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  #1    
Old June 22nd, 2013, 06:04 PM
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Drawing what they called a line “we cannot and will not cross,” more than 200 conservative activists released a letter Thursday vowing to ignore any U.S. Supreme Court ruling in favor of marriage equality for same-sex couples. The signers include prominent anti-LGBT activists and major figures from the national conservative movement.


Circulated by Liberty Counsel Action chairman Mat Staver and Common Good Alliance chairman Deacon Keith Fournier, under the banner of the equally ironically named Freedom Federation, the statement bore the title, “We Stand in Solidarity to Defend Marriage and the Family and Society Founded Upon Them.” After arguing that same-sex marriage goes against “natural moral law,” the signers claim that the Supreme Court has “no authority to redefine marriage,” writing:

As the Supreme Court acknowledged in the 1992 decision of Planned Parenthood v. Casey, its power rests solely upon the legitimacy of its decisions in the eyes of the people. If the Supreme Court were to issue a decision that redefined marriage or provided a precedent on which to build an argument to redefine marriage, the Supreme Court will thereby undermine its legitimacy. The Court will significantly decrease its credibility and impair the role it has assumed for itself as a moral authority. It will be acting beyond its proper constitutional role and contrary to the Natural Moral Law which transcends religions, culture, and time.

Despite these claims, the provisions of the U.S. Constitution grant the high court judicial power in “all cases, in law and equity, arising under this Constitution,” and the 14th Amendment guarantees “equal protection of the laws” for all persons.

Worse, the letter ends with a clear threat that conservatives will refuse to comply with any court ruling in support of marriage equality: “[M]ake no mistake about our resolve. While there are many things we can endure, redefining marriage is so fundamental to the natural order and the true common good that this is the line we must draw and one we cannot and will not cross.”

In addition to designated hate group leaders like Family Research Council president Tony Perkins and Traditional Values Coalition chairman Rev. Louis Sheldon, the list included Tea Party activist Ben Carson, Oklahoma State Rep. Sally Kern (R), former Ohio Secretary of State Ken Blackwell (R), former Republican presidential candidate Gary Bauer, conservative movement legend Richard Viguerie, Focus on the Family founder Rev. James Dobson, birther Joseph Farah, and disgraced Abramoff scandal figure Ralph Reed.
http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2013/0...iage-equality/

As many have said of this before, the movement for marriage equality is looking more and more like the civil rights movement every day.

A number of states quickly moved to adopt legislation preventing enforcement of new gun laws - Letting them charge federal employee's with felonys should they attempt to enforce the new laws. It, really, wouldn't suprise me if some conserative states quickly pushed legslation that would charge gays and lesbians with a felony for getting married or would charge those officiating over such marriages with felonys.
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Last edited by Mr. X; June 22nd, 2013 at 06:10 PM.
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Old June 22nd, 2013, 06:18 PM
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That's it? 200 people? Big woop. That's such a small, insignificant amount of people. Who cares?

What would there be to ignore anyway? If City Halls would have to issue marriage license then that's how it goes. It would be like saying "we're going to ignore driver's licenses", well that makes no sense at all. That's not really your thing to decide.
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Old June 22nd, 2013, 06:28 PM
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As of now it's 200. But more could easily sign on.

It's hard to say that 200 is a insignifigant number - numbers much less have caused signifigant changes in the past.
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Old June 22nd, 2013, 07:24 PM
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For one, I think that these are guys are a bunch of lunatics. They act as if the Supreme Court has never made the wrong choice or canceled a previous ruling with a new one. Two hundred really isn't that big of a number. While it could turn into more, it really doesn't have too much support. Not to mention, the Supreme Court would be making the choice in the "eyes of the people" then they would legalize it, because that is how a majority of us feel. In this instance, the conservatives are the minorities and they just need to step down.
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Old June 22nd, 2013, 08:12 PM
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What gets me is that they think that the Supreme Court can be boycotted.

why

just why

This further proves my point that stupid people are everywhere.

and that I am disappointed in every single one of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRIFORCE89 View Post
That's it? 200 people? Big woop. That's such a small, insignificant amount of people. Who cares?

What would there be to ignore anyway? If City Halls would have to issue marriage license then that's how it goes. It would be like saying "we're going to ignore driver's licenses", well that makes no sense at all. That's not really your thing to decide.
just adding on to this

Unless they are rich and/or in an influential government position (and let's be honest, they're probably middle-class or poorer), nothing 200 people "boycott" can affect anything.

If you want to make a difference, go on a march against all the gay people in the world. I'm sure that will turn out with no injuries.
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Old June 22nd, 2013, 08:20 PM
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Honestly, who cares if two people of the same gender get married. You don't like it, don't go to the wedding! I am straight and i really couldn't care less.

Quote:
just adding on to this

Unless they are rich and/or in an influential government position (and let's be honest, they're probably middle-class or poorer), nothing 200 people "boycott" can affect anything.
Exactly, it's not how many people, it's who those people are.
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Old June 22nd, 2013, 08:23 PM
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The way they're saying it,
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After arguing that same-sex marriage goes against “natural moral law,” the signers claim that the Supreme Court has “no authority to redefine marriage,”
It sounds like a good portion of the LGBT equality fight is coming from religious standards. Which should have no place in Government, imo, for one reason: It has to be in favor of the general public, not towards those that are religious only. It would make Government very unfair.
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Old June 22nd, 2013, 09:14 PM
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Old June 22nd, 2013, 09:24 PM
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That's 200 more people to add on the list of people I owe a flying fist the face to.

No, but seriously, let them ignore it. Won't change that it'll happen. Let them exercise their inalienable right to make asses of themselves.
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Old June 23rd, 2013, 01:34 AM
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The thing is, even if it is only 200 people, if they're loud enough and annoying enough, they'll get attention, and soon that 200 will be 1000 and so on.

It's sad that people are still fighting over something so simple as marriage, it doesn't hurt them, why do they care?
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Old June 23rd, 2013, 11:16 AM
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They care because they are prideful. They care more about losing and being wrong than what people they don't know actually do. Equality is inevitable, and they know it. They just need to learn how to brook change, even if it means letting go of their outlet for anger, fear and confusion; hatred and ignorance.

Anyways, if the Supreme Court doesn't rule in favor of equality it will prove just how corrupt our government really is. As if people need another example. *sigh*
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Old June 23rd, 2013, 03:37 PM
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You know they're afraid because they've said this. I hate to see people afraid of necessary changes. It would be one thing if they were just opposed to this, but saying they'd ignore the ruling shows they really don't care about the law unless it's the law they make. I hats that kind of hypocracy.
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Old June 23rd, 2013, 06:45 PM
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Uh huh. Thanks. I'll stay up here in Canada where I can legally marry my boyfriend already. Why is it that the US always has to be dragged kicking and screaming to grant segments of its population equal rights? The same was true for women's rights, and the same was true for the problem of slavery, and the same is true for the LGBT community. This keeps up and the U.S. will be one of the few countries left in the world that does not think the LGBT community deserves equal rights.
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Old June 23rd, 2013, 08:56 PM
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It has to do with Religion, really. Religion has always worked to slow down equality

All of these can be traced to Religious ideals - Slavery was a accepted practice in the bible, women were considered property in the bible, and homosexuals were hated in the bible.

This is why the south had such high rates of slavery - They followed the bible, the bible accepted slavery. This is why southern states are at the forefront of trying to strip women of their reproductive rights - The bible considers them to be property. And why the majority of southern states believe suppressing the rights of homosexuals is a good thing - Because this group commits acts against God.

It's more prevalent in this region since, on average, more people here adhere to Christian values, but it occurs in any state where their is a large number of religious conservatives in power.

Look at it on a international scale - All nations that deny specific groups of people do so because of religious ideals.
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Old June 24th, 2013, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. X View Post
It has to do with Religion, really. Religion has always worked to slow down equality

All of these can be traced to Religious ideals - Slavery was a accepted practice in the bible, women were considered property in the bible, and homosexuals were hated in the bible.

This is why the south had such high rates of slavery - They followed the bible, the bible accepted slavery. This is why southern states are at the forefront of trying to strip women of their reproductive rights - The bible considers them to be property. And why the majority of southern states believe suppressing the rights of homosexuals is a good thing - Because this group commits acts against God.

It's more prevalent in this region since, on average, more people here adhere to Christian values, but it occurs in any state where their is a large number of religious conservatives in power.

Look at it on a international scale - All nations that deny specific groups of people do so because of religious ideals.
Can you put a few more qualifiers there please?

It isn't simply religious. There are plenty of religious/faithful/spiritual people, myself included, who simply don't care. We recognize that these are legal issues, separate from religion. I think it's largely concentrated to the more evangelical types. Or those who take the Bible more literally, when they shouldn't. Just ignorance.
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Old June 25th, 2013, 01:14 AM
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So what if they ignore it? The law is the law. And ignore it as you will, you're not going to stop anything by pretending it doesn't exist.

The world really doesn't really work that way.

In fact, after seeing this all I can see them as is an obnoxious four year old shoving his fingers in his ears and going "Nyah-nyah-na-nah-boo-boo-I-can't-hear-you!" It's going to be about as effective as that is.

Legally, two hundred people 'ignoring' is going to do absolutely nothing. Two hundred people is less than one public school.

Marriage equality is going to happen. Try to stop it as you will, but it's just how the world is changing. People stuck in their religious bigotry need to take a step back and look at the world. The US wasn't built on religion at all, not once is it mentioned in the Constitution. It was meant to avoid that actually. Freedom of Religion includes freedom of belief, so believe all you want that marriage equality is wrong, you have that right, but that doesn't mean that it should remain illegal. And that doesn't mean that you have the right to force your beliefs on others, whether it be by attempts at conversion, slander, or what have you.

Separation of Church and State.

And if I hear one, just one mention of beastiality I will headdesk so hard you will need to buy me a new keyboard.
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Old June 25th, 2013, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by PhantomX0990 View Post
So what if they ignore it? The law is the law. And ignore it as you will, you're not going to stop anything by pretending it doesn't exist.

The world really doesn't really work that way.

In fact, after seeing this all I can see them as is an obnoxious four year old shoving his fingers in his ears and going "Nyah-nyah-na-nah-boo-boo-I-can't-hear-you!" It's going to be about as effective as that is.

Legally, two hundred people 'ignoring' is going to do absolutely nothing. Two hundred people is less than one public school.

Marriage equality is going to happen. Try to stop it as you will, but it's just how the world is changing. People stuck in their religious bigotry need to take a step back and look at the world. The US wasn't built on religion at all, not once is it mentioned in the Constitution. It was meant to avoid that actually. Freedom of Religion includes freedom of belief, so believe all you want that marriage equality is wrong, you have that right, but that doesn't mean that it should remain illegal. And that doesn't mean that you have the right to force your beliefs on others, whether it be by attempts at conversion, slander, or what have you.

Separation of Church and State.

And if I hear one, just one mention of beastiality I will headdesk so hard you will need to buy me a new keyboard.
Okay, but I'd like to add this little interesting fact: here are the states where bestiality is not illegal: AL, AS, DC, GU, HI, KY, MT, NV, NH, NJ, NM, MP, OH, TX, VT, VA, WV, WY. It is interesting because all but a few of these states have passed a constitutional amendment prohibiting same-sex couples getting married, or by statute do not allow same-sex couples getting married. Yep. In good 'ol Texas, having sex with your dog is okay by the law, but two people of the same sex in love getting married... that's a big no no!
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Old June 25th, 2013, 04:38 PM
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Thanks for posting about the Supreme Court. I am curious what the outcome of this will be. Hopefully it could open doors for people living with each other in general (friends, relatives, etc.) so they can be acknowledged as a "family" if they have lived together for some time. It sounds useful for the financial benefits as well. It's hard out there now and many people could use the help since many people are taking care of others and provide for them.
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Old June 25th, 2013, 05:36 PM
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The main thing that gets me is this country is still in need of alot of rebuilding and all people seem to care about if a guy can marry a guy or vise versa.. it sickens me... Last i checked were still in trillions of dollars of debt, so why cant that be the focus of everyone.. Including gays cause its not really gonna matter if you can marry or not if this country lies in ruins...
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Old June 25th, 2013, 05:47 PM
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The main thing that gets me is this country is still in need of alot of rebuilding and all people seem to care about if a guy can marry a guy or vise versa.. it sickens me... Last i checked were still in trillions of dollars of debt, so why cant that be the focus of everyone.. Including gays cause its not really gonna matter if you can marry or not if this country lies in ruins...
What kills me is that there are actually people that exist who think human beings can only concentrate on one thing at a time. In this case, it is especially humorous to see that people don't realize that gays being able to marry DOES directly affect the economy. By denying same-sex couples the right to get married, states are in fact inhibiting the very economy they seek to improve. Millions would pour in to state's coffers with the money gay couples getting married would spend. Every little bit of economic growth helps, no matter how little.

As for the defeatist attitude, come on. The U.S. is no where near the point of collapse. It's only alarmists who think that. The U.S. economy is growing. Granted at a snail's pace, but it is growing nonetheless.
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Old June 25th, 2013, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Jay_37040 View Post
What kills me is that there are actually people that exist who think human beings can only concentrate on one thing at a time. In this case, it is especially humorous to see that people don't realize that gays being able to marry DOES directly affect the economy. By denying same-sex couples the right to get married, states are in fact inhibiting the very economy they seek to improve. Millions would pour in to state's coffers with the money gay couples getting married would spend. Every little bit of economic growth helps, no matter how little.
You clearly took my post personally, also you didn't understand my statement so let me clarify..

There are more pressing issues than same sex marriage.. Its selfish, people are more concerned about themselves and what they want, to be concerned with the big picture. There are a tons of gays out there who want to marry, there also tons who don't even have a partner. You assume that legalizing same sex marriage would somehow improve the economy. That is a bold assumption based on what you believe, not fact. It could help just a bit but not as much as you seem to think. Anyways I said my piece I wont be replying again...

Quote:
As for the defeatist attitude, come on. The U.S. is no where near the point of collapse. It's only alarmists who think that. The U.S. economy is growing. Granted at a snail's pace, but it is growing nonetheless.
I never said the country isn't doing better but were decades away from being in the clear and any day it could just as easily get worse.. Its amazing how people always assume the worst cannot happen when infact it can happen at any time and the natural disasters this year has cost the US billion of dollars(another thing I'd consider more important than same sex marriage) on top of the money we already don't have, and who know what will happen to costs us more the year isn't over yet.. but anyways im off topic.. so I'm done
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Old June 25th, 2013, 08:54 PM
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So conservatives are currently making more of a fit over who should be able to get married instead of how we can make the economy better? When you really think about it, the economy could get a nice little benefit if same-sex couples were given the chance to marry. Granted, the decision coming tomorrow will just bring DOMA down at the most, but it's nice to think about really. I mean, it's not like the Yellowstone Caldera is going to erupt if they're getting married or anything.
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Old June 25th, 2013, 10:08 PM
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While we're on the topic, can someone please clarify what exactly is going on in the case? I read the Wikipedia article, and if I'm reading it right, its based on taxes that were issued toward a widowed wife regarding the estate she was awarded when her wife passed. She was taxed, even though same-sex marriage was accepted in New York, but because of the Defense of Marriage Act, her marriage wasn't recognized and the estate wasn't handled/taxed in the same way a different sex marriage couple would have been?? Is that the case?

What exactly will the ruling determine tomorrow? If the Defense of Marriage Act is unconstitutional? If barring same-sex marriage is unconstitutional? I thought that the government -- including the judicial side -- as a whole was pretty much on the same page that that lies within the states powers? If they determine that the Defense of Marriage Act is unconstitutional, would that mean that same sex marriage is automatically legal? I don't understand. What's going on?
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Old June 26th, 2013, 01:36 AM
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While we're on the topic, can someone please clarify what exactly is going on in the case? I read the Wikipedia article, and if I'm reading it right, its based on taxes that were issued toward a widowed wife regarding the estate she was awarded when her wife passed. She was taxed, even though same-sex marriage was accepted in New York, but because of the Defense of Marriage Act, her marriage wasn't recognized and the estate wasn't handled/taxed in the same way a different sex marriage couple would have been?? Is that the case?

What exactly will the ruling determine tomorrow? If the Defense of Marriage Act is unconstitutional? If barring same-sex marriage is unconstitutional? I thought that the government -- including the judicial side -- as a whole was pretty much on the same page that that lies within the states powers? If they determine that the Defense of Marriage Act is unconstitutional, would that mean that same sex marriage is automatically legal? I don't understand. What's going on?
Actually both cases are being ruled upon separately in a few hours.

The first challenge is against the Section 3 of the Federal Defense of Marriage Act (United States v. Windsor) which codifies the non-recognition of same-sex marriages for all federal purposes, including insurance benefits for government employees, Social Security survivors' benefits, immigration, and the filing of joint tax returns. This is expected to be struck down.

The second case is against California Proposition 8 (Hollingsworth v. Perry) which is a 2008 ballot initiative that amended the state constitution to allow only opposite-sex couples to marry. This is the more wild card case in which the court could go several different ways, 1. Dismissal of the case, 2. A narrow ruling, or 3. A nationwide ruling.
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Old June 26th, 2013, 02:17 AM
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There are more pressing issues than same sex marriage.. Its selfish, people are more concerned about themselves and what they want, to be concerned with the big picture.
Ah yes, more pressing issues than the oppression of a minority group, that's right.
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