SAME-SEX MARRIAGE NOW LEGAL IN NEW ZEALAND

Maybe when Julia Gillard sees how happy people are that New Zealand legalised gay marriage, she might actually realise in the end that legalising gay marriage is the right thing to do. Rather than having people move to New Zealand so they can marry the person they love.

Thanks in part to this, there is going to be an entire generation of people in NZ who will grow up thinking that there's nothing out of the ordinary for two people of the same sex to be married, to raise children together, to be a family, and that is, to use Harlequin's phrase, A Good Thing.

Gyardosamped said:

Even if you don't share my mentality, people shouldn't go around saying, "yeah, I'm all for equality except I don't really approve of gay marriage." I'm sorry to burst anyone's bubble, but doesn't marriage equality make up a large component of equality in general? I was merely stating that people shouldn't be gloating that they're all for equality except don't approve of gay marriage, because it just makes those people seem like hypocrites and bigots.

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Disapproving doesn't necessarily mean "against." Like I said earlier, I'm not a big fan of homosexual marriage or unions, partly due to religious background and because I find it unnatural.

However,

Just because I feel that way, doesn't mean that should decide if two people who love each other can or cannot get married. That's their decision, and I ought not have a part in interfering with it. They are consenting, legal adults who can think for themselves and who know what's best for them. I don't. Why should my mentality keep them from marrying? That's not fair at all.

I believe that everyone is equal as human beings, which means every human being gets the same rights regardless sexual orientation, gender, "class," etc. I can still support equal rights for all and still retain my own thoughts about the topic. People can do what they want; if they're not in my face about it, I won't throw my disapproval in their faces. The world would work well this way imo.

Again, I shall reiterate: New Zealand has done a great thing for universal human rights in that country and if other countries follow suit, that's great. No one ought to deny others basic rights like these simply because of personal opinion, mentality or judgment. Those kinds of things ought to be kept out of politics.

Thanks in part to this, there is going to be an entire generation of people in NZ who will grow up thinking that there's nothing out of the ordinary for two people of the same sex to be married, to raise children together, to be a family, and that is, to use Harlequin's phrase, A Good Thing.

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That's such a heart warming way to put it, Scarf. <3 Makes me feel all fuzzy inside and I just wish that people in the US could grow up and see what NZ will get to see now.

I don't know if any of you saw this, but when it passed, the House of Representatives burst into song:



The waves are breaking, against the shores of Waiapu,
My heart is aching, for your return my love.

Oh my beloved, come back to me, my heart is breaking for love for you.

I have written you a letter, and enclosed with it my ring,
If your people should see it, then the trouble will begin.

Oh girl, come back to me, my heart is breaking for love for you.

My poor pen is broken, my paper is spent,
But my love for you endures, and remains forever more.

Oh my beloved, come back to me, my heart is breaking for love for you.

The sun's hot sheen, won't scorch my love,
Being kept evergreen, by the falling of my tears.

Oh girl, Come back to me, I could die of love for you.

Why are they hugging each other and all at the end?

If I had more thumbs they'd all be raised in congratulations to the people of New Zealand. A great thing has happened today!

♣Gawain♣ said:

I don't approve in such practice, I'm sory to say. I don't mean to critisize you all, but I hate such practices that becomes taboo in the world. It destroys the meaning of marriage. What I hope and pray is that the other nations wouldn't follow.

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You know what happens to people who wish to restrict rights of others? Their wishes get denied. I guess this means I won't be seeing you at World Pride 2014 in Toronto, Ontario, Canada (a country where same-sex couples can get married). It's a shame. Because maybe if you saw these people celebrating in the streets for the acceptance they've earned and the equality they obtained, you might just begin singing another tune. The majority of people attending Pride aren't even a part of the LGBT community! They're friends and family, and supporters from all over the world.

it is my hope that the song of bigotry, fear and divisiveness gets forever drowned out by the song of love, acceptance and inclusiveness. Gawain, the song you are singing is quickly dying. It's time to join us in the present. You only need to take that one step through the door. Won't you try?

Edit: oh, and there is no single meaning of marriage. That is because for every couple that is married, there is a different meaning. What a couple's marriage means to them is different from what their neighbours' meaning of marriage is to them. You can't assign a meaning to marriage, because you can't make people conform to a single ideal, no matter how much you wish otherwise.

BlahISuck said:

Why are they hugging each other and all at the end?

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Because when you legalize love, you spread love.

No, I mean what are the political significances of the MPs involved? Are they crossing the aisle and hugging despite voting in opposite directions? Because I think that would be meaningful.

Very well said, Toujours. I whole heartedly agree. I bet this world would be a much better place if people would take the time to hug someone.

BlahISuck said:

No, I mean what are the political significances of the MPs involved? Are they crossing the aisle and hugging despite voting in opposite directions? Because I think that would be meaningful.

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Nothing political about it. But it does bring a tear to my eye. Again. Way to go New Zealand!

Okay I just wiki'd what the NZ HoR looks like and it seems that the National Party (conservatives) are going across to congratulate those in the Labour Party. Also some National Party MP thought the party got too rough and he excused himself from the room.

It's significant because there are 121 seats, 77 of whom voted yes, and there are only 59 National MP's, so evidently some of them supported the bill. So now the video makes a lot more sense.

There doesn't need to be a reason to hug, especially a political one. Toujours pretty much said it better than I could.

well, sorry but i don't approve that too..Marriage means family..how does people from the same gender make families?? and in they adopted children how will they raise em??

not to mention that i don't see how a people from the same gender feel attracted to each others tbh!

Do you also believe infertile women should not get married either? What about women that are past menopause, or couples that don't want children at all?

Sydian said:

There doesn't need to be a reason to hug, especially a political one. Toujours pretty much said it better than I could.

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I would predict those who hugged to be conservative politicians who voted for the bill, and the MP's that left the room were the ones too offended by the vote result. I'm only trying to be realistic here - they're showing their solidarity even though they might have not voted as the rest of their party has. It's not a big deal, but isn't it sugarcoating it to say there wasn't a political motivation? These MP's were probably really stressed out against the flow to their party - their careers may have been at stake. I'm just trying to add some context to the video, and you don't have to feel that what I'm saying is taking anything away from what's happening.

It saddens me a that a thread that should be a celebration of equality is just slowly going to turn into a gay rights debate. Can't D&D have a happy thread for once? Just once is all I'm asking.

Well, this is discussions and debates :P I support anybody who has anything negative to say about this, even if I don't agree with them. Happy threads don't belong in D&D. To not debate would be to defeat the purpose of this forum. Where would those who have contrary opinions express their feelings if not here? We can have a feel-good thread somewhere else.

Well, this is discussions and debates I support anybody who has anything negative to say about this, even if I don't agree with them. Happy threads don't belong in D&D. To not debate would be to defeat the purpose of this forum. Where would those who have contrary opinions express their feelings if not here? We can have a feel-good thread somewhere else.

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Discussions and Debates. We can discuss things and not have to constantly slap each other with our beliefs. The forum name doesn't say "Debate Or Die" which is surely what it feels like at times.

Chris, I guess you should have posted this thread in Celebrations. lol

Feel-Good Thread Right Here

@Broken_Arrow

And imo, marriage =\= family. Marriage is a means to unite two people who desire to spend their lives together and share their wealth, experiences and, well, everything.

You do not need to be married to start a family. I can attest to that by experience (parents unmarried and never were), and as could studies showing out-of-wedlock babies have grown extravagantly in the last few decades.

Marriage also does not mean love. A lot of marriages are loveless, and it's unfortunate.

Now, adopting children... That's a whole other topic than homosexual marriage. Now we have to take into account how a child develops having been raised by homosexual parents. Since homosexual relations is just recently a "public" appearance (most people a decade or so would've hid rather than expose their sexual preferences! Not to mention in the 1950s and before, it was a huge offense! Again, see Milk.), there isn't enough information on how children are affected by it.

If it turns out the effects are negative, then I would be against it, because the rights of the child surpass those of the want-to-be parents. Overall, we have to protect the child's best interests because in that kind of situation, the children cannot escape and are forced to live in such an environment until they are at least eighteen. Negative effects for me would entail social complexes such as unable to differentiate between genders or unable to communicate needs or wants properly. Again, nothing has been really done in studies, so I'm just naming could-be's and not stuff that's actually proven.

However, if children are not negatively affected by having homosexual parents - and it is proven through studies, nyaa - then let it be so. I don't see any issues with it unless it's going to hurt the child in question.

At this point, I can't see it hurting children except by not having one figure or another in their lives. I have seen studies that show that children benefit more from having a mother and father of the respective genders because mothers are better at some things and fathers at others; however, if the child has homosexual parents who act as we stereotype fathers and mothers to act, then again, I don't see how it could have any sort of negative effect... Other than, you know, prejudice at school. But kids will always find something to pick on another kid about: their name, their class, their hair. It really isn't anything new.

That's a whole different topic, though. Just felt that that should've been explained for Broken_Arrow.

/end-somewhat-off topic

Toujours said:

Do you also believe infertile women should not get married either? What about women that are past menopause, or couples that don't want children at all?

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right now infertile women found ways to have children so it's not big deal now...and menopause!they had their chance to have kids but they decided not to!

can two married guys raise a girl?? can they raise a guy? he will be adopted ..what grant one of them won't be attracted to him!! and same goes with females too

if they decided not to have children what's the point of getting married then!!! either way they're in a relationship and it doesn't matter!

i find it weird to see people from the same gender said to be married!