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  #26    
Old June 26th, 2013, 02:50 AM
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Originally Posted by KingCharizard View Post
You clearly took my post personally, also you didn't understand my statement so let me clarify..

There are more pressing issues than same sex marriage.. Its selfish, people are more concerned about themselves and what they want, to be concerned with the big picture. There are a tons of gays out there who want to marry, there also tons who don't even have a partner. You assume that legalizing same sex marriage would somehow improve the economy. That is a bold assumption based on what you believe, not fact. It could help just a bit but not as much as you seem to think. Anyways I said my piece I wont be replying again...
You're right, wanting equal rights is a selfish thing, and I think ensuring equality for all should be the top concern of any body, yes, even above economic interests. If even one segment of the population does not enjoy equal rights, it negatively affects the economy. You're of the mistaken assumption that gay marriage has no affect on the economy. You assume that I'm making an assumption, but you would be wrong. I've read enough reports by economists on this very matter all of whom say that granting equal rights to gays and lesbians would put much needed dollars into the economy.

As you accurately point out, there are lots of people who are gay who wish to get married. I submit there are millions of couples in the US alone who wish to be married. Imagine the amount of money they could put into the economy if they were permitted to marry. Imagine how much they would contribute to the local community's economy especially.

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Originally Posted by KingCharizard View Post
I never said the country isn't doing better but were decades away from being in the clear and any day it could just as easily get worse.. Its amazing how people always assume the worst cannot happen when infact it can happen at any time and the natural disasters this year has cost the US billion of dollars(another thing I'd consider more important than same sex marriage) on top of the money we already don't have, and who know what will happen to costs us more the year isn't over yet.. but anyways im off topic.. so I'm done
As I mentioned earlier, I view making sure all peoples have equal right more important than any other consideration.
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  #27    
Old June 26th, 2013, 05:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harlequin View Post
Ah yes, more pressing issues than the oppression of a minority group, that's right.

so now people are saying being gay is the same as being black(African American)? Really? WTH is going on with the planet..

No one seemed to care when we came here and took everything from the Natives(American Indians)..

I'm really done with the topic.. I wasn't aware that not being able to marry is as severe as not being able to eat with white or everyone else, or you must give up ur seat to a white cause of the color of ur skin or it stops you from living your life as most others.. The only restriction gays have is not being able to marry. As a straight heterosexual man I look at marriage as something I plan to avoid at all costs, if I find love, good. But getting married is not a necessity to live a great life, or be with the one i love..

Quote:
You're right, wanting equal rights is a selfish thing, and I think ensuring equality for all should be the top concern of any body, yes, even above economic interests. If even one segment of the population does not enjoy equal rights, it negatively affects the economy.
Again you are arguing this like gays don't basically get every freedom any other american gets day to day.. The only thing a gay cannot do is marry, which like i said above does not in anyways stop them from living a full and glamorous life... You cannot argue this like its oppressing them because frankly it is not, blacks were oppressed, women were oppressed, gays are not.. Hell they are even allowed in the military. Everything I stated in this is MY OPINION agree with it or not it is mine to have.. I have nothing against gays, im not one of those people who think gays marrying is somehow ruining the tradition of marriage, besides that was ruined along time ago. Idc if two gays get married, like i said marriage means very little to me. I'm just saying there are more important issues than two people of the same sex being allowed to marry..
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  #28    
Old June 26th, 2013, 05:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingCharizard View Post
so now people are saying being gay is the same as being black(African American)? Really? WTH is going on with the planet..
Yes and no. Obviously being black is different from being gay, although some are both, because what ethnicity you are has no bearing on who you are attracted to. However, "race" is the same as sexual orientation, in that it is a born trait (and don't give me the "it's never been proven that people are born gay" argument. Enough evidence has accrued to prove that assertion false. People do not choose their sexual orientation). What the hell is going on with the planet is that people are rejecting discrimination. That's what. If that's a problem for you, oh well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingCharizard View Post
No one seemed to care when we came here and took everything from the Natives(American Indians)..
Also, during the time it was accepted, hardly any one complained that blacks were a subjugated people, or that women could not vote, or that gay people can be fired or evicted from their homes for being gay.... oh wait, gay people still can. my bad.

The point is, when people DO care, change happens for the betterment of all people.

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Originally Posted by KingCharizard View Post
Again you are arguing this like gays don't basically get every freedom any other american gets day to day.. The only thing a gay cannot do is marry, which like i said above does not in anyways stop them from living a full and glamorous life... You cannot argue this like its oppressing them because frankly it is not, blacks were oppressed, women were oppressed, gays are not.. Hell they are even allowed in the military. Everything I stated in this is MY OPINION agree with it or not it is mine to have.. I have nothing against gays, im not one of those people who think gays marrying is somehow ruining the tradition of marriage, besides that was ruined along time ago. Idc if two gays get married, like i said marriage means very little to me. I'm just saying there are more important issues than two people of the same sex being allowed to marry.
We are still being murdered for being who we are and loving someone of the same sex. We are being evicted from our homes and fired from our jobs because we are gay. We are denied on a regular basis public accommodations because we are gay. Anti-gay hate crimes are rising exponentially in the U.S. because people like you don't think our concerns should be the concerns of the nation. We are routinely harassed and beaten on by law enforcement officials because we are gay. Store refuse to service us or sell us products because we are gay. Pools refuse to recognize our families because we're not a traditional family. Should I go on, there is plenty more. You claim that gays and lesbians share the same rights as every other American, well I call BS on that assertion. I could relay to you countless anecdotal evidence to prove you're wrong. But I feel it would be pointless as you'd be too busy sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming out "la la la la la" just so you don't have to hear it.

Ignore the plight of your fellow Americans if you will, but believe me, nothing means more to us than securing for ourselves and our families equality under the law. I'm sorry that you think our concerns are minor ones only. I guess that's just because they don't affect you. Now THAT'S selfish.
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  #29    
Old June 26th, 2013, 06:11 AM
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The Supreme Court has ruled that under the Equal Protection clause that the Federal Defense of Marriage Act "Demeans the people who are under lawful same-sex marriages" and is therefore Unconstitutional.

It is beyond the expected narrow ruling today written by justice Antony Kennedy.

US Supreme Court overturns gay marriage ban

Quote:
The US Supreme Court has struck down a law that defines marriage as between a man and a woman only, in a landmark ruling.

The court's 5-4 vote said the Defense of Marriage Act, known as Doma, denied equal protection to same-sex couples.

The decision means that legally married gay men and women are entitled to claim the same federal benefits available to opposite-sex married couples.
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  #30    
Old June 26th, 2013, 06:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Netto Azure View Post
The Supreme Court has ruled that under the Equal Protection clause that the Federal Defense of Marriage Act "Demeans the people who are under lawful same-sex marriages" and is therefore Unconstitutional.

It is beyond the expected narrow ruling today written by justice Antony Kennedy.

US Supreme Court overturns gay marriage ban
Hmmm, tighter than I thought it would be, but a win is a win and I congratulate the United States for taking one step closer to equality for all its citizens.
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  #31    
Old June 26th, 2013, 06:36 AM
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The United States Supreme Court has also refused to rule on the California Proposition 8 case, holding that the people suing do not have standing and therefore let's the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals narror California ruling stand. Thereby same-sex marriages are now legal in the State of California.

http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions...2-144_8ok0.pdf
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  #32    
Old June 26th, 2013, 06:50 AM
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That proposition passing back in '08 was a mistake on my state's part and as a Californian, I for one am happy to see it gone.
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  #33    
Old June 26th, 2013, 06:57 AM
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Two wins! Looks like I figured right on both counts, that DOMA would be struck down because of a conflict with the constitution, and that the Prop 8 case would be dismissed because the defenders of Prop 8 did not have standing in Federal Court. Que the anti-gay groups' reactions...
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  #34    
Old June 27th, 2013, 11:51 AM
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Oh so we're bringing up prop 8

I remember trying to explain to the people at church why Prop 8 wasn't in accordance with the Bible in addition to being unconstitutional. They accused me of "not reading the entirety of the Bible" and I've been discriminated against ever since ("oh we feel like you aren't ready to lead ~" what the f seriously? I've been baptized and I come to church every single week and I fight for tolerance of Christians wtf guys.)

and for the record, it's not right because the bible allows people to have free choice (ie "Liberty") and secular law protects free choice/Liberty.

and to all the people who are like "oh no" just remember you don't have to show up at the wedding.
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Originally Posted by Mr. X View Post
It has to do with Religion, really. Religion has always worked to slow down equality

All of these can be traced to Religious ideals - Slavery was a accepted practice in the bible, women were considered property in the bible, and homosexuals were hated in the bible.

This is why the south had such high rates of slavery - They followed the bible, the bible accepted slavery. This is why southern states are at the forefront of trying to strip women of their reproductive rights - The bible considers them to be property. And why the majority of southern states believe suppressing the rights of homosexuals is a good thing - Because this group commits acts against God.

It's more prevalent in this region since, on average, more people here adhere to Christian values, but it occurs in any state where their is a large number of religious conservatives in power.

Look at it on a international scale - All nations that deny specific groups of people do so because of religious ideals.
This is starting to sound a little creepily anti-people-who-believe-in-crazy-things so I'm just going to say here that not many people actually think that all those Leviticall;kjaergiurehw laws are true.

And even if they were, they were told specifically in the Bible, while you were supposed to treat women like objects, you treat them like they're precious objects. You were supposed to treat slaves with love. That kind of thing.

So it's not the religion (it was actually trying to get the Israelites to treat everyone with more equality by using a more palatable analogy) but the people who are the problem.

And one last thing. Please oh pleaaaase read up on religious texts before complaining about religious people, if not to deter you, then to make a more informed argument. It's just like the "if you aren't gay, don't say what gay people are" rule. please?
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  #35    
Old June 28th, 2013, 05:56 PM
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People are actually considering this? It makes me laugh. It's the president's job to enforce rulings of the supreme court and as far as the US knows, he strongly supports rights of the LGBT community. Sure, people may still do it, but eventually it'll be found out and Obama will do something about it.
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