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  #151    
Old April 14th, 2013 (09:45 AM).
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Actually it's more along the lines of, "you move this much product in 2 days if you don't you're dead". 13 year olds cutting 8 balls, smoking methamphetamine, rollin with heat, raping, murdering, and robbing houses. Even little kids do this stuff, it's not just adults. That's how the ghetto is. But Jay seems to not know about ghetto just because his ghetto is the safe ghetto. There's 2 types of ghetto, his is the safer ghetto. He don't know "GHETTO" like I do.

We need to do something about the people in the ghetto but we can't. Lots of them enjoy gang banging and a majority of them love getting wasted. They like smoking blunts and drinking bottles on the block and throwing parties. That's what they do most of the time, they love guns, and they enjoy slanging dope. They're only problem is the crimes they commit, the ghetto would be decent if they didn't slang dope, have prostitutes, and wars over territory. It's just the way it is, we can't do anything to stop it, yet. Unless we do street sweeps.
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  #152    
Old April 14th, 2013 (10:05 AM).
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Quote originally posted by ShinyUmbreon189:
We need to do something about the people in the ghetto but we can't.
This has got to be the most defeatist thing I've heard from you in a long time. I think it's an unrealistic perspective to say there's nothing that can be done. China and India have probably lifted more than the entire population of the US out of poverty, yet the wealthiest nation in the world can't deal with violent crime in its neighbourhoods?

Your depiction of the ghetto becomes more ghetto every time you do it. These 13 year old kids do not compare to child soldiers. These are kids that fall into the wrong crowd, without a moral authority figure, whose parents have to think harder about getting the bills paid than raising a child. So you deal with these problems and that's doing something about the ghetto. Right? It's addressing the problem at the source. If that can't convince you of anything, than nobody can convince you by this point. I understand the problem is bad, but it's not unsolvable. Just because you see it like that every day doesn't mean it can't improved. You see, one of the reason the ghetto is so bad is because people, like you, lose hope. And when that happens, it makes anything that you try to do that much harder.
  #153    
Old April 14th, 2013 (10:13 AM).
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Children join gangs to prove they're real and there's no role models in the hood. Yea, there's probably this one family that's barely surviving and not involved in any of they're doings but the rest, are setting bad examples. The rest are drug addicts, murderes, criminals, etc. It's sad really because it's not easy to stop them, you can't just go up in the hood and arrest everyone it don't work that way. That will get you shot. As I said, if we wanted to do something about it we could do street sweeps but that's about it. If we get even 60% of gang affiliated criminals locked up the crime would drop drastically. It's just a matter of maintaining it because they always recruit new members to get stronger.
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  #154    
Old April 14th, 2013 (10:19 AM).
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Quote originally posted by ShinyUmbreon189:
Uh, just a piece of information.... In lot's of cities in America downtown is safe for the most part I can walk around downtown Chicago at 3 am with no problems. I live in West Chicago and I hear gun shots occasionally because 5 blocks down the road it's the "hood" and heavily gang affiliated. West Chicago is full of Hispanic gangs and most of them are "illegal". South Chicago is a lot more ghetto than the West side and there are countless murders, robbery's, assaults, and rapes down there. If you lived in South Chicago, you'd wanna own a gun I guarantee it. You know nothing about (hood politics) you don't know exactly what goes on in the cyfe, you just know what goes on from watching movies and the news. The only way to know about (hood politics) is to live around it yourself. I've seen a woman get raped when I was driving through South Chicago and I've seen at least 4 drive-bys in my life. Have you ever seen this in you're city? I think no. South side is like Detroit, I've been to Detroit and I noticed no difference. Just visit South Chicago for a day or so and see if you wanna get out without 2 minutes.. It's 97% African American and they kill other races.


So yes, I have a very good reasoning of owning a gun. Chicago is different than whatever city you live in in Canada and probably more gang affiliated. Chicago's safe compared to some cities but dangerous to compared to other cities. Just because one cities safe doesn't mean another ones safe. But I doubt that makes any sense to you because you seem to not understand anything I say when other are beginning to.

Actually, visit East St. Louis get out of your car and walk around, if you survive let me know how it goes. Once you do that, you'll realize the dangers of different cities. You're guaranteed to get attacked for walking through East St. Louis and the murder rate is sky high. Someone would get murdered there and cops wont even show up because it's so often and they're scared of showing up there.

You don't know ghetto, but me, I know ghetto. Because I practically live in the ghetto.
We have a notorious intersection (and surrouning area, but its known by the intersection exclusively) for gang-related crime here in Toronto. I don't see how an increased presence of guns would be beneficial there. Thugs will kill thugs regardless. The innocents who die, die in cross-fire, die when mistaken for someone else, etc. If they have a gun how do they protect themselves from something they don't see coming?
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  #155    
Old April 14th, 2013 (10:25 AM).
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Quote originally posted by ShinyUmbreon189:
Children join gangs to prove they're real and there's no role models in the hood. Yea, there's probably this one family that's barely surviving and not involved in any of they're doings but the rest, are setting bad examples. The rest are drug addicts, murderes, criminals, etc. It's sad really because it's not easy to stop them, you can't just go up in the hood and arrest everyone it don't work that way. That will get you shot. As I said, if we wanted to do something about it we could do street sweeps but that's about it. If we get even 60% of gang affiliated criminals locked up the crime would drop drastically. It's just a matter of maintaining it because they always recruit new members to get stronger.
I see dead cops as a pretty good reason for police to get tough on crime. If you kill a cop in the hood he deserved it, but if you kill a ********** it's racism? People who actually believe that deserve to go into re-education camps. That is plain hypocrisy and the hood mentality as got to go - and that includes you as well. You're only helping organized crime to be powerful by believing and maintaining the myth that they are. You're only perpetrating a myth because it's all testimonial and all blown out of proportion.

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Edit: I didn't know gang-banger was on the censor list
  #156    
Old April 14th, 2013 (11:03 AM). Edited April 14th, 2013 by ShinyUmbreon189.
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How am I helping organized crime? I never said it was okay to murder someone lol and they are capable of getting of what they want by manipulation, it's a game to them. If it was up to me I'd do a street sweep in every city, build the police force even stronger, and have swat teams in close range incase **** hits the fan. That's how you control the crime in bad neighborhoods. You don't just have a cop on the block, that's not gonna solve anything you need an army of them. They can't kill the whole police force, but we can if we wanted to get rid of a good amount of the gang bangers. Actually, I'd have squads of military around that *****.
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  #157    
Old April 14th, 2013 (11:29 AM).
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You're helping them by perpetrating this image of them as being powerful and being able to escape the influence of the law. You're not doing it intentionally, but when you describe criminals in terms of their power versus how they should be removed then that just adds to the culture of fear.

It's kind of like bullying. If people kept trust in their peers and teachers instead of being afraid to do something against bullying, they lose their power. Criminals are not separated from society, so if society rejects them, they will have a hard time doing what they do. Everybody's mind would consider them irrelevant.

If our culture saw them as a menace to society, corrupters of our youth, and a waste of our air instead of people that get away with breaking the law and people you can't stop, then I'm sure we'd be a lot more empowered to take them down. There's a war in the streets but there's also a war in our minds and both of them have to be won.
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  #158    
Old April 14th, 2013 (11:45 AM).
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But if you think about it, it's like this for a reason. If the govt. really wanted to they could do something about it and stop they're crime in a matter of time but they wont. They have no interest in doing so. It's a money issues to get them off the streets, everything that happens in this world (other than what you yourself ) is happening because the govt. allows it or they believe it's needed.

They allow crime because the prison system is a business. Without laws what's the point of law enforcement? But at the same time (say if we didn't have laws) would there be more murders, rapes, robbery's, assaults, drug users, etc? I don't believe there would. There would be the same amount of murders, rapes, robbery's, etc. Only criminals and disturbed minds think it's okay to rape and murder people. Most people don't have what it takes nor wanna live in guilt the rest of they're life. But does that mean the laws shouldn't be there? No, if you murder someone or rape them you're most likely getting caught.

Gun laws, it's easy to break that law just like it's easy to smoke weed and get away with it. You have a very slim chance of getting caught with a gun illegally, but you have a larger chance getting caught with marijuana than a gun. A gun law would be pretty much impossible to enforce unless they're psychic or something and know all the people who have them.
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  #159    
Old April 14th, 2013 (11:50 AM).
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Quote originally posted by ShinyUmbreon189:
Gun laws, it's easy to break that law just like it's easy to smoke weed and get away with it. You have a very slim chance of getting caught with a gun illegally, but you have a larger chance getting caught with marijuana than a gun. A gun law would be pretty much impossible to enforce unless they're psychic or something and know all the people who have them.
But, again, it isn't the gang types that we're concerned about nor arguing gun control would somehow curb it.
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Old April 14th, 2013 (11:52 AM).
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Quote:
They allow crime because the prison system is a business. Without laws what's the point of law enforcement? But at the same time (say if we didn't have laws) would there be more murders, rapes, robbery's, assaults, drug users, etc? I don't believe there would. There would be the same amount of murders, rapes, robbery's, etc. Only criminals and disturbed minds think it's okay to rape and murder people. Most people don't have what it takes nor wanna live in guilt the rest of they're life. But does that mean the laws shouldn't be there? No, if you murder someone or rape them you're most likely getting caught.
I don't know why you believe laws don't do anything. Wouldn't all the people in prison be out and about committing crimes?
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  #161    
Old April 14th, 2013 (12:08 PM).
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That's why I said we need to keep the laws as is. If you murder someone it should be an automatic death penalty if it wasn't self defense. If you rape someone, it should be life in prison. That's not how it is, but that's how it should be. I bet that would snap gang bangers into reality. They're not executing it properly, that's all.
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  #162    
Old April 17th, 2013 (06:01 PM).
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Ladies and gentlemen, the gun-control proposals - including those for background checks - have all been defeated in the Senate. Polls indicated a vast majority of the population in favour of back ground checks, and 60:40 in favour of a ban on assault weapons and limiting magazines to 10 rounds, but the Senate voted to the contrary. So it looks like back to the status quo folks. If you don't like how this turned out, make democracy happen and write to your Senators about how they fell to the gun lobbyists instead of doing their job of representing you.
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  #163    
Old April 17th, 2013 (06:09 PM).
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Well, I wish I could say I was surprised, but I'm not. I'm shaking my head here.
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  #164    
Old April 17th, 2013 (06:47 PM). Edited April 17th, 2013 by CarcharOdin.
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Frankly, neither possible result would've surprised me.

Either the Senate would cave into fear of another Sandy Hook happening again (and sadly something like it will happen again, regardless of gun control) or they would cave into the demands of special interest gun groups.

Anyway, I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand, I'm pissed that some of the more reasonable measures were blocked (like expanding background checks to online deals and gun shows; terrible loophole that needs to be closed). On the other I'm glad that some of the UN-reasonable measures were also blocked (like "military-style weapons", which in my view was essentially "if it looks too intimidating, ban it, regardless of how powerful it really is")
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Old April 17th, 2013 (07:32 PM).
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The bills lacked the votes needed for cloture, is all. It's still a majority. Just not 60 votes.
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Old April 17th, 2013 (09:04 PM).
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I'll run with pro-gun logic here.

Guns don't kill people, people kill people

Yes, people kill people - All the more reason for background checks on people.
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Old April 18th, 2013 (06:31 AM).
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Once again, the Senate/Government has failed to protect its citizens. It's really embarrassing at this point.
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  #168    
Old April 19th, 2013 (07:22 PM).
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You guys didn't believe me.... Well here, it just happened last weekend in Chicago and more people shot than in the Sandy Hook school shooting. I told you guys Chicago had a high body count and crime rate with strict gun laws but kept feeding me bs lies to turn me away from the truth about the media and government brainwashing society. Yea go ahead and ban guns unless you want America to be like Chicago.

Oh and for the record, I won't be responding to idiotic posts.

http://www.freepatriot.org/2013/04/17/the-mass-murder-that-the-media-is-choosing-to-ignore/
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Old April 19th, 2013 (07:29 PM).
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Quote originally posted by ShinyUmbreon189:
You guys didn't believe me.... Well here, it just happened last weekend in Chicago and more people shot than in the Sandy Hook school shooting. I told you guys Chicago had a high body count and crime rate with strict gun laws but kept feeding me bs lies to turn me away from the truth about the media and government brainwashing society. Yea go ahead and ban guns unless you want America to be like Chicago.

Oh and for the record, I won't be responding to idiotic posts.

http://www.freepatriot.org/2013/04/17/the-mass-murder-that-the-media-is-choosing-to-ignore/
Please stop. Leave the hood behind and get back to reality. You do realize guns, poverty, etc, create the very environment you're speaking of? Nobody is advocating for the complete ban of firearms. People are advocating for, and pushing for, common-sense regulations and reasonable limitations. It's not rocket science.
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Old April 19th, 2013 (07:45 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Livewire:
Please stop. Leave the hood behind and get back to reality. You do realize guns, poverty, etc, create the very environment you're speaking of? Nobody is advocating for the complete ban of firearms. People are advocating for, and pushing for, common-sense regulations and reasonable limitations. It's not rocket science.
Me get back to reality? How about you get back in reality and quit living inside of that bubble you've been in for so long. Chicago already has the strictest gun laws and it didn't hit media because, "strictest gun laws". There's no need for it to hit the media because of the gun restriction in Chicago already; but I'm living in a fantasy world? It's not rocket science that the government is trying to manipulate us, they already manipulated the people in Illinois. But I'm just a brainwashed citizen and you're a clear minded citizen... I think it's the other way around, stay brainwashed and believe everything on the media. Mass murders don't happen like this all the time, and I can post what the **** I want if it includes this topic, and it does.
  #171    
Old April 19th, 2013 (07:55 PM). Edited April 19th, 2013 by TRIFORCE89.
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Quote originally posted by ShinyUmbreon189:
You guys didn't believe me.... Well here, it just happened last weekend in Chicago and more people shot than in the Sandy Hook school shooting. I told you guys Chicago had a high body count and crime rate with strict gun laws but kept feeding me bs lies to turn me away from the truth about the media and government brainwashing society. Yea go ahead and ban guns unless you want America to be like Chicago.
How do multiple shootings over the course of several days equate with one mass shooting in one day?

It isn't brainwashing or lying. Things like Sandy Hook shouldn't happen. When they do, people are shocked. Crime in a city laden with gang violence, as you described many times over now, isn't surprising. Although still sad. And it got local news coverage, so it isn't being ignored.

Wouldn't the root of the issue be gangs though in this instance? Not guns.

A couple of years back we had a notoriously bad summer with gun violence. Everyone was outraged and even got a flashy name in the media. But, you know how many people died that summer due to gang/gun violence? 24. We got outraged over 24 over several months. You just had nearly that amount in one weekend.

Your gun laws are not strict, no matter how many times you repeat it. Maybe they are for America, but that just speaks to how poor legislation is on this for that country as whole.

And again, it isn't about banning guns.
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Old April 19th, 2013 (08:32 PM).
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Quote originally posted by ShinyUmbreon189:
Me get back to reality? How about you get back in reality and quit living inside of that bubble you've been in for so long. Chicago already has the strictest gun laws and it didn't hit media because, "strictest gun laws". There's no need for it to hit the media because of the gun restriction in Chicago already; but I'm living in a fantasy world? It's not rocket science that the government is trying to manipulate us, they already manipulated the people in Illinois. But I'm just a brainwashed citizen and you're a clear minded citizen... I think it's the other way around, stay brainwashed and believe everything on the media. Mass murders don't happen like this all the time, and I can post what the **** I want if it includes this topic, and it does.
Yes, because I clearly believe everything Fox tells me. Not everything is a covert government conspiracy, and you really need to realize that. People who propagate those views are preying on people's ignorance and paranoia so that people believe them. Fear is a powerful motivator for people. Don't get sucked into the lunacy. Get a clue, and go do some research. One Midwestern city, as major as it is, is not a microcosm for the country at large.

And, no buddy, you cannot post whatever the '****' you want. I've let this absolute crap stain of a thread go on long enough, and I've let you be for the most part. Stop, unless you'd like to be banned again.
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Old April 19th, 2013 (08:53 PM).
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If he's gone, this thread's basically over eh? Cuz the opinion is split perfectly down the line between him and the rest of us XD But I do believe that respect for one another's intellectual capacity is an important foundation of this sub-forum and that should be prioritized no matter what.

However, you could argue that the discussion was already long over. Either the same arguments are repeated over and over, and rhetorical appeals to "hoodness" increase over time to compensate the lack of original arguments.

He asks other people to exit their bubbles, but in reality he's just stuck in his Chicago suburb. He relies too much on American exceptionalism to take note of different ways other countries deal with gun violence. That to me is a cop out - especially when it's a superficial brushing away and there's no analysis into why X country would be a poor comparison to the United States.

Anyways it's nice to be posting in a discussion & debate thread that is actually about discussion and debate again.
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Old April 19th, 2013 (10:59 PM).
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I think this thread's done. Kaput. Axed. Finito. "Gunned down" if you will.
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Old April 20th, 2013 (12:45 AM).
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Yeah, Live can reopen it if he believes there is still anything to do but as BIS said, we aren't going anywhere and when the utterly conspiranoic words "new world order" have been uttered, it's pretty clear we are in completely different universes.

The purpose of this forum is debating and it's pretty obvious this thread has run its course and we are arguing now so...
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