Go Back   The PokéCommunity Forums > Creative Discussions > Game Development
Reload this Page [Discussion] Maximum moves based on level

Notices
For all updates, view the main page.

Game Development Your number one stop for anything related to creating games (except ROM hacks). You can even make your own!



Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1    
Old February 20th, 2013 (10:38 PM).
ISNorden's Avatar
ISNorden ISNorden is offline
Teddiursa
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Gender: Female
Nature: Gentle
Posts: 126
Send a message via Yahoo to ISNorden
How many of you have earned a case full of awesome TMs and HMs, but feel terrible about having everyone on your team limited to four moves each? *frustrated sigh* Although I lack the technical skill to hack the game myself, I'd love to see a hack that increases the size of a Pokémon's move-pool based on its relative power. At first, I thought of linking the maximum to evolutionary stages--but not all Pokémon evolve, or have the same number of stages. Don't worry, I'm not asking for 100th-level Pikachu knowing more moves than a version mascot...just a bit more wiggle room in learning. If an increased maximum could be hacked in, what would you consider a reasonable formula for the number of extra moves?
__________________
Ingeborg S. Nordén

" Coming this fall to Jubilife TV: Lost Beyond Space!"
Reply With Quote
  #2    
Old February 21st, 2013 (08:30 PM).
BlazingLink's Avatar
BlazingLink BlazingLink is offline
Sergeant Serious
Gold Tier
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Rhode Island, USA
Age: 18
Gender: Male
Nature: Modest
Posts: 139
I assume this is referring to Pokemon Hacking, in which case this is the wrong section. The section right above Game Development should be the Emulating Section.
__________________


Reply With Quote
  #3    
Old February 21st, 2013 (09:41 PM).
ISNorden's Avatar
ISNorden ISNorden is offline
Teddiursa
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Gender: Female
Nature: Gentle
Posts: 126
Send a message via Yahoo to ISNorden
Ooops...I wasn't sure where this hack idea should go, since I'm relatively new to the forums. Could you please move my post if you're an admin, or have one of them move it? Many thanks!
__________________
Ingeborg S. Nordén

" Coming this fall to Jubilife TV: Lost Beyond Space!"
Reply With Quote
  #4    
Old February 22nd, 2013 (12:59 AM).
Arma's Avatar
Arma Arma is offline
Actually not mad at all
Silver Tier
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: The Hague
Age: 22
Gender: Male
Nature: Jolly
Posts: 1,002
Too bad this question was meant for rom hacking, it's a nice topic to discuss about XD.

Anyway, I think adding additional moveslots would severly overpower some pokes, stallers would be anle to use confuse ray, toxic, protect, double team and substitute. It would be nice to implement, but it would take a lot of work to balance out. Offensive pokemon with a wide movepool would be able to hit pretty much everything for super effective damage.

Maybe you should give every poke an additional moveslot every 20levels, startimg from lvl 30.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #5    
Old February 22nd, 2013 (04:20 AM).
Elaitenstile's Avatar
Elaitenstile Elaitenstile is offline
I am legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,908
Send a message via Skype™ to Elaitenstile
(Yeah I know this is gonna be moved soon but still)

★Every Pokémon should have a "Capacity" attribute.
★They could be minimum 3 and max 6.
★They'd define how many moves It'd have.
★Pokémon's Capacity vary in their evolutions (higher evo means higher Capacity), Base Status, level and special additions.
★There should be some kind of a "Capacity Up" like HP Up etc. which will raise Capacity by one and maximum can be used only 2 times.
★Certain mega-moves (V-Create, Hydro Cannon etc.) would take two Capacity.

Those are some creative suggestions.
__________________
~
Reply With Quote
  #6    
Old February 22nd, 2013 (10:29 AM).
Maruno's Avatar
Maruno Maruno is offline
Lead Dev of Pokémon Essentials
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: England
Posts: 4,128
I left this thread here because it was an interesting discussion point. Nothing about it is inherently related to ROM hacking, so I saw no reason to move it.

In future, if you see a thread you think is in the wrong place, just report it and don't post about it (BlazingLink). Posting just to tell someone about the rules is called mini-modding, and is considered spam - it is never on-topic.



Do you think any advantage that a Pokémon might gain through knowing 5 or 6 moves at once would/could be cancelled out by the opposing Pokémon being able to know that many moves as well?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #7    
Old February 22nd, 2013 (10:35 AM).
Tigerbite's Avatar
Tigerbite Tigerbite is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 17
Haha, I just made another topic about this in the essentials forum, because I wasn't sure what would happen to this post. It would greatly benefit me in my future project idea, but it also isn't pokemon related, just uses a lot of the same things (capturing monsters, 6v6 style fighting, etc.) It's just a great foundation to make a new and exciting game. I just have absolutely no way on how to about doing it. All I do know it the graphics would definitely have to be changed.
Reply With Quote
  #8    
Old February 22nd, 2013 (10:53 AM).
BlazingLink's Avatar
BlazingLink BlazingLink is offline
Sergeant Serious
Gold Tier
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Rhode Island, USA
Age: 18
Gender: Male
Nature: Modest
Posts: 139
Quote originally posted by Maruno:

In future, if you see a thread you think is in the wrong place, just report it and don't post about it (BlazingLink). Posting just to tell someone about the rules is called mini-modding, and is considered spam - it is never on-topic.
Will do in the future, Maruno.

It is an interesting topic though, too. A level 50 having like 5 moves would be really cool, but it'd be kinda tricky to implement. Pokemon generally seems balanced around 4 moves, but with some twisting, you can make it work I guess.
__________________


Reply With Quote
  #9    
Old February 22nd, 2013 (07:48 PM).
Elaitenstile's Avatar
Elaitenstile Elaitenstile is offline
I am legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,908
Send a message via Skype™ to Elaitenstile
Yeah, they do seem balanced that way, but just wonder, isn't always what we thought that our Pokémon don't have enough space to learn counter-moves when we give stuff like Giga Impact or Frenzy Plant? And maybe even signature moves!

★ Take the example of Cynthia. Her Garchomp has six to seven moves like Dragon Rush, Dragon Claw, Dig, Brick Break, Giga Impact, Draco Meteor etc.

I don't think that we ever thought that that many moves would make her extremely strong, since she's already extremely strong anyway. Her Garchomp might have been about Level 90, and I think her Garchomp really did deserve more than a lousy four moves.

I already told my ideas about Capacity in my last post. Maybe one day Essentials would have it too!
__________________
~
Reply With Quote
  #10    
Old February 22nd, 2013 (08:01 PM).
Derxwna Kapsyla's Avatar
Derxwna Kapsyla Derxwna Kapsyla is offline
X-Class Project, Derxwna, #003
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Margate, FL
Age: 22
Gender: Male
Nature: Lax
Posts: 287
I've glanced about this thread, and it does look interesting. This is one of those features that people would love to see in a Pokemon game, the inclusion of more than 4 moves.
I personally had my own idea for it - a maximum of 6 moves, but instead of being able to use them all at once, it'd be part of a system where when you deplete the pp of two of your own moves, those two move slots open up for you to use. This could be handy in a battle that's been going on for a while, or a gauntlet of trainers with no healing in between. It could also be used as backup for when your 5 PP moves run out.
__________________
Development Blog:
For more information future news and updates to any projects, the following blogs are where I post information. You can usually hit me with a message there when it comes to bug reports or feedback, or general conversation about something.
Game Projects:
In Progress:
Reply With Quote
  #11    
Old February 23rd, 2013 (12:50 AM).
ISNorden's Avatar
ISNorden ISNorden is offline
Teddiursa
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Gender: Female
Nature: Gentle
Posts: 126
Send a message via Yahoo to ISNorden
Good discussion and good points all round; I personally like the suggestion of adding a Capacity stat that would define the maximum number of learnable moves. A range of 3-6 sounds reasonable, covering everything from Level 1 starters to the Elite Four's teams. Cap Up items should be reserved for mission rewards or hard-to-find hidden objects, perhaps only once or twice per game. If adding this new mechanic is possible, I'd be glad to play-test fan games that used it.
__________________
Ingeborg S. Nordén

" Coming this fall to Jubilife TV: Lost Beyond Space!"
Reply With Quote
  #12    
Old February 23rd, 2013 (05:25 AM).
Maruno's Avatar
Maruno Maruno is offline
Lead Dev of Pokémon Essentials
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: England
Posts: 4,128
The idea is simple enough, but balancing would be the real issue. You can't simply change the 4 move limit and expect to have the same game "but better".

Perhaps it could be balanced by restricting the available moves (compared to what a Pokémon could currently learn). The simplest option would be reducing the number of compatible TMs, especially for moves apparently against the Pokémon's type/nature (Gyarados learning Flamethrower? Yeah, no). The potential for wider coverage would be countered by less possible coverage.

There are other options too, such as giving each species one or more mana levels which replace PP, or "levelling-up" one move into another (e.g. Bubble into Bubblebeam) tech-tree-style. However, these are all bigger changes to a game than just changing the move number cap, even if you can figure out a way to auto-calculate the masses of new values introduced by one of these schemes. Even this single tweak requires its own set of values (at what levels is the level cap a certain value?) which you'd also need to balance somehow anyway.

In short, I feel that changing the cap on known moves is just one part of a larger change, and probably shouldn't be done by itself unless you really know what you're doing.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #13    
Old February 23rd, 2013 (09:28 AM).
Arma's Avatar
Arma Arma is offline
Actually not mad at all
Silver Tier
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: The Hague
Age: 22
Gender: Male
Nature: Jolly
Posts: 1,002
A simpler way to achieve this (in terms of balancing that is), is to give the pokemon a Pokemon a higher capacity for moves that can be learned, but allow no more than 4 different moves to be used in a battle. The moves you have selected will reset upon switching out.

Another way is to assign values to moves. These values will represent the "difficulty" of the move to learn. The amount of moves a Pokemon is able to learn is also determined by its capacity. The sum of all values of moves must be smaller than the capacity of the Pokemon. Capacity could increase upon leveling or using items etc.

I've been thinking about a way to put leveling and customizing moves in my game, but I really wouldn't know where to start from when it comes down to programming it... XD
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #14    
Old February 23rd, 2013 (09:42 AM).
Maruno's Avatar
Maruno Maruno is offline
Lead Dev of Pokémon Essentials
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: England
Posts: 4,128
Quote originally posted by elarmasecreta:
I've been thinking about a way to put leveling and customizing moves in my game, but I really wouldn't know where to start from when it comes down to programming it... XD
PP Up "customises" a move by tweaking its total PP. There's a start.

Anything else depends greatly on what exactly you want to do.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #15    
Old February 23rd, 2013 (11:44 AM).
TBM_Christopher's Avatar
TBM_Christopher TBM_Christopher is offline
Notoriously Overscoped
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Lincoln, NE
Age: 21
Gender: Male
Nature: Quiet
Posts: 279
One way that could offer some balance would be to initially allow use of any move the Pokemon has learned, but once that move is used, it counts to a limit of 4 selected moves for the rest of the battle, even if switched. (Some edge cases - Choice items could reduce this limit to 1 immediately, and Ditto/Mew could learn any TM, and would copy a pokemon's learnset up to its level plus the TMs, but not anything the opponent had taught the Pokemon artificially)
__________________

Currently working on UNITE. Will create a thread when a playable demo is out.
If you're wondering where I've been, don't worry about it too much. I'm doing some serious transitioning in my life in terms of my personal projects and education.
Reply With Quote
  #16    
Old February 23rd, 2013 (01:46 PM).
FL's Avatar
FL FL is offline
Pokémon Island Creator
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,428
I love to play a game when the pokémon have 6 moves, these things makes the fangames more unique!

Those are some creative suggestions.[/COLOR][/FONT][/QUOTE]

Quote originally posted by Maruno:
The idea is simple enough, but balancing would be the real issue. You can't simply change the 4 move limit and expect to have the same game "but better".

Perhaps it could be balanced by restricting the available moves (compared to what a Pokémon could currently learn). The simplest option would be reducing the number of compatible TMs, especially for moves apparently against the Pokémon's type/nature (Gyarados learning Flamethrower? Yeah, no). The potential for wider coverage would be countered by less possible coverage.
A good number of TM (to a bigger number of pokémon can fill the 6 move limit) and/or making these TMs very rare are good things to balance the game.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #17    
Old February 24th, 2013 (08:53 AM).
KingCharizard's Avatar
KingCharizard KingCharizard is offline
C++ Developer Extraordinaire
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Pennsylvania
Age: 26
Gender: Male
Nature: Bold
Posts: 1,245
Quote originally posted by Maruno:
I left this thread here because it was an interesting discussion point. Nothing about it is inherently related to ROM hacking, so I saw no reason to move it.

In future, if you see a thread you think is in the wrong place, just report it and don't post about it (BlazingLink). Posting just to tell someone about the rules is called mini-modding, and is considered spam - it is never on-topic.



Do you think any advantage that a Pokémon might gain through knowing 5 or 6 moves at once would/could be cancelled out by the opposing Pokémon being able to know that many moves as well?
Your a moderator? When did that happen????

Anyways on topic this would be a good idea and I like some of the suggestions that were added here. Here is one of my own, Maybe a condition like the additional moves are special moves and can only be used every 2 turns..

But if all pokemon even the opponents pokemon could have 6 moves, the battles would be alot harder. however the AI would need to be greatly upgraded...
__________________
My personal website. UPDATED 8/29/2013
Reply With Quote
Reply
Quick Reply

Sponsored Links
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are UTC -8. The time now is 02:17 PM.