The PokéCommunity Forums  

Go Back   The PokéCommunity Forums > Off-Topic Discussions > Discussions & Debates
Sign Up Rules/FAQ Live Battle Blogs Mark Forums Read

Notices

Discussions & Debates The place to go for slightly more in-depth topics. Discussions and debates about the world, current events, ideas, news, and more.


Reply
Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.  
Thread Tools
  #1    
Old March 4th, 2013, 08:14 PM
gimmepie's Avatar
gimmepie
The Seeker of Pies
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Australia
Age: 18
Gender: Male
Nature: Mild
Recently in the process of doing some work towards my degree a topic came up that I thought would be interesting to hear your opinions on. That topic is

Teachers are obliged to develop children’s morality as part of their education

I have my own thoughts on the matter and I would like to hear yours.

My thoughts are this - I define the role of a school, especially in the primary/elementary role, as to provide the skills and knowledge that is necessary for students to possess in order to become a productive member of society. I would suggest that an understanding of socially acceptable morality and the ethics of one's society as a whole is knowledge that will benefit students a lot in making them productive members of society simply because it is important for them to be able to attract clientèle and work with others once they join the work force. Which would make developing a students morality a part of providing the skills and knowledge needed and fits the role of a school exactly as I defined it. That being said I also think that individuality is important and that students should be encouraged to form their own beliefs and values so as not to stunt their psychological growth. So, what is your opinion? Do you agree, disagree, a bit of both? Discuss.
__________________
Roleplay Corner|Forum Games|Pairs|Sig|Arch Nemesis|Pie
"I don't need a quote, I need pie" - Gimmepie
Reply With Quote
  #2    
Old March 5th, 2013, 10:04 AM
Shiny Celebi
Donator Tier 3
Community Supporter Tier 3
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The Internet
I think it's up to parents to teach their kids about morality, not schools. Its an individual thing, although there are some general basics( dont go around murdering people and stealing stuff from them, treat others how you want to be treated, etc..) it would squash their individuality and if their parents taught them differently a child could end up confused. I dont really think it's a school's job tbh.
__________________
BMGf Ever Grande City
Reply With Quote
  #3    
Old March 5th, 2013, 02:16 PM
Hybrid Trainer's Avatar
Hybrid Trainer
My Secrecy. My Advantage.
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: «UK»
Age: 19
Gender: Male
I don't think that it should be obligitory for teachers to have to teach kids good morals, since I agree it is a parents duty to bring up their children. However I think to be even a half way decent teacher you'll have to teach the kids decent morals. It's pretty much part of behaviour management. If a child is constantly shouting out over the teacher and being rude because the child thinks that's ok to do then the teacher is going to have some issues in the classroom if they don't challenge the behaviour.
In extreme cases bad morals in kids can also put other children's health at risk since if a younger child thinks that it's ok to hit another child for whatever reason you're putting other students well being in danger because you don't think it's your job to teach a child morals.
__________________


"I am confident that if anyone actually penetrates our facades, even the most perceptive would still be fundamentally unprepared for the truth of House Dimir."
-Szadek, Lord of Secrets

Reply With Quote
  #4    
Old March 5th, 2013, 03:19 PM
Ephemeral Euphoria's Avatar
Ephemeral Euphoria
The Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Within My Worst Nightmares
Nature: Quiet
I knew parents were lazier than a bunch of pigs on dope nowadays but really? You're so out of touch with your kid that you gotta have schools teaching the tykes what's right and what's wrong instead of doing it yourselves?

Sorry little raeg there, but yeah it definitely shouldn't be mandatory if you ask me since it'll basically be drone production otherwise.
__________________

Let the game begin.
Reply With Quote
  #5    
Old March 5th, 2013, 03:38 PM
Evil Stud Muffin's Avatar
Evil Stud Muffin
I like kitties
Community Supporter
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Age: 21
Gender: Male
Nature: Lax
No, not entirely. The basics sure, but there are too many teachers in a child's life to be considered proper channels for life lessons. The parents are first and foremost the morality teachers, as they are the only constant in a Child's life.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #6    
Old March 6th, 2013, 12:40 AM
gimmepie's Avatar
gimmepie
The Seeker of Pies
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Australia
Age: 18
Gender: Male
Nature: Mild
^Agreed, really. The formulation of opinions is something that a teacher should never interfere with, that doesn't promote learning in anyway and does the opposite of producing productive members of society. That being said the teachers should always encourage a few basic morals and values such as non-violence unless it is absolutely necessary, equality amongst people and, in my opinion, individuality counts as one of these important things we should teach.
__________________
Roleplay Corner|Forum Games|Pairs|Sig|Arch Nemesis|Pie
"I don't need a quote, I need pie" - Gimmepie
Reply With Quote
  #7    
Old March 6th, 2013, 04:17 PM
Brynjolf's Avatar
Brynjolf
It's so overt it's covert
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: The Ragged Flagon
Gender: Female
I really think school has no business teaching you what is moral. There would be so many conflicting opinions between parents and teachers and no ugh it would just be a big mess.
__________________
Are you sure you want to play this game?
I'm afraid you'd lose
Reply With Quote
  #8    
Old March 6th, 2013, 04:25 PM
Blade_of_darkness's Avatar
Blade_of_darkness
War Machine
Community Supporter
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Gender: Male
Nature: Rash
Send a message via Skype™ to Blade_of_darkness
Seeing that at least half of the parents around here are ineffective at best, since they'd rather leave their children at a day-care than to actually take the time to raise them, I deem it necessary to have our teachers teach the children good morals, but only if they see it fitting that the said child needs it. If the child is already well-disciplined, then they need not to teach them any morals. However, since more & more children becoming more chaotic, this method is the last & best hope for today's generation of children.
__________________

^ The last thing you see before you die ^
Reply With Quote
  #9    
Old March 10th, 2013, 10:40 AM
shenanigans's Avatar
shenanigans
GONE DANCIN'
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Manchester
Gender: Male
I think Hybrid Trainer hit the nail on the head. I imagine there's basic stuff, like not hitting other kids or whatever, which we can all agree on (and if some parents don't agree on that then... oh dear.) and which is fine for teachers to teach children. But it has to be only the very basic stuff, I think. Stuff that'll have an impact on a child's views about matters which aren't black or white rather than what's just socially acceptable needs to be left to parents. It's not the place of a teacher to transfer their potentially controversial views onto a child. That's the parents' job, should they choose to do so. A teacher should, well, teach while helping to guide the children in what's acceptable (i.e. the whole hitting, shouting out, etc. thing).

...not that I can imagine why a teacher would be discussing controversial stuff with young children anyway. Or, for that matter, why the parents aren't also teaching social norms.
__________________
#TMAFD
Reply With Quote
  #10    
Old March 10th, 2013, 10:47 AM
Jak's Avatar
Jak
eye of the needle
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Alabama
Age: 21
Gender: Female
Nature: Timid
Unless the school is religious where then you'd basically have to teach religious morals, then no, there's no reason you should. There are basic morals I think a child should learn that they might not learn at home, like not to hit other people or be mean, but it doesn't really go any further than that. But overall, the child's morals should be something they learn at home. And if parent's aren't teaching them and the teachers can't teach them (I'm pretty sure it's illegal anyway?), then that's just lazy on the parents' part. And by "child's morals" I don't mean religious morals entirely. Just little life lessons in general. I hope this post makes sense lol.
__________________
Kill me like an animal.
paired to klippy and elheroeoscuro
Reply With Quote
  #11    
Old March 13th, 2013, 02:27 AM
Abydos
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Gender: Male
I learned that alone...i didnt trust anyone who wanted to teach me something wrong or right cuz i was lied by everybody and when i was curious about something and i asked about it my parents made joke of it and told the others about this and that made me to be isolated ...and i didn't insulted anyone never,i didnt stole anything in my life and i am always polite to who deserve to be polite to( treat others how you want to be treated)
Reply With Quote
  #12    
Old March 18th, 2013, 06:58 AM
ash_pikachu_98's Avatar
ash_pikachu_98
Prince of Pokemon
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Tampa, Florida
Age: 29
Gender: Male
Send a message via ICQ to ash_pikachu_98 Send a message via AIM to ash_pikachu_98
Really interesting topic. I thought I actually had my mind made up soon after reading the first post, but I found that being less the case as I read the pov from some of the later comments. I think I'm somewhat undecided. I like they idea of it being formally addresses in school. Let's stretch our tax dollars as far as we can hehe. The only thing though is it would have to be a curriculum all to itself with benchmarks and tests. I guess I'm not for or against it. If its taught in schools then great, but if not that's okay too because I know my child is still learning things and I'll personally take care of what he isn't at home.
__________________
Feel free to click any of the following to find me at these places. (oo)
Reply With Quote
  #13    
Old March 19th, 2013, 04:43 AM
lazzxion's Avatar
lazzxion
Unhatched Egg
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Gender: Male
I think some of this stuff should be thought regardless but then again i went to a catholic school so what do i know
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #14    
Old April 3rd, 2013, 09:19 PM
Lance
Master of Dragons
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Blackthorn City
Gender: Male
Nature: Adamant
Send a message via Skype™ to Lance
I'd be willing to bet that they actually teach you morality in a more indirect fashion, what is right from wrong etc. Schools have codes and honor systems and rules and such, just as you would at home. Maybe not over the same things, but still, as a young child, you will be influenced by the teachers you have in some way, learning positives and negatives from them and from other adult authority figures around you.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #15    
Old April 3rd, 2013, 10:12 PM
Kanzler
スペースディスコ ��82.
Community Supporter
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Toronto
Age: 20
Gender: Male
Nature: Relaxed
My position on this has evolved recently. Before I used to think that it was the family's responsibility, and the fact that the morality of youth declining would be due to bad parenting etc. etc. But then I spoke to a friend of mine, and thought some more.

The first factor that changed my mind was how he reminded me that students stay in school some 6 hours every day. They make their friends there. And teachers are an authority figure. I thought about Confucianism, and the respect for teachers inherent in that philosophy, and considered the potential for teachers to be a guiding force.

Secondly I thought about bullying. There's so many stories about school districts and administrations not doing enough to prevent bullying and dealing with it after it happens. If the school had a strong sense of community and anti-bullying culture, then it's more likely they'd be able to identify bullying as it's happening, and allow reconciliation between the two parties. The amazing thing about school is that everybody is a child/growing up. You can actually reconcile two people, whereas in adulthood, I don't think that's really possible. And what is fostering a sense of community and an anti-bullying culture if not guiding the morality of kids?

You first develop teamwork and collaboration skills in school. This is yet another opportunity for moral growth to take place. Morals are essentially social norms, and are not only ideas, but must be practised. What better environment is there than the school in which to reinforce the practising of good morality?
__________________
Cadance.
Reply With Quote
  #16    
Old April 5th, 2013, 08:40 PM
twocows's Avatar
twocows
Pretentious Intellectual Jerk
Community Supporter
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Michigan
Age: 23
Gender: Male
Nature: Lax
I think the philosophy of ethics should be a mandatory course in every high school. Scholars have debated morality for thousands of years, and we have several major competing theories on the topic. I don't think it's unreasonable to teach these to students so they can figure out on their own what right and wrong means to them.
__________________
Doctors Without Borders: one of the few charity groups you can rely on to actually do real good in the world.

PM me if you have computer troubles. I work in IT for a living and can probably solve your problems. My rate is $expensive/hr, but I'm still cheaper than Creep Squad and, unlike them, will actually get the job done or let you know if I can't.

Quote:
The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all.
- H. L. Mencken, unsourced

Quote:
There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."
- Isaac Asimov, Column in Newsweek (21 January 1980) [source]

NEW 40K MMOFPS YESSSSS
Reply With Quote
  #17    
Old April 6th, 2013, 06:38 PM
OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire's Avatar
OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire
10000 year Emperor of Hoenn
Community Supporter
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: West Coast
Age: 20
Gender: Male
Nature: Calm
I'm also working on becoming a Teacher. One of my professors told the class that we as teachers must serve as role models for our students. I believe it's true that teachers play a large role in ethics and morals especially at a young age, later on though that influence declines (that's why the ancient Chinese and other civilizations (both ancient and recent) would start teaching their children at a young age as when they'll get older they'll be harder to mold.) It may sound cliché but life is like a road, the people we meet early on will influence whether we arrive at our destination of choice, or another, and even the people we meet as we're older can change that path. Of course the child's own decisions and mentality also play a part.
__________________
Stand for Life
Reply With Quote
  #18    
Old April 7th, 2013, 06:25 AM
gimmepie's Avatar
gimmepie
The Seeker of Pies
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Australia
Age: 18
Gender: Male
Nature: Mild
@ magma/aqua - I agree with this to a great extent. The thing people forget is that children actually develop a lot of their morals and ethics themselves from experimenting with different social groups (parents, teachers and friends). It is actually quite difficult to force your views onto a person in the manner the nay-sayers of teachers acting as moral educators seem to think teachers teaching for morality would.
__________________
Roleplay Corner|Forum Games|Pairs|Sig|Arch Nemesis|Pie
"I don't need a quote, I need pie" - Gimmepie
Reply With Quote
  #19    
Old April 11th, 2013, 04:47 PM
pokesterific
Unhatched Egg
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Gender: Male
Agreed. Kids are much more susceptible to new experiences in their lives, and things that they experience early on will have a huge impact on them later on in life. It's kind of like the analogy with kids and languages. Kids pick up languages much easier than adults. Same applies to morals and ethics.

I know when I have a kid, I'll be picky about where I send them to school and make sure they have the best interest of my kid at heart. Until then, my family will have to wait for the baby announcements.
Reply With Quote
  #20    
Old April 13th, 2013, 04:06 AM
Stormborn
Indecisive
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Age: 20
Gender: Male
Nature: Relaxed
They have a role in teaching you the basics but no the rest should be left up to the parents and the person themselves. First and foremost their job is to provide education, I mean one could argue morality and proper social behavior is part of education but eh...
Reply With Quote
  #21    
Old April 13th, 2013, 05:27 AM
Jay0173's Avatar
Jay0173
Author
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Ontario, Canada
Gender: Male
Nature: Timid
Send a message via Skype™ to Jay0173
The role of a teacher is to teach a student how to learn. The teacher is also expected to enforce the rules and policies of the school, and discipline students accordingly. However, it is not the role of teachers to teach morality. Because morality is subjective, it cannot be taught in a group setting. Each student is unique and comes from a different background from the rest of the student body. Therefore their perspective on life differs. This is especially true of students who come from a different religious background, or who come from a different cultural background. What is moral for a Christian may not be moral for someone who is Jewish or someone who is Muslim.

As I indicated above, the only way a teacher can enforce a certain level of conduct, is through the school's rules and policies governing student and teacher behaviour. So even if a student does not see a problem with talking to the person next to them while a teacher is conducting a lesson, the teacher will discipline the student for disrupting the class, in contravention of the rules governing behaviour. This is not teaching morality, this is enforcing the rules--two completely separate things.
__________________

JAY
3411-1525-5963

Dark-Type Safari with: Sneasel, Vullaby & Liepard
Personal Website
Canadaquaria Forum nScale.net
"...many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view." ~ Obi Wan Kenobi
Reply With Quote
  #22    
Old April 13th, 2013, 11:06 AM
Kanzler
スペースディスコ ��82.
Community Supporter
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Toronto
Age: 20
Gender: Male
Nature: Relaxed
I know that you're not very religious Jay, so it surprises me that you're describing morality in religious terms. Morality exists in any social setting including the secular, liberal, democratic society that everybody in our country identify with either as a residence or a citizen. There are morals that are moral not for a Canadian citizen (and by extension Western civilization, and in turn humanity in all) as well as all religious stripes such as Abrahamics, Hindus, Confucians, so on. I don't think it's particularly useful to segregate morality - the sense of good and evil - to religion by itself, as you and I both have morals that - although they may not be codified as in religion - are nonetheless powerful. The American constitution is short and sweet. The constitution of the People's Republic of China is long and rambling and so much more specific - yet the American one is clearly more influencial. Because morality guides behaviour, I would place the value of a particular morality on how much it guides behaviour, not how well-written it is.

If people want to learn Christian, Jewish, or Muslim morals, they should go to a school that teaches them so. But we will impose morality on all of our children - the Golden rule, honesty, respect, dignity - and so on because children cannot consent to it anyways. Schools have potential (and I'm only saying this because some kids don't "fit" into the school system and become outcasts) to influence behaviour according to "rules" that although aren't codified can be observed empirically - and influencing behaviour according to rules is morality enough for me.
__________________
Cadance.
Reply With Quote
  #23    
Old April 13th, 2013, 07:38 PM
Jay0173's Avatar
Jay0173
Author
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Ontario, Canada
Gender: Male
Nature: Timid
Send a message via Skype™ to Jay0173
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlahISuck View Post
I know that you're not very religious Jay, so it surprises me that you're describing morality in religious terms. Morality exists in any social setting including the secular, liberal, democratic society that everybody in our country identify with either as a residence or a citizen. There are morals that are moral not for a Canadian citizen (and by extension Western civilization, and in turn humanity in all) as well as all religious stripes such as Abrahamics, Hindus, Confucians, so on. I don't think it's particularly useful to segregate morality - the sense of good and evil - to religion by itself, as you and I both have morals that - although they may not be codified as in religion - are nonetheless powerful. The American constitution is short and sweet. The constitution of the People's Republic of China is long and rambling and so much more specific - yet the American one is clearly more influencial. Because morality guides behaviour, I would place the value of a particular morality on how much it guides behaviour, not how well-written it is.
Heh, I'm not religious at all. I agree with everything you said, but I feel that I should clarify my statement. When I mentioned religion, I was specifically referring to how a religious upbringing can shape an individual's world view. I did not mean to infer that morality is religiously based.
__________________

JAY
3411-1525-5963

Dark-Type Safari with: Sneasel, Vullaby & Liepard
Personal Website
Canadaquaria Forum nScale.net
"...many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view." ~ Obi Wan Kenobi
Reply With Quote
Reply
Quick Reply

Sponsored Links
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Minimum Characters Per Post: 25



All times are UTC -8. The time now is 07:55 PM.


Style by Nymphadora, artwork by Sa-Dui.
Like our Facebook Page Follow us on Twitter © 2002 - 2014 The PokéCommunity™, pokecommunity.com.
Pokémon characters and images belong to The Pokémon Company International and Nintendo. This website is in no way affiliated with or endorsed by Nintendo, Creatures, GAMEFREAK, The Pokémon Company or The Pokémon Company International. We just love Pokémon.
All forum styles, their images (unless noted otherwise) and site designs are © 2002 - 2014 The PokéCommunity / PokéCommunity.com.
PokéCommunity™ is a trademark of The PokéCommunity. All rights reserved. Sponsor advertisements do not imply our endorsement of that product or service. User generated content remains the property of its creator.