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  #1476    
Old January 24th, 2013, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P0kelegend View Post
I'm not sure if I could imagine remakes in those new style of graphics. Not that it's a bad thing, but to be honest it wouldn't really feel as nostalgic for me without the top view overworld sprite.
What if the Hoenn remakes had graphics that were a 3D version of that picture of May followed by a Linoone walking through some grass? Who put in their signature for a bit again, and where'd it come from and go?
  #1477    
Old February 5th, 2013, 10:21 PM
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A few days ago while arguing with people on Pokémemes I realized something.

Long story short, I as always, was trying to tell people that RSE remakes were never properly announced, and with Ruby and Sapphire being compatible by proxy with the current Gen (plus, being at the very beginning of the Pokémon timeline, thus not really contemporary with the current Gen, as was the case with the other remakes) , they aren't as likely to happen as people think... basically the same theory I've expressed a few pages back on this very topic. In addition to some funny backlash, I mostly got two valid counter-arguments:
  • The DS/DS Lite is a fragile machine, so the Gen 3 => Gen 4 compatibility is not long for this world.
  • Game Freak is a company. Whatever is profitable, they'll do.

And then, another user, in passing, mentioned another possibility of an RSE re-release. And I though that that would take care of both problems neatly, bring roughly the same profit (because there's much, much less expenses involved) and give Game Freak more time to develop new things. Plus, it wasn't possible when remakes of the first two Gens were released, so I can imagine them switching to this now that they can. So, here goes:

What if the RSE re-release we'll get... is a 3DS Virtual Console release, patched to be compatible with the current games and with trades via Wi-Fi?

Last edited by SaniOKh; February 5th, 2013 at 10:39 PM.
  #1478    
Old February 5th, 2013, 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Suicune™ View Post
I think it's safe to say that they aren't sticking to the 10th anniversary rule, it was a good opportunity for HGSS being the right timing, a new-ish console etc but to put another remake on the same handheld as the previous set of remakes would really go down well IMO.

I think it seems more logical to stick to the new handheld, new remake theory. We had the GBA and soon after we got FRLG, we then had the DS which was followed by HGSS, now that GBA games are incompatible with the 3DS and the fact that the 3DS is considered a new handheld, I think Ruby & Sapphire Remakes would fit in well around the 2014-2015 time slot following Pokemon X & Y. Comparing the GBA graphics with the 3DS graphics is similar to comparing GBC graphics to GBA graphics... they're due for an overhaul.
BW were DSi titles, and the DSi is incompatible with RSE. Still, there were no remakes.

The only reason for remakes is to be able to catch all the Hoenn Pokémon again. It was the same thing with RS back then, the easiest way to catch all the Kanto Pokémon was just to create a remake of the first games. Same with DPPt and HGSS, there are barely any Johto Pokémon in the Sinnoh games so a remake was necessary. People who want remakes lie to themselves believing this wasn't the reason behind the creation of previous remakes, but it was. Seeing Hoenn in 3D isn't enough reason for a remake. It maybe isn't fair that Hoenn was the only region not depicted in semi-3D, but it would be greatly unfair if Hoenn was the only region among the old ones depicted in full 3D, especially when there's no reason why Hoenn should be so special to the Pokémon franchise.

If XY come out and there aren't many Hoenn Pokémon (like, there aren't at least 50 Pokémon from Hoenn), then I'll start believing there's a possibility of RSE remakes, but I'll still think they're unlikely because I think Gamefreak is done with the old regions. In fact, I think the only reason they created HGSS was because GSC were a huge success (way bigger than Hoenn was, for example) and the push for GSC remakes was much bigger than the nostalgia wave we're seeing with Hoenn right now. People wanted GSC remakes since before DP were released.

A few years from now the kids who grew with Sinnoh will start requesting remakes of Sinnoh games for the ninth generation Nintendo handheld, and (if I'm still playing Pokémon by then) I'll tell them the same, as much as I love Sinnoh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaniOKh View Post
A few days ago while arguing with people on Pokémemes I realized something.

Long story short, I as always, was trying to tell people that RSE remakes were never properly announced, and with Ruby and Sapphire being compatible by proxy with the current Gen (plus, being at the very beginning of the Pokémon timeline, thus not really contemporary with the current Gen, as was the case with the other remakes) , they aren't as likely to happen as people think... basically the same theory I've expressed a few pages back on this very topic. In addition to some funny backlash, I mostly got two valid counter-arguments:
  • The DS/DS Lite is a fragile machine, so the Gen 3 => Gen 4 compatibility is not long for this world.
  • Game Freak is a company. Whatever is profitable, they'll do.

And then, another user, in passing, mentioned another possibility of an RSE re-release. And I though that that would take care of both problems neatly, bring roughly the same profit (because there's much, much less expenses involved) and give Game Freak more time to develop new things. Plus, it wasn't possible when remakes of the first two Gens were released, so I can imagine them switching to this now that they can. So, here goes:

What if the RSE re-release we'll get... is a 3DS Virtual Console release, patched to be compatible with the current games and with trades via Wi-Fi?
This is very unlikely because they would need to create a GTS in RSE and it's pointless to code for outdated software. This also being the reason why I think we'll never see Pokémon games in the Virtual Console, since connectivity has always been a huge part of Pokémon.

Also, Pokémon data from 3rd gen is incompatible with the later gens and needs to be converted to work properly. Really, the Pal Park was just a way to recreate a 3rd gen Pokémon in 4th gen with 4th gen data. Trading is a completely different matter, both games need to use the same code for Pokémon, and RSE has outdated code which is no longer used in the other games.
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Last edited by Cerberus87; February 5th, 2013 at 11:16 PM.
  #1479    
Old February 6th, 2013, 04:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerberus87 View Post
This is very unlikely because they would need to create a GTS in RSE and it's pointless to code for outdated software. This also being the reason why I think we'll never see Pokémon games in the Virtual Console, since connectivity has always been a huge part of Pokémon.

Also, Pokémon data from 3rd gen is incompatible with the later gens and needs to be converted to work properly. Really, the Pal Park was just a way to recreate a 3rd gen Pokémon in 4th gen with 4th gen data. Trading is a completely different matter, both games need to use the same code for Pokémon, and RSE has outdated code which is no longer used in the other games.
Well, I didn't really mean full on trades with the current systems with the GTS and everything (I apologize, I was in a hurry when I wrote that so I didn't exactly say what I meant). I think that a VC release with the official emulator patched to support connectivity via Wi-Fi as if it was a link cable for trades between VC Ruby/VC Sapphire and an app (or a feature in the emulator) that would be able to convert Gen 3 to Gen 6 Pokémon à-la Pal Park isn't that unrealistic . They have the specs for both formats after all, and they'll only have to adjust their emulator, not the games themselves.

(plus, they could reuse the Wi-Fi as link cable for more GBA VC releases, so... I'd call it an interesting investment)

Last edited by SaniOKh; February 6th, 2013 at 04:21 AM.
  #1480    
Old February 6th, 2013, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerberus87 View Post
BW were DSi titles, and the DSi is incompatible with RSE. Still, there were no remakes.
B/W are not DSi games. They are DSi Compatible but not made for the DSi. B2W2 are DSi and 3DS compatible. The only DSi game in existence was a picture taking game that got horrible reviews and didn't have a very long shelf life. All Gen 5 games are DS (original) titles.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerberus87 View Post
The only reason for remakes is to be able to catch all the Hoenn Pokémon again. It was the same thing with RS back then, the easiest way to catch all the Kanto Pokémon was just to create a remake of the first games. Same with DPPt and HGSS, there are barely any Johto Pokémon in the Sinnoh games so a remake was necessary. People who want remakes lie to themselves believing this wasn't the reason behind the creation of previous remakes, but it was. Seeing Hoenn in 3D isn't enough reason for a remake. It maybe isn't fair that Hoenn was the only region not depicted in semi-3D, but it would be greatly unfair if Hoenn was the only region among the old ones depicted in full 3D, especially when there's no reason why Hoenn should be so special to the Pokémon franchise.
Actually the only reason to have Hoenn remade is for its story. Even if they don't have a large amount of Hoenn Pokemon in Gen 6, Almost 90% are available in Gen 5 with the last remaining 10% being in Gen 4 games are coded in game events. This excludes Gen 3's two Wifi Legends of course as those have never been given In Game events without the need to participate in some download even to unlock. So the only reason to remake Hoenn is for Graphic update and story update. Same can be said for Generation 1 games again as they are still on the same outdated graphics as Gen 3. Only thing we'd lose for the Gen 1 re-remakes is the Sevii Islands story which could be replaced with a different story altogether.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerberus87 View Post
If XY come out and there aren't many Hoenn Pokémon (like, there aren't at least 50 Pokémon from Hoenn), then I'll start believing there's a possibility of RSE remakes, but I'll still think they're unlikely because I think Gamefreak is done with the old regions. In fact, I think the only reason they created HGSS was because GSC were a huge success (way bigger than Hoenn was, for example) and the push for GSC remakes was much bigger than the nostalgia wave we're seeing with Hoenn right now. People wanted GSC remakes since before DP were released.
HG/SS was remade to bring Johto back into the circle of connection same reason FR/LG were made. As stated, only reason to remake them would be to update graphics and story as you can transfer all the Hoenn Pokemon to Gen 6 through Gen 5. Majority of Hoenn Pokemon are found in Gen 5 alone. Starters and Key Legends (Kyogre, Groudon, Rayquaza) are only found in Gen 4 which is an easy transfer to Gen 5.
  #1481    
Old February 6th, 2013, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerberus87 View Post
Does Hoenn even need remakes?
The ONLY significant question is whether or not Hoenn remakes would be profitable. GF is a for-profit company - if it'll be profitable, it's relatively safe to assume they'll do it. Your personal issues with the Hoenn games count for nothing in that decision.
  #1482    
Old February 6th, 2013, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XanderO View Post
HG/SS was remade to bring Johto back into the circle of connection same reason FR/LG were made. As stated, only reason to remake them would be to update graphics and story as you can transfer all the Hoenn Pokemon to Gen 6 through Gen 5. Majority of Hoenn Pokemon are found in Gen 5 alone. Starters and Key Legends (Kyogre, Groudon, Rayquaza) are only found in Gen 4 which is an easy transfer to Gen 5.
Was Johto itself needed into the 'connection circle' though? No it was not, especially considering we could get pretty much every Johto Poke easily(minus a very select few) in the GBA games. We can't even directly trade between every regions anyways so that goes to show that it's probably the least of our worries. There was no real reason for HGSS aside from updating the graphics/little parts of the story(which aren't really big reasons themselves) and of course, most importantly of all, the money to be made.

If we're talking looks wise, then Kanto is already up-to-date(before we go full 3D with X & Y) with the region itself being included in HGSS. Hoenn (itself) has yet to be caught up in this sense.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arlo View Post
The ONLY significant question is whether or not Hoenn remakes would be profitable. GF is a for-profit company - if it'll be profitable, it's relatively safe to assume they'll do it. Your personal issues with the Hoenn games count for nothing in that decision.
I agree for once. If HGSS can be made to make money for the most part, then why must RSE be shunned? As I mentioned before, just because we can catch every poke and there is no real reason did not stop HGSS being made.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SaniOKh View Post
Long story short, I as always, was trying to tell people that RSE remakes were never properly announced, and with Ruby and Sapphire being compatible by proxy with the current Gen (plus, being at the very beginning of the Pokémon timeline, thus not really contemporary with the current Gen, as was the case with the other remakes) , they aren't as likely to happen as people think... basically the same theory I've expressed a few pages back on this very topic.
I would go on to point out one thing that's wrong in that paragraph, but it would only lead to the chaos that is timeline talk, so I'll refrain from it.
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  #1483    
Old February 6th, 2013, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C Payne View Post
Was Johto itself needed into the 'connection circle' though? No it was not, especially considering we could get pretty much every Johto Poke easily(minus a very select few) in the GBA games. We can't even directly trade between every regions anyways so that goes to show that it's probably the least of our worries. There was no real reason for HGSS aside from updating the graphics/little parts of the story(which aren't really big reasons themselves) and of course, most importantly of all, the money to be made.

If we're talking looks wise, then Kanto is already up-to-date(before we go full 3D with X & Y) with the region itself being included in HGSS. Hoenn (itself) has yet to be caught up in this sense.
Only real Kanto is from the Gen 1 Games. Gen 2's Kanto is a shadow of the former form. As for Gen 2 Pokemon. Only Ho-oh and Lugia were unavailable in Gen 3 main games. The two box legends of Gold/Silver. Not a real enough reason to make two whole games, but it was done and they were added into distribution through main games.

Its game was removed from the circle, that alone is enough for them to add it back in since their whole shtick is connecting games with others.
  #1484    
Old February 6th, 2013, 06:59 PM
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I get what you are trying to say, although I was more pointing out that just because a lot of people see no need for Gen III games to be made doesn't mean that they couldn't be. HGSS were just as pointless in that sense.

If you're going the whole region connection route, that can be used for both sides. With the Dsi and onward lacking a GBA slot and the older versions being discontinued, in a way Hoenn(and Kanto, as the stand alone original like you mentioned) have lost their connectivity. That would also keep remakes relevant when you think about it.

Btw, Lugia and Ho-oh were both available in Gen III, remember the Naval Rock event? If not there, you could always trade Ho-oh from Colosseum and Lugia from XD(after purifying the latter) which of course didn't require events. By normal means or not, they were still available.
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  #1485    
Old February 6th, 2013, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C Payne View Post
Btw, Lugia and Ho-oh were both available in Gen III, remember the Naval Rock event? If not there, you could always trade Ho-oh from Colosseum and Lugia from XD(after purifying the latter) which of course didn't require events. By normal means or not, they were still available.
To get to Naval Rock you had to attend an Event in New York (for americans as none others were done) to get the Event Ticket to go there. Lugia and Ho-oh were Event Pokemon in Gen 3 which treats them like Jiranchi and Deoxys. By that I mean they don't count for anything. You can get Ho-oh and Lugia easier and more efficiently in G/S/C/HG/SS as they are mandatory encounters. Any game that is not part of the main series does not count either as they do not effect any decision made by Gamefreak nor do they influence any of the Main Series games.

DSi was not a "New DS" but an Upgraded DS. Even if they were not compatible with GBA, the series they were born into were still compatible. DS and DSlite are compatible and by extension DSi and DSiXL are factored in with them in the larger view.

With the games moving to the 3DS we move back to the 50:50 chance as now there is a slight need for remakes, but the need to remake them is no where as bold as it was for Gens 1 and 2. Even if we get Gen 3 remakes, we'll get Gen 1 remakes since they were still on the same system meaning if one gets remade, they both have the same chance of being remade.

Just to mix things up as they have been, we may get one of each. With the new goal of "Evolving the Pokemon World" I don't believe we'll get any more remakes anytime soon. Unless they do a focus change from Evolving the games to something dealing with preserving or reliving the past.
  #1486    
Old February 6th, 2013, 11:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arlo View Post
The ONLY significant question is whether or not Hoenn remakes would be profitable. GF is a for-profit company - if it'll be profitable, it's relatively safe to assume they'll do it. Your personal issues with the Hoenn games count for nothing in that decision.
Considering Hoenn games had the weakest sales of the series, and a well-made entirely new game has possibly more chances of being successful, I don't think it's a given that remakes are profitable.

And don't bring the "GBA was the worst selling Nintendo handheld" card. The GBA was the Nintendo handheld with the shortest lifespan, of course it would sell less than for example the entire Game Boy line, which lasted eleven years, or the DS, counting the DS Phat to the DSi XL, and considering the DSi, despite lacking new games for the 2013 exercise, is still being updated. In fact the 3rd gen games were helped by the fact the old DS still had compatibility with GBA games and by the release of DP a lot of Pokémon were only available via Pal Park.

Quote:
Originally Posted by C Payne View Post
I get what you are trying to say, although I was more pointing out that just because a lot of people see no need for Gen III games to be made doesn't mean that they couldn't be. HGSS were just as pointless in that sense.

If you're going the whole region connection route, that can be used for both sides. With the Dsi and onward lacking a GBA slot and the older versions being discontinued, in a way Hoenn(and Kanto, as the stand alone original like you mentioned) have lost their connectivity. That would also keep remakes relevant when you think about it.

Btw, Lugia and Ho-oh were both available in Gen III, remember the Naval Rock event? If not there, you could always trade Ho-oh from Colosseum and Lugia from XD(after purifying the latter) which of course didn't require events. By normal means or not, they were still available.
The idea was to catch them on the DS only, not to mention the version mascots were never officially available in the handheld series apart from events which couldn't even be widely distributed because the GBA didn't have access to the internet. Meanwhile, Groudon/Kyogre/Rayquaza could be caught in HGSS and sent to BW.

So far there are two instances in the series where you need cross-gen trading to acquire all the Pokémon: from RBY to GSC (since GSC didn't have the RBY legends), and from DPPtHGSS to BW. The difference is that they're all within the same generation of console. They wouldn't support the GBA forever, because the GBA carts are huge compared to the DS and they could easily make all GBA games available in Virtual Console, so it was needed to make all Pokémon accessible within the DS only. And Hoenn fans who own only a DS can't complain, as the games feature most of the Hoenn Pokémon if not all of them (I think only Jirachi and Deoxys must be acquired through events).

Johto was a neglected region in the 3rd gen. You couldn't access most Pokémon without owning a Gamecube and having the console games. Only Emerald gave you the possibility of acquiring a Johto starter in the handheld series. Whereas in the DS, the Hoenn starters could be acquired in HGSS with no major requirement, and all starters are available in 5th gen through Dream World events.
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Last edited by Cerberus87; February 6th, 2013 at 11:22 PM.
  #1487    
Old February 7th, 2013, 01:06 AM
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Well this is getting fun again.


Quote:
Originally Posted by XanderO View Post
To get to Naval Rock you had to attend an Event in New York (for americans as none others were done) to get the Event Ticket to go there. Lugia and Ho-oh were Event Pokemon in Gen 3 which treats them like Jiranchi and Deoxys. By that I mean they don't count for anything. You can get Ho-oh and Lugia easier and more efficiently in G/S/C/HG/SS as they are mandatory encounters. Any game that is not part of the main series does not count either as they do not effect any decision made by Gamefreak nor do they influence any of the Main Series games.

DSi was not a "New DS" but an Upgraded DS. Even if they were not compatible with GBA, the series they were born into were still compatible. DS and DSlite are compatible and by extension DSi and DSiXL are factored in with them in the larger view.

With the games moving to the 3DS we move back to the 50:50 chance as now there is a slight need for remakes, but the need to remake them is no where as bold as it was for Gens 1 and 2. Even if we get Gen 3 remakes, we'll get Gen 1 remakes since they were still on the same system meaning if one gets remade, they both have the same chance of being remade.

Just to mix things up as they have been, we may get one of each. With the new goal of "Evolving the Pokemon World" I don't believe we'll get any more remakes anytime soon. Unless they do a focus change from Evolving the games to something dealing with preserving or reliving the past.
Ok, so Lugia and Ho-oh don't count because they were treated like event Pokemon then, but in the last post you were implying this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by XanderO View Post
As for Gen 2 Pokemon. Only Ho-oh and Lugia were unavailable in Gen 3 main games. The two box legends of Gold/Silver. Not a real enough reason to make two whole games, but it was done and they were added into distribution through main games.
Sounds like a slight contradiction on that part. Did they or did they not play a role, if even super minor?

Regardless of the fact that they were just that, upgrades, that can't just be a reason to ignore that the later redesigns of the DS and onward dropped the GBA slot and therefore the connectivity of the GBA games(and Hoenn/Kanto if you want to get picky). I'm not even sure how we got on this subject because it's not really going to go anywhere because, even now, we don't have direct connection between all regions and probably never will have it.

Other than FrLg(because of them not adding every Pokemon to Hoenn), we didn't need anymore remakes anyways, HGSS obviously included as it is the only other set to date. Johto did not have a real reason to be connected itself with every Poke available from both sets of Gen III games(minus the said few legendaries, although the concept back then only complicated things anyways because of the lack of WiFi),a bigger part than the regions themselves. If we're going that whole connecting regions route, why don't they just prolong every gen so that they can keep all regions up-to-date and directly compatible with every other one? As I mentioned above, we still don't have direct connection between them all anyways. If they remade Gen I also then so be it, no complaints there personally.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerberus87 View Post
Considering Hoenn games had the weakest sales of the series, and a well-made entirely new game has possibly more chances of being successful, I don't think it's a given that remakes are profitable.

And don't bring the "GBA was the worst selling Nintendo handheld" card. The GBA was the Nintendo handheld with the shortest lifespan, of course it would sell less than for example the entire Game Boy line, which lasted eleven years, or the DS, counting the DS Phat to the DSi XL, and considering the DSi, despite lacking new games for the 2013 exercise, is still being updated. In fact the 3rd gen games were helped by the fact the old DS still had compatibility with GBA games and by the release of DP a lot of Pokémon were only available via Pal Park.
Weakest sales or not, you can't ignore that they were the top selling games on the GBA. On top of that, they could take this opportunity to improve what was flawed in the original games and to see if they can make the region more appealing in general(I disagree and loved them, despite the flaws, but apparently the masses is made to believe the games sucked). How good they were is subjective anyways and there are plenty more people who haven't played the originals who may give them a go if remade, among well everyone else. Pokemon has been proven to be a system seller regardless, which is something that alone makes a statement.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerberus87 View Post
The idea was to catch them on the DS only, not to mention the version mascots were never officially available in the handheld series apart from events which couldn't even be widely distributed because the GBA didn't have access to the internet. Meanwhile, Groudon/Kyogre/Rayquaza could be caught in HGSS and sent to BW.

So far there are two instances in the series where you need cross-gen trading to acquire all the Pokémon: from RBY to GSC (since GSC didn't have the RBY legends), and from DPPtHGSS to BW. The difference is that they're all within the same generation of console. They wouldn't support the GBA forever, because the GBA carts are huge compared to the DS and they could easily make all GBA games available in Virtual Console, so it was needed to make all Pokémon accessible within the DS only. And Hoenn fans who own only a DS can't complain, as the games feature most of the Hoenn Pokémon if not all of them (I think only Jirachi and Deoxys must be acquired through events).

Johto was a neglected region in the 3rd gen. You couldn't access most Pokémon without owning a Gamecube and having the console games. Only Emerald gave you the possibility of acquiring a Johto starter in the handheld series. Whereas in the DS, the Hoenn starters could be acquired in HGSS with no major requirement, and all starters are available in 5th gen through Dream World events.
Going by Xander's previous statement(nothing personal), since the Dsi and other revisions are still in the DS line, then that makes all of them relevant which, due to the slot on the older models, still makes the GBA games relevant. Furthering that, as has been mentioned numerous times, Johto pokes were readily available in Gen III and could be transferred to Gen IV games as well, which means they were all available for the DS, so in that sense HGSS was not needed other than to see Johto all 'prettied' up.

Looking at that, why is everyone so harsh on Hoenn and act as if the region should just fade into oblivion? Why can it not get the all 'prettied' up treatment like Johto, another region which had no real reason to be remade in itself? Hell, throw in Kanto as well if you must with it being constantly added in as relevant too.
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Last edited by C Payne; February 7th, 2013 at 01:33 AM.
  #1488    
Old February 7th, 2013, 05:11 AM
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Seriously, Hoenn should, and likely is getting a remake. It might not have happened this gen, but it will now. Its the one region in the entire series that cannot be accessed on the 3DS, and that alone merits a revisit. Not to mention, Gen 5 was destined to be short, so whatever people say about it not being in gen 5 means its not happening, is null and void in my eyes.
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  #1489    
Old February 7th, 2013, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by C Payne View Post
Well this is getting fun again.




Ok, so Lugia and Ho-oh don't count because they were treated like event Pokemon then, but in the last post you were implying this:



Sounds like a slight contradiction on that part. Did they or did they not play a role, if even super minor?
Event Pokemon have never been counted. Events aren't readily available in their games and don't exist in the games until you receive the event items to get them. Lugia and Ho-oh were not available in Generation 3 outside of events that play no part in the major or minor parts of the game at all. Since they are not readily available in the games like other legend that cross generation are, then they were not counted.


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Originally Posted by C Payne View Post
Regardless of the fact that they were just that, upgrades, that can't just be a reason to ignore that the later redesigns of the DS and onward dropped the GBA slot and therefore the connectivity of the GBA games(and Hoenn/Kanto if you want to get picky). I'm not even sure how we got on this subject because it's not really going to go anywhere because, even now, we don't have direct connection between all regions and probably never will have it.

Other than FrLg(because of them not adding every Pokemon to Hoenn), we didn't need anymore remakes anyways, HGSS obviously included as it is the only other set to date. Johto did not have a real reason to be connected itself with every Poke available from both sets of Gen III games(minus the said few legendaries, although the concept back then only complicated things anyways because of the lack of WiFi),a bigger part than the regions themselves. If we're going that whole connecting regions route, why don't they just prolong every gen so that they can keep all regions up-to-date and directly compatible with every other one? As I mentioned above, we still don't have direct connection between them all anyways. If they remade Gen I also then so be it, no complaints there personally.
There are direct connetions between the five regions. You can transfer Hoenn and Kanto to Sinnoh and Johto and then from Sinnoh and Johto to Unova. DSi series are still part of the main DS series and are seen that way by the mother company. All of the DS generations were made for the Original DS. They kept DS and DSlite in mind when making them do those two shall remain relevant to both Generations 4 and 5. They could have locked Generation 5 to the DSi but they didn't. They kept them DS related so that they could receive connections with Generation 3.




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Weakest sales or not, you can't ignore that they were the top selling games on the GBA. On top of that, they could take this opportunity to improve what was flawed in the original games and to see if they can make the region more appealing in general(I disagree and loved them, despite the flaws, but apparently the masses is made to believe the games sucked). How good they were is subjective anyways and there are plenty more people who haven't played the originals who may give them a go if remade, among well everyone else. Pokemon has been proven to be a system seller regardless, which is something that alone makes a statement.
Actually based on sales, since all newer games have greatly surpassed R/S in sales, there isn't much Profit to be gained by updating the games based on side by side comparisons. That alone is enough reason for them not to make the games as it wouldn't balance out the potential cost of the games themselves. If we are going with the money game, if they cannot project a decent sales quota, then there isn't a point in making the games. Based on numbers, I'd say that there isn't any reason to make them as estimated sales for them would be too low.


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Going by Xander's previous statement(nothing personal), since the Dsi and other revisions are still in the DS line, then that makes all of them relevant which, due to the slot on the older models, still makes the GBA games relevant. Furthering that, as has been mentioned numerous times, Johto pokes were readily available in Gen III and could be transferred to Gen IV games as well, which means they were all available for the DS, so in that sense HGSS was not needed other than to see Johto all 'prettied' up.

Looking at that, why is everyone so harsh on Hoenn and act as if the region should just fade into oblivion? Why can it not get the all 'prettied' up treatment like Johto, another region which had no real reason to be remade in itself? Hell, throw in Kanto as well if you must with it being constantly added in as relevant too.
Lugia and Ho-oh still weren't readily available in the main series games without hacking or attending an event that very few could attend. Those two being the core legend for Gold and Silver were enough of a reason to make and update the games outside of the fact that Gold and Silver were the only games that couldn't link up with current game titles at that time.

A feature that R/S still hasn't achieved yet. When we get word of the next handheld series in two or so years, then we'll get due report of the remakes, considering they want to risk not making much money seeing as the remakes don't sell as well as the originals and with the already low sales quota of Generation 3, they stand to lose more than gain.
  #1490    
Old February 7th, 2013, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by XanderO View Post
Event Pokemon have never been counted. Events aren't readily available in their games and don't exist in the games until you receive the event items to get them. Lugia and Ho-oh were not available in Generation 3 outside of events that play no part in the major or minor parts of the game at all. Since they are not readily available in the games like other legend that cross generation are, then they were not counted.
I'm not saying they were counted but you kept swapping back and forth as to whether or not Lugia and Ho-oh meant something. Even then, two Pokemon, legendary or otherwise, are not enough reason to remake a whole (pretty decently sized) region. They could have easily made them available by normal means in the games, perhaps somewhere deep in the regularly accessible Sevii Islands or something similar.



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Originally Posted by XanderO View Post
There are direct connetions between the five regions. You can transfer Hoenn and Kanto to Sinnoh and Johto and then from Sinnoh and Johto to Unova. DSi series are still part of the main DS series and are seen that way by the mother company. All of the DS generations were made for the Original DS. They kept DS and DSlite in mind when making them do those two shall remain relevant to both Generations 4 and 5. They could have locked Generation 5 to the DSi but they didn't. They kept them DS related so that they could receive connections with Generation 3.
I'm not talking about a linear connection.

While we likely will be able to transfer from Gen V to Gen VI, no doubt there won't be some huge connection(battling, etc) between the two and this will only make the connection with Hoenn even more tedious than it already is. With Hoenn Pokes being mostly available in the DS era as well, as everyone is using that as relevant, that is only driving the connection to the region itself further away. Going even further, with the GBA slot gone and the DS series to be discontinued altogether in the not too distant future, that will be the final blow to real Hoenn connectivity(and Kanto, once again if you're picky, even though it is available in HGSS).

If that isn't enough for you, not including Kanto(just using it's appearance in HGSS as somewhat relevant in this point) and the 3DS being backwards compatible with DS games, Hoenn is the only region completely inaccessible on the 3DS.


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Actually based on sales, since all newer games have greatly surpassed R/S in sales, there isn't much Profit to be gained by updating the games based on side by side comparisons. That alone is enough reason for them not to make the games as it wouldn't balance out the potential cost of the games themselves. If we are going with the money game, if they cannot project a decent sales quota, then there isn't a point in making the games. Based on numbers, I'd say that there isn't any reason to make them as estimated sales for them would be too low.
Diamond and Pearl didn't sell some mega amount more though, it looks like they pretty much just picked back up the sales. What exactly contributed to the low sales of RSE(not a real question directed at you)? They were far from bad, something that being the best sellers on the GBA has a right to tell. Is it because of the lost connection from the first 2 gens and making you practically start over? How well do you think sales would have been if that connection was able to be put into place? If the region itself was as bad as people are kidding themselves to make it out to be, how could they make it more appealing? There are plenty of questions to think over.

To go along with , we also have people newer to the series who have never played the originals and would have a go if they were remade in this newer age, as a fresh adventure. Along with everyone wanting to revisit the region in a new light, surely this could be the opportunity to take advantage and make the most of that.


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Originally Posted by XanderO View Post
Lugia and Ho-oh still weren't readily available in the main series games without hacking or attending an event that very few could attend. Those two being the core legend for Gold and Silver were enough of a reason to make and update the games outside of the fact that Gold and Silver were the only games that couldn't link up with current game titles at that time.

A feature that R/S still hasn't achieved yet. When we get word of the next handheld series in two or so years, then we'll get due report of the remakes, considering they want to risk not making much money seeing as the remakes don't sell as well as the originals and with the already low sales quota of Generation 3, they stand to lose more than gain.
All they had to do was make the two legends available in the games somehow then, perhaps deep somewhere in the Sevii Islands that was actually accessible without an event(even though they were could still be easily obtained if you weren't someone who refused to play spin offs). They sure as hell didn't mind doing that to Groudon and Kyogre. If Johto Pokes were absent for the most part, it would've made sense; Two Pokemon, legendaries or not, is not a real reason to remake two whole (big) games though.

If the whole sales reason is behind why they won't remake the games(using your last statement here), then what exactly is happening in two years that will change that? Nothing. Gen III sales, being long gone, will not magically spring up to others by then enough to change there minds if that is the real reason; They'd still be risking money.
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  #1491    
Old February 11th, 2013, 09:36 AM
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I think the reason they decided to delay Hoenn is because they didn't want two remakes in one console, plus they proably thought what better way to honor Hoenn than to give it a whole new look in real 3D which would proably gain more interest in the remakes than if they were on the normal DS.
Also Hoenn's games were some of the top selling games in a console that didn't sell very well. Also as time goes by more people will proably desire a Hoenn remake, even some who don't want one now. Also Hoenn is the only region yet to be rendered in 3D (if they do remake it on the 3Ds it'll be some nice irony getting real 3D unlike the other four regions we know the names of), and lacks wi-fi features, night and day, and several other things which would make the remakes better.
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Old February 27th, 2013, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C Payne View Post
Diamond and Pearl didn't sell some mega amount more though, it looks like they pretty much just picked back up the sales. What exactly contributed to the low sales of RSE(not a real question directed at you)? They were far from bad, something that being the best sellers on the GBA has a right to tell. Is it because of the lost connection from the first 2 gens and making you practically start over? How well do you think sales would have been if that connection was able to be put into place? If the region itself was as bad as people are kidding themselves to make it out to be, how could they make it more appealing? There are plenty of questions to think over.

To go along with , we also have people newer to the series who have never played the originals and would have a go if they were remade in this newer age, as a fresh adventure. Along with everyone wanting to revisit the region in a new light, surely this could be the opportunity to take advantage and make the most of that.



If the whole sales reason is behind why they won't remake the games(using your last statement here), then what exactly is happening in two years that will change that? Nothing. Gen III sales, being long gone, will not magically spring up to others by then enough to change there minds if that is the real reason; They'd still be risking money.
And then there are those of us who were able to borrow a sibling's copy of Ruby, Sapphire, or Emerald until we found ourselves gaining access to our own Pokémon game or games, thus rendering our ability to play the former null and void. For example, my brother let me borrow Sapphire since he also had Ruby until I received FireRed (without the Wireless Adapter, unfortunately) for one of my birthdays. My sister then acquired Sapphire from this brother, preventing me from playing it again. This set circumstances happens to drive me to want RSE remakes as part of the fact that I grew up with the remade Pokémon games instead of the originals. I was able to get Diamond, though…(thoughts fast forward to what might happen to this cartridge when the Sinnoh remakes come out.)
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  #1493    
Old February 28th, 2013, 03:21 PM
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If there'll be remakes of the Hoenn region, I think they will be launched in 2015, or later.

I always like the remakes because of the possibility of capturing every legendary, but a major part of Hoenn Pokémons are available in the current generation, so I will only play for the sake of seeing Hoenn in 3D with new mechanics.
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  #1494    
Old March 21st, 2013, 01:48 PM
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Okay everyone, what is some things you would want to see put into a remake of Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald that was from the original game? It can be anything from the original games! I'll start with some:

Want to See:

*Invisible Pokemon. It might have just been me but I actually liked the idea of having invisible Kecleon playing around and fighting them (mainly because I actually liked Kecleon XD ).
*Space Center Rocket Launching. I know it doesn't have any big event (now) but I would still like to have it (and actually be able to watch at least one).
*Fishing on Pokemon. Something I liked to do for Feebas hunting so I hope it comes back.
*Clouds reflecting on water. I actually loved the look of the clouds reflecting on the water and would absolutely love to see it again.
*Groudon/Kyogre Hunting. I liked to look around for the two legendary pokemon in Emerald and I hope it stays.

Don't Want to See:

*Team Aqua/Magma costumes. I'm pretty sure they didn't change them for Team Rocket in FR/LG/HG/SS but I really hope they update the look of their costumes. I feel like an idiot having to fight people who are dressed like pirates or look like they are wearing leg warmers (I know it is suppose to signify the whole water/land thing but come on, it looks silly)
*Pokemon Battle Tents. I know they were there to replace the contest (and to help people learn about the frontier) but I didn't really like them because you didn't really get anything and you could just do the frontier at the end.
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  #1495    
Old March 21st, 2013, 03:22 PM
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Have you played any games past Hoenn? You can fish on top of a surfing Pokémon in every DS game.

Why not remake Orre instead? Orre got two games, but it was in a fail console and didn't have a main series treatment.
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  #1496    
Old March 21st, 2013, 06:06 PM
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Want: Nothing.

Don't want: Everything.

Have you played any games past Hoenn? You can fish on top of a surfing Pokémon in every DS game.

Why not remake Orre instead? Orre got two games, but it was in a fail console and didn't have a main series treatment.
I have played games past Hoenn but I was just saying I would like for that to stay.

As for Orre, I think you pretty much answered your own question.
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  #1497    
Old March 21st, 2013, 06:32 PM
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Merged with the existing thread on the matter...hopefully it doesn't get too hectic like it usually does. I wish more people would talk about what they want/don't want in the remake instead of debating the damn timeline. lol
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Old March 21st, 2013, 10:46 PM
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Merged with the existing thread on the matter...hopefully it doesn't get too hectic like it usually does. I wish more people would talk about what they want/don't want in the remake instead of debating the damn timeline. lol
Well I don't want a remake, because knowing Gamefreak they'll make it with all the flaws RSE had, which was the case with FRLG and to a lesser extent HGSS.

One thing that weighs heavily against RSE remakes, though, is that the mechanics of the game are mostly unchanged from RSE to B2W2. For the most part it would be playing the same game as the original. The only major addition was the physical/special split in DPPt, but would that by itself warrant an RSE remake? I don't think so. They may introduce a major mechanic overhaul in gen 6 which would even block compatibility with gen 5 (incredibly unlikely), but who knows.
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  #1499    
Old March 21st, 2013, 11:44 PM
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Well I don't want a remake, because knowing Gamefreak they'll make it with all the flaws RSE had, which was the case with FRLG and to a lesser extent HGSS.
What do you count as flaws though? The only one I can really think of was the dying battery but I doubt that could ever happen on a ds/3ds. Unless you're just talking about something you personally dislike about the game, I see no reason for them to NOT make it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerberus87 View Post
One thing that weighs heavily against RSE remakes, though, is that the mechanics of the game are mostly unchanged from RSE to B2W2. For the most part it would be playing the same game as the original. The only major addition was the physical/special split in DPPt, but would that by itself warrant an RSE remake? I don't think so. They may introduce a major mechanic overhaul in gen 6 which would even block compatibility with gen 5 (incredibly unlikely), but who knows
Day/Night system, evolution in certain areas, hidden abilities (plus extra abilities), more attacks (and pokemon), physical/special split (that you mentioned), etc. I'm pretty sure you get the picture. With all these extra mechanics added to the game, I'm pretty sure it will be worth a play through at least. Plus, both remakes have gained extra places to go and things to do so I doubt they would just skip over it for this game, which means you would not be "playing the same game as the original". You're skipping over quite a bit that has been added.
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  #1500    
Old March 22nd, 2013, 12:33 AM
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What do you count as flaws though? The only one I can really think of was the dying battery but I doubt that could ever happen on a ds/3ds. Unless you're just talking about something you personally dislike about the game, I see no reason for them to NOT make it.
My main gripe with remakes is the Pokémon rosters of the NPCs. All games below 4th gen had pretty bad rosters for a few characters and IMO the Hoenn Elite Four was the absolute worst in the series next to RBY's E4.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joshbl56 View Post
Day/Night system, evolution in certain areas, hidden abilities (plus extra abilities), more attacks (and pokemon), physical/special split (that you mentioned), etc. I'm pretty sure you get the picture. With all these extra mechanics added to the game, I'm pretty sure it will be worth a play through at least. Plus, both remakes have gained extra places to go and things to do so I doubt they would just skip over it for this game, which means you would not be "playing the same game as the original". You're skipping over quite a bit that has been added.
Since I mentioned mechanics, let's go.

Day/Night system: cosmetic thing. Not featuring it in RSE was a developer's decision (and, IMO, mistake).

Evolution in certain areas: Impractical with Hoenn's map. HGSS didn't feature it anyway.

Hidden abilities (plus extra abilities), more attacks (and pokemon): That's content, not mechanics. Save for the physical/special split, and a few features that were subsequently added to the series, the game as of now plays absolutely the same as it did upon RS's release. The jump from RBY to FRLG is much bigger than the difference between RSE and B2W2.

The game wouldn't have more Pokémon either since the remakes usually feature the same regional dex as the originals. Only exception was in HGSS where you could get a few Pokémon that evolved when leveling up with a move learned, like Piloswine and Tangela. All additions would be made to the postgame, and, believe me, there's a heck of a lot they would need to add because Hoenn's postgame is non-existant outside of the Battle Frontier.

Furthermore, I don't think GF feels RSE is outdated enough. They're still using sound effects introduced in RS. The minisprites in the Pokémon summary screen are all from RS (at least, the ones from the 386 first Pokémon). The core mechanics of the game are from RS. Unless there's something very significant coming around with XY, we won't see further remakes, be it of RSE, of DPPt or any other game.
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