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Pokémon Gaming Central For topics that aren't necessarily restricted to one game, Pokémon Gaming Central ranges from comparing and contrasting the differences in the gaming generations to discussing the gaming franchise as a whole.


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  #1    
Old December 22nd, 2012, 10:12 AM
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I recently realized that there is a lot of confusion in the order of the mainstream game timeline, so I thought that with all the input of PC we could finally figure out the timeline! If you have anything to add then please post!

Current Timeline:

Red/Blue/Yellow/+FireRed/LeafGreen+Ruby/Sapphire

Unknown amount of time

Emerald

Gold/Silver/Crystal

Diamond/Pearl/Platinum

Unknown amount of time

HeartGold/SoulSilver

Unknown amount of time

Black/White

2 Years

Black 2/White 2

Info Needed:
Do HGSS and GSC occur at the same time?
Time in-between RBY, RS and Emerald
Time in-between DPPl and HGSS
Time in-between HGSS and BW
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  #2    
Old December 22nd, 2012, 11:01 AM
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I read somewhere that it was supposed to be about a year between each set of games, but that was just complete conjecture and not really based in any hard details at all :T
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  #3    
Old December 23rd, 2012, 10:57 AM
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Well, I know for one thing that it's
RBY/FRLG > 3 years > GSC/HGSS
RSE is in a whole different region. There's no way to specify any time frame between the events of RSE and the events of RBY/GSC and remakes.
B/W > 2 years > BW2
Since all the Gym Leaders from all regions appear here, I'd say this occurs at least 1 year after GSC + remakes. That would mean that RSE occur around the same time as GSC + remakes, if not a little later, but no more than a year.
DPPt cannot occur at the same time as GSC + remakes, because Jasmine makes her appearance in Sunyshore and in contests. Therefore, it is possible that it takes place around the same time as RSE, or prior to GSC + remakes.
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Old January 19th, 2013, 06:40 PM
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I only know the general consensus is that Gen I and III occur at roughly the same time and that Gen II and IV take place 3 years after. As for Gen V, well I believe it might be set 4 years after Gen IV based on the fact that D/P came out in 2006 in Japan (2007 U.S.) and B/W came out in 2010 in Japan (2011 U.S.). Much like how R/B/Y and G/S/C are three years apart because Red & Blue(Green) came out in 1996 in Japan and Gold and Silver came out in 1999 in Japan.
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Old January 25th, 2013, 04:05 AM
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Just moved this over to Pokémon Gaming Central, it's relates to the games so it's better suited here.

Moved.
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  #6    
Old January 25th, 2013, 08:10 AM
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I think the Bulbapedia timeline is pretty accurate.

FRLG and RSE have to occur at the same time because you can freely trade between them, also Blue mentions that you can't catch all Pokémon in Kanto + Sevii Islands, which means Hoenn already exists and the adventure in Hoenn is already taking place.

DPP has to be after 1st and 3rd gen because of all the new evolutions that were discovered. It's also very close in timeline to HGSS, because of the features in HGSS where you can catch Sinnoh Pokémon with the radio or in the Safari Zone.

What happened in Hoenn between these three years is up to speculation, though. Steven calls himself "the Champion of the Hoenn region", but we know that Brendan/May beat him in RS to become Champion themselves. It's possible something happened that they went wandering around like Hilbert/Hilda and left the Champion position to Steven. And the fact all of the Weather Trio is catchable in HGSS makes me think Emerald is the true canon for 3rd gen, because at the end of the story Brendan/May still didn't catch all the legendaries (you can only catch them post-E4), whereas in RS it's presumed you caught Groudon/Kyogre.

DPP and HGSS take place at roughly the same time, despite Jasmine's appearance in both games. The key is the red Gyarados. In DPP, the red Gyarados already exists, which means Team Rocket's plan of forcing evolution is already underway, and such a thing obviously wouldn't go unnoticed.

The Unova games take place many years after 4th gen.
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  #7    
Old January 25th, 2013, 12:48 PM
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For the most part you can make good guesses but I'm loving the loose assumptions of RSE's place in the timeline.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerberus87 View Post
FRLG and RSE have to occur at the same time because you can freely trade between them
Trading is next to no proof of a gen happening at the same time as another. You can also freely trade and battle between Black/White and Black 2/White 2, despite the latter games taking place two years later. Trading is just more of a way to retcon things and is more a game mechanic than a plot point.

Something else to note about is how Magma and Aqua had no mention in Black/White(despite their actions being far more noteworthy than Rocket) , yet they appeared in Black 2/White 2(as former members of course) and, imo, speak as if what they did wasn't that long ago. That shows that there is also a chance of the big events in RSE happening inbetween both sets of Gen 5 games. That could also explain Steven being champion in HGSS because neither us nor Wallace has probably beaten him yet. I'm sure we also aren't the only silent yet strong trainers around. There's a lot of ways to interpret what we do know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerberus87 View Post
also Blue mentions that you can't catch all Pokémon in Kanto + Sevii Islands, which means Hoenn already exists and the adventure in Hoenn is already taking place.
It's pretty obvious that there were more Pokemon that existed outside of those areas. It's not like Kanto was the only region and the others just continuously popped up out of nowhere(we only know of the number of Pokemon as the regions are brought out and because I'm sure they don't have every Pokemon/region planned out already).

With that said, Hoenn and (all) other regions more than likely existed with their Pokemon before we visit them in the games. That, however, does not mean the big events(what we have to go through playing the games) happen together. There is pretty much nothing solid that gives Gen III a specific spot is what I'm saying.

Other than that, the others seem to have a better way to judge where they are.
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  #8    
Old January 25th, 2013, 06:41 PM
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Im sorry but this is WRONG!

Here is how it goes.

Red/Blue/Yellow/FireRed/LeafGreen/Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald

A time period of 3 years

Gold/Silver/Crystal/HeartGold/SoulSilver/Diamond/Pearl/Platinum/

Unkown period of time

Black/White

A time period of 2 years

Black 2/White 2


Look on Bulbapedia.
Want more proof?
In Red/Blue/Yellow you were a eleven year old boy name red.Red was also eleven in FireRed/LeafGreen.You beat team rocket and after 3 years,you play as a boy/Girl named Ethan/Lyra in Johto.This happened in Gold/Silver/Crystal/HeartGold/SoulSilver.Also I. Those games,you battled a 14 year old Red at the end of the game.

In Black and White,you were Hilda/Hilbert and she/he saved Unova and 2 years later in Black 2/White 2,you save Unova again as Nate/Rosa.

Why does Diamond/Pearl/Platinum and HeartGold/SoulSilver/Gold/Silver/Crystal happen in the same time?Well HeartGold/SoulSilver were release in the same Generation,Generation 4,so is they are in the same Generation,that happen at the same time.

Why does Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald and Red/Blue/Yellow/FireRed/LeafGreen happen at the same time?FireRed/LeafGreen and Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald were in the same generation and FireRed/LeafGreen are remakes of Red/Blue/Yellow.

Why is Black 2/White 2 2 years after Black/White?Gamefreak said it was 2 years after.
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  #9    
Old January 25th, 2013, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 27thColt View Post
Im sorry but this is WRONG!
Quote:
Originally Posted by 27thColt View Post
Why does Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald and Red/Blue/Yellow/FireRed/LeafGreen happen at the same time?FireRed/LeafGreen and Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald were in the same generation and FireRed/LeafGreen are remakes of Red/Blue/Yellow.
Them being in the same generation doesn't mean a thing. Do Black/White and Black 2/White 2 happen at the exact same time because they are in the same generation? No. By your logic, the latter should be in a separate generation because of time difference.

Before you go on a rampage stating something as WRONG!, please bring up a real argument yourself instead of just saying something along the line of 'this site says so so it's right'. Bulbapedia, while it has an abundance of knowledge, also lacks much solid proof to indicate a specific placement of RSE in the timeline. That part is just pure speculation at this point.

As I've mentioned before, what do you make of Plasma not making any mention of Magma and Aqua's actions in BW(despite what they were trying to do was a lot more notable than Team Rocket), while former Aqua/Magma members do appear in B2W2 to mention it? That shows that RSE could have taken place between BW and B2W2 as well. It can also be argued that Steven referring to himself as champion in HGSS could mean that neither us nor Wallace has beaten him for the spot yet.

Before it's brought up again, direct trading is also little proof because, once again, B2W2 breaks that mold by allowing direct trade and battle with their prequels, despite happening two years later. Trading is also more of a game mechanic than a plot point anyways.

On top of that, Gamefreak has already made a mention that the games come out as they come out, with no real pattern in mind while they make them, so Hoenn and Kanto(brought back) being in the same generation of games could be simply coincidental and/or just a retcon to make up for the fact that RSE couldn't connect with RBY/GSC.
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  #10    
Old January 25th, 2013, 08:02 PM
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I'mma tell y'all once and I ain't gonna tell ya again. I don't like these threads and if it gets as bad as the last one, I'm locking it with no warnings at all. So don't let it get to that point. Carry on.
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  #11    
Old January 25th, 2013, 08:14 PM
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I hope I wasn't seen as too hostile, just wondering how something like trading or 'Bulbapedia says so' is any kind of proof of where RSE fit.
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  #12    
Old January 25th, 2013, 08:19 PM
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No, I have no problems with this thread (yet anyway). It was just a general post to everyone. No one in specific.
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  #13    
Old January 25th, 2013, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C Payne View Post
Trading is next to no proof of a gen happening at the same time as another. You can also freely trade and battle between Black/White and Black 2/White 2, despite the latter games taking place two years later. Trading is just more of a way to retcon things and is more a game mechanic than a plot point.
The only reason you can freely trade between BW and B2W2 is because they're part of the same generation.

True, that could be said of FRLG and RSE as well, but considering the RSE Pokémon already exist during the time of FRLG, I'd say they're concomitant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by C Payne View Post
Something else to note about is how Magma and Aqua had no mention in Black/White(despite their actions being far more noteworthy than Rocket) , yet they appeared in Black 2/White 2(as former members of course) and, imo, speak as if what they did wasn't that long ago. That shows that there is also a chance of the big events in RSE happening inbetween both sets of Gen 5 games. That could also explain Steven being champion in HGSS because neither us nor Wallace has probably beaten him yet. I'm sure we also aren't the only silent yet strong trainers around. There's a lot of ways to interpret what we do know.
That's an interesting argument, but RSE can't be after DPP because of all the new moves and evolutions that are in DPP but aren't in RSE. Unless, of course, they remake RSE. I might be inclined to think RSE happens in-between FRLG and HGSS, but never between the two Unova games.

Quote:
Originally Posted by C Payne View Post
It's pretty obvious that there were more Pokemon that existed outside of those areas. It's not like Kanto was the only region and the others just continuously popped up out of nowhere(we only know of the number of Pokemon as the regions are brought out and because I'm sure they don't have every Pokemon/region planned out already).

With that said, Hoenn and (all) other regions more than likely existed with their Pokemon before we visit them in the games. That, however, does not mean the big events(what we have to go through playing the games) happen together. There is pretty much nothing solid that gives Gen III a specific spot is what I'm saying.

Other than that, the others seem to have a better way to judge where they are.
In GSC the new Johto Pokémon are referred to as "newly found", although FRLG screwed up the logic by introducing Johto Pokémon in the Sevii Islands.

If RSE happened during 5th gen, there would certainly be Pokémon not indigenous to Hoenn that were introduced later in the series, such as Sinnoh and Unova Pokémon. Again, a remake can fix that, but the fact FRLG, which is the very first game chronologically, can trade with RSE without the machine being labeled a "time machine" as it was in GSC, to me may not be conclusive proof, but it points in the direction of FRLG and RSE being simultaneous. If RSE was after FRLG, there would be explicit sayings that it happened after, much like with all Pokémon sequels to date.

Also there are the Orbs in HGSS which allow you to harness the power of the Weather Trio, it's pretty unlikely Mr. Pokémon would be in possession of such items allowing a trainer to summon those Pokémon before Team Magma/Aqua even could. Finally, the Jade Orb, to call Rayquaza, didn't even exist in RSE, it could have been discovered later on.

And remember that in Emerald, which is the true canon for Hoenn (as B2W2 demonstrates), the protagonist does NOT catch any of the Weather Trio during the storyline, making them available for Ethan/Lyra in HGSS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by C Payne View Post
As I've mentioned before, what do you make of Plasma not making any mention of Magma and Aqua's actions in BW(despite what they were trying to do was a lot more notable than Team Rocket), while former Aqua/Magma members do appear in B2W2 to mention it? That shows that RSE could have taken place between BW and B2W2 as well.
Very slim chance. I haven't played B2W2 but I've seen videos of those NPCs and IMO you're seeing only what you want to see here. BW also makes mention of the Go-Goggles. It was probably just a nod to Hoenn (like pretty much everything Hoenn-related in B2W2).

Sincerely though, I think Cyrus was infinitely more dangerous than Archie/Maxie, so his actions would leave a much bigger impression, enough to be known by Team Plasma. The Team Plasma Grunts also don't make mention of Team Rocket, whose actions are way more "down to earth" and, therefore, more likely to be believed and known by ordinary people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by C Payne View Post
Before you go on a rampage stating something as WRONG!, please bring up a real argument yourself instead of just saying something along the line of 'this site says so so it's right'. Bulbapedia, while it has an abundance of knowledge, also lacks much solid proof to indicate a specific placement of RSE in the timeline. That part is just pure speculation at this point.
Well I'm pretty sure Bulbapedia put it there for a reason. The reason is that, to date, the place most plausible to fit RSE is during the events of FRLG. There's way more proof of that than there is proof of Hoenn happening between BW and B2W2 (in fact, there's no proof of the latter).
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Last edited by Cerberus87; January 25th, 2013 at 08:41 PM.
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  #14    
Old January 25th, 2013, 09:24 PM
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There are two major inconsistencies with some of the games. First and foremost. R/S/E all happen at the same time. They aren't at different times, but each set R/S and E have different champions. This is a huge error with many view points on the time line. We cannot use any proof revolving around the Champions as there are two different universes in Generation 3 alone.

Second major issue, PWT. It is NOT canon in any way , shape or form. They bring Giovanni back as a Gym Leader for Kanto and Blue as Kanto's Champion. Blue is no longer the Champion and Giovanni is no longer a Gym leader.

Same is said for Red being Kanto Champion and Wallace and Steven both appearing in the Champion cycle as well.

As far as how they can be linked, as stated before in the other threads where this came up, both Bill and Lanette have made references to working with one another and Bill and Celio both said that they were working with Lanette to create a Link to Hoenn in FR/LG.

The original Email sent to Lanette said that Bill and Lanette created the storage unit together, to which Lanette upgraded her regions and later Kanto's due to link up. Bebe designed her version of the Storage unit well after Lanette and Bill so Sinnoh didn't have a storage unit for trainers until after the events of Gens 1 and 3.

The bit with Team Plasma in regards to other teams. This is all opinion based. Magma/Aqua aren't note worthy at all. They didn't have world domination goals like Rocket, Plasma, or Galactic had. They weren't trafficing people and Pokemon for their own personal goals go the level that Rocket, Plasma, or Galactic were. By comparison, Aqua and Magma were petty small time thugs with no real ambition. Look how easily they gave up after coming inches upon reaching their goal all because the legend they had was a little stronger than that thought they were.

They weren't worth mentioning in either B/W or B2W2 (which other than the grunts, they still weren't mentioned at all by the evil team that was emulating the other two)

Jasmin traveling to Sinnoh doesn't mean it has to be after the events of HG/SS. Cynthia is still Champion in HG/SS and she travels to Johto despite having the possibility of a challenger. They are all able to freely travel as they wish, they just end up closing the Gyms while they are gone. Not like we haven't seen that happen before in the main games.

Giovanni in R/B/Y/G/FR/LG.
Blue in G/S/C/HG/SS.
Lorelie in FR/LG (after her battle plot in the Sevii Islands you gain access to the upgraded E4 and Champion)
Burgh in B2W2
Clay in B/W
Jasmine in G/S/C/HG/SS
By a slight issue with Story not allowing you to go, Volkner in D/P/Pt...since he causes a black out in Sunny Shore.


Also to note...only PCs to be recognized as "Champions" to date are Red and Nate/Rosa. Simply put, Nate/Rosa can only enter the Champions tournament because they are the current Unova Champion having beaten Iris. None of the other PCs have had proof(in other games or in post game info) that they were champions, only that they beat the current champion and were inducted into the hall of fame. (Which no does not mean they are champions, only that the were acknowledged as having beaten the current champion. If the PCs turn down the status then the last Champion is still champion which is usually the basic case outside of Gen 2 post story quest and B2W2's NPC acknowledgement of Nate/Rosa as champions. )((I believe Rival makes note of it, Alder and his Grandson both note it, and I think another NPC says something about it.))

Last edited by Khrysta; January 25th, 2013 at 09:31 PM.
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  #15    
Old January 25th, 2013, 09:58 PM
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I'm starting to like this topic, haha.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerberus87 View Post
The only reason you can freely trade between BW and B2W2 is because they're part of the same generation.

True, that could be said of FRLG and RSE as well, but considering the RSE Pokémon already exist during the time of FRLG, I'd say they're concomitant.
Free trading and battling is free trading and battling no matter how you look at it. Why not have another time capsule-like thing instead or something like that explained for battling? Allowing players two years apart(literally) to trade as if there is no time difference pretty much shows that it probably doesn't really mean anything other than, yet again, retconning things.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerberus87 View Post
That's an interesting argument, but RSE can't be after DPP because of all the new moves and evolutions that are in DPP but aren't in RSE. Unless, of course, they remake RSE. I might be inclined to think RSE happens in-between FRLG and HGSS, but never between the two Unova games.
The same argument can be said about Steel and Dark types being discovered in Gen II(which is after Gen III according to some of you), yet we have both of those types available in Gen III quite normally.

Btw, I'm not saying they have to be inbetween the Unova games, I'm saying that there are also things that go against it happening simultaneously with Gen I.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerberus87 View Post
In GSC the new Johto Pokémon are referred to as "newly found", although FRLG screwed up the logic by introducing Johto Pokémon in the Sevii Islands.

If RSE happened during 5th gen, there would certainly be Pokémon not indigenous to Hoenn that were introduced later in the series, such as Sinnoh and Unova Pokémon. Again, a remake can fix that, but the fact FRLG, which is the very first game chronologically, can trade with RSE without the machine being labeled a "time machine" as it was in GSC, to me may not be conclusive proof, but it points in the direction of FRLG and RSE being simultaneous.
That whole trading thing doesn't necessarily mean a thing and is more of a game mechanic than a plot point because B2W2 is free of using such a mechanic to communicate with BW, despite the former happening two years later.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerberus87 View Post
Also there are the Orbs in HGSS which allow you to harness the power of the Weather Trio, it's pretty unlikely Mr. Pokémon would be in possession of such items allowing a trainer to summon those Pokémon before Team Magma/Aqua even could. Finally, the Jade Orb, to call Rayquaza, didn't even exist in RSE, it could have been discovered later on.

And remember that in Emerald, which is the true canon for Hoenn (as B2W2 demonstrates), the protagonist does NOT catch any of the Weather Trio during the storyline, making them available for Ethan/Lyra in HGSS.
Aren't you only able to capture them after the main story in HGSS as well? IIRC, you need Rock Climb which is gotten after you beat Blue(which is after the main storyline). The orbs being with Mr. Pokemon could simply be used as a means to obtain Groudon and Kyogre in Gen IV for all we know.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerberus87 View Post
Very slim chance. I haven't played B2W2 but I've seen videos of those NPCs and IMO you're seeing only what you want to see here. BW also makes mention of the Go-Goggles. It was probably just a nod to Hoenn (like pretty much everything Hoenn-related in B2W2).

Sincerely though, I think Cyrus was infinitely more dangerous than Archie/Maxie, so his actions would leave a much bigger impression, enough to be known by Team Plasma. The Team Plasma Grunts also don't make mention of Team Rocket, whose actions are way more "down to earth" and, therefore, more likely to be believed and known by ordinary people.
A Team Plasma Grunt referenced both Galactic and Rocket as 'drawing too much attention to themselves' in BW. Team Magma and Aqua definitely also made their appearance known, especially with the chaos they unleashed on the weather, so why are they all of a sudden exempt from something like that? I'm not arguing that they were doing worse things than Galactic but they were definitely doing something that would've done much more damage than the Rockets were doing had we not helped to stop it.

I've actually played B2W2 so trust me, it isn't me just seeing what I want to. Why do the Aqua/Magma grunts randomly appear in B2W2 with no mention of the teams in BW? Coincidence or not, we can't really be sure but it could point in a different direction than everyone is believing as well.

The Go Goggles have little to do with proving anything about the plot because we'd need them to enter the desert in Hoenn anyways.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerberus87 View Post
Well I'm pretty sure Bulbapedia put it there for a reason. The reason is that, to date, the place most plausible to fit RSE is during the events of FRLG. There's way more proof of that than there is proof of Hoenn happening between BW and B2W2 (in fact, there's no proof of the latter).
I wasn't saying that there is proof of them happening between the two, I was showing that they could have happened between the two because of what I pointed out. Where is this proof of Gen I and III happening simultaneously? Most of the stuff pointed out has next to nothing to do with the plots themselves.

Looks to me like you're trying to see only what you want to see as well then.


Quote:
Originally Posted by XanderO View Post
As far as how they can be linked, as stated before in the other threads where this came up, both Bill and Lanette have made references to working with one another and Bill and Celio both said that they were working with Lanette to create a Link to Hoenn in FR/LG.

The original Email sent to Lanette said that Bill and Lanette created the storage unit together, to which Lanette upgraded her regions and later Kanto's due to link up. Bebe designed her version of the Storage unit well after Lanette and Bill so Sinnoh didn't have a storage unit for trainers until after the events of Gens 1 and 3.
Does the ability to trade really have anything to do with the main plots happening together? So they've known each other a while, not a big deal really. Bebe also developing her storage unit after Bill and Lanette's models could also mean just that, it's based off of them. There is no real indication of the time all of them are developed(correct me if I'm wrong).


Quote:
Originally Posted by XanderO View Post
The bit with Team Plasma in regards to other teams. This is all opinion based. Magma/Aqua aren't note worthy at all. They didn't have world domination goals like Rocket, Plasma, or Galactic had. They weren't trafficing people and Pokemon for their own personal goals go the level that Rocket, Plasma, or Galactic were. By comparison, Aqua and Magma were petty small time thugs with no real ambition. Look how easily they gave up after coming inches upon reaching their goal all because the legend they had was a little stronger than that thought they were.

They weren't worth mentioning in either B/W or B2W2 (which other than the grunts, they still weren't mentioned at all by the evil team that was emulating the other two)
It is opinion based, yet they aren't noteworthy...yeah, makes total sense.

It's not as much about world domination as it is about being noticeable, as mentioned when the Plasma Grunt says Rocket and Galactic had 'drawn too much attention to themselves'. So you're saying that Magma and Aqua's actions didn't draw quite the attention to themselves? I really disagree there.
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  #16    
Old January 26th, 2013, 12:29 AM
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Does the ability to trade really have anything to do with the main plots happening together? So they've known each other a while, not a big deal really. Bebe also developing her storage unit after Bill and Lanette's models could also mean just that, it's based off of them. There is no real indication of the time all of them are developed(correct me if I'm wrong).
It gives a placement in time. Bill and Lanette made thiers together. As far as we know it could have been made right before you started your journey as they were still tweeking it. Same with Bebe's and Amnita's PCs.


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It is opinion based, yet they aren't noteworthy...yeah, makes total sense.

It's not as much about world domination as it is about being noticeable, as mentioned when the Plasma Grunt says Rocket and Galactic had 'drawn too much attention to themselves'. So you're saying that Magma and Aqua's actions didn't draw quite the attention to themselves? I really disagree there.
Yes reason for it is opinion based and I posted MY opinions. No Aqua and Magma weren't really out there with their plots. Only a few times to small amounts of people. They didn't do anything of merit through the original main games (R/S) with the largest possible being the awakenings which probably went unknown as not all of Hoenn was effected, nor do the people know who awakened them. Largest for the Director's Cut (E) was the space station attack. But with split universes we can't say what is Canon for sure as based on HG/SS Events in Emerald were not Canon, but if you don't include remakes then either could be Canon.

Gens 3 and 4 are the only ones with parallel worlds with drastic dynamic changes to the story unlike all past and current games.

Parallels to all the Initial Duo games are always even, and the first two thirds didn't change much with the main story while Gens 3 and 4 game second tellings of the stories with a heavy change to the overall plot to include both original Legends Plus one.
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Old January 26th, 2013, 05:27 AM
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The same argument can be said about Steel and Dark types being discovered in Gen II(which is after Gen III according to some of you), yet we have both of those types available in Gen III quite normally.

Btw, I'm not saying they have to be inbetween the Unova games, I'm saying that there are also things that go against it happening simultaneously with Gen I.
The fact that Dark and Steel types were introduced in Gen 2 has nothing to do with the timeline. Since Magnemite is a Electric/Steel type in FR/LG and is a mono Electric in the originals. It's just a new mechaninc.


Well I believe that R/B/Y/FR/LG happened first and that G/S/C/HG/SS and D/P/P happened 3 years after, B/W happens after those games since Cynthia mentions Lucas in B/W and B2/W2 happens 2 years after B/W.
R/S/E could happen arround R/B/Y/FR/LG or it could happen around B/W. I think they happen around R/B/Y/FR/LG.

Also Gamefreak could pull a Zelda Timeline on us...
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Old January 26th, 2013, 07:05 AM
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It gives a placement in time. Bill and Lanette made thiers together. As far as we know it could have been made right before you started your journey as they were still tweeking it. Same with Bebe's and Amnita's PCs.
That's what I meant. We don't know when they truly started their work on the systems and for all we know they were just tweaking it when we met them. That means that Bebe's could have been started at least before our journeys or after, it's all up for interpretation at this point. Their work in itself doesn't really have much to do with the main events that we go through in the respective regions looking at it that way.


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Yes reason for it is opinion based and I posted MY opinions. No Aqua and Magma weren't really out there with their plots. Only a few times to small amounts of people. They didn't do anything of merit through the original main games (R/S) with the largest possible being the awakenings which probably went unknown as not all of Hoenn was effected, nor do the people know who awakened them. Largest for the Director's Cut (E) was the space station attack. But with split universes we can't say what is Canon for sure as based on HG/SS Events in Emerald were not Canon, but if you don't include remakes then either could be Canon.

Gens 3 and 4 are the only ones with parallel worlds with drastic dynamic changes to the story unlike all past and current games.

Parallels to all the Initial Duo games are always even, and the first two thirds didn't change much with the main story while Gens 3 and 4 game second tellings of the stories with a heavy change to the overall plot to include both original Legends Plus one.
I'll admit that I didn't fully look at the part about the opinion thing and may have jumbled up something there and I apologise for that.

As for them making themselves noticeable, I still have to disagree and say that they did it often enough. They did harass people for items they needed(Devon Goods on a few occasions, Meteorite), Magma in Emerald really made themselves known when they had planned to take over the Space Center in Mossdeep, they made themselves known when they stole Captain Stern's sub, surely everyone didn't think their being all over Lilycove was a vacation, and the weather crisis among other things.

Whether or not their actions were as bad is arguable but they certainly did more than enough to make themselves pretty noticeable if you ask me. Like Galactic and Rocket, they did not keep nearly as secretive as Plasma. Plasma, or Ghetsis mainly rather, was giving everyone something reasonable to think about while hiding out their (Ghetsis') true intentions while Magma and Aqua had no problem at all resorting to thievery, etc. to get what they wanted like other teams.

Gen III and IV did screw up a lot with how things went, making it hard to understand what truely is canon and what isn't. As infer mentioned above, they could very well pull a Zelda timeline.


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The fact that Dark and Steel types were introduced in Gen 2 has nothing to do with the timeline. Since Magnemite is a Electric/Steel type in FR/LG and is a mono Electric in the originals. It's just a new mechaninc.
I was more referring to how Cerber had brought up about them being mentioned as 'new' types then, although that was since taken away in later games and remakes. They're constantly adding and taking things away, so it can get confusing.


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Well I believe that R/B/Y/FR/LG happened first and that G/S/C/HG/SS and D/P/P happened 3 years after, B/W happens after those games since Cynthia mentions Lucas in B/W and B2/W2 happens 2 years after B/W.
R/S/E could happen arround R/B/Y/FR/LG or it could happen around B/W. I think they happen around R/B/Y/FR/LG.

Also Gamefreak could pull a Zelda Timeline on us...
Thank you for finally being someone who at least tries to look at my side on things. I'm not 100% against the idea of them happening around the time of RBYFrLg, I don't see it like that though, especially after what was brought up in the 5th gen.

It's just tiring when everyone uses the ol' 'Bulbapedia says it so it's law' argument when the site itself doesn't even have much of anything concerning the matter specifically, it's more placed the way it is based on really loose things. Trading directly also has little to do with the main plots themselves because they could just simply be retconning things. B2W2 has direct trade and battle with BW, even though they take place two years later, so that breaks any 'direct trade means they happen at the same time' mold. Pretty much it unless I've missed anything. Still early at the time of writing this.

As for the whole Zelda timeline subject, I've actually read up on people who have a similar thinking about that. They could very well pull one on us like that with Gen III and IV messing things up with drastic differences in versions.
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Old January 26th, 2013, 12:17 PM
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unfortunately for the TC, i don't think anyone on these forums will figure out a timeline for the simple fact that this doesn't seem to be an aspect GF gave much importance/thought and if they decide to establish one, it's kinda hard to do it solely with the current generations.
even IF they intend to do it they'll probably need 1 or 2 more gens to tie everything nicely without raising too many questions.
the most we can do is to find out the number of possibilities available.

there is no such thing as a solution at this point and many "evidences" are wishful thinking (when trying to use them as proof opposed to possibilities) just like the majority of the hints regarding the remakes.

anyway, the way i see it, this thread is rather pointless so i'll just go back to the lurkers corner xD
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Old January 26th, 2013, 03:32 PM
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There are two major inconsistencies with some of the games. First and foremost. R/S/E all happen at the same time. They aren't at different times, but each set R/S and E have different champions. This is a huge error with many view points on the time line. We cannot use any proof revolving around the Champions as there are two different universes in Generation 3 alone.

Second major issue, PWT. It is NOT canon in any way , shape or form. They bring Giovanni back as a Gym Leader for Kanto and Blue as Kanto's Champion. Blue is no longer the Champion and Giovanni is no longer a Gym leader.

Same is said for Red being Kanto Champion and Wallace and Steven both appearing in the Champion cycle as well.

As far as how they can be linked, as stated before in the other threads where this came up, both Bill and Lanette have made references to working with one another and Bill and Celio both said that they were working with Lanette to create a Link to Hoenn in FR/LG.

The original Email sent to Lanette said that Bill and Lanette created the storage unit together, to which Lanette upgraded her regions and later Kanto's due to link up. Bebe designed her version of the Storage unit well after Lanette and Bill so Sinnoh didn't have a storage unit for trainers until after the events of Gens 1 and 3.

The bit with Team Plasma in regards to other teams. This is all opinion based. Magma/Aqua aren't note worthy at all. They didn't have world domination goals like Rocket, Plasma, or Galactic had. They weren't trafficing people and Pokemon for their own personal goals go the level that Rocket, Plasma, or Galactic were. By comparison, Aqua and Magma were petty small time thugs with no real ambition. Look how easily they gave up after coming inches upon reaching their goal all because the legend they had was a little stronger than that thought they were.

They weren't worth mentioning in either B/W or B2W2 (which other than the grunts, they still weren't mentioned at all by the evil team that was emulating the other two)

Jasmin traveling to Sinnoh doesn't mean it has to be after the events of HG/SS. Cynthia is still Champion in HG/SS and she travels to Johto despite having the possibility of a challenger. They are all able to freely travel as they wish, they just end up closing the Gyms while they are gone. Not like we haven't seen that happen before in the main games.

Giovanni in R/B/Y/G/FR/LG.
Blue in G/S/C/HG/SS.
Lorelie in FR/LG (after her battle plot in the Sevii Islands you gain access to the upgraded E4 and Champion)
Burgh in B2W2
Clay in B/W
Jasmine in G/S/C/HG/SS
By a slight issue with Story not allowing you to go, Volkner in D/P/Pt...since he causes a black out in Sunny Shore.


Also to note...only PCs to be recognized as "Champions" to date are Red and Nate/Rosa. Simply put, Nate/Rosa can only enter the Champions tournament because they are the current Unova Champion having beaten Iris. None of the other PCs have had proof(in other games or in post game info) that they were champions, only that they beat the current champion and were inducted into the hall of fame. (Which no does not mean they are champions, only that the were acknowledged as having beaten the current champion. If the PCs turn down the status then the last Champion is still champion which is usually the basic case outside of Gen 2 post story quest and B2W2's NPC acknowledgement of Nate/Rosa as champions. )((I believe Rival makes note of it, Alder and his Grandson both note it, and I think another NPC says something about it.))
Thanks for saying what I wanted to say, the bit about the box system pretty much proves FRLG and RSE were concomitant or at least very close in the timeline, because how could you link with Lanette if Lanette was in the future? Of course, the Hoenn Pokémon may have existed since the very beginning of the series' timeline, but if RSE were (much) ahead of FRLG in the timeline, a point would've been made in the games themselves about Hoenn being a number of years after the other games. 3rd gen, unlike BW, was a "true reboot", because they retconned a lot of the things about the old games afterwards, like, existence of Dark and Steel-type, existence of Johto Pokémon before Johto becoming relevant to the storyline, and so on.

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Free trading and battling is free trading and battling no matter how you look at it. Why not have another time capsule-like thing instead or something like that explained for battling? Allowing players two years apart(literally) to trade as if there is no time difference pretty much shows that it probably doesn't really mean anything other than, yet again, retconning things.
An explanation wasn't needed because the games ran on the same mechanics. Although, I'm not sure you can use Black Kyurem/White Kyurem for link play against someone who has BW (linking compatibility aren't my strength because it's been a while since I last linked with someone).

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Originally Posted by C Payne View Post
The same argument can be said about Steel and Dark types being discovered in Gen II(which is after Gen III according to some of you), yet we have both of those types available in Gen III quite normally.

Btw, I'm not saying they have to be inbetween the Unova games, I'm saying that there are also things that go against it happening simultaneously with Gen I.
This was retconned in HGSS.

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That whole trading thing doesn't necessarily mean a thing and is more of a game mechanic than a plot point because B2W2 is free of using such a mechanic to communicate with BW, despite the former happening two years later.
But the PC system and the ability to connect with Lanette became plot points as soon as the characters were mentioned.

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Aren't you only able to capture them after the main story in HGSS as well? IIRC, you need Rock Climb which is gotten after you beat Blue(which is after the main storyline). The orbs being with Mr. Pokemon could simply be used as a means to obtain Groudon and Kyogre in Gen IV for all we know.
It could go both ways. In BW, Ghetsis is shown to have obtained the Adamant, Lustrous and Griseous Orbs from DPP. How, it's not known and probably will never be, but it's something of note and we know BW takes place many years after DPP.

The fact the Red/Blue/Jade Orbs are in a different location in HGSS therefore rules out the possibility that RSE is concomitant with DPP/HGSS. So they can only be before or after those games. Since there's no evidence of them being after apart from the two grunts in B2W2, even though they mention things in the past and it could be a small while or a huge period of time, I'm going to go with them being before 4th gen. I suspect they could be after FRLG but not long after.

Another thing, which isn't much of a proof but makes you wonder, is the fact that, of all the new evolutions discovered in 2nd gen and 4th gen, I believe Crobat and Kingdra are the only ones to appear in RSE. Crobat/Bellossom/Politoed/Slowking/Espeon/Umbreon/Steelix/Scizor/Kingdra/Porygon2/Blissey aren't native to Kanto, although they can be obtained in FRLG (not Espeon/Umbreon though), but only after you obtain the National Dex. The new evolutions from 4th gen aren't known in Hoenn, which pushes it far back in the storyline.

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A Team Plasma Grunt referenced both Galactic and Rocket as 'drawing too much attention to themselves' in BW. Team Magma and Aqua definitely also made their appearance known, especially with the chaos they unleashed on the weather, so why are they all of a sudden exempt from something like that? I'm not arguing that they were doing worse things than Galactic but they were definitely doing something that would've done much more damage than the Rockets were doing had we not helped to stop it.

I've actually played B2W2 so trust me, it isn't me just seeing what I want to. Why do the Aqua/Magma grunts randomly appear in B2W2 with no mention of the teams in BW? Coincidence or not, we can't really be sure but it could point in a different direction than everyone is believing as well.

The Go Goggles have little to do with proving anything about the plot because we'd need them to enter the desert in Hoenn anyways.
The incident with Teams Magma and Aqua had little repercussion out of Hoenn because not even all of Hoenn was affected by the change in the weather. If we take Emerald as canon, Brendan/May managed to summon Rayquaza before things got more dangerous. Besides, I think criminals like Team Plasma wouldn't take Magma and Aqua much seriously because Maxie and Archie weren't high criminals like Giovanni for example, they did criminal deeds but their ultimate goal wasn't a criminal one. And, in comparison with Team Galactic, they were much less dangerous. Maxie/Archie couldn't even control the Pokémon they summoned. Meanwhile, Cyrus was able to capture several legendary Pokémon and was only stopped because Giratina intervened.

Another thing to contribute to the debate: a trainer in FRLG mentions Bruno trained with Brawly once. For someone of the stature of Bruno (E4 member) to have trained with Brawly, it must've been after Brawly became gym leader. Brawly was already a gym leader during the events of RSE, and he doesn't look too old either.
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Old January 26th, 2013, 10:48 PM
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Thanks for saying what I wanted to say, the bit about the box system pretty much proves FRLG and RSE were concomitant or at least very close in the timeline, because how could you link with Lanette if Lanette was in the future? Of course, the Hoenn Pokémon may have existed since the very beginning of the series' timeline, but if RSE were (much) ahead of FRLG in the timeline, a point would've been made in the games themselves about Hoenn being a number of years after the other games. 3rd gen, unlike BW, was a "true reboot", because they retconned a lot of the things about the old games afterwards, like, existence of Dark and Steel-type, existence of Johto Pokémon before Johto becoming relevant to the storyline, and so on.
Was it established that they started their projects during our adventures? No, they just have worked together is all we know(which has little to do with everything that's going on other than trading between regions). With it being the first reboot, they may not have had a whole timeline thing planned out so it might not have matter as much to them then. As I'm sure we can all agree on, a remake could place things better than the 'next to nothing' info we have now to get a true idea of where the Hoenn storyline comes into play.

What I see from Xander's post is the further possibility of a zelda timeline.

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An explanation wasn't needed because the games ran on the same mechanics. Although, I'm not sure you can use Black Kyurem/White Kyurem for link play against someone who has BW (linking compatibility aren't my strength because it's been a while since I last linked with someone).
You can't use the new forms(because, IIRC, they weren't programmed in the original games) but that still doesn't take from the fact that B2W2 happened two years after BW yet can trade and battle with each other as if they occurred at the same time. Same game engine or not, the whole argument you and others made about how RSE and FrLg had to be at the same time was based on the direct trade between the two sets. That was broken when B2W2 came along(like a lot of a things) because they did not happen simultaneously with BW yet can communicate like nothing's different.

There would have been no problem at all with making some kind of time thing to connect the two stories. That could possibly show that it is the least of their worries.


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This was retconned in HGSS.
Until we are 100% sure that no further remakes are coming, I think we can safely say that there is a possibility of a more recognizable retcon with Hoenn's main games.

Just like how the 'new' type thing was made arguable later on until HGSS came around.


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But the PC system and the ability to connect with Lanette became plot points as soon as the characters were mentioned.
They may connect the regions, but that doesn't mean that they automatically connect the main plots of their respective regions(Aqua/Magma and the Rockets doing what they did as we played through). About all we know is that they, over time, have helped each other on the PC systems of the regions. There is no mention of when they started or how long they've been working on it or anything. They know each other, not a big deal really.

HOWEVER, if we're going this route then I'll consider the possibility of after FrLg, considering the connection takes place after the main stories there. I'm not going to fully believe though until we get much more notable things thrown at us.


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It could go both ways. In BW, Ghetsis is shown to have obtained the Adamant, Lustrous and Griseous Orbs from DPP. How, it's not known and probably will never be, but it's something of note and we know BW takes place many years after DPP.

The fact the Red/Blue/Jade Orbs are in a different location in HGSS therefore rules out the possibility that RSE is concomitant with DPP/HGSS. So they can only be before or after those games. Since there's no evidence of them being after apart from the two grunts in B2W2, even though they mention things in the past and it could be a small while or a huge period of time, I'm going to go with them being before 4th gen. I suspect they could be after FRLG but not long after.
Like I'm surewe can agree on, this is opened to different interpretations, as with a lot of other stuff.

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Another thing, which isn't much of a proof but makes you wonder, is the fact that, of all the new evolutions discovered in 2nd gen and 4th gen, I believe Crobat and Kingdra are the only ones to appear in RSE. Crobat/Bellossom/Politoed/Slowking/Espeon/Umbreon/Steelix/Scizor/Kingdra/Porygon2/Blissey aren't native to Kanto, although they can be obtained in FRLG (not Espeon/Umbreon though), but only after you obtain the National Dex. The new evolutions from 4th gen aren't known in Hoenn, which pushes it far back in the storyline.
Couldn't that go both ways as well seeing as Kingdra and Crobat are available during the main storyline?

Also note that Marill, Azumarill, Slugma, Magcargo, Chinchou, Lanturn, Wynaut, Wobbuffet, Phanpy, Donphan, Natu, Xatu, Heracross, and Girafarig, among others(all of which were introduced in Gen II) happen to be native to Hoenn as well. Can we automatically write that off as just coincidence? I'm not using it as proof, because it really isn't either, but more as something to think over as well.


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The incident with Teams Magma and Aqua had little repercussion out of Hoenn because not even all of Hoenn was affected by the change in the weather. If we take Emerald as canon, Brendan/May managed to summon Rayquaza before things got more dangerous. Besides, I think criminals like Team Plasma wouldn't take Magma and Aqua much seriously because Maxie and Archie weren't high criminals like Giovanni for example, they did criminal deeds but their ultimate goal wasn't a criminal one. And, in comparison with Team Galactic, they were much less dangerous. Maxie/Archie couldn't even control the Pokémon they summoned. Meanwhile, Cyrus was able to capture several legendary Pokémon and was only stopped because Giratina intervened.

Another thing to contribute to the debate: a trainer in FRLG mentions Bruno trained with Brawly once. For someone of the stature of Bruno (E4 member) to have trained with Brawly, it must've been after Brawly became gym leader. Brawly was already a gym leader during the events of RSE, and he doesn't look too old either.
*sigh*

It's not all about how sinister the plans were, even though Aqua ans Magma chose thievery, etc. as well to accomplish what they wanted. The Grunt makes mention of how noticeable they made themselves and that being the downfall of their plans. Make of it as you wish, but Magma and Aqua made themselves well known as well.

As for Brawly and Bruno, now you are(as you claimed I was) seeing what you want it seems. Them training together doesn't mean it had to have been after he became gym leader, they could have been old friends for all we know. On top of that, correct me if I'm wrong but, we don't even have real ages to work with. While I'm not going to argue that Brawly isn't on the younger side, Bruno doesn't appear to be ancient either, just really fit(although a safe bet is that he is older nonetheless).
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  #22    
Old January 26th, 2013, 11:53 PM
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Was it established that they started their projects during our adventures? No, they just have worked together is all we know(which has little to do with everything that's going on other than trading between regions). With it being the first reboot, they may not have had a whole timeline thing planned out so it might not have matter as much to them then. As I'm sure we can all agree on, a remake could place things better than the 'next to nothing' info we have now to get a true idea of where the Hoenn storyline comes into play.
A remake wouldn't add much info. The idea that DPP and HGSS took place at the same time is taken from the events in DPP itself, not HGSS.

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You can't use the new forms(because, IIRC, they weren't programmed in the original games) but that still doesn't take from the fact that B2W2 happened two years after BW yet can trade and battle with each other as if they occurred at the same time. Same game engine or not, the whole argument you and others made about how RSE and FrLg had to be at the same time was based on the direct trade between the two sets. That was broken when B2W2 came along(like a lot of a things) because they did not happen simultaneously with BW yet can communicate like nothing's different.
You can freely trade between RBY and GSC as well. Of course, you can't trade new Pokémon and moves back to RBY, but you can trade back some stuff that didn't exist in RBY (such as Alakazam with the elemental punches). So (relatively) free trade is possible between games in different time frames. The only reason you can't do battle between RBY and GSC is the different game mechanics. Back then, it was explained through a time machine.

However, and this is a BIG however, you can still do free battle between RBY and GSC if you have a platform which supports both. This platform was called Pokémon Stadium 2 for the N64. In PS2, RBY cartridges could be used and then obeyed GSC mechanics in the game's battles.

BW and B2W2 don't have any different game mechanics. Two years have passed, but no moves nor Pokémon were added. This is why a "time machine" isn't necessary.

With regards to the RSE/FRLG thing, it's never stated that there is trade along different time frames. However, there is evidence that it can't be concomitant with DPP/HGSS, because the Orbs aren't in Hoenn during this period, and it can't be after BW either, since BW is after all the other games. This leaves the period between DPP/HGSS and BW, the period between FRLG and DPP/HGSS, or concomitant with FRLG. But how can you explain RSE being after DPP if none of the new evolutions discovered in Sinnoh are known to Hoenn locals?

3rd gen retconned a lot of things it shouldn't have, IMO. Because in 2nd gen it was made clear that the new Pokémon from Johto were discovered after the original 151, and the new types were a recent discovery as well. With 3rd gen, Johto Pokémon appear in Hoenn and the Sevii Islands, and the Steel-type is no longer unknown. RSE should've been placed after GSC, but as it stood, it was so detached from the other regions that it almost seems like it's from another dimension.

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They may connect the regions, but that doesn't mean that they automatically connect the main plots of their respective regions(Aqua/Magma and the Rockets doing what they did as we played through). About all we know is that they, over time, have helped each other on the PC systems of the regions. There is no mention of when they started or how long they've been working on it or anything. They know each other, not a big deal really.
The plots are connected, because, where are all the Hoenn Pokémon coming from? They're caught during the plot of RSE and traded to the plot of FRLG, without any mention of time travel.

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Originally Posted by C Payne View Post
Couldn't that go both ways as well seeing as Kingdra and Crobat are available during the main storyline?

Also note that Marill, Azumarill, Slugma, Magcargo, Chinchou, Lanturn, Wynaut, Wobbuffet, Phanpy, Donphan, Natu, Xatu, Heracross, and Girafarig, among others(all of which were introduced in Gen II) happen to be native to Hoenn as well. Can we automatically write that off as just coincidence? I'm not using it as proof, because it really isn't either, but more as something to think over as well.
There are Johto Pokémon in Hoenn, just like there are Johto Pokémon in the Sevii Islands. Retcon of 2nd gen.

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Originally Posted by C Payne View Post
*sigh*

It's not all about how sinister the plans were, even though Aqua ans Magma chose thievery, etc. as well to accomplish what they wanted. The Grunt makes mention of how noticeable they made themselves and that being the downfall of their plans. Make of it as you wish, but Magma and Aqua made themselves well known as well.
Known only in Hoenn. And even in Hoenn, there are parts of the game where you don't see any mention of Aqua/Magma.

There's no mention of Aqua/Magma in further games of the series outside the grunts in Icirrus City, who live anonymously. If their actions were recent (as in only a few years ago) and relevant (as in worldwide relevant), there would be people in Unova discussing them in both BW and B2W2, much like there were people in both Johto and Kanto discussing Team Rocket's actions three years prior in HGSS.

Maxie was a reckless buffoon. Once he found out he couldn't control Groudon, he devised a stupid plan of stealing rocket fuel to cause an eruption in Mt. Chimney. It's one of the most senseless things I've seen a Pokémon villain do in the games, because it really had no reason, he wouldn't gain anything by doing it, and it certainly doesn't help the case of making people take Aqua/Magma more seriously.

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Originally Posted by C Payne View Post
As for Brawly and Bruno, now you are(as you claimed I was) seeing what you want it seems. Them training together doesn't mean it had to have been after he became gym leader, they could have been old friends for all we know. On top of that, correct me if I'm wrong but, we don't even have real ages to work with. While I'm not going to argue that Brawly isn't on the younger side, Bruno doesn't appear to be ancient either, just really fit(although a safe bet is that he is older nonetheless).
Doesn't mean it's after Brawly became gym leader, but he was old and important enough to be taken under Bruno's wing. He doesn't look older than Bruno either. Bruno is an Elite Four member, it's assumed it takes hard work and recognition to reach such level. And time, of course.

This IMO is another proof that RSE is at the very least before DPP/HGSS because, if it was far into the future, Brawly would have to have been a kid when training under Bruno, who was a young adult in RBY. The NPC in FRLG references Brawly as a "guy", so, at least someone in his teens.

My evidence may not be all that strong, because, like I said, Hoenn seems to have happened in another dimension, but at least I'm not basing it in ifs, coulds and shoulds.
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  #23    
Old January 27th, 2013, 01:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Cerberus87 View Post
A remake wouldn't add much info. The idea that DPP and HGSS took place at the same time is taken from the events in DPP itself, not HGSS.
I didn't say they happened during HGSS/DPPt, I'm talking about where RSE fit in general. We've shown time and time again that we have no definite spot as of yet.


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Originally Posted by Cerberus87 View Post
You can freely trade between RBY and GSC as well. Of course, you can't trade new Pokémon and moves back to RBY, but you can trade back some stuff that didn't exist in RBY (such as Alakazam with the elemental punches). So (relatively) free trade is possible between games in different time frames. The only reason you can't do battle between RBY and GSC is the different game mechanics. Back then, it was explained through a time machine.

However, and this is a BIG however, you can still do free battle between RBY and GSC if you have a platform which supports both. This platform was called Pokémon Stadium 2 for the N64. In PS2, RBY cartridges could be used and then obeyed GSC mechanics in the game's battles.
With Stadium 1 and 2 being pretty early(before a lot of this time stuff came into play) and different takes at the time at that, can we truely call them 100% revelant? Even then, if they are able to do what you say(It's been a long time since I've tested it out) it's just as bad as the BW and B2W2 incident.

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Originally Posted by Cerberus87 View Post
BW and B2W2 don't have any different game mechanics. Two years have passed, but no moves nor Pokémon were added. This is why a "time machine" isn't necessary.
Yeah, me being able to freely trade and battle with myself from two years ago totally makes sense!(note the obvious sarcasm there) A time machine should be used for time as well, even if not much has changed. I personally see that as a pretty noticeable flaw of Gen 5. They could have been connected with some sort of time mechanism but didn't. Why? Who the hell can know really other than them? This supports that they may just not care as much about time as the fans are obsessed with.

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Originally Posted by Cerberus87 View Post
With regards to the RSE/FRLG thing, it's never stated that there is trade along different time frames. However, there is evidence that it can't be concomitant with DPP/HGSS, because the Orbs aren't in Hoenn during this period, and it can't be after BW either, since BW is after all the other games. This leaves the period between DPP/HGSS and BW, the period between FRLG and DPP/HGSS, or concomitant with FRLG. But how can you explain RSE being after DPP if none of the new evolutions discovered in Sinnoh are known to Hoenn locals?
Once again, I don't recall making any mention of RSE happening alongside HGSS/DPPt. If we do happen to get remakes, they could retcon Hoenn much better like HGSS retconned Johto better for the most part.

I'm sure they also hadn't really planned a real timeline back then(aside from Johto events being after Kanto; RSE were a reboot anyways). This could also explain why RSE is so messed up like you pointed out.

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Originally Posted by Cerberus87 View Post
3rd gen retconned a lot of things it shouldn't have, IMO. Because in 2nd gen it was made clear that the new Pokémon from Johto were discovered after the original 151, and the new types were a recent discovery as well. With 3rd gen, Johto Pokémon appear in Hoenn and the Sevii Islands, and the Steel-type is no longer unknown. RSE should've been placed after GSC, but as it stood, it was so detached from the other regions that it almost seems like it's from another dimension.
Has that showed you the possibility of it happening somewhere/time other than alongside FrLg? Like I mentioned above, they may have not planned much to do with a timeline in the first few gens. RSE was a reboot, which detached it from the first two sets. Aside from the 3 years between the first two regions, nothing notable was really made about a timeline until DPPt came along and discussed the Red Gyarados incident.


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Originally Posted by Cerberus87 View Post
The plots are connected, because, where are all the Hoenn Pokémon coming from? They're caught during the plot of RSE and traded to the plot of FRLG, without any mention of time travel.

There are Johto Pokémon in Hoenn, just like there are Johto Pokémon in the Sevii Islands. Retcon of 2nd gen.
More than likely just another retcon like Johto Pokes appearing in the Sevii Islands. Refer to a certain point I made above. If Hoenn Pokemon did indeed come into Kanto during that time that means they also had huge access to Johto, with it being a neighbor and sharing Pokemon with Kanto, so why weren't Hoenn Pokes added into the regional dex of HGSS?


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Originally Posted by Cerberus87 View Post
Known only in Hoenn. And even in Hoenn, there are parts of the game where you don't see any mention of Aqua/Magma.

There's no mention of Aqua/Magma in further games of the series outside the grunts in Icirrus City, who live anonymously. If their actions were recent (as in only a few years ago) and relevant (as in worldwide relevant), there would be people in Unova discussing them in both BW and B2W2, much like there were people in both Johto and Kanto discussing Team Rocket's actions three years prior in HGSS.

Maxie was a reckless buffoon. Once he found out he couldn't control Groudon, he devised a stupid plan of stealing rocket fuel to cause an eruption in Mt. Chimney. It's one of the most senseless things I've seen a Pokémon villain do in the games, because it really had no reason, he wouldn't gain anything by doing it, and it certainly doesn't help the case of making people take Aqua/Magma more seriously.
If they moved there after the events, that doesn't mean that they are going to announce what happened to all of Unova. As with Galactic and Rocket's events, they were stopped before things spread beyond in their respective regions(Rockets being in two, but that made sense anyways with Johto and Kanto as neighbors). I don't recall anyone mentioning Rocket and Galactics events on a usual basis either in B2W2, or BW for that matter. Furthermore, even though they were a ways in the past, that didn't stop the Plasma Grunt mentioning Galactic and Rocket's flaw. It's really strange that they didn't at least note the stupidity(as everyone seems to think) or simply the flaws behind Maxie and Archie's plans, which also would have led to a global disaster had Rayquaza not intervened(something big).

The last part of the first paragraph isn't fair because Johto and Kanto are neighbors, so are likely prone to the same attacks, while Hoenn and Unova, as far as we know, are pretty distant. The latter was pretty independent so it's still likely that the events of Gen III wouldn't have been widely known there at the time.

Also, while Maxie weren't exactly thinking 100% clearly during the raid on the Space Center, that obviously caused even more publicity for the team, regardless of how meaningless it really was(yet again, what the Plasma Grunt was referring to in BW). Even then, that could just be one of the original flaws that could be better addressed in a remake. If they were really a joke in the population's eyes though, everyone downstairs wouldn't have been a bunch of cowards until we came along.


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Originally Posted by Cerberus87 View Post
Doesn't mean it's after Brawly became gym leader, but he was old and important enough to be taken under Bruno's wing. He doesn't look older than Bruno either. Bruno is an Elite Four member, it's assumed it takes hard work and recognition to reach such level. And time, of course.

This IMO is another proof that RSE is at the very least before DPP/HGSS because, if it was far into the future, Brawly would have to have been a kid when training under Bruno, who was a young adult in RBY. The NPC in FRLG references Brawly as a "guy", so, at least someone in his teens.
Aaron of Sinnoh's Elite Four looks pretty young as well(compared to other E4 members in general) but that didn't stop him. Guy is a general term so it doesn't necessarily have to mean he's in his teens either(not saying you were 100% meaning that, just addressing the likelyhood of not being so), so there's not much to go by there either(aside from Brawly being younger than Bruno, I agree there). Looks can be pretty misleading though because Cyrus looks a fair bit older than he really is. The guy looks like he's in his late 30s/early 40s.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerberus87 View Post
My evidence may not be all that strong, because, like I said, Hoenn seems to have happened in another dimension, but at least I'm not basing it in ifs, coulds and shoulds.
There's no reason to be ashamed about including ifs/coulds/shoulds into the discussion because a lot of things really don't add up as of now. All of this has been really interesting to me.

I'm not 100% against what you are saying, I just don't agree with it 100% either.
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Last edited by C Payne; January 27th, 2013 at 01:22 AM.
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  #24    
Old January 28th, 2013, 07:00 PM
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GF bring out the secret time line you have stored because Pokémon has become the new Zelda... no really someone should cause it seems we'll never agree on this. I just hope XY and third version (if they do that) are like DPP in that they give us a hint that actually helps unlike the stones in RSE. Also the whole PC thing in Gen III seems to have been tossed out in gen 5 as the pc girl mentions how Babe,Bill,and the others developed the pc. So that hint isn't much...
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Old January 29th, 2013, 07:26 AM
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A lot of the arguments here are Pokemon found or native and blah blah, really has very little to do with it as a timeline is based on events.
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