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  #76    
Old April 14th, 2013, 05:51 PM
Zorua's Avatar
Zorua
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lol outlawing it completely is ridiculous.

Using age as an excuse is ridiculous.

I apologize for sounding rude, and I have good reasons for wording it this way. This is the internet, and regardless of what age you are, if you're on the internet, you are taking personal responsibility for yourself for whatever content you may discover out there. I'm sorry, I am not willing to censor myself because someone under the age of 18 just so happens to find something inappropriate on the server. Do take note that at least 40% of our users happen to be under the age of 18 (not naming names), so that would mean outlawing it completely, which I am highly against.

I feel that the rule should stay in place. If people aren't taking initiative to report it themselves, then we have to make it clear for them to. For those of you who have seen me reiterate time and time again that people should report it to us, then you know what I'm talking about. I feel that the rule currently is fine and should NOT be touched at all.

Let the users have responsibility for their actions for once, instead of us babying all the time. That's not our job. Our job is to moderate, to watch out for people that cross the line and make sure situations get dealt with from there. To assist with users that need help, the whole nine yards.

Last edited by Zorua; April 14th, 2013 at 05:57 PM.
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  #77    
Old April 14th, 2013, 06:09 PM
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GolurkIsDaBomb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twilight Sky View Post
Our job is to moderate, to watch out for people that cross the line and make sure situations get dealt with from there.
But see, that's why I think we need to have some sort of rule. As last night a line definitely was crossed, but it seemed to me that no one knew if they should have done anything about it, and as a result nothing was done. That's why we need to have some sort of line other than don't link pornography, not that it has to be completely strict but I think some clarification is due. I agree censoring everything and banning sex talk/innuendos is ridiculous but miming sexual actions or whatever you'd call what that was last night; there should be something prohibiting it.
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  #78    
Old April 14th, 2013, 06:15 PM
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Zorua
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GolurkIsDaBomb View Post
But see, that's why I think we need to have some sort of rule. As last night a line definitely was crossed, but it seemed to me that no one knew if they should have done anything about it, and as a result nothing was done. That's why we need to have some sort of line other than don't link pornography, not that it has to be completely strict but I think some clarification is due. I agree censoring everything and banning sex talk/innuendos is ridiculous but miming sexual actions or whatever you'd call what that was last night; there should be something prohibiting it.
And I dealt with it as a result. Everyone saw it, everyone thought it was grossed, I dealt with it from there, and I believe that should be pretty much the case with every single sexual discussion. Again, let the responsibility fall on the shoulders of the users, and let them dictate what's appropriate and what's not appropriate, rather than us doing it. Because if we step in, that would look bad on our parts, and we would seem or look too strict, because it seems like we cannot trust our own users to discuss what they want to discuss, which isn't very community-like to me.

Whenever a sexual discussion takes place, let me take this moment to tell you guys that you all have a responsibility as staff on this chat as well: You all are essentially leaders , whether or not you're leaders (rank) or not. You lead the chat, you lead the users, and you tell them which way is right, and which way is wrong, and then you guide them to the right place. However, we are not here for those who wish to just follow. I firmly believe that we have more leaders in our midst, that we have people that have strong shoulders and can carry their own. To do this, we need to step aside, and let the users make those decisions. We shouldn't make those decisions for them when they are perfectly capable of making that themselves.
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  #79    
Old April 14th, 2013, 06:56 PM
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I'm just going to jump in here quickly and say that sexual discussions shouldn't completely be outlawed. However I still believe that it should be reduced since there are a handful of them in just a day, or the hint of one even if it isn't too obvious. It's kind of unfair to use age here you know? I mean young users like myself and Red don't have to look at the chat 24/7, when we find something inappropiate or isn't right to view at our age, we can just close the tab or do something else while the others chat about mature content or sexual discussions etc.

Also I'm just going to add that staff aren't the only ones who can take control of sexual discussions. You can take part as well- even if you're just a regular user or voiced etc. Whether you're an admin or not, you can play a role as well. Now exactly how? You know yourself better than anyone else. You should know what makes you feel uncomfortable or content that goes too far. While others are having sexual discussions, we users don't necessarily have to view and chat along with it, which I think is the point some are forgetting. Not to be rude, but our eyes aren't superglued to the screen 24/7. My point is that we can take our own responsibility and know what's right or wrong for us. If this paragraph doesn't make sense please let me know and I'll try and explain it better.

I mean I admit yesterday the line was crossed, but is it really necessary to ban all sorts of sexual discussions? I'm agreeing with Golurk we need to have a line yes, on how far people should take sexual discussions but banning it completely is just ridiculous. Also the +18 channel, I don't think would really work considering a majority of our users are under the age of 18, so there would hardly be any discussion in that channel if one was to ever come around. But that's just my opinion!
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  #80    
Old April 14th, 2013, 06:58 PM
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I see it as this, ultimately: We see a user that crosses the line, we deal with it just like we deal with anyone else that would (or gets reported). That's really just about it, and I don't see why we need to take things to a whole different level because of it. oO;
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  #81    
Old April 16th, 2013, 09:53 AM
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Updated the rule based on the discussion we had from this.

Quote:
— Avoid posting content that directly refers to sexual intercourse.
Do not post in excessive detail about sexual intercourse. Do not imitate or mime sexual actions. Do not link to pornography, hentai, or any other sexually explicit content. Sexual innuendo is fine, but do not tell the chat in clear detail about what happens during sexual intercourse. Referring to genitals and such is also fine, but it is not okay when you tell us in heavy detail about using them. Server staff may decide to tone down the conversation if they feel that it is getting too far. However, the server is still not family-friendly. Expect to see sex talk every once and a while, as we are very lax on the prevention of mature topics from being discussed. We aim to make the server enjoyable for everyone, so while most people enjoy talking about mature content, others may not. For this reason, you may contact a server staff member and they will help change the topic even if it means using disciplinary action.
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Last edited by wolf; April 16th, 2013 at 11:33 AM.
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  #82    
Old April 16th, 2013, 07:38 PM
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As an extension with that rule, we felt it necessary as the staff to give a speech on issues that have been popping their heads because of it. To read the speech, click here (and please, I urge everyone to read it).
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  #83    
Old April 29th, 2013, 10:28 AM
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We'd like to welcome back GolurkIsDaBomb and tigerBLADE to server staff as mods to cover times where we've had issues covering, as well as Aurora to driver! We have every confidence in the newer additions and we are sure they'll do a great job. Congrats guys!
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Last edited by wolf; April 29th, 2013 at 10:50 AM. Reason: Replaced Miss Doronjo with tigerBLADE.
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  #84    
Old April 30th, 2013, 07:03 AM
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YamiNoBlade Twihiki Amias
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Um guys, PS is like sadly down... 502 proxy error plus that stupid cloudflare message...

So no server for us until whenever this gets fixed... TT__TT

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthr...469932&page=77
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  #85    
Old April 30th, 2013, 09:10 AM
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Just gonna say the server is back on! :3333

YAY
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  #86    
Old April 30th, 2013, 09:11 AM
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And the server is back up everyone!
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  #87    
Old April 30th, 2013, 08:41 PM
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let it go
 
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Okay guys we've had enough. You guys constantly questioning the moderators decisions and stressing them out is terrible behaviour from all of you. Honestly I'm sick of seeing that you guys are constantly questioning auth, we chose the ones we chose for a reason, because they are good at what they do.

We've discussed it, and if you have a legitimate concern with a moderator/driver OR their actions PM either Wolf or me - do not complain about it to the moderators or the chat. Either respect the moderators decisions - all of which try their hardest to make the chat a friendly place for everyone. Don't bother going to the server if you want to cause trouble, start drama, troll, get annoyed over not getting auth, etc. It's as simple as that, if you're trying to ruin others fun then just stop because there's no point.

Quit it; the bad chat environment, the questioning moderators or we will punish you.

If you have a SERIOUS issue tell us. I'm so over hearing this constantly and you guys as community users should act better on your own server, because it's what you make of it, and right now you guys are making it a circus.

It's not fair that server staff have to stress over you guys because you keep misbehaving. From now on if you guys do start questioning their decisions they can and will mute you, because collectively we are all over it. Start behaving, or we'll crack down harder than you can ever imagine.
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  #88    
Old April 30th, 2013, 08:58 PM
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Zorua
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That being said, this is coming fromy myself as well as Michonne/Jellicent. We apologize for letting it go as far as it went.

To be more specific...we have trouble in dealing with situations in which our friends pretty much the central issue of the problem (or at least, contribute to it). Were it some random troll or the likes, this would've never happened. It becomes a very stressful situation, because at the same time, we worry about the punishment affecting the friendship. However, today has demonstrated that letting our "friends" go and do what they want is clearly unacceptable behavior, and after some discussion with Wolf (and some motivating words!) we're going to try our best to be the auth that want to actually be for the server. We're going to start actually treating everyone equally, and no one gets special treatment just because they're our friends, or we know them, or things like that.

Initially, we had this because we were too lenient. We were too nice. We gave our friends the benefit of a doubt, so to speak, because we figure that they would know better out of everyone else to not disrupt the chat, or cause a scene, or anything like that. It seems that today, we were proven wrong, and we made a mistake to not punish those select people for it. And for that, we sincerely apologize, and I hope that you all accept our apology.

However, one thing we do not appreciate is being walked on. I personally feel the need to bring this up, even though Nica pretty much covered in prefect detail. Yes, everyone makes mistakes. And if we mods make mistakes, we apologize for it (heck, I apologized for my modchat earlier), but really, continuous harping on our decisions does not make you look like some kind of hero or savior of the users, or anything like that. In fact, it's quite the opposite--it makes you look bad, and it makes you look like you're beating an already dead horse that got put to rest already. Just quit it. We're humans too, we make mistakes, we aren't the best. We just try to make the chat the best that it can possibly be.

So I think today, we can all use this as a learning experience (especially Michonne and I) as to what to work on as far as our modding styles in the future. Rest assured that chances are, you probably won't ever see this happening again, and if something does go out of control, do report it to the moderators immediately (regardless of who it is, we have to deal with it. It's our job) so we can take care of it.

Thanks guys, and we're ever so proud as always to be part of the staff team here. Remember that everyone comes on the server to have fun, and no one really appreciates that fun being taken away. It certainly just won't do. I kind of felt like today has ruined a lot of people's nights/mornings, and honestly, that's just unacceptable.

So please, again, do not hesitate to come to us with any concern or questions. If we do make mistakes, or misunderstand, please bring it up to us (albeit privately, it does no good to cause a scene of it), and we'll rectify the situation immediately.

Last edited by Zorua; April 30th, 2013 at 09:04 PM.
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  #89    
Old April 30th, 2013, 09:18 PM
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Basically, we appreciate feedback, but not when the chat is derailed into a staff hate campaign. Let me repeat what Nica said using content from in this thread's first post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolflare View Post
You may appeal any sort of disciplinary action or report power abuse by contacting Forever or Wolflare.
But due to recent events, we will be making this into a rule. We'd rather have staff feedback be private between Nica or I, than making constant rebuttals in the chat about the staff's actions. It causes too much drama and nothing good comes out of it when a civilized chat with Nica or I would have been more productive.

Anyway, in response to what specifically happened, I believe that it could have been handled better by the staff. But mistakes happen; not everyone makes the ideal decisions right on the spot every single time. We will use this as a learning experience, and I'll go over with the staff some more about situations like these and how to handle them. After all, our staff team is still very new. So, I apologize on the behalf of the staff for what happened, and I suggest that we move on from this incident and learn from it.
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  #90    
Old May 1st, 2013, 07:09 PM
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Zorua
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Heyyyy server peeps! I remember addressing to you guys exactly about promotions and asking for feedback (and if you haven't read Aslan's beautifully constructed post on the topic, do so now) and all, but I'd rather post it here, just in case anyone has suddenly forgotten.

Okay, so how does this work? Well, it's not hard. It's more like asking for constructive criticism on behavior, usually. If you really want to move up in the ranks of our showdown chat, perhaps sometime in the future, what must you do? What aspects of yourself must you fix? Maybe you shouldn't break as many rules, or maybe you should lessen a certain habit that might appear as disturbing to other users? These and much much more are what our moderators consider when going over candidates, and no one is a clear exception to that. If you Private Message one of our mods, I'm sure they'll be more than happy to tell you what they would think of you as staff, but again do not think in any way that this means we're looking. It's constructive feedback, and should be taken as such.

Also, even if you do follow the advice we give you, do not get your hopes up in any way that you're going to get staffed. Remember, the current staff carefully go over everything (not just about the person themselves. Whether it's necessary to have more auth, and things of that nature), so just because you managed to follow our advice, that doesn't mean you'll get staffed. It just means you're becoming a better user, which is on the right path to perhaps being staffed, but this is just to avoid hurt feelings over promotions. And trust us, from what we've observed, there's a lot of that going around. And hurt feelings doesn't really look good, because that means that you're really on the server for power. .___. Why really go there for power and not have fun like you're supposed to? But I digress.

That said, the advice that is given to you is on a "take it or leave it" basis. We are not bothered either way, because again, you are the person that asked, therefore you must act. ^^; Remember guys, you're the people that make the choices and the decisions and hold the power to stop bad habits. We as the moderation team are merely giving you feedback on what should/shouldn't be done.

In any case, that's all from me. n_n Have an enjoyable time at the server, guys!

Last edited by Zorua; May 1st, 2013 at 07:16 PM.
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  #91    
Old May 1st, 2013, 07:26 PM
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Anti
I forgive you, Chris Bosh.
 
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I have no idea what happened but just going to say that being a PO Server Admin is basically what drove me off PC. I thought I was going to be here through all four years of college and quit before I even got there, and that's why. When your two options are doing your job and then taking a beating for it/juggling three PM windows at once doing damage control or not doing your job and then basically being useless, you don't have a good server environment. I chose the latter and it still was a pit of stress. The truth is that in coming on the server and frequenting it you implicitly agree to be moderated by the people who run it and whoever they appoint and if you don't like it then either bring it up privately or leave, but petty drama is the worst. So is defending every single freaking thing you do instead of enjoying your time on the server--moderators are members first and foremost.

tl;dr: don't make wolf et al leave pc
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  #92    
Old May 4th, 2013, 02:55 PM
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Updated the rules accordingly.
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  #93    
Old May 4th, 2013, 10:35 PM
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on a DLoA
 
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I am here to announce that we are revamping the voice rank. We feel that the server would benefit more from selective voice promotions by encouraging users to be more mature and friendly, rather than simply being active. We think that voice should now be more important; something that respected regulars should be awarded for good behavior. Please don't take this the wrong way though; this doesn't mean that non-voiced members are not welcome on the server. We appreciate everyone who spends their time on the battle server, but we also think that improvements can be made on the community. This is one of those efforts, and could possibly provide an incentive for users to better themselves. We hope you understand.

Anyway, down to the details. We will be demoting all of the voiced users soon. Following that, we will begin choosing people to promote from there. We are essentially starting fresh when it comes to voice.
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  #94    
Old May 6th, 2013, 01:09 PM
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GolurkIsDaBomb
Strawberry Sunrise, no ice.
 
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Not sure if i was everyone, but it seemed to be that our server was down for the collective majority. Anyway, it's working again for some of us!
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  #95    
Old May 6th, 2013, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GolurkIsDaBomb View Post
Not sure if i was everyone, but it seemed to be that our server was down for the collective majority. Anyway, it's working again for some of us!
Indeed, they (Pokemon Showdown) made some changes that required every server to be up-to-date.
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  #96    
Old May 20th, 2013, 12:05 AM
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.Aero
Tell Me I'm A Screwed Up Mess
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I am here to make an appeal to Wolf and Nica.

The alt situation, frankly, is out of hand. Not only is it annoying to myself as well as some other members who agree with me, it causes unneeded confusion. I cannot grasp why users need to have so many different aliases on the server. Is it because they're bored or what? I mean if you're that bored that changing your name and getting a new color is "fun", why not just make a competitive team instead and channel that boredom into something a bit more productive for the benefit of the server?

I mean to realize how bad it is, just look at your user list. It took 45 minutes that one night to de-voice all the users who were voiced. If that's not enough of a reason just take a look at this thread: http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthr...=300005&page=5

Why in the world should a thread used to document alts have 5 pages and only have 48 users on it? It's ridiculous and I believe a rule should be made against multiple alts. It honestly requires me to ask people constantly who they are just because they felt like using a different name for that day. It might not be so bad for auth'd users who can alt check, but for regular members it's just a ****fest of names that change on a daily basis for next to no reason.

I'm not asking for alts to be ruled out completely. I just think a limit should be placed on how many there can be and people have to be a bit more careful when deciding to change their names. If I'm not mistaken, there was a rule created to only allow 3 auth'd alts per moderator. That didn't stop some of them from using more than 3 anyway and just de-auth'ing old ones.

I'm sorry I seem so pissed off, but it's because I am. I honestly can't stand the **** show that is the alt game on the server.

Not to mention the complaining about ugly colors. Stop caring. Seriously.

Input is welcome.
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  #97    
Old May 20th, 2013, 12:29 AM
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Zorua
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I completely disagree.

I feel like just because one person doesn't use alts, doesn't mean that they have to kill the fun for everyone else. Yes, mods change alts, just like any other person. I honestly feel like this is complaining for the sake of complaining. .___. I hardly see it personally get out of hand as everyone is usually the same person regardless. Everyone is more or less easy to tell and I honestly think that you're just blowing it out of proportion, no offense or anything like that.

Quote:
The alt situation, frankly, is out of hand. Not only is it annoying to myself as well as some other members who agree with me, it causes unneeded confusion. I cannot grasp why users need to have so many different aliases on the server. Is it because they're bored or what? I mean if you're that bored that changing your name and getting a new color is "fun", why not just make a competitive team instead and channel that boredom into something a bit more productive for the benefit of the server?
Sorry sir, I don't battle, and I don't want you to force things down my throat that I'm not comfortable with. :\ You say that several users agree with you, but at the same time, we staff have heard absolutely nothing about it?? Honestly, this is the issue that you guys have: Whenever you guys have a problem with anything on the server, you all absolutely refuse (or are too lazy) to bring it up with any of us. and honestly a lot of you (scratch that; the majority of you guys) aren't very proactive in this. This is the absolute (and I'm not even kidding) first time I've ever heard of someone making such a public outcry because of alts, and the only person that has ever had a problem with them is you, Aero. .___.

Quote:
I mean to realize how bad it is, just look at your user list. It took 45 minutes that one night to de-voice all the users who were voiced. If that's not enough of a reason just take a look at this thread: http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthr...=300005&page=5
I firmly believe that alts are really only a problem if wolf/nica are keeping track of promoting them. And that issue only occurs with staff, and literally even then, it happens on a very uncommon basis. I just managed to change two of my accounts, and that's enough to somehow get you outraged (correct me if im wrong)? I've kept my old ones for about a month or two, and they sounded really bad to me. I like to have personality as well as creativity in my names (not to mention I'm fairly picky), and that's just how I choose my names. :\ If someone wanted to ask who I was, then I just say who I am and get it over with. It's not something that anyone should really make a huge deal about, especially since there's less staff than there are members, so usually it's very easy to tell who's who.

Quote:
Why in the world should a thread used to document alts have 5 pages and only have 48 users on it? It's ridiculous and I believe a rule should be made against multiple alts. It honestly requires me to ask people constantly who they are just because they felt like using a different name for that day. It might not be so bad for auth'd users who can alt check, but for regular members it's just a ****fest of names that change on a daily basis for next to no reason.
So you're saying that there should be a rule against multiple alt so it'd just be for your own personal benefit? I apologize if it seems like I'm twisting your words, but that seems a fair bit selfish on your part. If people feel like using a different name, then let them! Who are we to tell them what names they can or can't use to express themselves? If they feel like changing their names one day to something, and then the next day they feel like changing to a different name, then all the more power to them.

And honestly Aero, that thread was created for the specific purpose of checking who people are on the battle server. If someone doesn't check that thread regularly, who's fault is that in the end? You certainly can't blame the people who change alts, because they're usually the ones who update said thread. I just feel this is a completely unfair accusation on your part and for your own gain just so it'd be "easier".

...But sometimes, you have to understand that what's "easier" isn't what's always "efficient" or "fun". This server was created on the grounds of being lax, and honestly, being strict on alts is really going to make a lot more people upset I'd feel, and I'd rather not go through with that.

Quote:
I'm not asking for alts to be ruled out completely. I just think a limit should be placed on how many there can be and people have to be a bit more careful when deciding to change their names. If I'm not mistaken, there was a rule created to only allow 3 auth'd alts per moderator. That didn't stop some of them from using more than 3 anyway and just de-auth'ing old ones.
And what's the problem within that? You didn't argue a specific underlying issue with that. Yes, we're allowed three alts, and that's it. If we were to have any more, we'd have to give up one. And what's the ultimate harm in asking? Considering that 95% of our mods usually keep their names for longer than at least a month or two (that I've observed anyway), I've literally have no problem identifying who's who.

And I agree with Fritz; you rarely interact at all with any of the current auth, it's no wonder you hardly know who any of us are. Aside from myself, I don't feel that you take the time to get to know anyone, and thus always really get confused when people change accounts. For myself, I know who all of the staff are, so even if they change accounts, I would know who they are a good 90% of the time (and if not I could figure out by the way they type, usually).

Quote:
Not to mention the complaining about ugly colors. Stop caring. Seriously.
I really do not like it when people attempt to force their perspective's down other's throats. Again, I apologize if I'm misinterpreting, but I care a lot because colors matters to me. It's hard to explain, I'm an aesthetics person. It's fine if you're different, that's okay with me. Just don't shove it down my throat.
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  #98    
Old May 20th, 2013, 12:41 AM
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Singing Nature's Melody
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .Aero View Post
I am here to make an appeal to Wolf and Nica.

The alt situation, frankly, is out of hand. Not only is it annoying to myself as well as some other members who agree with me, it causes unneeded confusion. I cannot grasp why users need to have so many different aliases on the server. Is it because they're bored or what? I mean if you're that bored that changing your name and getting a new color is "fun", why not just make a competitive team instead and channel that boredom into something a bit more productive for the benefit of the server?

I mean to realize how bad it is, just look at your user list. It took 45 minutes that one night to de-voice all the users who were voiced. If that's not enough of a reason just take a look at this thread: http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthr...=300005&page=5

Why in the world should a thread used to document alts have 5 pages and only have 48 users on it? It's ridiculous and I believe a rule should be made against multiple alts. It honestly requires me to ask people constantly who they are just because they felt like using a different name for that day. It might not be so bad for auth'd users who can alt check, but for regular members it's just a ****fest of names that change on a daily basis for next to no reason.

I'm not asking for alts to be ruled out completely. I just think a limit should be placed on how many there can be and people have to be a bit more careful when deciding to change their names. If I'm not mistaken, there was a rule created to only allow 3 auth'd alts per moderator. That didn't stop some of them from using more than 3 anyway and just de-auth'ing old ones.

I'm sorry I seem so pissed off, but it's because I am. I honestly can't stand the **** show that is the alt game on the server.

Not to mention the complaining about ugly colors. Stop caring. Seriously.

Input is welcome.
I feel like you're overreacting a bit. Most all of us have alts; you're one of the few that refuses to have one. I'd say that makes you a bit of a minority in that way, but that's not all that my argument consists of.

Our usernames are what we use to express ourselves; our moods, our desires, our feelings, our passions, our favorite things, and/or even things we are. PC itself is incapable of allowing name changes for a technical reason that we soon hope to overcome; but I see no reason to create such artificial limitations like that just because you don't like to look up in the directory of people who voluntarily show which names they have registered to them.

I assure you that nobody on the Server has particularly been able to abuse their pseudo-anonymity in any significantly disruptive way the staff of our server and creators of Pokemon Showdown haven't already addressed. I don't think that anyone has been any cause of any problems because of it, nor has it caused anyone any problems other than a minor inconvenience while they go look at the list. While it makes logical sense from an access control perspective to expect our staff and authed users to maintain their powers on only a few alts, I do not believe there is any logical reason to force users into the same position.

Even if such a rule were created, I would flat out refuse to honor it; even if I could never come back. I think most of the server would feel the same way. Even Nica or Wolf would have to realize that it would alienate a lot of people.

I strongly recommend that the staff do not consider limiting users alts. While it might seem to improve things for some users; it would ruin the positive experiences that many more users have had thus far. While I myself get confused from time to time about who is who; I believe we can address this problem quickly and efficiently so that all can have an enjoyable experience.
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  #99    
Old May 20th, 2013, 01:02 AM
Zorua's Avatar
Zorua
Adventurous One.
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Join Date: Apr 2005
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Here's my full-out opinion on limiting alts:

I personally feel that it would be damaging the overall environment and purpose of the server.

We want our users to have fun. When considering implementing rules like these, it hinders that kind of "fun". I firmly believe that people have the option to have alts if they want to have them, and we shouldn't restrict that by any means. Not everyone uses an alt, of course! I personally don't really care who does or who doesn't use alts, but the underlying problem in this is that it's there for people who use them

We are not some dictatorship server. The only rules we enforce here are the rules that PC enforces itself. That's really about it. Creating alternate accounts isn't banned here at PC, so pray tell, why should it be banned on the server? Because of colors? Honestly, leave them alone. Let people do what they want, and if they want to make a big deal about colors, so be it. As I mentioned in my last post, I'm purely and aesthetic person, and I like my colors. I understand that not everyone is like me. Not everyone takes colors as seriously as myself, or perhaps my fellow mods. But at the same time, it's reassuring to know that if we do need to change alts for the sake of a "better looking color" that we can.

I think the issue is just too subjective to actually touch on and enforce any rule upon whatsoever. The reason why I sounded so upset in my last post was primarily because I felt you were shoving your own biases and dislikes down other people's throats. The way you acted (although some may have seen your point), was fairly irrational, and it placed me in a difficult position to even take you seriously at that point.

It's not just that though...

I feel that, well, imaging this rule was enforced, it'd make the server less fun than what it is. I personally like how people identify themselves with different alternate accounts. It adds personality, and it shows the kind of person that they are. Feel free to disagree with me (as you might see things differently), but that's really how I see things, and that's a lot of the reason why I enjoy this server: each person's personality, and how each and every person is just different. They're allowed to express that through an alt for all I care. Why should I tell them that they can't? Because I don't want them to? I personally believe that's a fairly selfish and insensitive way to go about with things. To emphasize on my point in the first paragraph, it's there for those who want to use them. If you don't have an alt, and disagree with them, then more power to you. Don't use them. That's easily the simplest solution there is to it, and I don't feel that it needs to apply to each and every single user on the server.

That and well, the staff have already had this discussion with wolf anyway. Or at least, I did.

Back when the voiced promotions were starting, I asked wolf how many alts voiced users are allowed to have. Whether they're allowed to have unlimited voiced alts, or whether they're allowed to have 3. I understand the position where you're coming from, yes, we staff are allowed 3 and we can pretty much demote/promote as we please, as long as we keep it to a limit of three. But understand there's only 6 (?) staff members as compared to 20 voiced users. At that time, wolf decided that voiced users should have unlimited alts because it'd be more convenient to promote them. If voiced users had limited alts, then it'd just be more of a hassle because well...they would be having the same problem as mods are apparently having now: having to promote/demote more, while keeping the same amount to 3. So his solution was just to promote voiced alts without the necessity of demoting, to make things easier.

And honestly, that's the only solution I see going around about it. It worked for voiced users (who rarely use alts in the first place, from what I've seen. I can be wrong, though), so why not make it work for staff? Though at this point, I expect you to vehemently disagree with me as far as unlimited accounts for staff; but the point being is that it works, and very rarely have I personally had any confusion with any voiced user and who they were (I can probably count them on one hand).

I feel this is one of those proposals that puts people in a very tight spot. You really don't want to do that, or rather, have that effect on others. Alts are a pretty big deal on the server, because, again, they're there for when people need them, and when they do, they tend to change into them and keep them for like a good month or two anyway. I ultimately feel that, if any restriction were to be placed on alts, that a requirement would be to have them for at least a set amount of time since....that already happens? I mean...say if Nica were to promote the two new accounts that I created. I would have to keep them for an x amount of time, something that I already do anyway before switching to a different account.

That's really the only way I can see it going about happening with staff members. Regular users? Forget it, there's just way too many of them to even think about imposing alternate account limitations.
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  #100    
Old May 20th, 2013, 01:28 AM
.Aero's Avatar
.Aero
Tell Me I'm A Screwed Up Mess
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Join Date: Jun 2007
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Let me preface this post with some thoughts:

1) I did not want to respond.
2) If I don't respond, you guys will think you've won.
3) You guys have won anyway because you're making me do something I don't want to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Twilight Sky View Post
I completely disagree.

I feel like just because one person doesn't use alts, doesn't mean that they have to kill the fun for everyone else. Yes, mods change alts, just like any other person. I honestly feel like this is complaining for the sake of complaining. .___. I hardly see it personally get out of hand as everyone is usually the same person regardless. Everyone is more or less easy to tell and I honestly think that you're just blowing it out of proportion, no offense or anything like that.
I don't see how me having one alt is relevant in the slightest. Not to mention you saying I'm complaining just to complain bothers me a whole lot. I do not enjoy playing this game you guys have made of these alts. I feel like every time I come on the server there's someone who I think is a new member, then I notice they're chatting up a storm and I realize "hey, this is somebody's alt." I'm then required to either check the thread (which I will get to later), or ask the person directly. Every day. It's ridiculous.


Quote:
Sorry sir, I don't battle, and I don't want you to force things down my throat that I'm not comfortable with. :\
Suggesting team building was just that. A suggestion. You don't have to go build a team if you don't want to. I'm also not directly targeting you. Some users like to pretend they enjoy battling but when put into the situation where they actually have to do something, like battle, they back out but have no problem discussing unintelligible ******** on the server.

Quote:
You say that several users agree with you, but at the same time, we staff have heard absolutely nothing about it?? Honestly, this is the issue that you guys have: Whenever you guys have a problem with anything on the server, you all absolutely refuse (or are too lazy) to bring it up with any of us. and honestly a lot of you (scratch that; the majority of you guys) aren't very proactive in this. This is the absolute (and I'm not even kidding) first time I've ever heard of someone making such a public outcry because of alts, and the only person that has ever had a problem with them is you, Aero. .___.
I said some users agree with me. You not having heard of it must have been a coincidence because not only do I bring it up a lot, but a couple other members have been vocal about it in the chat as well. Not as serious as I have become now. You stating I don't bring it up is also bothersome because I've reached my tipping point and here I am, asking wolf and nica to do something about it. That...that argument from you I just don't get.

Quote:
I firmly believe that alts are really only a problem if wolf/nica are keeping track of promoting them. And that issue only occurs with staff, and literally even then, it happens on a very uncommon basis. I just managed to change two of my accounts, and that's enough to somehow get you outraged (correct me if im wrong)? I've kept my old ones for about a month or two, and they sounded really bad to me. I like to have personality as well as creativity in my names (not to mention I'm fairly picky), and that's just how I choose my names. :\ If someone wanted to ask who I was, then I just say who I am and get it over with. It's not something that anyone should really make a huge deal about, especially since there's less staff than there are members, so usually it's very easy to tell who's who.
You may believe the only issue with alts is keeping track of who is staff and who isn't. I find it tiresome and repetitive to constantly have to ask people who the hell they are. It's irritating. And you're acting like I'm speaking about staff only. I'm not. I'm talking about everyone. Sure, the limited amount of staff members helps narrow it down on who's who in the staff, but what about regular members? That doesn't help at all.

Quote:
So you're saying that there should be a rule against multiple alt so it'd just be for your own personal benefit? I apologize if it seems like I'm twisting your words, but that seems a fair bit selfish on your part. If people feel like using a different name, then let them! Who are we to tell them what names they can or can't use to express themselves? If they feel like changing their names one day to something, and then the next day they feel like changing to a different name, then all the more power to them.
Yes, I want this for my own benefit, but I also want it for a group benefit as well as efficiency and less of a mess. Elf was looking for battles the other day with specific people but didn't know who anyone was for two reasons: 1) He wasn't aware of the alt thread. 2) That person was going by a name even I didn't recognize so I couldn't help him out. If alts weren't so abundant it wouldn't have been an issue. There's nothing wrong with expressing yourself through your name. Absolutely nothing wrong. The thing I can't understand is why we need 10+ alts to express ourselves. Sure, the limit could be 5 for all I care. I just don't want someone changing it on a daily basis, because of what I will get into on the next part.

Quote:
And honestly Aero, that thread was created for the specific purpose of checking who people are on the battle server. If someone doesn't check that thread regularly, who's fault is that in the end? You certainly can't blame the people who change alts, because they're usually the ones who update said thread. I just feel this is a completely unfair accusation on your part and for your own gain just so it'd be "easier".
This thread. This thread is not useful. People will make alts daily and not post them to the thread. Why? Because they don't plan on keeping the alt longer than that single day. There have been multiple occasions weeks ago where I would go to the thread in order to figure out who someone was only to find that alt not there. If the thread's purpose is to help me do just that, figure out who someone is, why is it failing in its purpose? Because of repeated attempts to use that thread and it failing, I stopped bothering.

Quote:
...But sometimes, you have to understand that what's "easier" isn't what's always "efficient" or "fun". This server was created on the grounds of being lax, and honestly, being strict on alts is really going to make a lot more people upset I'd feel, and I'd rather not go through with that.
So you're telling me having to ask someone anytime they make an alt who they are is more efficient than just knowing? I'd like to know your definition of efficient. We can have fun with discussions. Not to mention I've noticed the discussions revolve around very few topics. One of which is alts and colors. This topic shows up multiple times a week and is not in any way "fun" or interesting and doesn't promote actual discussion, because if you watch these topics go down, people ignore each other because they're so focused on obtaining the right name / color. If your argument is that the server is meant to be more social than a battling server (which I agree with completely), I see no socializing happening when this chat erupts.

Quote:
And what's the problem within that? You didn't argue a specific underlying issue with that. Yes, we're allowed three alts, and that's it. If we were to have any more, we'd have to give up one. And what's the ultimate harm in asking? Considering that 95% of our mods usually keep their names for longer than at least a month or two (that I've observed anyway), I've literally have no problem identifying who's who.
Underlying problem stated above. No discussion as a result of the alt / color obsession. You've had no problem identifying who's who. I do. Maybe I'm not as apt at it though. You've gotta account for members like myself who can't just tell who someone is by the way they type. I can only do that with four members because they are extremely distinct:

1) Elf: bean, lol laugh at my own jokes
2) Anti: history rants / basketball
3) Lala: talks like an old man farmer
4) Syndrome: Is always cynical

Quote:
And I agree with Fritz; you rarely interact at all with any of the current auth, it's no wonder you hardly know who any of us are. Aside from myself, I don't feel that you take the time to get to know anyone, and thus always really get confused when people change accounts. For myself, I know who all of the staff are, so even if they change accounts, I would know who they are a good 90% of the time (and if not I could figure out by the way they type, usually).
You you you. You can do that. I cannot. It's not because I don't know you guys. I've talked to Fritz on multiple occasions one on one, especially during my insomnia days a few months back. I know Jake like a brother, so much so we've considered ourselves twins for years and I consider him my best friend that I've ever made on the internet, but if you notice I did not list him in the 4 people I can tell apart by the way they type. Like I said, I must just not be good at thing and you have to account for people like me.

Quote:
I really do not like it when people attempt to force their perspective's down other's throats. Again, I apologize if I'm misinterpreting, but I care a lot because colors matters to me. It's hard to explain, I'm an aesthetics person. It's fine if you're different, that's okay with me. Just don't shove it down my throat.
You're acting like I'm calling you out specifically. Your entire post was that way and I'm going to address it now. I am not targeting you specifically, Derk. Maybe it's because your alt changes just now threw me over the top, but stop thinking that way. You are not the target of this rule so don't act like it. There are many members who use too many alts to handle. Also i'm not trying to out rule alts and you're acting like I am. I'm saying put a cap on it. It could be 5 for all I care, I just don't want to see people changing their names daily and I can't keep up because they don't post it in the thread or only decide to have it for a day and ditch it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pachy View Post
I feel like you're overreacting a bit. Most all of us have alts; you're one of the few that refuses to have one. I'd say that makes you a bit of a minority in that way, but that's not all that my argument consists of.
Minorities have no say I guess is the basis of your argument. That's always fun to deal with.

Quote:
Our usernames are what we use to express ourselves; our moods, our desires, our feelings, our passions, our favorite things, and/or even things we are. PC itself is incapable of allowing name changes for a technical reason that we soon hope to overcome; but I see no reason to create such artificial limitations like that just because you don't like to look up in the directory of people who voluntarily show which names they have registered to them.

I assure you that nobody on the Server has particularly been able to abuse their pseudo-anonymity in any significantly disruptive way the staff of our server and creators of Pokemon Showdown haven't already addressed. I don't think that anyone has been any cause of any problems because of it, nor has it caused anyone any problems other than a minor inconvenience while they go look at the list. While it makes logical sense from an access control perspective to expect our staff and authed users to maintain their powers on only a few alts, I do not believe there is any logical reason to force users into the same position.

Even if such a rule were created, I would flat out refuse to honor it; even if I could never come back. I think most of the server would feel the same way. Even Nica or Wolf would have to realize that it would alienate a lot of people.

I strongly recommend that the staff do not consider limiting users alts. While it might seem to improve things for some users; it would ruin the positive experiences that many more users have had thus far. While I myself get confused from time to time about who is who; I believe we can address this problem quickly and efficiently so that all can have an enjoyable experience.
I mean, just read my response to Derk. You just kind of reiterated what he already said. Thanks I guess for saving me time.

Also I'm not responding to further posts because this is a load of ********.
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