mostly from random people saying the same old stuff, complimenting the game or asking for a release date.

For me you're just taking something that is a personal concern as if it was something that happens on the entire community (seeing what happened on your game's thread on the last weeks). Man, learn something, criticism is mostly a really good thing. Together with competivity is what most helps developpers improving their games. If it's constructive, nice, you're lucky. If it's bad, well, try to take the good things out of it (they can be harsh but many times tell the truth) and ignore the bashing etc.

Remember, if nothing good can be extracted from the criticism, just ignore it or try to laugh at it(seriously). Don't get emotional over anything people say to you on the internet.
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Old January 19th, 2013, 03:04 PM
Nintendork15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuoaman View Post
I think much of this issue is a lack of understanding about what exactly constructive criticism entails. If someone posts in your thread comes in and posts that everything is perfect and nothing needs to change, they are being destructive to the project, there are always improvements that can be made to anything and we shouldn't hold back to be "nice". If we were to limit ourselves to wholly positive comments we would essentially be telling people that there is no need to be flexible, that they can do no wrong. The tree that survives the storm the longest is the one that can best bend with the wind.

I'm not saying we have to go around with the purpose of only spreading negativity, but honest comments that bring up issues are orders more useful than an empty bit of phrase. "Great game, can't wait to play!" is essentially an empty and useless comment, while something along the lines of "Looking good so far, but I think the sprites are a little too low in screenshot 3," actually brings up an issue that others may have noticed, but would have gone unchanged otherwise.

While I have seen the community go through many changes - likely more than most who still visit, as I've been here for over seven years - I don't see the sense of community declining in any appreciable amount. With there being fewer "big" projects, there is a lot less for people to comment on, so people either focus their attentions on trying to improve projects with criticism or with positive reinforcement - the Supporters and Criticizers mentioned by Atomic Reactor above. The only reason this division seems to be more sharp than in years past is that there are less people entering the community, so there haven't been any major shakeups for quite some time. This isn't to say that more members would change anything in a good way, back in 2007/2008 we had a huge influx of new developers, most of which settled on making games that were incredibly homogeneous, also creating a sort of static community.

I think the issue with ego is that many have difficulties being objective about their own project. It's understandable that a person would have an emotional connection with a game they developed, but that connection does not exist for people commenting on the project. I honestly don't give a crap if someone spent eight weeks or eight minutes working on something, if I see something that could be improved it deserves criticism. Everyone should be able to feel proud of something that they made, but there shouldn't be any hurt feelings or anger when others find it less than perfect, that's life.

Now, I'm going to do a quick sample critique of this random map I found.



Honestly, it's pretty awful. You've almost copied Pallet town whole cloth, making for a pretty bland map. It isn't helped that you've chosen to use RSE tiles in a map primarily using FRLG tiles, and the clash is pretty extreme, with that tree in the center standing out particularly badly. In addition, the path you've included doesn't make much sense, surely there would be more foot traphic nearer to the lab than the houses on the left? You also need to expand the map to include a "border" of several trees on every edge so the player character doesn't walk off into the abyss or some such.

While all the comments I made were pretty negative, they all pointed out flaws in this sap's map that anyone would notice immediately. Some might argue that there should be a positive comment slipped somewhere in there, but that's not my style - it's a pretty terrible map and I feel that complimenting something in it would muddle the intention of the critique - which is that things need to change.

Feel free to respond/curse with blackest sorcery.
Your criticism is good, because you make it harsh and able to stick the poster due to being honest and harsh, without sugarcoating it.

But, it's this comment:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuoaman View Post
You can tell that the main character is a special snowflake because you get a special Eevee that no one else has. He's also special because buildings expand when he enters them - and he's the only one with the eyesight to read the region map which contains one large building and mountain, rubbing shoulders of course.
In my game; there was nothing special about the Eevee, I didn't mention it was the only Eevee in the game.
You questioned natural RPG logic with the building thing, No Video Game Company would actually make a building the size it actually is on the outside as it was on the inside, in a 2D RPG. To save Space.
and I did say the map was a WIP.

You give good criticism at times, but you really need to think it through, and not do another THAT comment.
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Old January 19th, 2013, 03:20 PM
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Can you link to the post in question? I have a terrible memory and I can't remember when I made it, or the context it was made in.
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Old January 19th, 2013, 03:27 PM
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Can you link to the post in question? I have a terrible memory and I can't remember when I made it, or the context it was made in.
I've moved this disscussion to VM's.
Rather than filling the thread, and going off topic.
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Old January 19th, 2013, 05:39 PM
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A lot of comments are being directed at a personal level (ie. something regarding the person rather than the topic) try keep that stuff to VM's, and keep this topic about the section, and what you like and dislike about it, what you agree with and what you don't agree with. Remember what I said is a personal view, please see my main point as being; it'd be good if we worked more as a community and I'd like to see how we could do that.

I wanted to throw that in when I opened the topic, but someone beat me to the punch in doing so. Cheers guys :)
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Old January 19th, 2013, 05:50 PM
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Back when I first joined, the Game Development community was filled with a bunch of people, even newbies, posting there games and ideas in hopes of them becoming big like hacks in the hacking community.

Now, I'v noticed that it's more about who's game has the best scripts or who's game has the coolest graphics rather than the quality. Which imo, started driving away most people because they simply thought their games could never look as good, never be as innovative, and basically never thought their games could be great.

I don't think people should start becoming Care Bears and writing nice posts about all the fangames out there, because criticism is what makes a game developer strive. You need some "Your game looks like ass" and "Fix this ****, it's like Sonic 06 but with more errors" every once in a while to know that people are actually playing your game and it can help you achieve goals to make the game better. I'm not saying users should overdue it though because I don't want to be the cause of suicides lol

I like that this topic was started and hopefully, the Game Developing Community becomes as great as it was back when I first joined, and even better than that.
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Old January 19th, 2013, 05:54 PM
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Which imo, started driving away most people because they simply thought their games could never look as good, never be as innovative, and basically never thought their games could be great.
This is actually a really good point, and I never thought about that. Maybe the higher grade games that are being produced, lower the rates of not such good quality ones, cause the creators don't think they can measure up? Idk, food for thought, definitely an interesting point there.
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Old January 19th, 2013, 06:10 PM
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That's where encouragement can work, and too much competition can be a negative thing. I'm saying "too much", too many times have I seen people ignore it when I'm pointing out that criticism and competition are good in the right taste and environment, and need to be something that doesn't get negative, as it can be disheartening to newer and more shy developers.
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Old January 19th, 2013, 06:26 PM
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It can be discouraging, but as I said, it will really weed out the people who have the commitment and heart to actually make a game. No it's not always fun to get criticisim, rude criticism on top of that, but I think it really helps and makes a person grow.
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Old January 19th, 2013, 06:36 PM
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I don't think it should be our responsibility to help people grow or be more commited. To me, this is a past-time and not a method to improve my moral standing, so I'd be more keen on seeing things be a little less serious in general, and a bit more about the fun factor. I'd rather focus on those things rather than trying to get results out of people making Pokemon fan games.
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Old January 19th, 2013, 06:41 PM
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Well no, it shouldn't be taken as serious as it is, I agree with you there. Not everyone realizes it though. So they will act the way they act because they don't really put that much thought into it. I'm basically just trying to say, you can't change the way the community acts, instead you must accept it, and look at the positives you gain from dealing with the negative comments and people.

Though this post is nice food for thought, but it's not going to change the way the community acts, I can guarantee that lol.
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Old January 19th, 2013, 06:41 PM
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I think you're misunderstanding the sentiment - I really don't care if anyone here is a good person in any sense of the word. I offer criticism to help people become better game developers, and as I stated in my last post constant praise can cause people to stagnate.
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Old January 19th, 2013, 08:05 PM
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I may be mistaken, as I don't usually step into the Showcase or Beginner's thing much at all, but perhaps the reason for the lack of big projects is that people aren't posting them? I know I haven't posted anything about my game, and have no intention of doing so until such a point where I have a measurable amount of progress and either have a demo release imminent or have a requirement for assistance. With all the fancy new things that are always coming out, people always want to upgrade their stuff to the latest model and they inevitably spend more time playing catch up than advancing things themselves. As a result, they never end up with something that they feel comfortable posting about or that they feel deserves posting.

Oh, and there's also that fear of never finishing.Think about how few actually complete games we have. I can only name two off the top of my head. I have half a dozen more with demos out there. Then countless others that post about things, but no actual content is ever released. No one wants to be known as that guy who hyped everyone up for this great game but couldn't deliver and gave up.

I know all too well how that feels. I've been mucking about in RMXP for three years now. The furthest I've ever got in developing was the first gym of my first game. There have been many iterations since, never getting anywhere further. I realised that my naive, youthful ideas were really pretty bad, and the idyllic game I wanted simply wasn't feasible. That, and I didn't really have a whole picture. It was like the dots of a dot-to-dot, but nothing to join them. That is why I went out and wrote a script for my current project. A whole backstory. Characters' motivations, history, goals. The only limiting factor at any point now is graphics, which I can certainly do but takes a lot longer than typing out thousands of words in Notepad. It will only be once I'm done that I intend on making it pretty (well, I'm making it pretty to an extent now, but like everyday pretty as opposed to Hollywood pretty for later). I often spend weeks not doing anything, then weeks working my ass off, and I have no idea how long it'll take to complete, but I'll get there. Eventually. This is the attitude that everyone should have.
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Old January 20th, 2013, 12:22 AM
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So would you say the seeing other prominent games makes you want to excel at the game you're working on? It sounds like that to me.

If that is the case, this is a prime example of competition being the driving force behind a game being improved upon solely because of the other games being out there. The creator wants to better themselves because they want to compete with the other games being produced.
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Old January 20th, 2013, 01:51 AM
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[...]so I'd be more keen on seeing things be a little less serious in general, and a bit more about the fun factor. I'd rather focus on those things rather than trying to get results out of people making Pokemon fan games.
I disagree here. While making games can be fun, I think the focus should be on completing them. Don't you hate it when you play a wonderful game and realize you can't go further because no one developed it further, and not only yet but never because he/she quitted? You would miss the part you can't play ever. If this game would have never been released, you wouldn't miss anything. It's a bit like love. But personally, I would pass the joy for not having to miss it. The game I mean.
The second thing is, this is "Game Development" and not "Game Let's start one and never finish it". If one just wants to mess around a little bit / have fun with others, there is the RPG-Section for that.
I may sound radical to you, but these are my thoughts.
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Old January 20th, 2013, 04:42 AM
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I would've love to help newbies too. But i can't script :\

About the topic. I also noted that people only post on those projects who are like already improved. I know scripters get to show their work in front of more people. But it doesn't mean Beginner/A little un supported projects can't get famouse too maybe with a lil bit of help they can skyrocket too! I wish i could script on ruby. So i could help all the newbies .
But you have other talents and knowledge, haven't? Script is only a example. There several ways to help the community. Some examples: Making sprites, guides, and even finding errors, opinions and suggestions.

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Originally Posted by Yuoaman View Post
I think you're misunderstanding the sentiment - I really don't care if anyone here is a good person in any sense of the word. I offer criticism to help people become better game developers, and as I stated in my last post constant praise can cause people to stagnate.
Something too sincere may sounds discouraging for the authors, even if you have good intentions. The fanworks, specially the games, are delicate things for the authors. When I criticize some project/game to the developers, before I talk about things that need improvement I try to highlight good points too (sometimes this requires a good effort).

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Originally Posted by Ayutac View Post
I disagree here. While making games can be fun, I think the focus should be on completing them. Don't you hate it when you play a wonderful game and realize you can't go further because no one developed it further, and not only yet but never because he/she quitted? You would miss the part you can't play ever. If this game would have never been released, you wouldn't miss anything. It's a bit like love. But personally, I would pass the joy for not having to miss it. The game I mean.
The second thing is, this is "Game Development" and not "Game Let's start one and never finish it". If one just wants to mess around a little bit / have fun with others, there is the RPG-Section for that.
I may sound radical to you, but these are my thoughts.
Good point. If you don't finish your game or take some years to do, this can disappoints the people that follow the project.
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