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Pokémon X & Pokémon Y The Kalos region awaits! Explore a new world, capture new Pokémon, and fight off Team Flare in the newest installment of the core Pokémon series.
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  #1    
Old April 7th, 2013, 10:34 PM
bennyandthejetz
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Has there been any discussion as to whether or not Nintendo/Gamefreak plans to prevent pokemon altered via pokegen/pokesav to be traded or used in X & Y?

As a competitive battler, this is probably the #1 issue that I would like to see addressed with 6th gen. Currently the GTS is plagued with hacked pokemon & it really detracts from the experience. I'm not talking about Blastiose with flamethrower or something silly like that.

I'm talking about pokemon that are shiny, have perfect natures, perfect IV that provide hidden power to cover their weaknesses etc....its like "Yeah right...."

Considering the entire premise of the Pokemon series is generating a "bond" with your pokemon, shouldn't the act of breeding/training pokemon be just as important as battling itself? Just seems that it has become commonplace & accepted amongst the pokemon community to hack all of their pokemon via pokegen/pokesav.
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  #2    
Old April 7th, 2013, 10:42 PM
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But if you can actually get it in the game though - what is the big deal? So if they do ban pokegen/pokesav and everyone actually takes the time to breed and they still have pokemon that are shiny, have perfect natures, perfect IV that provide hidden power to cover their weaknesses then what? Would you be content because they actually took a little more time to get them, to get the same result they otherwise would have? (Im not saying im taking either side either)
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  #3    
Old April 7th, 2013, 11:28 PM
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pikachu4249
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I think it's a good idea because what if
You have your favorite Pokemon from Sinnoh transferred to black and now you want it in X&Y. They should allow pokegen/pokesav, but ban the transfer of hacked Pokemon like in the random match ups. They should let you hack your old hacked Pokemon into X&Y. This would be very helpful. This could be something we could fork over with the creators.

Last edited by pikachu4249; April 7th, 2013 at 11:35 PM.
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  #4    
Old April 7th, 2013, 11:52 PM
bennyandthejetz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rliberto2 View Post
But if you can actually get it in the game though - what is the big deal? So if they do ban pokegen/pokesav and everyone actually takes the time to breed and they still have pokemon that are shiny, have perfect natures, perfect IV that provide hidden power to cover their weaknesses then what? Would you be content because they actually took a little more time to get them, to get the same result they otherwise would have? (Im not saying im taking either side either)
I think it would have a positive effect on the competitive environment as well as add more diversity. Right now there is like 100 pokemon if that, that are used competitively. What about the other 549 pokemon? They are never used because they are inferior to the min/maxed legendaries & many 5th gen pokemon. By preventing the use of pokegen/pokesav it is going to decrease that gap, making ALOT more pokemon viable. Most people will not take the time to properly breed/train pokemon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pikachu4249 View Post
I think it's a good idea because what if
You have your favorite Pokemon from Sinnoh transferred to black and now you want it in X&Y. They should allow pokegen/pokesav, but ban the transfer of hacked Pokemon like in the random match ups. They should let you hack your old hacked Pokemon into X&Y. This would be very helpful. This could be something we could fork over with the creators.
That seems reasonable. That way collectors can continue to collect their pokemon, but any pokemon altered in any way can not be used for competitive use.

Last edited by bennyandthejetz; April 7th, 2013 at 11:54 PM. Reason: Your double post has been automatically merged.
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  #5    
Old April 8th, 2013, 08:53 AM
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You can get perfect IV'd, shiny pokemon with proper Hidden Power coverage without Pokegen/pokesav. RNGers get them a lot. The games can already identify actual manipulated coding in the game to keep hacked pokemon out of competitive play, but a perfect build is possible with out hacking.
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  #6    
Old April 8th, 2013, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rliberto2 View Post
But if you can actually get it in the game though - what is the big deal? So if they do ban pokegen/pokesav and everyone actually takes the time to breed and they still have pokemon that are shiny, have perfect natures, perfect IV that provide hidden power to cover their weaknesses then what? Would you be content because they actually took a little more time to get them, to get the same result they otherwise would have? (Im not saying im taking either side either)
You do know the chances of getting a Pokémon with all 31 IVs AND good nature AND shiny are extremely slim, right? I'll eat my hat if Pokégen is banned next gen yet we still see a Pokémon like this. The odds are completely against the player.

And RNG is cheating as well. You need an external program (RNG Reporter) to even find your seed and calibrate your DS. How's that different from using an AR? It's even an improper way of cheating, since, if you know what you're doing, you can replicate a Pokémon with Pokégen and Nintendo won't even know it was hacked.
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Gamefreak, if you ever read this, I want to know why you troll Pidgeot. Talonflame has Gale Wings, Staraptor has good stats and Close Combat, Swellow has Guts, even freaking Fearow has Drill Run. And you troll Pidgeot with Big Pecks, Hurricane, and 10 measly base Speed points. Why, Gamefreak? Is the original bird not good enough for you?
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  #7    
Old April 8th, 2013, 10:39 AM
porkiewpyne
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Originally Posted by Cerberus87 View Post
RNG is cheating as well. You need an external program (RNG Reporter) to even find your seed and calibrate your DS. How's that different from using an AR? It's even an improper way of cheating, since, if you know what you're doing, you can replicate a Pokémon with Pokégen and Nintendo won't even know it was hacked.
Debatable. But comparing RNGing with an AR? I'd say there's a world of a difference.

RNG would be like card counting in a casino while using an AR is like mind-controlling the dealer to give you whatever cards you desire.

As you can see, RNG works because you UNDERSTAND how the mechanics behind it. It takes skill, time and effort to pull it off. And even then, it's not 100% foolproof. Just like card counting.
Meanwhile, with an AR, you press A to activate. And it works. Every. Single. Time.


Or a better example would be EV training, & manual vs AR.

Would you call those who EV train cheats just because they understand how the system works? They still have to manually find the desired Pokemon to grind against, and fight. Over and over again. All while keeping tally of the points achieved. Or if they want to retrain, they would have to obtain the EV-reduction berries.

Meanwhile, for AR users, select and press A.

You see where I am going here? If anything, the understanding of the mechanics allows players to gain a larger amount of control (without granting total control), placing emphasis on effort and skill while minimising the effect of chance and luck.
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  #8    
Old April 8th, 2013, 11:10 AM
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Hidden Power is stupid for this exact reason. There is no legit way for a Pokemon with the right IV, Ability, and Egg Moves to ALSO have the Exact Type and Power of Hidden Power.

You are asking people to cheat. If there is no legit way to make Hidden Power work, why have it at all?

Having a weakness in a moveset, not having 100% type coverage, gives each Pokemon a unique purpose on the team. If one pokemon could deal super effective damage to everything, Why have six pokemon at all?

The only thin Hidden Power can do is homogenize Pokemon so they all operate the same way.
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  #9    
Old April 8th, 2013, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerberus87 View Post
You do know the chances of getting a Pokémon with all 31 IVs AND good nature AND shiny are extremely slim, right? I'll eat my hat if Pokégen is banned next gen yet we still see a Pokémon like this. The odds are completely against the player.

And RNG is cheating as well. You need an external program (RNG Reporter) to even find your seed and calibrate your DS. How's that different from using an AR? It's even an improper way of cheating, since, if you know what you're doing, you can replicate a Pokémon with Pokégen and Nintendo won't even know it was hacked.
Yes I know the chances are slim, but it will only take one person to successfully breed a perfect shiny and somewhere down the road im sure there will be a way to clone and then the pokemon will be infecting the online play. If there was a way to ban pokegen pokemon on online battles but allow the program to be used for the story-mode I wouldnt mind at all. I also disagree, RNG is not cheating. There is a lot of time and preparation involved.
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  #10    
Old April 8th, 2013, 12:36 PM
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Lol, RNG abuse is definitely not cheating. Nintendo has said at VGC tournaments that it is the only legit way to get shiny/flawless Pokemon. It's like card counting, but it won't get you taken to the backroom and beaten.

X/Y won't be RNG'd until the 3DS and its encryption of the carts is cracked. When that happens, the RNG will be cracked as well.
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  #11    
Old April 8th, 2013, 12:39 PM
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Cerberus87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by porkiewpyne View Post
Debatable. But comparing RNGing with an AR? I'd say there's a world of a difference.

RNG would be like card counting in a casino while using an AR is like mind-controlling the dealer to give you whatever cards you desire.

As you can see, RNG works because you UNDERSTAND how the mechanics behind it. It takes skill, time and effort to pull it off. And even then, it's not 100% foolproof. Just like card counting.
Meanwhile, with an AR, you press A to activate. And it works. Every. Single. Time.
You just described selective breeding vs RNG, not RNG vs AR.

With RNG, you're also manipulating the game. The game is meant to be completely random. RNG is exploiting a fault in the randomness of the game to get what you want.

I personally don't take the time to learn RNG because 1) I don't have a DS Lite, with which it's much easier to do the process, 2) Pokégen gives me a legal, perfect Pokémon ready to be used in competitive play with much less effort and without the possible side effects of using an AR on your game (which are urban legend anyway but let's not get into that).

Quote:
Originally Posted by rliberto2 View Post
Yes I know the chances are slim, but it will only take one person to successfully breed a perfect shiny and somewhere down the road im sure there will be a way to clone and then the pokemon will be infecting the online play. If there was a way to ban pokegen pokemon on online battles but allow the program to be used for the story-mode I wouldnt mind at all. I also disagree, RNG is not cheating. There is a lot of time and preparation involved.
Amount of effort isn't a factor in defining what's a cheat. RNG definitely takes much less time than using the mechanics the game makers actually intended us to (selective breeding). It may be near impossible to get a perfect Pokémon with selective breeding, even though a perfect Pokémon is not always needed.

Also, many RNG breeders use gen'd Dittos to begin the breeding process and think it's perfectly fine and not cheating.

I'm not against it (the various methods), because I can very well use them myself, and it levels the field when even the PWT Pokémon have perfect IVs which regular players would otherwise find impossible to get, and you also don't win instantly by having an assortment of perfect RNG'd or gen'd Pokémon, but it sure does break the game and means Pokémon is a completely flawed game, because all the mechanics of the game are pointless when you can just generate a perfect Pokémon from scratch, or manipulate the game so that it generates one for you.
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Gamefreak, if you ever read this, I want to know why you troll Pidgeot. Talonflame has Gale Wings, Staraptor has good stats and Close Combat, Swellow has Guts, even freaking Fearow has Drill Run. And you troll Pidgeot with Big Pecks, Hurricane, and 10 measly base Speed points. Why, Gamefreak? Is the original bird not good enough for you?

Last edited by Cerberus87; April 8th, 2013 at 12:53 PM.
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  #12    
Old April 8th, 2013, 01:51 PM
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I hope they do, and I hope they overhaul the IV / EV system and make competitive battling more accessible.
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  #13    
Old April 8th, 2013, 01:57 PM
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I would love PokeGen to be banned from being accessed in time for Pokemon X and Y, but I honestly don't have a problem with it, I actually love it a ton. Nearly every competitive battler uses Pokegen, it saves time, and nothing will honestly be different if you trained your Pokemon yourself. I'd only want Pokegen banned from being accessed so that battling can be a bit fairer than it already is IMO...
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  #14    
Old April 9th, 2013, 11:22 AM
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Well the 3DS detects games have been altered, so if anyone tried to change their Pokemon with foreign devices/ programs the game will likely crash and be locked (not exactly sure how it works so I may be wrong about some things.) So I see there being an end to this, without the need to make a ban at all.
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  #15    
Old April 15th, 2013, 02:28 AM
bennyandthejetz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magmaruby and Aquasapphire View Post
Well the 3DS detects games have been altered, so if anyone tried to change their Pokemon with foreign devices/ programs the game will likely crash and be locked (not exactly sure how it works so I may be wrong about some things.) So I see there being an end to this, without the need to make a ban at all.
How about Pokemon that have already been altered? That is the real issue. Can it detect pokemon altered via 3rd party programs when they attempt to trade to 3DS even if their stats etc are within set parameters?

I just discovered this site called Pokecheck & it is absolutely frightening to see how common this is. Like the vast majority of recorded Pokemon are hacked with perfect 31 IV's & hidden powers to cover their weaknesses flawlessly.

How could Nintendo let it get this bad?
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  #16    
Old April 15th, 2013, 04:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bennyandthejetz View Post
How about Pokemon that have already been altered? That is the real issue. Can it detect pokemon altered via 3rd party programs when they attempt to trade to 3DS even if their stats etc are within set parameters?

I just discovered this site called Pokecheck & it is absolutely frightening to see how common this is. Like the vast majority of recorded Pokemon are hacked with perfect 31 IV's & hidden powers to cover their weaknesses flawlessly.

How could Nintendo let it get this bad?
It doesn't matter what Nintendo does or doesn't do, it is literally impossible to prevent cheating. In a multiplayer game, it is somewhat possible to achieve it is by having significant amount of game logic as well as the save games be handled by a server as seen in most online games.
There is always-online DRM for single player games but it is neither fail-safe nor is it practical for a handheld game, not to mention that it is a defective-by-design concept in the first place.
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Old April 17th, 2013, 12:31 AM
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I personally love Min-Maxing Pokes, I do personally craft my own, though I'm usually in something like Pokemon Showdown! without having an actual game. Forcing me to play legit would be completely fine by me as long as they made capping level easier. I shouldn't have to spam-run the elite four thousands of times to max a party of pokes. While yes, some of us do have the time to handcraft, breed, level and hatch every pokemon, I personally don't. The little time I get to play I'd like to do what I enjoy, not feel so far behind it's not worth it. So, the solution? PokeSav/Gen. I don't typically spam shinies but I do make perfect EVs/IVs, for sure. Not worrying as much about IVs as EVs of course. The difference in a speed stacked or bulk stacked poke can make a game breaking difference.
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  #18    
Old April 17th, 2013, 02:19 AM
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I think an overhaul of the current EV and IV system is the only way to fix the problem. Reduce the variations in each individual stats, meaning if any Pokemon is modified to be the best it can be, the advantage would be much smaller.
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  #19    
Old April 17th, 2013, 09:25 AM
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I can agree with that, I hate how some pokemon are almost completely useless simply because one in a higher stat tier has enough speed to one shot them. That's always bugged me, I understand that not every pokemon can be equal, but final stages and basic only pokes should be more well balanced, or at the least have some way to stand a chance. Using a Never Used in an Over Used battle without some godawful pokepower or rain/sun setup, is just a wasted slot. : /
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  #20    
Old April 21st, 2013, 09:13 PM
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I'd like for it to become a viable option for non-cheaters to have more of a chance in the metagame, and maybe fix the GTS at least a little bit. Cheating really bugs me- I worked damn hard to get these pokemon to where they are, following the rules of the world (if breeding for IVs and EV-training count), while others got their pokemon at a mere fraction of the time in the best of cases, and nigh-instantly in the worst. I think they just plain don't deserve them, and they shouldn't be anywhere near my sight, much less on the other side of the playing field. Don't care whether or not they have them in their personal games, outside of online interaction, though.
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  #21    
Old May 17th, 2013, 12:53 PM
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I hope they do ban it. Either that, or make it so every Pokemon transferred from previous games starts off as an egg or at level 5.

People tend to dislike my for not supporting pokesav/pokegen in online play, but I have always been someone who does competitive battling with Pokemon that I have actually raised myself from scratch. It takes a long time, yes, but hard work should be rewarded, and the problem with pokegen/pokesav pokemon in online battles is that they weren't the products of hard work, and the people using pokesav will generally have an advantage over people who actually breed and raise their pokemon(because it is very very hard to get perfect IV's).

I have not enjoyed online battling as much as I could because of this. If people had to actually put in the effort to make good Pokemon, it would be a lot more fun for me, and good teams would be acknowledged much more.

But that is how I feel.
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  #22    
Old May 17th, 2013, 01:04 PM
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Cheaters will always find a way... Unless they make it so you cant trade Pokemon from previous games to this one (unless they have some way to scan them) then the cheaters will have to make a pokegen that works for 3DS... Which they will... Eventually...
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Old May 17th, 2013, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by LycaNinja View Post
Cheaters will always find a way... Unless they make it so you cant trade Pokemon from previous games to this one (unless they have some way to scan them) then the cheaters will have to make a pokegen that works for 3DS... Which they will... Eventually...
Yeah they will eventually. But so far, there is no action replay for the 3DS, so we will be safe for a while.

I'm okay with people using it to skip the breeding part, because it does take a very very long time to breed a Pokemon with really good IV's. But they should at least have the dignity to start from an egg and level up to 100 and do EV training theirselves.
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  #24    
Old May 23rd, 2013, 06:38 AM
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you do know there is a possibility that nintendo doesn't know about pokegen right?
besides, putting your love in pokemon is why the franchise makes these games. their not meant to be cheated on. an achievement can only be achieved by spending time on it. that was a quote from my grand ma. and probally others too
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  #25    
Old May 23rd, 2013, 06:48 AM
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you do know there is a possibility that nintendo doesn't know about pokegen right?
besides, putting your love in pokemon is why the franchise makes these games. their not meant to be cheated on. an achievement can only be achieved by spending time on it. that was a quote from my grand ma. and probally others too
They know about it. They used to do checks on them randomly in tournaments. Nintendo can usually tell if they are fake and a lot of their battle features catch created Pokemon. They are aware of all forms of Pokemon creation and GTS manipulation software and sites. They even know about Pokecheck.
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