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  #3451    
Old March 21st, 2013, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by CycloneGU View Post
Something to remember is that Red and Ash are still separate characters, hence Yellow which was based on the anime in giving you only Pikachu to use as a starter.
I did say that he's just based off of him, although I kind of had a run-on sentence there that made it seem otherwise. But yes, I do understand that. Moral of the story: I just want Red back. Or Blue. Or any older callback. Nothing from the last generation or two please. Cynthia is tired, and we just had two generation five games. Anything older than that I'd be happy with.
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  #3452    
Old March 21st, 2013, 04:38 PM
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Cynthia is tired, and we just had two generation five games. Anything older than that I'd be happy with.


Definitely this. x_x Cynthia was cool and all, but...yeah. I believe I posted this already, but...just no more Cynthia, she was way ahead of her generation, anyway.
  #3453    
Old March 21st, 2013, 04:53 PM
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I suppose I'm saying that because I want the games to be more of a challenge. I'm not sure about you guys, but even B2W2 wasn't really that difficult, and I'd like for them to increase the difficulty just a tad bit, I guess. xD;
I think Join Avenue made B2W2 really lazy. Getting things that took time instantly. Having an expert difficulty would be good. All they would have to do is give opponents better AI, movesets and let them hold items. Opponents with Revives would make things more challenging to.
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  #3454    
Old March 21st, 2013, 05:05 PM
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I think I'd just want to see Challenge mode be brought back and have the enhanced AI and movesets. I think it was a feature they really didn't full potential of the last games.
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  #3455    
Old March 21st, 2013, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Twilight Sky View Post

Definitely this. x_x Cynthia was cool and all, but...yeah. I believe I posted this already, but...just no more Cynthia, she was way ahead of her generation, anyway.
I agree too. She literally added nothing to Unova, and if she appeared again she'd bring nothing to this region again :'(
  #3456    
Old March 21st, 2013, 05:20 PM
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Again with the challenge mode? Difficulty settings do not belong in JRPGs, at all, because of the use of turn-based text windows, the post-game material, and the fact that you'll still overlevel your opponents. Haven't you learn anything from Extra Creditz's video about Pokemon difficulty curve? It's suppose to be one of those games that suppose simple to play through(the basic elements like type effectiveness and switch outs) but hard to master (Effort Values and Individual Values).
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  #3457    
Old March 21st, 2013, 05:34 PM
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The problem I'm having with this is that you're expecting us to have viewed all these outside sources of things. Not all of us are fanatical about watching people's theories on Youtube, so it's kind of silly to be dumbfounded that we haven't seen the latest thing there.

We want more of a challenge. Just because Pokémon is turn-based doesn't mean that we can't be given a more difficult game. If it's not seen in JRPGs, then let's be innovative. Have a difficulty mode to give people who more of a challenge to have a challenge. Unlike most things, it's almost a no-brainer after they've taken the step towards it with B2W2.

Although there is a difficulty curve already, not everyone chooses to battle competitively, or use IVs and EVs. That's an added thing that we're allowed to take use of. For some people, they just want a main storyline that's harder, with more advanced AI. With what we saw in B2W2, I don't see it being hard to implement for them at all.
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  #3458    
Old March 21st, 2013, 05:56 PM
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The problem I'm having with this is that you're expecting us to have viewed all these outside sources of things. Not all of us are fanatical about watching people's theories on Youtube, so it's kind of silly to be dumbfounded that we haven't seen the latest thing there.
Because these web shows have better points about what we're currently speculating when it comes to critical thinking from a business standpoint, which we tend to ignore when it comes to the targeted audience.

Quote:
We want more of a challenge. Just because Pokémon is turn-based doesn't mean that we can't be given a more difficult game. If it's not seen in JRPGs, then let's be innovative. Have a difficulty mode to give people who more of a challenge to have a challenge. Unlike most things, it's almost a no-brainer after they've taken the step towards it with B2W2.
The game is already challenging enough for gamers new to Pokemon. Keep in mind that the primary targeted audience are kids, who aren't capable of finishing the game in 2-3 days like older players. If you're a veteran fan, then of course will it be easy. Your future kids will have trouble playing the latest Zelda game much like you had trouble playing the Zelda game you grew up with as a kid. Besides, Nintendo is known for placing challenging levels/facilities post-game in their titles, and Pokemon's no exception with its post-game material.

Quote:
Although there is a difficulty curve already, not everyone chooses to battle competitively, or use IVs and EVs. That's an added thing that we're allowed to take use of. For some people, they just want a main storyline that's harder, with more advanced AI. With what we saw in B2W2, I don't see it being hard to implement for them at all.
Whether you like it or not, competitive players are becoming part of the Pokemon's targeted audience, as what a friend of mine from BMGF theorized about Gen V having a shorter/more linear story mode and reusable TM to allow competitive players to develop their teams quicker for on-coming VGC tournaments. A more advanced AI would only make the battles more frustrating than challenging if you include constant switch outs and critical hax. The battle facilities and Black Tower/White Tower are already hard enough to drive an experienced player nuts.
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  #3459    
Old March 21st, 2013, 06:03 PM
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Because these web shows have better points about what we're currently speculating when it comes to critical thinking from a business standpoint, which we tend to ignore when it comes to the targeted audience.

That doesn't mean that we've all seen it still. It's also mildly insulting say that we don't critical think as well as people you do Youtube videos. Although maybe not every thought we have is planned out as well, it's not like we aren't thinking. Expecting us to watch the videos to understand what you are choosing to reference is a little ridiculous.

The game is already challenging enough for gamers new to Pokemon. Keep in mind that the primary targeted audience are kids, who aren't capable of finishing the game in 2-3 days like older players. If you're a veteran fan, then of course will it be easy. Your future kids will have trouble playing the latest Zelda game much like you had trouble playing the Zelda game you grew up with as a kid. Besides, Nintendo is known for placing challenging levels/facilities post-game in their titles, and Pokemon's no exception with its post-game material.

Yes, I acknowledge that. That's not my point. Adding in an ADDITIONAL challenge mode -- NOT THE MAIN MODE THAT IS NORMAL FOR THE GAMES -- that people aren't required to play, is what I'm talking about. Yes, games for the experience players are easy. That's my point: Once you have an established series, it's starts getting stale for the long-timers. Zelda took on that challenge lately with Hero Mode, making us take double damage and no recovery hearts from plants. So yes, it's their version of challenge mode. Let's see something like that for Pokémon by increasing the AI a bit for something OPTIONAL.

Whether you like it or not, competitive players are becoming part of the Pokemon's targeted audience, as what a friend of mine from BMGF theorized about Gen V having a shorter/more linear story mode and reusable TM to allow competitive players to develop their teams quicker for on-coming VGC tournaments. A more advanced AI would only make the battles more frustrating than challenging if you include constant switch outs and critical hax. The battle facilities and Black Tower/White Tower are already hard enough to drive an experienced player nuts.

You do realize I've been part of the competitive scene of PC for the past five years =P I have ZERO issue with competitive play whatsoever. I don't think that people you don't want to be part of it because that's the only difficulty curve in the game should be forced to though. If people don't want to battle online, they shouldn't have to. Increasing the AI in an OPTIONAL challenge mode isn't that hard to implement, as they've done it in the past. Adding it in isn't some far out idea. It's already been done partially, let's take it the rest of the way.

I'm too lazy to break it up so responses in bold =P Also since I'm typing in bold, using caps for emphasis instead, so don't take that as yelling!
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Last edited by Troye; March 21st, 2013 at 06:22 PM.
  #3460    
Old March 21st, 2013, 06:20 PM
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Jake is very much correct. VGC has had a history of being difficult to prepare for because people make a run-through of their games, leveling up their in-game teams to their heart contends whilst at the same time thrashing NPC's and steamrolling major characters and the villainous team, but when VGC comes around people haven't though much about what they plan on doing competitively, so it then becomes a complete overhaul of movesets, stats, etc.
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  #3461    
Old March 21st, 2013, 06:23 PM
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I mean, in my opinion, I have no problem with the difficulty curve. I personally feel that a harder Pokemon game is a more enjoyable one. But that's me! I agree with Jake on the basis of the difficulty curve being optional, and if more experienced players want to go ahead with the difficulty curve, then they should! Who's anyone else to tell them that they can't because the game is mainly for kids? I mean, I firmly believe that the Pokemon genre can appeal to as many people as possible, and I believe that GF has been doing their absolute best with that, really.

I just feel that an optional difficulty increase would not be something unfeasible in any way, and make it moreso this time around. If the regular/casual players or the kids don't want to go through said challenge mode, then that's their choice. But I'd personally find solace if the option was always there for a more challenging and more fulfilling Pokemon-ing experience.
  #3462    
Old March 21st, 2013, 06:51 PM
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If a challenge mode were introduced, I'd suggest to create a second storyline and send the player to all of the Gyms a second time around, challenging much more difficult teams. The badges can be enhanced versions, like having a golden treatment to them or something. Once all badges are collected again, the final E4 of the game has something like Lv.80 Pokémon with all the extra experience you've been gaining. There can even be a new Victory Road, and you can't rechallenge the E4 until you are eligible the second time, instead of being able to go right back. New benefits can be tied to the second round of badges, and thus you can for instance have Lv.70 trades stop obeying you with all eight "normal" Badges, etc. (No using high-level Events the first time!)

It would be neat if the second storyline goes through new areas that have the much tougher Pokémon you can train against.

Admit it, you like this idea.

Cyclone
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  #3463    
Old March 21st, 2013, 06:58 PM
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I honestly don't like that idea =/ I think that's going too far out of the way for a Challenge mode. I don't see coming up with a new storyline is plausible in the slightest. That's just going way out of the way to do something to increase difficulty. If they want to give us a challenge, then they should do just that -- give us a challenge. We don't need an entire new storyline for a challenge mode, just make the normal one harder.
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  #3464    
Old March 21st, 2013, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Jake♫ View Post
I honestly don't like that idea =/ I think that's going too far out of the way for a Challenge mode. I don't see coming up with a new storyline is plausible in the slightest. That's just going way out of the way to do something to increase difficulty. If they want to give us a challenge, then they should do just that -- give us a challenge. We don't need an entire new storyline for a challenge mode, just make the normal one harder.
So ruin the hallmark of the games. They're not going to make the first Gym Lv.30. I personally like the idea of a second run of Gyms with or without new storyline, but new areas would still be a bonus. I actually disliked the G/S/C treatment, where they give you more Lv.2 Pokémon and such around Lv.45ish Trainers and Lv.50ish Gyms. I would have preferred Kanto wild encounters be harder, too.

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  #3465    
Old March 21st, 2013, 07:08 PM
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The point I'm trying to make is that you guys will treat XY like crud because of the lack of an optional difficiulty setting that really has no place in a JRPG game like Pokemon. Challenge =/= masterpiece. Generation 2 was regarded as the best of the series despite having an easier difficulty curve than the other gens. We're better off having challenging post-game material such Zelda's Hero Mode than having an optional difficulty option, but no matter how much you whine to GF about increase the main storyline's difficulty, kids will always be the series' top priority, because, as provided by the Game Overthinker, video games are toys.
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  #3466    
Old March 21st, 2013, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Pinkie-Dawn View Post
The point I'm trying to make is that you guys will treat XY like crud because of the lack of an optional difficiulty setting that really has no place in a JRPG game like Pokemon. Challenge =/= masterpiece. Generation 2 was regarded as the best of the series despite having an easier difficulty curve than the other gens. We're better off having challenging post-game material such Zelda's Hero Mode than having an optional difficulty option, but no matter how much you whine to GF about increase the main storyline's difficulty, kids will always be the series' top priority, because, as provided by the Game Overthinker, video games are toys.
I'm sorry but I don't see how you can dictate what we can or can't enjoy (as seen by your word usage). It's not that we'll treat X/Y like crap whether or not it has a difficulty option. It's just that a difficulty setting would be nice to have. I mean, we barely know anything about the game yet, how are we supposed to make any judgements on it whatsoever? I honestly think that you're jumping to conclusions that are honestly extremely nonexistent.

In short: Difficulty options would be nice to have. Overly necessary? No. Would it be a nice addition to further enjoy the game? Yes. Gamefreak will add whatever it feels like adding to the game, not just based on demographics, but based on what they perceive is the generation direction the fanbase is going in regards to the main series. They pay attention to just about almost everything. Even fan speculation like we're doing now. They're not clueless in any matter whatsoever about what we want and what we don't want. It's a matter of what they feel like what would best belong in these games.
  #3467    
Old March 21st, 2013, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Pinkie-Dawn View Post
The point I'm trying to make is that you guys will treat XY like crud because of the lack of an optional difficiulty setting that really has no place in a JRPG game like Pokemon. Challenge =/= masterpiece. Generation 2 was regarded as the best of the series despite having an easier difficulty curve than the other gens. We're better off having challenging post-game material such Zelda's Hero Mode than having an optional difficulty option, but no matter how much you whine to GF about increase the main storyline's difficulty, kids will always be the series' top priority, because, as provided by the Game Overthinker, video games are toys.
Did you just say I would treat it like crud? Honestly, I am offended that you think I would hate the game for a lack of difficulty. RPGs are meant to challenge to a point, and you are meant to find a way to overcome it. That's what makes the game type. And even at a higher level, I'd just train more and still vanquish the opponent easily. I lost one Pokémon against the Champion (Iris) because I trained up to Lv.64-65 before going in there (started at 63, most had hit 64 after four battles, one at 65, still had one 63).

I personally think if the game threw Lv.100 Pokémon at you, it would not be fun at all.

There you have it.

Cyclone
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  #3468    
Old March 21st, 2013, 07:23 PM
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Derk pretty much got everything I wanted to reply to with Pinkie-Dawn, so I'm pretty much going to skip that one. However, the LAST thing I'm saying (which was Derk's first point!) was that if one isn't included then I'm definitely not going to say the games are crap. That's preposterous and and ridiculous assumption. The addition of one would be awesome. Necessary? Absolutely not.

However, I don't think adding a difficult setting means that we're going to see the first gym at level 30 Cyclone. If anything that's just ridiculous to even throw out there. I don't see anything wrong with having a second run-through of the gyms at all, it's the addition of a new storyline for the sake of a Challenge mode I think is a little crazy. I think having an increasingly difficulty curve with better movesets and AI from the start would be good for a challenge mode.
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  #3469    
Old March 21st, 2013, 07:25 PM
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I'm sorry but I don't see how you can dictate what we can or can't enjoy (as seen by your word usage). It's not that we'll treat X/Y like crap whether or not it has a difficulty option. It's just that a difficulty setting would be nice to have. I mean, we barely know anything about the game yet, how are we supposed to make any judgements on it whatsoever? I honestly think that you're jumping to conclusions that are honestly extremely nonexistent.

In short: Difficulty options would be nice to have. Overly necessary? No. Would it be a nice addition to further enjoy the game? Yes. Gamefreak will add whatever it feels like adding to the game, not just based on demographics, but based on what they perceive is the generation direction the fanbase is going in regards to the main series. They pay attention to just about almost everything. Even fan speculation like we're doing now. They're not clueless in any matter whatsoever about what we want and what we don't want. It's a matter of what they feel like what would best belong in these games.
I'm trying to protect XY from becoming another Gen III by the series' polarized fanbase, from here to 4chan to Youtube, after hearing some of the complaints about it from some of our well-respected users based on the teaser trailer such as the graphics. Companies shouldn't listen to the fans on what they should add on their games, as they could potentially ruin the game. SEGA learned that the hard way with their fanbase after releasing Sonic Unleashed.
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  #3470    
Old March 21st, 2013, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Pinkie-Dawn View Post
I'm trying to protect XY from becoming another Gen III by the series' polarized fanbase, from here to 4chan to Youtube, after hearing some of the complaints about it from some of our well-respected users based on the teaser trailer such as the graphics. Companies shouldn't listen to the fans on what they should add on their games, as they could potentially ruin the game. SEGA learned that the hard way with their fanbase after releasing Sonic Unleashed.
And pray tell, what was exactly wrong with Gen III? I suppose thats a subjective matter that's left for a different topic, so let me ask a different question: What relevance does Gen III have whatsoever with X/Y? Yes, I like Gen III, but do I wish for X/Y to become another Gen III? No, I do not. I want X/Y to be their own games. It would be nice if they had Gen III elements, but it is not necessary.

And it's really your word against theirs. After all, maybe GF would listen to most fans this time around. Maybe they'll consider suggestions that they'll see. Maybe they won't. That's the primary purpose of speculation: not only to speak your mind about what you would want to see in the games, but also, to some extent, predict what GF might include in these games. Who knows? They might actually see said suggestion if it spreads like wildfire, and if they like it, they'll include it.

You might not like it, but you're one of like, millions of fans. If the millions want something to be implemented that badly, the chances are GF is not going to risk money saying "no". That's just how it is.
  #3471    
Old March 21st, 2013, 07:33 PM
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So seems you get my idea, make the game beatable in a simple fashion but make it playable and beatable a second time. Move some power moves into the "second half" of the game to even appear in places like Route 1 after the first run-through is completed. Imagine walking along Route 1 and suddenly finding the TM for Earthquake lying around.

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  #3472    
Old March 21st, 2013, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Pinkie-Dawn View Post
I'm trying to protect XY from becoming another Gen III by the series' polarized fanbase, from here to 4chan to Youtube, after hearing some of the complaints about it from some of our well-respected users based on the teaser trailer such as the graphics. Companies shouldn't listen to the fans on what they should add on their games, as they could potentially ruin the game. SEGA learned that the hard way with their fanbase after releasing Sonic Unleashed.
I've been one of the biggest people saying "Don't add stuff for fan service!", so that's not my issue here. All I'm saying is that it would be NICE to see a Challenge mode worth playing in. That's it. I'm not demanding it, I'm not trying to make the games worse (which, by the way, how would wanting something optional even do that =P). I'm pretty sure I'm allowed to speculate about what would be a cool Challenge mode. That doesn't mean I'm forcing them to make the game a certain way, or to repeat a previous generation. It's literally speculation about something I think would be cool to see. Take it with a grain of salt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CycloneGU View Post
So seems you get my idea, make the game beatable in a simple fashion but make it playable and beatable a second time. Move some power moves into the "second half" of the game to even appear in places like Route 1 after the first run-through is completed. Imagine walking along Route 1 and suddenly finding the TM for Earthquake lying around.

Cyclone
I do like the idea of going back to fight Gym Leaders again (Maybe even as part of the post-game to continue some storyline or something, who knows). Although I don't really like leaving out TMs like that to appear again. I mean, let's be honest: If you're told you have to go back and fight the Gym Leaders again, are you REALLY going to walk through the routes again, or are you just going to Fly to the appropriate town?
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  #3473    
Old March 21st, 2013, 07:48 PM
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I don't even like to call it post-game. Once the storyline effectively ends before the E4, it's like guh, why bother to go back afterwards? There's nothing to do except keep training, and if you're not a battling on Wifi type, it can get boring. This would allow the storyline to be suspended so you can complete your challenge, then you return after challenging the E4 to find that another Master Plan has been concocted and several cities are involved. You can then Fly around, and do more things. The Gyms open up for challenging a second time after the entire storyline is completed, and you can wander at will. There can also be new areas opened up as part of the concluding storyline (like the Nature Preserve coming after getting everything in B2/W2) with super-strong Pokémon to train against for high XP.

I'd love to see this done. Even in a Hoenn remake.

Cyclone
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  #3474    
Old March 22nd, 2013, 07:52 AM
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I wish the weaker tm's were move to the beginning as they'll be likely to be used more. Also save the most powerful ones for the last gym areas and Victory road, instead of having them appear at the middle. Also I love it if the gym leaders gave out some better tm's. Maybe even have one of them give out an HM.
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  #3475    
Old March 22nd, 2013, 10:59 AM
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Nature: Lax
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magmaruby and Aquasapphire View Post
I wish the weaker tm's were move to the beginning as they'll be likely to be used more. Also save the most powerful ones for the last gym areas and Victory road, instead of having them appear at the middle. Also I love it if the gym leaders gave out some better tm's. Maybe even have one of them give out an HM.
Definitely agree with this. It's weird getting things like Quash later in the game, when it reality no one is really ever going to use it. I'd like to just see things like Ice Beam and Flamethrower given to us by the Elite Four, whether it's in Victory Road or a little before.
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