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Old July 1st, 2013, 02:26 AM
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I would love to use espeon and umbreon in my competitive team but they really arent worth the effort in my opionion they have and stats and at best and average movepool. They are just really gimmiky pokemon
Old July 1st, 2013, 02:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Forlornix View Post
I would love to use espeon and umbreon in my competitive team but they really arent worth the effort in my opionion they have and stats and at best and average movepool. They are just really gimmiky pokemon
I wouldn't say the eveelutions are weak....Especially Espeon and Umbreon. Espeon has a considerably high base Sp. Atk stat as well as speed, which makes it deadly. Umbreon, though lacking in the strength department, can be a great tank for the team. As for the movepool, it all depends on your opinion, though. Their moves are all right for me....Well, maybe they just don't fit your style of playing. You might want to reconsider throwing them away, though.
Do you think that a Pokemon needs to be strong? Nah, if I like it, then that's it, I'll take it.
Old July 1st, 2013, 02:39 AM
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Well, I dislike Espeon too, but i'll avoid harsh comments that could hurt it's feelings. But Umbreon could be pretty good in a competitive team - defensively. His 525 overall stats is no joke, for that matter.

A famous movepool used would be Toxic+Protect+Moonlight/Wish+Other(substitute or confuse ray work nicely). With his stats, he can pull it off pretty well and even be a pain for trainers that are caught off guard (having no fighting/bug moves).

But anyway, that's probably the best Umbreon could offer. Well, there's also baton-passing wish and/or other stats... but it's a really rare find nowadays. Yeah, the current meta is just full of mainstream movepools, sometimes it's not even fun anymore.

In all fairness, the only eevolution i find bad is Flareon. They still haven't fixed up the poor thing.
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Last edited by molivious; July 1st, 2013 at 02:44 AM.
Old July 1st, 2013, 03:26 AM
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Thanks I'm not planning to throw the guys just annoyed becuase they are some of my fave pokemon
So erm I have one of these ........ Apparently its rare
Old July 1st, 2013, 07:48 AM
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But they're not bad? Gamefreak just doesn't give some of them good toys to play with though, like poor Flareon.

If you want a good Eeveelution, there's Umbreon, Espeon, and Vaporeon, which I would say are the best of the bunch. Umbreon and Vaporeon are both bulky, and Espeon can hit hard and fast, plus its Dream World ability helps a lot. I don't think you need to have two of them on the same team, though.

Anyway, since this is leaning more on the competitive side, which my knowledge of is grim anyway, I'm going to throw this into Battle Center.

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Old July 1st, 2013, 12:00 PM
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Everyone is forgetting Jolteon! Beastly speed and special attack, my favorite of the Eeveeloutions honestly. Movepool may not be amazing, but it has all the moves it could possibly need in it's small movepool.

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Last edited by Outnumbered; July 1st, 2013 at 08:36 PM.
Old July 1st, 2013, 01:01 PM
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If you are seeing an issue with Espeon and Umbreon maybe you are just not using them the way they are intended? Umbreon is really only useful when used for team support. It can heal status and restore teammates HP through wish. Other than that it really isn't useful. As for Espeon, while it can run a special attacking set, it also makes a good support Pokemon bouncing back hazards and baton passing boosted stats.

Others like Flareon, Glaceon, and Leafeon are NU because of shallow movepools and there are superior Pokemon that can serve the same purpose they do.

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Old July 1st, 2013, 02:41 PM
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Umbreon is a great special wall in the UU tier, it's my go-to pokemon if I need bulk. It's also nice in that it can carry wish, so it can either toxic stall or act as a team healer. Espeon can prove useful in many situations where other Psychic types, namely Alakazam, cannot

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Old July 1st, 2013, 03:39 PM
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Not all Eeveelutions are bad, Umbreon makes a great defensive wall, Vaporeon has balanced stats and access to Surf as well as Ice Beam to counter Grass Pokemon, while Espeon became really good thanks to his Magic Bounce ability. And Jolteon is a popular choice of Electric-type in OU as well so definitely not bad at all.

The other three may have sucky movepools though, which is probably why they are bad and therefore had to settle for NU.
Old July 1st, 2013, 03:51 PM
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Sure, Espeon goes down fast but it's one of only 3 pokemon to get Magic Bounce (an AMAZING ability), plus it gets dual screens and hits like a truck. Seriously, Magic Bounce is awesome. Your opponent wants to set up Stealth Rocks? Magic Bounce bounces 'em back. Tired of getting hit by Spore and Toxic? Now they've just afflicted themselves instead. I had a team that had little tolerance for entry hazards, and Magic Bounce was a godsend. The amount of times I could use it to get a free switch AND put the opponent at a disadvantage was amazing.
And like the others said, Jolteon is frightening, Umbreon is nigh-unkillable, and Vaporeon is nigh-unkillable while still being able to hit back.
Old July 1st, 2013, 04:43 PM
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Teach them the right moves and they'll be unstoppable. All 8 of them are great.
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Old July 1st, 2013, 05:05 PM
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I wouldn't say they are gimmiky pokemon, if they have weak stats, in pokemon white, white 2 or black, black 2 you can find things to improve your stats at the subway system for BP. Exepct for the train for anveill town.
Old July 2nd, 2013, 01:17 AM
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You said that two best competitive Eeveelutions aren't worth?
Um... what kind of Pokemon do you use? o.O
As others said, Espeon is pretty good special sweeper and with access to Psychic and Signal Beam, it can sweep many used Pokemon in competitive battling.
And Umbreon is one of the best walls ever created. Protect + Wish + Toxic is deadly combo.
If those two are not enough... what is?
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Old July 2nd, 2013, 02:12 AM
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I'm not saying they are the worst I'm just saying that there are alot better pokemon and I wish they where better because I really like the idea of the eeveelutions I just wish they where more powerful :/
So erm I have one of these ........ Apparently its rare
Old July 2nd, 2013, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Forlornix View Post
I'm not saying they are the worst I'm just saying that there are alot better pokemon and I wish they where better because I really like the idea of the eeveelutions I just wish they where more powerful :/
Use them well, utilize their strengths and you will see they ARE powerful.
Umbreon can obliterate a whole team if used properly
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Old July 10th, 2013, 04:30 AM
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Vaporeon - Milotic Foxy
Flareon - Cuddle cat....and thats about it
Umbreon - Why so Confuse Ray?
Espeon - I'm like Jolteon if you switched typing and turned it into a pink cat
Leafon - All hail the magical sunny day leaf blade

And thats my thoughts on the eeveelutions.
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Old July 11th, 2013, 09:42 PM
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Espeon definitely has a spot on nearly any competitive team just given his ability. He actually plays pretty decent dual screen support as well, or can be used as a special sweeper of sorts. There's really no denying though that if it weren't for magic bounce, espeon would have very little competitive viability. After all, Alakazam outclasses Espeon both Sp. Attack and Speed wise, and has access to focus blast for coverage. That's really the reason why I decide to run screens on espeon instead of an orb or specs set.

Umbreon, in my opinion, has always been a pretty decent stall poke with access to wish support. I really feel that he took a big hit in 5th generation with so many new fighting types emerging, as well U-turn becoming more commonplace than ever. However, Umby can be a nightmare to deal with against an unprepared team. When you're looking at your opponent's team preview, pick out the individual pokemon that you feel Umbreon shuts down, and the ones that will give him trouble. If you make it your priority to take down the threats as soon as possible, and really by any means, then umbreon can potentially take the game all by himself.

While on the subject, I guess I may as well talk about a couple of the other Eeveelutions. Vap is good, always has been good, and has arguably improved with the hydration + drizzle combo making vaporeon almost unkillable sometimes. Not to mention that scald is pretty much the best thing that ever happened to him and several other bulky water types this generation. And on the subject of pokes that benefit from rain, Jolteon is alright I guess. I really feel that he gets outclassed by pokemon like Thundurus-T, but there's no denying that his speed stat is a godsend, and as a result he's an excellent part of several volt turning teams. Also dropping life orbs thunders in the rain is aight I guess.
Old July 11th, 2013, 11:03 PM
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Eeveelutions are far from bad. Whilst they are not all made for standard play they do have their upsides. Espeon, Jolteon and Vaporeon are all members of OU and deserve their place there. All 3 have amazing special attack whilst Espeon and Jolteon are great in speed, Vaporeon has amazing special defense and HP. Espeon is a great dual screener whilst it can also pack a punch. Jolteon can use its speed and power (and decent moves that it has, albeit not many) and Vaporeon can use its hydration ability for use on rain teams coupled with Rest and other moves.

Umbreon, Flareon, Leafeon and Glaceon are the runts (the latter 2 more than the former) whilst Umbreon has amazing defenses it lacks power and thus only letting moves like Toxic be its way of damaging opponents, however it does make a great wall. Glaceon and Leafeon are mainly for NU, both have great stats but their movepool lacks (Something that all Eon Pokemon share)

Flareon is brilliant and has all the tools for being great... Except for not having a decent physical fire move.
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Old July 12th, 2013, 04:51 AM
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Vaporeon is the most annoying wall I've ever fought,worse then Skarmory,worse then Evolite chansey,I forget is Espeon still OU? as a side note,its not that they're bad really,its just that they have mediocre move-pools,sure Umbreom is a amazing wall but its taunt-bate,which is why it was mostly replaced by Sableye/
Old July 15th, 2013, 09:50 AM
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The only Eeveelution I would say is good in OU is Vaporeon.

1. Espeon might look like it's good in theory with its amazing ability called Magic Bounce, as well as its high speed and great Special Attack. However, in practice, it is found that Xatu is actually better, because it can set up dual screens much more reliably than Espeon could ever hope, thanks to its access to Roost, Night Shade, Heat Wave to OHKO Ferrothorn and Forretress, U-turn to gain momentum, Haze to remove stat boosts, and so on. While it does have four moveslot syndrome, Xatu can pick two of these moves and be more useful than Espeon overall.
2. Jolteon has 130 base speed and 110 base special attack, which screams rain sweeper. However, it faces huge competition from Thundurus-T, who sports even higher special attack, has the movepool to back it up (Focus Blast, Grass Knot), can actually attack from the physical side and thus OHKO Tyranitar with Superpower. While Thundy-T is weak to Stealth Rock and somewhat slower, I would say it's overall better than Jolteon.
3. Umbreon is just bad. Too many sweepers can set up on it while all it can do in return is Toxic. If it only had access to Roar...
4. Leafeon... Venusaur and Tangrowth exist for a reason.
5. Flareon is already bad, with its strongest physical Fire-type move being lolFireFang. Plus it's outclassed by Darmanitan and Victini.
6. Glaceon: Completely outclassed by Kyurem (-B).
Escavalier literally is 2HKOed by Stoutland Fire Fang, Metang was undoubtedly the much better choice.
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Last edited by AmourPearlShipper; July 15th, 2013 at 10:02 AM.
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