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  #226    
Old June 17th, 2013 (07:02 AM).
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I wonder if maybe Bellossom will become Grass/Fairy I can see it.
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Old June 17th, 2013 (07:32 AM).
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So what if Fairy was weak against Normal? Or Psychic? You know how in some lore, fairies get their power from people believing in them or whatever. They are dependent on normal people, or the human mind, whichever way works. It would be kind of cool to see Normal type have one SE, since Fighting kills it and it can't touch Ghost. I doubt this would happen, but it's an interesting theory.
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Old June 17th, 2013 (08:26 AM).
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I would prefer weak to normal than any other type except poison. Both poison and normal need something to be effective against.
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Old June 17th, 2013 (10:21 AM).
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Quote originally posted by Sindrie:
I wonder if maybe Bellossom will become Grass/Fairy I can see it.
That would be really great, I never chose Bellossom over Vileplume since Bellossom is pure Grass & Vileplume is Grass/Poison, so being part Fairy will make it very interesting!
Still they should make non-cute Fairies this gen, because all fairies so far are cute & cuddly & such so I wish they could make a Pokemonized Troll that is part Fairy part Poison, the already took a huge step by making a new type then why not take a step like this?
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Old June 17th, 2013 (10:27 AM).
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Quote originally posted by AnonygooseD:
That would be really great, I never chose Bellossom over Vileplume since Bellossom is pure Grass & Vileplume is Grass/Poison, so being part Fairy will make it very interesting!
Still they should make non-cute Fairies this gen, because all fairies so far are cute & cuddly & such so I wish they could make a Pokemonized Troll that is part Fairy part Poison, the already took a huge step by making a new type then why not take a step like this?
Yeah Bellossom and Vileplume are my favorite pokemon. While I think Bellossom is reasonable now as is I think if I were to make any grass type part fairy it would be Bellossom, and plus seeing little tiny Bellossom beating down dragonite would be gold.
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Old June 17th, 2013 (12:14 PM).
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Would they make Bellossom Fairy typed as well? We already have the branched evolution Fairy type in Gardevoir now. It seems a little redundant to take a remaining single-typed Pokemon that's part of a branching family and slap a Fairy typing on them as well.

I kind of feel like there won't be any new Fairy types from generations I-III since we got one from each already. Just a feeling though. It all depends on how rare they want the Fairy type to be.
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Old June 17th, 2013 (01:27 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Scarf:
Would they make Bellossom Fairy typed as well? We already have the branched evolution Fairy type in Gardevoir now. It seems a little redundant to take a remaining single-typed Pokemon that's part of a branching family and slap a Fairy typing on them as well.

I kind of feel like there won't be any new Fairy types from generations I-III since we got one from each already. Just a feeling though. It all depends on how rare they want the Fairy type to be.
Like they Kinda did in the first place? I mean they took an existing family (oddish) of poison/grass and gave it a 4th evolution that took away one of it's typing..... (and made it smaller then it's first evolution) so I doubt that is a reason for them not to mess with them. I also Find it hard to believe thats all they will retcon to fairy. If that is all they retcon then they should remove all the non fairies from the fairy egg group.
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Old June 17th, 2013 (01:35 PM).
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Anything is possible, they already made big steps slapping Fairy to Marill (why the heck I dunno) so why not Bellossom?
Also I have a TINY feeling GF is spying over this forum & taking ideas & opinions from it, & maybe from DA too, so who knows
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Old June 17th, 2013 (04:49 PM).
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Quote:
Anything is possible, they already made big steps slapping Fairy to Marill (why the heck I dunno) so why not Bellossom?
Also I have a TINY feeling GF is spying over this forum & taking ideas & opinions from it, & maybe from DA too, so who knows
Considering that the development team is primarily Japanese, and the legal ramifications of using fan ideas, and the fact that they (and for that matter nigh near every other game company) have not done this practise... I think that feeling is more a hope than anything. Game Freak aren't looking at forums and implementing the ideas people throw up.
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Possibly not grim enough if you look at certain fairies.

Not all fairies are like disney fairies you know, there are evil and sadistic ones too.
Indeed, there's a lot of mythology that could be incorporated into the typing if you look. Plus there's some rather interesting grim aspects with some Pokemon already if you dig around.
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Old June 17th, 2013 (05:15 PM).
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Its my first time doing calculations and I did this in the battle chat concerning Fairy and SE against Dark. I used what I assumed to be a look alike attack for Fairy Wind to try and cal damage x4 SE should have done if Fairy were SE to Dark and Dragon.

Spoiler:
Quote originally posted by XanderO:
I have a Non-SP. Def EV trained Hydreigon that doesn't have a deliberating ability and he ALWAYS gets OHKO'd by Focus Blast when it hits unless the Pokemon using it has a base power less than 90...I know my friends Gardevoir can one shot my Hydreigon with it. I know I got one shot by an Electivire as well it as a base of 95 and favors physical attacks over special attacks. A Toxicroak came close before as well.

According to Psypoke's calculator a Croagunk could indeed nearly KO with base info only depending on if my nature and EV's effected my HP, which they didn't. The curve was 248 as the lowest and 294 as the highest. Hydreigon has between 294 and 388. I don't believe mine has many as it was SP. ATK and Speed trained with remainder going into HP (can't remember if HP or Def) and its IV spread is pretty average. I survived a possible one shot so assume it was.

(have to use Gengar and Mime. Jr but lowered Gengar to 125 SP ATK using Ominous Wind since its assumed Fairy Wind will match)

Damage output was between 182 Minimum and 216 Maximum. Hydreigon with no EV in HP would be 294 which would be around 62% to 73%.

With two weaknesses...(changing to a bug to use Silver wind on a Grass/Psychic)

Minimum damage was 244 to 288. That would be... 83% - 97%. Which is more than what was shown. Average hit would be in the 90% range...

So it really doesn't look like it was x4 SE damage. Psypoke's calculator (allowed me to put proper attack and defense ranges thank you holy figure) disagrees with x4 damage doing so little damage. to a Pokemon such as Hydreigon.

No IVs or EVs added at all.


I made an oopsie. I forgot to change Gengar to a bug type so the previous calcs didn't add STAB.

x4 SE hit with a base 60 does 364 - 432. Well over Hydreigon's HP levels and around 90% on a fully supported HP Hydreigon)



Don't have any experience doing calculations myself, but Psypoke's calculator seems fairly good choice to use. Its a bit outdated (Gen 4) but I don't think the damage formula changed between 4 and 5 from my battle experiences so it seems accurate.

I forced the attacks to 125 (Gardevoir) and defense to 90 (Hydreigon) to get a rough estimate and based some info on personal discoveries with my Hydreigon who cannot take a Focus Blast which is possibly stronger than Fairy Wind. Only changed Pokemon to match types to meet standards of STAB and SE damage.

First was Ghost vs Psychic x2 SE w/STAB
Second was Bug vs Grass/Psychic x4 SE w/STAB

Using Hydreigon's HP 294 to 388
First came out 182 to 216 Which is between roughly 60% to 80%
Second came out 346 - 432 Roughly 100% unless full HP Supported.

Looks like Fairy isn't SE against Dark. (Battle experiences peoples may check my work. This is foreign territory for me.)
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  #236    
Old June 17th, 2013 (06:45 PM).
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I'm not fussed about the extra type, just makes it more diverse but one thing I would like to see is gyarados become a water/fairy type just cause it would be awesome.
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Old June 17th, 2013 (07:46 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Fired up Cat:
I'm not fussed about the extra type, just makes it more diverse but one thing I would like to see is gyarados become a water/fairy type just cause it would be awesome.
This is one of the Pokemon I would least expect to get the retyping. The reason it isn't Dragon to begin with (which is a more likely retyping given its appearance, used by Lance, etc) is that it and Magikarp are based on a legend of a jumping carp, hence the flying typing when Magikarp evolves (but the lack of moves such as Fly).
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  #238    
Old June 18th, 2013 (01:26 AM).
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I never really got why Gyarados was part Flying until now! :D
It shouldn't be part Fairy though, what I would REALLY love for it to be part Fairy is Fennekin, everybody wants him part Psychic but what about Fairy? If he isn't then maybe in a future gen we'll get a Fairy starter (and a Dragon one for that matter), I can only hope...

Quote originally posted by bobandbill:
Considering that the development team is primarily Japanese, and the legal ramifications of using fan ideas, and the fact that they (and for that matter nigh near every other game company) have not done this practise... I think that feeling is more a hope than anything. Game Freak aren't looking at forums and implementing the ideas people throw up.
Actually what I said was more of a joke than anything else, that's what I intended, really.
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Old June 18th, 2013 (04:57 AM).
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Light Type Pokemon are real. There already is a whole type of pokemon who emit waves and fields of electro-magnetic radiation, some of which is visible to the human eye - "visible light"

What type is that? Electric Type. Fire Types also make a lot of Light and heat when they breath fire.

And people have already pointed out the Dark/Fight type relationship. Dark and Fight are opposing forces. Fight type trains for years to do "proper and respectable" attacks. Dark Type only uses "evil", underhanded, attacks of opportunity. Dark Types are criminal types who can't take an honest punch.

Considering that Bisharp looks like a power ranger, why is he Dark/Evil Type?
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Old June 18th, 2013 (05:59 AM). Edited June 18th, 2013 by Keiran.
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I have a feeling Dragons are gonna be liabilities now. I don't think they should have made Dragons weak to Fairy, but instead have Fairy-types resistant to Dragon-type moves. Dragons defenses are already easily exploited, their strength lies in their near unresisted STAB. Unless Fairy is resisted by multiple types, we can say goodbye to the usefulness of dragon dual-typing.

The amount of actually threatening dragons outside of ubers is like, what, 3? And because of Swift Swim, Multiscale and the near unresisted a-bomb that is dragon gem draco meteor.

I guess you could say I'm pretty worried about gen 6s type balancing.

Although I am really excited to see how it works out for Azumarill, one of my favorite Pokemon. Let's just hope there is a good physical Fairy move. ^•^
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  #241    
Old June 18th, 2013 (06:24 AM). Edited June 18th, 2013 by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire.
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The Fairy type hopefully will have some good members, with good enough stats to face up against dragon or they may end up like the Ice type. Btw if Ghost had overpowered Pokémon with the typing it could've end up like Dragon, being weak against only itself and Dark moves...and Electric's even worse with only one.
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Old June 18th, 2013 (07:16 AM).
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Quote originally posted by XanderO:
Its my first time doing calculations and I did this in the battle chat concerning Fairy and SE against Dark. I used what I assumed to be a look alike attack for Fairy Wind to try and cal damage x4 SE should have done if Fairy were SE to Dark and Dragon.




Don't have any experience doing calculations myself, but Psypoke's calculator seems fairly good choice to use. Its a bit outdated (Gen 4) but I don't think the damage formula changed between 4 and 5 from my battle experiences so it seems accurate.

I forced the attacks to 125 (Gardevoir) and defense to 90 (Hydreigon) to get a rough estimate and based some info on personal discoveries with my Hydreigon who cannot take a Focus Blast which is possibly stronger than Fairy Wind. Only changed Pokemon to match types to meet standards of STAB and SE damage.

First was Ghost vs Psychic x2 SE w/STAB
Second was Bug vs Grass/Psychic x4 SE w/STAB

Using Hydreigon's HP 294 to 388
First came out 182 to 216 Which is between roughly 60% to 80%
Second came out 346 - 432 Roughly 100% unless full HP Supported.

Looks like Fairy isn't SE against Dark. (Battle experiences peoples may check my work. This is foreign territory for me.)
I got a friend of mine to help me out with calcs (thanks wolflare!).

0 SpA Gardevoir Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hydreigon: 170-204 (52.3 - 62.76%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

This is assuming focus blast's power is changed to 60, and that's not counting a double weakness. A double weakness would be an automatic OHKO, hydreigon isn't that bulky enough to take a STABed Fairy Wind to the face if it was 4x weak to it.

0 SpA Gardevoir Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hydreigon: 340-408 (104.61 - 125.53%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Assuming hydreigon is 4x weak to fairy, this is what would happen.

So it's highly doubtful that, either way, it would be 4x effective because hydreigon would die at that garde's attack, quite simply. u_u
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Old June 18th, 2013 (08:57 AM).
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Quote originally posted by Twilight Sky:
I got a friend of mine to help me out with calcs (thanks wolflare!).

0 SpA Gardevoir Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hydreigon: 170-204 (52.3 - 62.76%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

This is assuming focus blast's power is changed to 60, and that's not counting a double weakness. A double weakness would be an automatic OHKO, hydreigon isn't that bulky enough to take a STABed Fairy Wind to the face if it was 4x weak to it.

0 SpA Gardevoir Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hydreigon: 340-408 (104.61 - 125.53%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Assuming hydreigon is 4x weak to fairy, this is what would happen.

So it's highly doubtful that, either way, it would be 4x effective because hydreigon would die at that garde's attack, quite simply. u_u
That's what I've been saying. We have pretty much the same outcome using different scenarios. Based on both Fairy isn't Super Effective against Dark.
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Old June 19th, 2013 (12:43 AM).
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Quote originally posted by XanderO:
That's what I've been saying. We have pretty much the same outcome using different scenarios. Based on both Fairy isn't Super Effective against Dark.
Thank God, a lot of cool Pokémon like Tyranitar, Weavile and Krookodile already have enough weaknesses, adding another one wouldn't help them at all.
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Old June 19th, 2013 (03:14 AM).
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Wow a new Pokémon type. We shall see how this plays out.

How do you feel about such a late type addition? Was it needed? Do you personally feel it was necessary, or was the game fine as it was?
Ehh, personally I believe it's not going to work, like really a fairy type :/ this new type was not needed it was not necessary. Ok, is there anything to justify this new type emerging? Why did it emerge?

Do you like the name "Fairy" or is it too similar to the egg group "Fairy"? Should the type have been named something else i.e. Light? (Light vs. Dark)
The name fairy could of been improved on, make it quick I would have preferred the name Divine instead of fairy.
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Old June 19th, 2013 (03:43 AM).
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How do you feel about such a late type addition? Was it needed? Do you personally feel it was necessary, or was the game fine as it was?
The games always open to improvements. Personally I would rather they just introduced less dragons, rather than giving them an extra weakness (quite a lot of pokémon get Ice moves, lots of dragons are weak to Rock and it's an incredibly common attacking move type).

Do you like the name "Fairy" or is it too similar to the egg group "Fairy"? Should the type have been named something else i.e. Light? (Light vs. Dark)
Perhaps the entire egg group will get the new type? Hopefully not, many are already dual-typed, and Manaphy doesn't need it to be able to pwn dragons. I kinda hope Phione does though, just to make it even more unique.
Loving how they've made the new Eeveelution Fairy, and continued the trend of new evolutions every even numbered generation.
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Old June 19th, 2013 (04:36 AM).
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People think that the pokemon in the fairy egg group will all get the fairy type....

I think it's more likely that the fairy egg group will be renamed so as not to be confused with the new type. I could see Clefairy and Snubbul having their classifications altered too. After all I don't think there's such a thing as "The Dragon Pokemon" or "The Water Pokemon". Clefairy might become "The Moon Pokemon" and Snubbul "The bulldog pokemon". They would probably still be retconned to fairy type though.
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Old June 19th, 2013 (05:04 AM).
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Normal should have an advantage against any type because their moves are meant to be neutral, the jack-of-all-trades. Dark should have an advantage against fairies because of dark's more sly and brutal characteristics. Dragons, sure, big and vicious, but Dark is different from their kind of brutality as they implement trickery, foul play and unfairness to achieve strength.
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Old June 19th, 2013 (05:14 AM). Edited June 19th, 2013 by Freezer.
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Quote originally posted by Razor Leaf:
I really can't take this seriously because fairies kill dragons and now I'm thinking of Pokémon being some magical story world full of dragons and princes and wonderland creatures and ogres. Aka, Shrek: The Game.

Seriously though, I don't feel like having Fairy as a type makes very much sense. The others so far are okay; all based off real, general things with plenty of space for imagination (minus Dragon - but Dragon is badass anyway. Although honestly I always felt there to be a big lack of variation between Dragon types as it was) but this just feels so... restricting to me. What even qualifies as a fairy? When I think "fairy" I think something like Tinkerbell; a human form with wings and a magic wand. Either that or Navi from the LoZ games; in any case, something bright and flying with sparkles and fairy dust and other stuff like that. I really don't get why they felt they needed to bring a new type in, and honestly given some of the confirmed Fairy Pokémon (Gardevoir, Sylveon, Marill?) it feels like they're just chucking the type at... well, anything they can. I don't see what exactly makes these guys 'fairies' - mainly given that they're trying to build a type here off something which doesn't actually exist. I had the same issue with Dragons; they were cool but the actual typing made zero sense due to the lack of dragons in the real world. I never understood the logic behind dragons being weak to... well... dragons.

And regarding dragons - I'm glad that I'm not the only person who feels that the whole point of this type is to check Dragon-types. Which, honestly, wasn't worth a whole new type imo (and especially not when the fairy being strong against dragon thing makes no sense in the first place). They could've just introduced some better Ice-types, some sort of anti-Dragon items or moves or etc, but nahhh. They had to go screw everything up by throwing a whole new type which, as I keep saying, is in itself not possible to categorise due to it not existing in the first place.

...tl;dr I don't like it. I feel it's a really messy type due to the fact that it's impossible to say, with any solid reasoning, what a fairy is or what its advantages and disadvantages are and they could have done the same job by being more inventive in other areas.
Holy hyperbole batman! This post is a great example on how some take a video game franchise TOO seriouesly.

Your first mistake is wanting to apply realism to a game about catching monsters and putting them in your pocket so they can dogfight later. This is the same series where the reason Bug type is stronger than Dark is because it's all a reference to Kamen riders. Is Kamen Rider real? Of course not. Unless you believe in Power Rangers.

Trying to be logical will get you no where. Balance is first and always was. Typing doesn't have to make any sense. Why the hell is Haxorus, a Dinosaur, a Dragon type? Actually why is there a Dinosaur in the game? They're extinct! Oh, well they're badass so it doesn't matter! And why is Rhydon a Rock type? Last I checked Rhinoceroses are actually made of flesh, not rock. And the list goes on.

This is a GOOD decision GF made. I welcome a new type, especially if it nerfs Dragons, regardless if it's called "Fairy". (Lots of decisions here aren't any better either. Light? Magic? Divine? lol) You wanted Pokemon to be manly or something? Get out of here. Honestly if the reason why fairies are stronger than dragons is because of fairy tales then that's a pretty nice and cute little detail, and is completely in line with what Pokemon is.

Besides, fairies always existed in the series.
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  #250    
Old June 19th, 2013 (09:19 AM).
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Quote originally posted by Sabrewulf238:
People think that the pokemon in the fairy egg group will all get the fairy type....

I think it's more likely that the fairy egg group will be renamed so as not to be confused with the new type. I could see Clefairy and Snubbul having their classifications altered too. After all I don't think there's such a thing as "The Dragon Pokemon" or "The Water Pokemon". Clefairy might become "The Moon Pokemon" and Snubbul "The bulldog pokemon". They would probably still be retconned to fairy type though.
Not all Pokemon in the Dragon breed group are dragon types. two dragon types aren't in the dragon breed group. The breed group and type aren't really related so there's not mych chance that the fairy egg group is changing nor does that mean all pokemon in the egg group are going to be Fairy type.
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