The PokéCommunity Forums  

Go Back   The PokéCommunity Forums > Current Generation Pokémon Gaming > Battling & Team Building
Sign Up Rules/FAQ Live Battle Blogs Mark Forums Read

Notices

Battling & Team Building The forum designed for all of your Pokémon battling needs! Here you can battle, discuss, participate in events, receive help on your team, and much more!


Reply
Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.  
Thread Tools
  #126    
Old May 26th, 2013, 10:58 AM
Zorua's Avatar
Zorua
Adventurous One.
Community Supporter
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Gender: Female
Nature: Gentle
Here's what I think of it:

I kind of just don't know what to think anymore. Initially, there was too many complaints about sexual discussions, and now I see discussions about the PG-13 rule being brought back. It's kind of a really confusing case of "what do you guys even want anymore"? You guys have to realize that the only reason h-staff is even strict about this is...well of course this is PC, but a separate reason besides that is apparently because of complaints they've been getting about how sexual the chat has been, things of that nature.

It's not a surprise to any of the staff at the server that our userbase is so diverse when it comes to what kinds of topics can be discussed. We know that there are people that are comfortable with discussing it, and we know that there are those that are uncomfortable with discussing it. They both come to the server, and they both want to have fun at the server. It's of no surprise that no one can exactly be happy, because as soon as one side gets their way, the other side gets really upset about it, and makes a complaint. That goes double if it was vice-versa.

The problem that I exactly see with disassociating with PC is the fact that it would only get rid of the PG-13 rule...and then what? Have more people complain about sexual topics like they've always done? Obviously we can't kick those people out, because we're not dictators like that, and we have to respect their wishes too. So in a sense, I don't know about any of the other staff at the server feel, but personally speaking, I kind of feel that we're in a deep pit since regardless of what we do, no one is really going to be satisfied with it.

Of course, anyone is free to correct me if I'm missing something here.
Reply With Quote
  #127    
Old May 26th, 2013, 11:52 AM
Lilith's Avatar
Lilith
Protect his very soul.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Florida
I'll explore the likelihood of disassociating the battle server from PC, but in the mean time, it is the responsibility of the server staff to make the server as appropriate as possible. You have some freedom, you can be laid-back and such, f-bomb being allowed there and all. However, don't be so explicitly gross (even sometimes towards regulars or staff!) that you discourage some members from wanting to be there. Don't 'jokingly' insult nor defame other members using sexual imagery.

You can find a sort of middle-ground with the userbase, but you'd still have to follow the new rule Wolf just explained. Showdown is linked to on the newest PC skin, so there's another reason why I mind what goes on in Showdown.

Note that the Pokemon Clubs and Trade channels are still linked in the section rules and announcement, respectively. They aren't separated from PC. Trade's channel is still used during official events. On the channel, there are plenty of older members above the age of 20. There are members who are married and/or have children. Even so, I can't think of a time when sexually explicit details/insults were the main topic. It is doable to have a clean and amusing chat with friends.
__________________
Even if it's a short life, burn hot and bright and overtake the moment. That's my way of life.
Reply With Quote
  #128    
Old May 26th, 2013, 02:15 PM
wolf's Avatar
wolf
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
I don't see what the problem is. It's not difficult to be appropriate, and the sex jokes were getting very old and stale. I don't mind a few subtle sexual innuendos here and there, but it's crossing the line when they're dropped constantly. I see it like this: there are always going to be people that like inappropriate content in the server, and those that don't. PC grants us a chance to advertise the server on one of the largest Pokemon forums, and majority of our community has found the server via PC. To simply ditch its support and run solo just so we can be more vulgar would be a very arrogant decision. The battle server is more active than ever, and we have the potential to make it more active. Do you folks really want to change that?

If you guys are really desperate, we can make a small, separate channel on the server where the ban on inappropriate content doesn't apply. While this would take away some activity from the main lobby, it would be better than cutting the line between the server and PC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anti View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twilight Sky View Post
Also, I do agree that this is arguing over quite a minor issue. u__u;;;
Just going to let the irony/complete lack of self-awareness sink in here.

I agree anyway though. I can't think of a dumber thing to argue about. I actually can't. Someone help me. Aero brought up a minor issue, Wolf can deal with it as he sees fit, and...oh wait, that's it. That's how it should always be.
__________________
pc battle server / skype: awolffromspace / avatar source
Reply With Quote
  #129    
Old May 28th, 2013, 04:53 PM
Dark Azelf's Avatar
Dark Azelf
ThisWillBeTheEndOfEveryth ing.
Community Supporter
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Age: 23
Gender: Male
Nature: Impish
Well the problem is the fact we are being kicked and muted even when we dont drop them all the time. The rules are arbitrary and terrible. You are failing to see the fact and if i didnt make this obvious and clear before, so ill bold it so you get the point, THE RULES ABOUT THIS ARE HORRIBLE AND NOT A SINGLE MEMBER WHO IS A REGULAR WANTS THEM IN EFFECT. People who dont come on the server regularly really shouldnt have a say tbqh. Sorry if that sounded rude, but we dont want them i cant make it any more clear. Just ask people.

If you are gonna cry and drop your bottle and pacifier (well i mean, the rules hint at this as we are assumed to be tweens) when someone mentions the birds or bee's dont click the following spoiler.

Spoiler:


I got muted and warned for making a joke about sex toys

Nica then posted this;

[01:30] ~skylight: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...6131211AAvgdwP

So as you can see, its really arbitrary.


13 year olds are exposed to this on a daily basis and from the above link are clearly "active" in that way. In addition most of us are over the age of 13. Seriously what the hell is this, kindergarden ?

No one agrees with the rules on the server, do i really have to requote myself or nica from earlier posts in this thread ? Everyone thinks the rule are retarded. We dont want an IRC v.2.0. Also when you have your own mods and drivers on the server thinking they are terrible;

[01:30] @Liam Payne: New rules suck
[01:30] @Liam Payne: For serious

(just some more evidence)

You know you are really doing something wrong lol.

Its not harming activity in the slightest. So uhh WHY ARE THEY in effect ? Luke never cared, so once again, why are they in effect now ? Also its really contradictory as wolf said "we arent really associated with pc now and are a separate entity", why go back on this now ?


EDIt:
I could understand if it was 247 but its not. it just seems enforced because of some random. Ive not spoken to a single person who likes them, im being deadly serious.

[02:12] +Zαyn Mαlik: I don't get why now all of a sudden we're trying to eradicate part of what makes this community what it is.
[02:12] +Zαyn Mαlik: It wasn't a problem for 6 years at least
[02:12] +Zαyn Mαlik: why is it a problem now

^also
__________________
Pair x [23:25] =Sanguine: take meh with your mighty staff

Last edited by Dark Azelf; May 28th, 2013 at 05:15 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #130    
Old May 28th, 2013, 05:22 PM
Zorua's Avatar
Zorua
Adventurous One.
Community Supporter
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Gender: Female
Nature: Gentle
Well, here's the thing (and don't rip into me elf, I see what you're saying, and I'm not disagreeing with you in any chance, just expressing my opinion), I personally feel that this is a case of people screaming into our ear about the chat and how we don't do much to improve it, whatever, putting a huge amount of pressure on us and having superhuman expectations. Not going to lie, lately the chat hasn't been all that fun, because as happy as I seem to be each and everyday, it feels more like a job (well no ****), and it sucks that we have to discipline our regulars for a simple mention of the birds and bees when honestly, many children of this generation know probably more about the human anatomy than we do currently, just saying.

You see d_a, the very reason that I personally feel that this is going on in the first place is because of various complaints that we've gotten about the topic. It's not complaints to us, it's complaints to the higher staff (I can be wrong about this, though, but just as a safe assumption). And it's because of this that the higher staff have decided to step in, and wanted us to be more stricter about enforcing the rules. Which is fine and dandy and all at first, I guess there's nothing wrong if discussions go TOO far. But how far is too far, really? Is it entirely banned, or...? That line really hasn't been established (as far as I know), and it's because of this that we kick basically on the basis of any mention of the word "sex", in which I personally find is ludicrous.

It's very stressful for me because it's a very tough situation for us staff to be in. On one hand, this is a chat that's for everyone not just for one group. We are a not a clique by any means, we are a battle server that is public for the entirety of PC to use, and that is our purpose. Actually, let me re-word that: our purpose is to have a comfortable environment for all of PC so they can have healthy discussions, and everyone would get along, sing kum ba yah under a fire, roast marshmallows, and then everyone can get along.

...But this doesn't happen. Why is that? Everyone else has a problem with what everyone is discussion. This is turning into some kind of war between our server regulars vs the new people. It shouldn't be the way! We should encourage new people to join our server, and they can discuss whatever they want without any hesitation. This is why I preferred the old rules better when anyone could PM us staff if they were uncomfortable with said discussion, because if they didn't contact us, then that would be their responsibility and we would just run on the assumption that they're okay with it. I'm pretty sure they can make conscious and healthy decisions to what the chat environment should be, so they should communicate with us as far as what kind of environment they'd see best for the server if they don't feel uncomfortable with. And if they want to change the topic, then by all means, they should, just have something to talk about so we avoid being dead. That's really all there is to it.

As staff of the server, it's very stressful for me (I don't know how the other staff feel, I'll let them speak for themselves if they wish) to see people just tackle each other over and over about the topics, and it confuses me at the same time because never before have I ever really saw anything like this, not on any of PC's chat mediums. Not when I was active on PC's IRC, not when I was active on tradechat, none of those things, and yet I'm seeing it here.

In short, we are stuck between a rock and a hard place because our new users make the community what it is today. You regulars were new users at one point in time too, I'm sure you guys wouldn't like it to have your opinion disregarded, so I don't see why we should disregard theirs. At the same time, let them take responsibility for themselves for how the chat should be. If they don't report it, then that is their issue and something that's on their shoulders.

Just thought I'd give my two cents. I'm sorry if this doesn't make much sense, but I'll be more than happy to clarify as necessary. It is just very taxing on me to see the same fights over the same issue every time with exactly no solution towards it (that I see, anyway).
Reply With Quote
  #131    
Old May 28th, 2013, 05:22 PM
wolf's Avatar
wolf
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
We're a part of PC. As such, we follow their rules. Simple as that. The only options we have are: split up from PC and run solo, or convince the higher staff to allow mature content on PC. I explained that I don't want to do the former, and the latter option isn't likely going to be successful. In the end, all this would accomplish is changing the rules so we can crack a few more sex jokes. Is it really worth it? I don't think so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Azelf View Post
Also its really contradictory as wolf said "we arent really associated with pc now and are a separate entity", why go back on this now ?
When did I ever say this? I have said in the past that the battle server and BC are separate entities with their own different communities, but that's irrelevant to this discussion.
__________________
pc battle server / skype: awolffromspace / avatar source

Last edited by wolf; May 28th, 2013 at 05:36 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #132    
Old May 28th, 2013, 09:51 PM
Troye's Avatar
Troye
► My Happy Little Pill 
Community Supporter
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: New York
Gender: Male
Nature: Lax
People need to stop name dropping me so I don't have to get in these debates. Also I'm too tired to make anything relatively coherent so you're getting bullet points:
  • Yes, I think the new rule is dumb. I think the fact that people chose to go to HStaff instead of just reading the server rules that clearly stated you could PM us to change the subject is dumb. But that's in the past, so I'm over it.
  • Yes, we have to follow PC's rules. No, I don't personally love it. We haven't really for 5 or 6 years, so the sudden change is just weird I guess since we've always been affiliated (minus the linking in the header).
  • No, we shouldn't break off. That'd be really really dumb.
  • Wolf's suggestion for a seperate channel: 10/10 would vote for again. Seriously, everyone gets what they want, and it's enter at your own risk. If you don't like the content there...don't go there. Pretty simple.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #133    
Old May 28th, 2013, 09:59 PM
Forever's Avatar
Forever
let it go
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: http://goo.my/server
Age: 22
Gender: Female
I just made "Mature Room" for those type of chats, which is PG 13+, so anything flies, but beware what you're getting into when joining it as we will not be heavy on you guys in terms of sexual content, just make sure you follow every other rule while there though.

To get there, type exactly as is below:
Quote:
/join Mature Room
But if Wolf would rather make a separate one that's fine too, but this one will do for now!

However keep in mind not to post porn, or anything else that would break our otherwise global rules, such as spamming, or disrespecting someone.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #134    
Old May 29th, 2013, 12:40 AM
Starry Windy's Avatar
Starry Windy
Bring your melody to life
Community Supporter
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Hoenn Region
Gender: Male
Nature: Modest
Send a message via Skype™ to Starry Windy
Looks like Mature Room is not the only room in this server.
A special room called Lyrics is also there (also made by Nica aka Forever!)

You could type this if you want to join it!
Quote:
/join Lyrics
You could post lyrics of your fave songs there!
__________________
Starry Windy
PC Supporter since January 4th, 2014
“And remember I do hope you keep shining bright!” - Hikamaru
Pairs | PC Family | My PC Blog | Twitter | Tumblr
Reply With Quote
  #135    
Old May 29th, 2013, 05:47 AM
Anti's Avatar
Anti
I forgive you, Chris Bosh.
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Ohio
Age: 15
Gender: Male
Nature: Serious
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blubberchomp
I have said in the past that the battle server and BC are separate entities with their own different communities, but that's irrelevant to this discussion.
Of course it's relevant. A strict ban on mature content (however immaturely it may be expressed) is inconsistent with the policy the battling community has always had. I feel like D_A and myself, by far the longest tenured S&Mers here, find the ban especially ridiculous. Maybe that's not a coincidence? S&M always had the freedom to shrug off PC's onerous "heaven forbid some ten-year-old who is a few clicks away from much worse content and who probably hears swearing every day at school be exposed to it on the freaking internet" burden. It seems to me like the idea behind disassociation is that the server's association with PC is a burden if that is no longer the case, which suggests that the server has always had its own identity and imposing the values of the rest of the forum ultimately lacks legitimacy with the remnants of the battling community. (Disassociation is a horrible idea though, uhhhh we're all from PC aren't we? And just like the username thing this issue is quite trivial and pointless. I totally get the principle behind it though.)

If the hint isn't explicit enough, what I'm getting that is that maybe it's a bad idea entirely that people who build teams, ladder, and, uh, care about Pokemon share the same server as people who seem to primarily care about changing their usernames and their respective colors? I know, I know: PC doesn't really have a battling community anymore. Maybe these circumstances have something to do with it? Just because I don't want to be blowing hot air here, my "evidence" for what I'm saying is just my own experience. When I started battling again, I naturally popped back up, albeit rather infrequently, to PC and its server, but the only person who seemed willing to actually have a battle was (I'm sure this is a coincidence too!!!!) my former S&M mod partner D_A! I have basically stopped playing since not only do I have no friends to play with but there is NO prospect of that improving. I think it's a joke and a travesty that someone actively looking to battle (and the former server and forum mod, no less) literally has to go elsewhere to find even a low level battle. If Showdown is becoming the new IRC or whatever then fine, but can S&M at least have a place where its own community can gather again, reestablish its existence, and govern itself? If they're two different communities as you said, shouldn't they not have to convene in the same place? If the official response to a post like this is "what do you expect?" then maybe we have a disconnect.
__________________
Gone with the wind. (But still hanging around because why not?)

~wolf: defeated every lead except elf :>
d_a-bread house: what about metagross
~wolf: ok that too

Last edited by Anti; May 29th, 2013 at 06:44 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #136    
Old May 29th, 2013, 01:42 PM
wolf's Avatar
wolf
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
I agree with you, Anti, but I don't think there's anything viable that can be done in regards to allowing mature content in the main lobby. This is the PC Battle Server, and while it may not be directly connected with the forum, it is still associated with PC and its staff. The battle server may have gotten away with allowing mature content in the past, but higher staff eventually found out and are now taking action. I could convince the higher staff to allow vulgar, overly sexual content (to little or no success), but nothing of much value will come out of it. I like being sexually explicit from time to time as much you guys, but I don't think it's worth going through the trouble of allowing it, especially when we have a perfectly fine channel for everyone to go crazy in. There are regulars who don't like discussing or mentioning mature content, and there are those that do. We can't please everyone.

As for the issue with using one chat for both non-battlers and battlers, perhaps we could try making a separate channel with a focus on battling and whatnot. It's essentially the same as using different servers, but we don't have go through the trouble of having to host two servers at once. While I have been more concerned with utilizing the forum instead of a server as a way for establishing an active battle community, I don't see the harm in trying out the channel. However, just like a separate server, it will require some dedication from some members to make it work. Otherwise, it would still be difficult finding a battle.
__________________
pc battle server / skype: awolffromspace / avatar source

Last edited by wolf; May 29th, 2013 at 01:51 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #137    
Old May 29th, 2013, 01:52 PM
Zorua's Avatar
Zorua
Adventurous One.
Community Supporter
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Gender: Female
Nature: Gentle
I would like to remind everyone that Showdown (for whatever reason or another) does not actually have the "autojoin" feature that was prevalent back in the Pokemon Online days. That said, it is up to you for every time that you join, that you have to type /join (whatever channel you want to join here). There is also no official list of all of the channels, so unfortunately you're going to have to rely on memory for if, sometime in the future, more channels are created.

It is because of these missing features that channels might not be enjoyed 100%. But just bear with what we're given for now, I'm sure there might be some update in the future that might make this feasible.
Reply With Quote
  #138    
Old May 29th, 2013, 03:06 PM
Anti's Avatar
Anti
I forgive you, Chris Bosh.
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Ohio
Age: 15
Gender: Male
Nature: Serious
I appreciate that you're taking my concern into account but I must object to the idea that the channel is going to solve the problem I'm pinpointing. No auto-join sucks too, though it's not a big deal.

I think that really there is importance in symbolism in a forum having its own physically separate space. We're just not the same community. Is having a separate server really too much to ask? Maybe it is for practical tech reasons--if someone could speak to that, that would be wonderful--but I feel like having a server to call our own actually matters. I just can't get past the fact that the so-called Battle Server would need a channel for the sake of...battling. Shouldn't the Battle Server be for battling? The battling community? I feel like that's just kinda weird. Not saying that the current server shouldn't exist or something but my my the Battle Server is quite the misnomer. Our gathering space is just some minor part of something else in the case of a channel. Something just feels off about that.

On a more practical note (and the one of real magnitude), the staff would still be the same in a channel. How many of the current staff members are even half as qualified to operate an actual battling server as D_A and I are? How many of them have played an actual competitive battle in the past month? (RANDBATS DOES NOT COUNT.) I also suspect that rules and especially their enforcement would be way different (read: more lax [+def, -sdef]) which is pretty awkward. And the culture of the server? I don't think I even need to say what would be different, lol.

I mean, if a channel is the best we can do, fine. I'm not going to turn down what is admittedly an improvement (as if I have the sole authority to). But I think it's a little naive to think that having a separate channel serves to differentiate the way I'm talking about. Unless there is indeed a practical barrier I see no reason not to just separate them.

...And while I haven't talked to D_A or anyone else about it, yes, I'd be willing to do the little moderation required if you wouldn't want to juggle two servers. And I realize that the battle server would run into an old S&M problem--inactivity--quite quickly, but I'm willing to build it up over time...by myself, if I have to. I die inside every time I come on the current server and seeing its role in the old S&M community's complete evisceration. I am willing to do quite a lot to reverse that. Because right now I feel like I wasted years trying to improve the battling community seeing as it does not have somewhere where it can effectively exist. On that note...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blubberchomp
I have been more concerned with utilizing the forum instead of a server as a way for establishing an active battle community
Okay, but it's not 2007 anymore: the battling community needs a place for battling and communal bonding. And as much as I loved 2007, PC got infinitely better when it was supplemented by a Shoddy server. So yeah, I'm all for utilizing the forum (as you know haha), but a server still has to exist.
__________________
Gone with the wind. (But still hanging around because why not?)

~wolf: defeated every lead except elf :>
d_a-bread house: what about metagross
~wolf: ok that too
Reply With Quote
  #139    
Old May 29th, 2013, 03:32 PM
Dark Azelf's Avatar
Dark Azelf
ThisWillBeTheEndOfEveryth ing.
Community Supporter
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Age: 23
Gender: Male
Nature: Impish
Just saying i post to agree with anti. Id be willing to help out also.

Also i dislike having to go to another channel/other server.

Maybe im missing something, but why cant the pre teens, tweens etc go to another channel instead of the people who actually battle (see: myself etc) ? The main channel should be for battling and regulars (with which of whom i still havent met one person who wants this rule implemented). If you wanna do some competitive color comparing or professional whining about how oblivious to the far worse content on the internet, like anti said "which is just a few clicks away" or "at your school heard every day in the playground" and how sensitive you are then go to that channel ? Explicit chat doesnt even happen much really lol.

As for the other server, like i said, none of our regulars like the rule. I am under the impression the people who whined to h staff werent even regulars and didnt/dont even battle (please by all means if you are a reg and disagree, post, because currently there is no evidence for this). Sorry, but why should they matter on a battling server ? You already have another server where you can be PG all you like, its called IRC. Use it. I just dont see why we have to pander and cater to some randoms and people who dont battle and come on all of two times anyway, we have the server to be laid back on and that is it.

I know the concern is about harming activity, but this rule is actually harming it and not the oh so explicit chat (which doesnt even happen often, color whining happens more lol). Old school people wont stick around. Infact a few have openly said they will leave if "this stupid rule is gonna stay".

My last point (not naming names) but someone who naively and obnoxiously said, "Does it matter if a few oldies leave if we get double the amount of new people to replace you?". Judging the way the battling community is at the present, i believe you NEED all the help you can get from vets to actually you know, integrate new people into the battling community. Without us (it may be a little selfish and un modest of me) but it will be like the blind leading the blind because no one battles competitively as it is bar certain vets. (Random battles dont count sorry).

Just my thoughts on the matter.


EDIT: Higher staff have always known about how we are so its silly to say this. PPN, BGT, Luke etc have all been and gone on our various servers and have NEVER cared and you know have actually done something for the community battling wise.
__________________
Pair x [23:25] =Sanguine: take meh with your mighty staff

Last edited by Dark Azelf; May 29th, 2013 at 03:43 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #140    
Old May 29th, 2013, 03:36 PM
Cordelia
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Nature: Sassy
Honestly, due to this new rule, I'll probably be on the server now. :) It is fun and I already played a random battle and won (surprisingly).
Reply With Quote
  #141    
Old May 29th, 2013, 03:41 PM
shenanigans's Avatar
shenanigans
hear me roar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Manchester
Gender: Male
Okay, I'm a... somewhat regular so I think I can chip in here with the points of view of both the server regulars and the higher staff in mind.

I totally get what you're unhappy about, honestly. Of course it sucks pretty big-time when you've built up a community with its own general way of doing things and culture and a load of people come in all "NO THIS IS TERRIBLE CHANGE EVERYTHING AT ONCE". I'll agree fully that it's a real slap in the face for everything you've gone by for the past however many months it may be and it's obvious to me that some toes have been stepped on here. It's a rule I almost wish wasn't in place since I like a dirty joke or whatever as much as the next person.

However, as much as you guys don't like the rule (and as much as I hate coming across as a total tight-arse and a killjoy), as the server becomes a more integral part of PC it follows that the server's rules will need to come more in line with those on PC. Higher staff have recently become more aware of the fact that the server is indeed moving into a closer relationship with PC - exemplified by things like integrated links into newer styles and forum-wide admin-set announcements regarding BC's community days. Undoubtedly, in upcoming Get-Togethers, the server is going to have its own events going on and I personally think it's awesome that the server is having this involvement with PC. For me, something that helps promote activity anywhere is no bad thing. However, with more people from around the forum and whatnot coming in, as I say, we have to be more in-line with PC rules. And that means that discussion of things which wouldn't fly on PC, doesn't fly on the server.

Now - if people are getting muted/kicked for things as simple as mentioning relationships or sex or whatever, then that's something I'm not okay with and I feel is way too tight. Like, that shouldn't be happening imo at all. If we can allow threads like this, as a recent example, on the public forums then we can allow it on the server so if someone could provide me of examples where kicks or mutes have gone on for that kind of (honestly, rather mild) thing then I can look more into that and see if it can be changed because I feel it's excessive. However, I've also seen some stuff on the server which wouldn't be okay; stuff like incest, rape, deviance, things like that. That'd not be alright on here and in my eyes it's not alright on the server.

It does sound like people may have gone a wee bit overboard with enforcing these new rules and hopefully in time that'll even out but otherwise, yeah, we need the rule if we're opening up so much to the entirety of PokéCommunity. As this place becomes more public, more members who are not part of the general server culture which has been established will be joining. And those members will see stuff like this almost certainly very differently to how you guys might be seeing it.

I guess I wanted to post all that just to say that, while I understand the frustration here, it's a rule which'll be needed as PC becomes more entwined with the server (the alternative, which I don't think would be a great idea, being that the server dissociates from PC to keep its less PC-esque atmosphere) and I feel it's something which can be worked with. But it needs fine-tuning to ensure that it isn't over-enforced.
__________________
#TMAFD
Reply With Quote
  #142    
Old May 29th, 2013, 03:49 PM
Zorua's Avatar
Zorua
Adventurous One.
Community Supporter
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Gender: Female
Nature: Gentle
Quote:
Now - if people are getting muted/kicked for things as simple as mentioning relationships or sex or whatever, then that's something I'm not okay with and I feel is way too tight. Like, that shouldn't be happening imo at all. If we can allow threads like this, as a recent example, on the public forums then we can allow it on the server so if someone could provide me of examples where kicks or mutes have gone on for that kind of (honestly, rather mild) thing then I can look more into that and see if it can be changed because I feel it's excessive. However, I've also seen some stuff on the server which wouldn't be okay; stuff like incest, rape, deviance, things like that. That'd not be alright on here and in my eyes it's not alright on the server.
Now, I'm probably going to get run over from this, but I feel that, until now, it has been the fault of h-staff for not properly communicating what you guys find okay and what you guys don't. From what I've been told and from my interpretation of the rule, it seems to imply that anything sex-related is banned from the server, and as such, whenever something sexual DOES get mentioned, we would have to warn repeatedly and follow our standard procedure of muting/banning the person if it does get carried on too far, which is something (I believe) we really don't want to do, especially to our server regulars who, along with our newer members, made the chat what it is currently today.

As I mentioned in my previous post, it's a confusion of "what is okay" and "what isn't okay". But now that you've cleared this up, I understand now, unlike before when it was just a huge mess and we had to just slam everything that was sexual. .___.; But then again...what kind of sexual discussions ARE you guys okay with? That's what I'm confused about, I guess. If there was sexual jokes made on the server, would you mind about that, or does it depend on the joke? I guess there's a lot of things that go into this rule that I want clarified before I can really act upon anything because I want to make sure that I (along with other staff) are enforcing things properly.
Reply With Quote
  #143    
Old May 29th, 2013, 03:49 PM
Dark Azelf's Avatar
Dark Azelf
ThisWillBeTheEndOfEveryth ing.
Community Supporter
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Age: 23
Gender: Male
Nature: Impish
Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor Leaf View Post

Now - if people are getting muted/kicked for things as simple as mentioning relationships or sex or whatever, then that's something I'm not okay with and I feel is way too tight.
This is one of the biggest problems actually, thankyou for bringing it up. I got muted simply because i mentioned a sex toy in a joking matter yesterday with the reason "Sorry i have to now". :/
__________________
Pair x [23:25] =Sanguine: take meh with your mighty staff
Reply With Quote
  #144    
Old May 29th, 2013, 07:12 PM
Anti's Avatar
Anti
I forgive you, Chris Bosh.
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Ohio
Age: 15
Gender: Male
Nature: Serious
Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor Leaf View Post
post
I'm not actually going to take issue with anything you said but rather take issue with a phenomenon you refer to in the post.

And that is basically the integration into PC. In principle, I agree that anything that increases activity is okay. But all of the people who have been brought in don't battle; they joined our community and then didn't participate in the activity that defines it. Naturally, this has diluted the server to the point that it should definitely be associated with PC but should definitely not be associated with Strategies and Movesets. I think most people just think that the PG13 rule is overbearing, but I find it troubling as a microcosm of the end of our battling community. I am absolutely appalled that my forum and community has been tossed aside as if it simply doesn't matter because, hey, it's active now so to hell with the battlers let's just chug ahead! ...Even though all that activity consists of is whining about username colors. At least for me. I know that appeals to some people but that is NOT what S&M is about. This situation is not workable for a functional battling community and something needs to be done about it.

The rule itself is frankly of little concern to me and frankly the "mature content" usually makes the chat worse. I didn't even know that was possible but it is.

Quote:
And those members will see stuff like this almost certainly very differently to how you guys might be seeing it.
This is probably indicative of the "there are two different communities and them coexisting isn't good for either of them" thing. Even though one is on the verge of collapsing, but whatever.
__________________
Gone with the wind. (But still hanging around because why not?)

~wolf: defeated every lead except elf :>
d_a-bread house: what about metagross
~wolf: ok that too
Reply With Quote
  #145    
Old May 29th, 2013, 07:22 PM
Zorua's Avatar
Zorua
Adventurous One.
Community Supporter
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Gender: Female
Nature: Gentle
I'd also like to point out that while people are bringing up the whole "the topic consists of people whining abut username colors", that (at least in my presence), the topic is actually not that common, at least not as often as people think it is. Does it happen to a point where it's noticeable? Perhaps. However, is it a groundbreaking situation that needs to be dealt with? Not really (at least, not in my perspective).

And usually when it is, it's a topic that goes away fairly easily. I don't see what the problem is bringing up a separate topic to talk about. I just kind of have a problem with this implication that our community is now basically this mix of immature, whiny, color-obsessed children that de-face what S&M "used to be", etc.

Now, I apologize if I'm reading into things too much, or if I'm misinterpreting, but realize that our regulars go to the server for more chatting than battling. That's not to say that they don't battle, they do, it's just significantly less often. Heck, I rarely battle myself. Yes, I take responsibility in that, and that I've not really a huge battler like I used to be. I hope to someday make a team eventually, but I just haven't really got around to that yet.

Regardless, our community is what it is, and I don't see what can be done to really change that unless we get our regulars into battling again. It seems that, in every Commday that I've participated in, our regulars do seem genuinely interested in battles. What makes battles take so long isn't so much the disinterest: It's the inactivity. People aren't active, don't come on in time to complete their matches, and that creates boredom and disinterest.
Reply With Quote
  #146    
Old May 29th, 2013, 08:40 PM
Anti's Avatar
Anti
I forgive you, Chris Bosh.
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Ohio
Age: 15
Gender: Male
Nature: Serious
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twilight Sky View Post
I'd also like to point out that while people are bringing up the whole "the topic consists of people whining abut username colors", that (at least in my presence), the topic is actually not that common, at least not as often as people think it is. Does it happen to a point where it's noticeable? Perhaps. However, is it a groundbreaking situation that needs to be dealt with? Not really (at least, not in my perspective).
In my experience the topic has come up daily. I am not very active on the server either. In any event, it's not a groundbreaking situation, yes, but it definitely is a microcosm of...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Twilight Sky View Post
And usually when it is, it's a topic that goes away fairly easily. I don't see what the problem is bringing up a separate topic to talk about. I just kind of have a problem with this implication that our community is now basically this mix of immature, whiny, color-obsessed children that de-face what S&M "used to be", etc.
...that last sentence. Except I don't have a problem with it at all--I am the person who most often brings it up with the very implication you are taking issue with. The server is a community but it's definitely not a community of S&M. The colors thing is merely a rhetorical tool to illustrate this, and I don't feel guilty at all about using it. It's ridiculous to me that so many trivial things are discussed so frequently--it's no wonder people talk about sex all the time--and there is no substantive appeal to the server whose existence derives from substance. Anyway, like I said, it's not bad itself, it's just a "hey this sort of sums up my point nicely" sort of thing (aka a microcosm of drifting away from the battling community blah blah blah).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Twilight Sky View Post
Now, I apologize if I'm reading into things too much, or if I'm misinterpreting, but realize that our regulars go to the server for more chatting than battling.
Seeing as it's a server supposedly based in BATTLE Center (or at least the server that supposedly fills its needs) I don't think it's unreasonable at all to find this profoundly troubling. And nah your interpretation was pretty much right on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Twilight Sky View Post
That's not to say that they don't battle, they do, it's just significantly less often.
Which is to say "so infrequently that saying they battle is basically a farce." And again, RandBats don't count, seeing as it's nothing more than a whimsical exercise in randomness. I suspect that at this point my dismissive tone is starting to become bothersome, but I'd really just prefer if we all at least owned up to the reality instead of pretending like the battling community is ever going to recover if the server remains the way it is now. Because right now Smogon has more PC battlers than PC does. Hopefully you can at least understand the source of my extreme frustration even if you cannot entirely empathize with it.

I get that it's annoying hearing "your way of enjoying PC is wrong" because that's currently happening with the sex thing on a smaller/more trivial scale but it's not so much that your way is wrong...it's more that your way doesn't represent S&M and its manifestation (the server) should by extension probably not be where the battling community goes. In other words, it's not right/wrong, it's that the battlers' server has been semi-hijacked and now they're screwed and the organization of the forum and its relation to the server is all a big mess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Twilight Sky View Post
Heck, I rarely battle myself. Yes, I take responsibility in that, and that I've not really a huge battler like I used to be. I hope to someday make a team eventually, but I just haven't really got around to that yet.
I just hope you don't run off to Smogon when you realize no one is really left who you could use your team against.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Twilight Sky View Post
Regardless, our community is what it is, and I don't see what can be done to really change that unless we get our regulars into battling again. It seems that, in every Commday that I've participated in, our regulars do seem genuinely interested in battles. What makes battles take so long isn't so much the disinterest: It's the inactivity. People aren't active, don't come on in time to complete their matches, and that creates boredom and disinterest.
We shouldn't have to have an event to make people care about battling in the competitive battling section of PC. The people you speak of are interested in battling the way I am interested in football. I watch a game or two and generally know who is good and whatnot, but I would be absolutely out of place on, say, a football discussion forum since I'm not really into it enough and lack the knowledge...and the willpower to gain it. There's a big difference. It's not that there's anything wrong with that, but again, we shouldn't be pretending that these sorts of people are going to eventually make us active...because then we're perpetuating the same lie that we have been for years.

anyway just to repeat my push: S&M has its own separate server where people can go if they actually want to battle, and if they don't they can stay with the community you speak of which is unquestionably growing and thriving. Then everyone wins.

(I realize I'm attempting to hijack the PG13 discussion. But the demise of this forum's community is a maaaajor problem at this point and imo it starts with the evolution of the server soooo)
__________________
Gone with the wind. (But still hanging around because why not?)

~wolf: defeated every lead except elf :>
d_a-bread house: what about metagross
~wolf: ok that too
Reply With Quote
  #147    
Old May 30th, 2013, 07:01 AM
Fire Flyy's Avatar
Fire Flyy
metaphysical poet
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: below the heavens
Age: 18
Gender: Male
Nature: Sassy
i'm sorry but this whole discussion is pretty hilarious, i'm aware that pc's generally a safer place on the internet for a 11-14 y/o kid than most forums and i agree the innuendo is kind of stupid when it displaces battling entirely, but the fact that people are trying to censor that as if one of the new users [apparently a lot of them participate anyways] don't know what sex is or are getting emotionally scarred by the discussion. still it's a shame that a forum rebellion has incited from this whole incident and that people are legitimately furious like john c. calhoun circa 1849.

Quote:
And usually when it is, it's a topic that goes away fairly easily. I don't see what the problem is bringing up a separate topic to talk about. I just kind of have a problem with this implication that our community is now basically this mix of immature, whiny, color-obsessed children that de-face what S&M "used to be", etc.
So yeah this basically sums up my thoughts about what's going on, it seems like there's some sort of pride in not conforming to the smogon metagames like ou and playing like pu lc triple randbats valentines style now, i mean i dont think anyone ladders at all, most battling communities developed from a community of people actually battling and actively trying to get better on the ladders, pc's is really now just a remnant of what used to be with a bunch of kids sitting on the server, i realize this is extremely pessimistic and critical but it's basically the truth. there's a point where you have to decide if youre all actually a battling community or just a glorified social irc using a pokemon sim to chat on

o well :/
__________________

Last edited by Fire Flyy; June 1st, 2013 at 09:48 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #148    
Old May 30th, 2013, 07:39 AM
Troye's Avatar
Troye
► My Happy Little Pill 
Community Supporter
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: New York
Gender: Male
Nature: Lax
I'm pretty much ignoring the whole appropriateness discussion now because what's been said from multiple people regarding it becoming more relaxed has already been stated =P

As much as this whole situation sucks, creating another server for us that actually want to discuss battling/actually battle seems like the best solution right now. Trying to force the entire server to change/force them out because they don't want to battle isn't the smartest thing. The server itself is more active that it has ever been, so trying to force a change that the majority of people there don't want isn't going to end well. Yes, it's a shame honestly, but it's the best course of action. If we can't do it, and we're stuck just creating another lobby on the server, I'd at least support giving Anti some sort of authority on the server. If he's going to be the one facilitating this, he can't really do that well from a position of non-auth.

As far as people being concerned about it's activity, it's the same thing as when the Shoddy server got started: bringing it from the ground up. Obviously it wouldn't have PC as a platform to advertise it, but that doesn't mean we can't draw people who actually want to learn and discuss battling over to try and help them. I mean we have myself, Elf, Anti, Aero, Pokedra, Nica, and maybe a few others (didn't include you Karp because you're pretty much never on =P). That's at least a decent basis for it. Plus out of everyone we're pretty likely to be the most helpful when it comes to actually helping new members out.

Which leads me to my next point that's been brought up: the environment and attitude of what the new server would be. There's been concern over this new server becoming what S&M's environment was back in 2007/2008: a flamefest and a craphole. I'm pretty sure I can speak for everyone that would want to be involved with this would never want to let this happen. That environment doesn't foster a good community (while it may have been active then, it was extremely low quality), especially for what we're going for. None of us degrade people for trying to learn and not being the best at battling either. If anyone, if someone is actually interested and one of us is around, all we want to do is facilitate it because we want people to battle. Pretty much I see the environment of this being laid back like the late Shoddy/PO days were, not some 2007 craphole.

I guess I don't see why people are against it. The main server stays, a new one that isn't directly affiliated with PC is created for those who want to battle, which has a relaxed environment. It's pretty much a win-win for everyone, as no one is having change shoved down their throat for something that they don't have any interest it.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #149    
Old May 30th, 2013, 09:58 AM
wolf's Avatar
wolf
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Just do it. I am not stopping it.
__________________
pc battle server / skype: awolffromspace / avatar source
Reply With Quote
  #150    
Old May 30th, 2013, 10:03 AM
Anti's Avatar
Anti
I forgive you, Chris Bosh.
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Ohio
Age: 15
Gender: Male
Nature: Serious
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake♫ View Post
long post im proud of you son
I don't know if you're disagreeing with my proposal or misunderstanding it in this way: I definitely want it to be affiliated with PC. Just like the old one was. It should be linked to in the S&M main forum so that new users and randoms at least know where our battlers are, while the current server can be linked to...somewhere else. Or alternatively link to both with the current one being "PC Chatroom" or something and the new one being "PC Battle Server." We need PC so that the server can grow since yeah, I do anticipate that it would be a little bit starved for activity at first. Not something we can't handle (also my impression is that our battling regs are actually motivated unlike uhhh the last half of my here here before leaving lol) but we can't just expect people to find such a server if it were basically "underground" which is weird for me to think of.

(I also hate the idea that the battling community has become so marginal that it would resort to lack of affiliation just to have a place to gather...I mean that's kinda sad when you think about it.)

And just for clarification (since this did "come out of" the pg13 thing even if I mostly used it as a pretense to whine about the current state of the server lol) we would indeed be more laid back about all that though I do want to mirror what Wolf said on the server which was basically that Mature Room is the Immature Room. If we're going to have a server that is more substance-driven, some of the more out there stuff I would expect to be supplanted by, well, substance, as sex tends to drive down the quality of the chat. I think I'm still scarred from my last year on PO.

It won't be a flamefest. That hasn't really been a problem in a few years now and it's time to move on. I wouldn't mind seeing some of the rougher S&M culture returning though as long as the foundation of respect is there...it was honestly more fun that way and people who can't deal with some light jabs at one another probably aren't cut out for competitive battling anyway.

...If we even get a server.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire Flyy View Post
So yeah this basically sums up my thoughts about what's going on, it seems like there's some sort of pride in not conforming to the smogon metagames like ou and playing like pu lc triple randbats valentines style now, i mean i dont think anyone ladders at all, most battling communities developed from a community of people actually battling and actively trying to get better on the ladders, pc's is really now just a remnant of what used to be with a bunch of kids sitting on the server, i realize this is extremely pessimistic and critical but it's basically the truth. there's a point where you have to decide if youre all actually a battling community or just a glorified social irc using a pokemon sim to chat on
I suspect that we would play Smogon metagames on a new server since everyone likes UU and a different metagame is impractical due to a small playerbase and no laddering potential. (I know you weren't addressing what I'm speaking to but I'm just using what you said to bring that up.) Also just going to say that your last sentence is pretty much right on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf
Just do it. I am not stopping it.
Definitely read my bit about the affiliation above. Curious where you stand on that (in favor of/opposed/"wait and see"/other)

Also it would be magnificent if we got a stable host for the server as the current one has now...
__________________
Gone with the wind. (But still hanging around because why not?)

~wolf: defeated every lead except elf :>
d_a-bread house: what about metagross
~wolf: ok that too
Reply With Quote
Reply
Quick Reply

Sponsored Links
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Minimum Characters Per Post: 25



All times are UTC -8. The time now is 11:12 AM.


Style by Nymphadora, artwork by Sa-Dui.
Like our Facebook Page Follow us on Twitter © 2002 - 2014 The PokéCommunity™, pokecommunity.com.
Pokémon characters and images belong to The Pokémon Company International and Nintendo. This website is in no way affiliated with or endorsed by Nintendo, Creatures, GAMEFREAK, The Pokémon Company or The Pokémon Company International. We just love Pokémon.
All forum styles, their images (unless noted otherwise) and site designs are © 2002 - 2014 The PokéCommunity / PokéCommunity.com.
PokéCommunity™ is a trademark of The PokéCommunity. All rights reserved. Sponsor advertisements do not imply our endorsement of that product or service. User generated content remains the property of its creator.