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  #1    
Old June 16th, 2013, 05:46 AM
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It's said that pokémon are deep down good creatures, no matter how violent they may seem at a first glance. But the Japanese name for the Dark type is the "Evil" type, and some pokémon do seem to be really mean. Example is the group of Zangoose that chases Chimchar in the anime, or the pokémon that agree to fight for Team Rocket and do horrible things to others.

Do you think any pokémon are inherently evil? Feel free to expand on how you interpret the word evil in this context.
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  #2    
Old June 16th, 2013, 06:08 AM
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Animals in the real world aren't evil. Violence or pack behaviour is just a part of nature. But Pokemon are a lot more intelligent than animals, take Darkra and Gengar for example. They most certainly have sinister intentions (Darkrai was the villiain of a Pokemon movie even) Does that make them evil? No, I think there are hardwired predators, who were just made to do that, steal souls or whatever. Most Pokemon are not truly evil. A few might be twisted by humans to become evil, either emotionally or artificially i.e Shadow Pokemon, and some ghost types do some pretty wicked stuff, but overall Pokemon aren't evil like us. Not to say they all live like happy, frolicking bunneary's but generally only Pokemon intelligent and naturally dangerous enough might become evil if humans taught them to be.
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Old June 16th, 2013, 06:36 PM
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There is no such thing as inherently evil, in the Pokémon world or otherwise. The reasons to why they commit acts that are labeled as "evil" differs with each of them. Basically, they are "evil" because of something, may it be a past experience or they were taught to be evil by someone else.
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Old June 16th, 2013, 06:46 PM
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No pokemon are truly evil experience in the past may have changed them evil, The other pokemon that are trainers pokemon, Pokemon after they stay with that trainer it begins to act like it's trainer so like team rocket's pokemon are evil because they are if they were good than they would be good.
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Old June 16th, 2013, 07:38 PM
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While Pokemon can be used to do bad things to people and other Pokemon, I don't think any of them are inherently evil. Many times I'm sure a Pokemon was no different from any others, but once it got into the hands of the wrong trainers, it started doing evil things, even if it wasn't what the Pokemon truly believed in. Either that, or it may have been mistreated by others in the past, causing it to turn its back to the world and become angry (but not necessarily evil).

I also think that just like humans and other animals, Pokemon have varying personalities, too, and some turn out to be more of a jerk than others. It might get itself into mischief by doing stupid things, but I don't think that makes them evil, either. So while some Pokemon may act evil at times, I don't really think that they are evil.
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  #6    
Old June 16th, 2013, 07:51 PM
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I believe that no one Pokemon is born evil; they must acquire the undesirable trait of being evil from a past trainer or past experience that shook them into the wrong side of reality. I believe that Pokemon are like pets (lets say dogs) for example because they are a reflection of you their trainer, their master, and protector. Sure, some Dark or Ghost type Pokemon may give off the assumption of being sinister because of some questionable actions they do whether in the anime, manga, or in-game. But this does not make thm evil at all. Their "sinister" actions are in their nature. Even the Pokemon that Team Rocket (or any evil gang in Pokemon) are not entirely evil. They are simply following their master - who they think is amazing and a role model, no matter what - and going through with what they want. So, no, Pokemon are not evil - they have to be made evil either by a tragic experience or a bad trainer. They are simply a reflection of you.
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Old June 16th, 2013, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by O07_eleven View Post
Animals in the real world aren't evil. Violence or pack behaviour is just a part of nature. But Pokemon are a lot more intelligent than animals, take Darkra and Gengar for example. They most certainly have sinister intentions (Darkrai was the villiain of a Pokemon movie even) Does that make them evil? No, I think there are hardwired predators, who were just made to do that, steal souls or whatever. Most Pokemon are not truly evil. A few might be twisted by humans to become evil, either emotionally or artificially i.e Shadow Pokemon, and some ghost types do some pretty wicked stuff, but overall Pokemon aren't evil like us. Not to say they all live like happy, frolicking bunneary's but generally only Pokemon intelligent and naturally dangerous enough might become evil if humans taught them to be.
did you even watch that whole movie? what darkrai did was to defend the people from dialga and palkia. and i dont even know what youre talking about with gengar. anyways i dont believe they are naturally evil or even changed to be so. i think that they just follow what their trainers command whether it be a little kid or a gang of bad guys.
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  #8    
Old June 16th, 2013, 08:15 PM
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wasn't meowth in the tv series kind of evil? like he knew what he was doing, and if memory serves they did not like him but he still stuck around to do bad stuff? Or am I getting different stories confuised? lol I might be, but, I still think meowth was sort of bad.
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  #9    
Old June 16th, 2013, 11:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mudkipbubbles View Post
I believe that no one Pokemon is born evil; they must acquire the undesirable trait of being evil from a past trainer or past experience that shook them into the wrong side of reality. I believe that Pokemon are like pets (lets say dogs) for example because they are a reflection of you their trainer, their master, and protector. Sure, some Dark or Ghost type Pokemon may give off the assumption of being sinister because of some questionable actions they do whether in the anime, manga, or in-game. But this does not make thm evil at all. Their "sinister" actions are in their nature. Even the Pokemon that Team Rocket (or any evil gang in Pokemon) are not entirely evil. They are simply following their master - who they think is amazing and a role model, no matter what - and going through with what they want. So, no, Pokemon are not evil - they have to be made evil either by a tragic experience or a bad trainer. They are simply a reflection of you.
You summed up what I would like to say pretty well ^^
Also, wild pokémon could seem evil, I think, because they are violent. Maybe they defend their territory very eagerly, or maybe they are predators who are naturally hostile towards their prey. Or maybe something in their wild life has happened to make them grumpy or downright malicious.

Seems most people in this thread agree on that evil is something that lies deep down and is definite, and that pokémon don't have that trait. I agree!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pokeyellow1 View Post
wasn't meowth in the tv series kind of evil? like he knew what he was doing, and if memory serves they did not like him but he still stuck around to do bad stuff? Or am I getting different stories confuised? lol I might be, but, I still think meowth was sort of bad.
Haha, okay he might be an exception. Even when he had traveled with Ash for a while and become their friend and helped them and such, he chose to follow up the Rocket plan and turn back to "the dark side". But really, he mostly wants to earn money and become Giovanni's favorite pet. So he does everything he can to get there. He believes that goal of his is more important than gaining a few twerp friends (Ash, Pikachu etc.) and that's why he keeps being their enemy. I'm not sure that makes him evil, just... Persistent ^^
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  #10    
Old June 17th, 2013, 04:54 AM
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If Pokémon are not inherently evil, then that would mean that we could theoretically put them in any role in a given game. Even those that look obviously evil by our standards. That is the magic of Pokémon.
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  #11    
Old June 17th, 2013, 05:08 AM
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You summed up what I would like to say pretty well
Also, wild pokémon could seem evil, I think, because they are violent. Maybe they defend their territory very eagerly, or maybe they are predators who are naturally hostile towards their prey. Or maybe something in their wild life has happened to make them grumpy or downright malicious.

Seems most people in this thread agree on that evil is something that lies deep down and is definite, and that pokémon don't have that trait. I agree!
Yes, I see must people on this thread agree that evil is something they must gather or gain, not a trait passed down from generation to generation. I don't think Wild Pokemon are evil, either. They're probably just tryin to protect their territory from intruders and themselves from being caught (though i dont know why they wouldnt want to be caught - unless, of course, the trainer who caught you is rough on you).
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  #12    
Old June 17th, 2013, 05:45 AM
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Originally Posted by mudkipbubbles View Post
Yes, I see must people on this thread agree that evil is something they must gather or gain, not a trait passed down from generation to generation. I don't think Wild Pokemon are evil, either. They're probably just tryin to protect their territory from intruders and themselves from being caught (though i dont know why they wouldnt want to be caught - unless, of course, the trainer who caught you is rough on you).
Hmm...

You know, looking things from different perspectives... it always look like you're never exactly right or wrong. The world is a grey, grey area.

Makes me wonder whether a Pokémon turned "evil" can be redeemed.
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  #13    
Old June 17th, 2013, 06:16 AM
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Hmm...

You know, looking things from different perspectives... it always look like you're never exactly right or wrong. The world is a grey, grey area.

Makes me wonder whether a Pokémon turned "evil" can be redeemed.
You may be right I'm simply stating my opinion on how I think the Pokemon world works. No one assumption is ultimately correct. But I love seeing other people's POV of the Pokemon world
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Old June 17th, 2013, 06:42 AM
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I sure hope so. The implications of truly evil Pokemon are....very interesting indeed.
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Old June 17th, 2013, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red's Hawt Chibi Pelippers View Post
It's said that pokémon are deep down good creatures, no matter how violent they may seem at a first glance. But the Japanese name for the Dark type is the "Evil" type, and some pokémon do seem to be really mean. Example is the group of Zangoose that chases Chimchar in the anime, or the pokémon that agree to fight for Team Rocket and do horrible things to others.

Do you think any pokémon are inherently evil? Feel free to expand on how you interpret the word evil in this context.
That Pelipper's being doing evil stuff to get its wing-tips that colour...xD

Giratina strikes me as one that could be. After all "It was banished for its violence. It silently gazed upon the old world from the Distortion World." - Pokédex. Lots of pokémon are violent, but it's the only one that some combination of Arceus, Dialga, Palkia and the Lake Trio sought to banish because of it, suggesting it takes it over the top - which could certainly be interpreted as an evil characteristic akin to the Joker in The Dark Knight.

Other than that, I haven't really seen anything to suggest any other pokémon is inherently evil. But those that have been abused by the likes of Team Rocket could become evil.
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Old June 17th, 2013, 08:10 AM
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Was Giratina really evil in the anime movie, in the end?

Also, Genesect strikes me as a pretty evil pokémon. But then again, it's a predator and in the upcoming movie they are violent because they believe their world as it once was has been taken from them.
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Old June 17th, 2013, 09:42 AM
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In the anime movie? I think it was just aggravated. But I was going on what the games say. The anime's just so different...for example one person (Ash) seems to connect emotionally with every legendary there is :P

Genesect is Predator xD. This guy might suggest it's evil :P



...and if you don't get that, you're missing out on a quality show
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Old June 17th, 2013, 10:32 AM
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Given that Pokemon are rather similar to (and oft based on) folkloric diminutives like fairies, it seems that presuming an inherent moral temperament upon them per species is reasonable. They might not comprehend morality, but if what they do is considered evil by human perspectives, they are, as far as humans are concerned, evil. Morality is an invented concept with a purpose to dictate appropriate behaviour within a society, and what isn't appropriate is what we call evil.
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Old June 17th, 2013, 01:06 PM
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I don't think any Pokemon are inherently evil, but if there can be evil people there can probably be evil Pokemon. There are plenty of Pokemon who ought to be smart enough to know what right and wrong are (as concepts anyway), like Alakazam or Metagross. Perhaps their brains don't work like people's brains, but I don't think they can be so alien and different from people that they could be intelligent and still not understand the concept of evil. At least with the more intelligent ones.
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Old June 17th, 2013, 02:16 PM
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I love how everybody instantly agrees with each other, but I disagree:

Almost every pokemon is inherently evil,violent, and spiteful little creatures (with a few inconsistencies here and there). It takes a good owner (not necessarily a trainer) or caring wild parent to change their malevolent ways.

I also believe that some pokemon do not have consciences, and care simply to live rather than care about what is morally correct.
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Old June 17th, 2013, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TweenyTodd View Post
I love how everybody instantly agrees with each other, but I disagree:

Almost every pokemon is inherently evil,violent, and spiteful little creatures (with a few inconsistencies here and there). It takes a good owner (not necessarily a trainer) or caring wild parent to change their malevolent ways.

I also believe that some pokemon do not have consciences, and care simply to live rather than care about what is morally correct.
That would be twisting "evil"

e·vil
/ˈēvəl/
Adjective
Profoundly immoral and malevolent.
Noun
Profound immorality, wickedness, and depravity, esp. when regarded as a supernatural force.

Pokemon don't do things just to spite. They are based on animals and while most are above animal intellect they still fall under the pretense of animal behavior. Everything they do is to generally survive. Nothing is ever intended purely to harm (with exception of Bannett who is a living embodiment of grudge).

A rattata ruining your home and eating your food would be the same as a mouse living in your house. They do it to simply survive as the animals aren't capable of understanding Morals which is purely a human concept. Evil doesn't exist to animals, and by relation neither does it exist to Pokemon.

Instict to survive (while wild) may cause them to do some fairly bad acts such as brutally attacking or maiming, but that is how they have had to live. Its purely survival.

The creators have said that there are no purely inherently evil Pokemon. Even Banette in the anime would be somewhat docile. The trickster ghost types mainly prank because they find it amusing to a certain level. While some of their dex and info fillers can be morbid, none of them are designed to be in any way shape or form, "evil"
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Old June 17th, 2013, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TweenyTodd View Post
I love how everybody instantly agrees with each other, but I disagree:

Almost every pokemon is inherently evil,violent, and spiteful little creatures (with a few inconsistencies here and there). It takes a good owner (not necessarily a trainer) or caring wild parent to change their malevolent ways.

I also believe that some pokemon do not have consciences, and care simply to live rather than care about what is morally correct.
So basically, you're also implying that animals (which we all know is the basis of Pokémon behaviour in the wild) are also inherently evil, violent and spiteful creatures? Would you care to elaborate on that? Because as far as I know, animal behaviour, and to an extent Pokémon behaviour as well, is based on their instinct; and as implied by your post, you are saying that an animal's instinct (which encompasses conscience) is evil?
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Old June 18th, 2013, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by XanderO View Post
Pokemon don't do things just to spite. They are based on animals and while most are above animal intellect they still fall under the pretense of animal behavior. Everything they do is to generally survive. Nothing is ever intended purely to harm.

A rattata ruining your home and eating your food would be the same as a mouse living in your house.
Are you a rattata? How are you so sure that said rattata is not coming in, ruining your home, and eating your food completely on purpose? Like you said yourself, they are based on animals yet have far more intellect.

Quote:
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So basically, you're also implying that animals (which we all know is the basis of Pokémon behaviour in the wild) are also inherently evil, violent and spiteful creatures? Would you care to elaborate on that? Because as far as I know, animal behaviour, and to an extent Pokémon behaviour as well, is based on their instinct; and as implied by your post, you are saying that an animal's instinct (which encompasses conscience) is evil?
First off, not all pokemon are based on animals.
Second off, yes. It can be reasonably inferred that animals are evil as well.
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Old June 18th, 2013, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by TweenyTodd View Post
Are you a rattata? How are you so sure that said rattata is not coming in, ruining your home, and eating your food completely on purpose? Like you said yourself, they are based on animals yet have far more intellect.

First off, not all pokemon are based on animals.
Second off, yes. It can be reasonably inferred that animals are evil as well.
This all depends on how you define "evil". If it is as Cassino says, a moral compass for humans, then pokémon as well as animals can be viewed from our perspective and we may say that they are evil when they try to eat us or when a bird steals our precious shiny things.

But I think most here try to say that evil is something that sits in the core of a being and makes it want to do malicious stuff for no particular background reason. Such as an antagonist in a story for children. An evil witch that dies at the end, or a bully that get what he deserves with no explanation for his behavior being given within the frames of the story. I think it's safe to assume that no such evil probably exists in humans nor animals, really. It's something we have made up for use in stories. There is always a reason for someone to behave in an evil way.

Thus, the best way to think of it is probably as a balance with our human moral as a reference. If you do something that is seen as immoral to us, you are evil. Such as a rattata ruining your home when we can't see the reason behind it (following the trail of thought above, there is probably a reason that caused the rattata to act) - then we call it evil.

I don't even know if this is consistent with my previous reply lol but it sounded really smart when I wrote it now.
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Old June 18th, 2013, 04:37 PM
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First off, not all pokemon are based on animals.
Second off, yes. It can be reasonably inferred that animals are evil as well.
I was pertaining to their behaviour in the wild. They act using what their instincts tell them to do. If you so think that a wild Pokémon's instinct is "evil" then you're using the wrong context. While, yes, not all Pokémon are based on animals but their behaviour in the wild (predator and prey is very obvious in the poke-wild) are more or less based from animals, except for those Pokémon who surpasses their animalistic instinct and has gained their own form of consciousness, like most legendary Pokémon.

You must be joking, aren't you? That second sentence made me chuckle, truth be told. No offense.
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