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  #26    
Old August 11th, 2013 (10:24 PM).
Limerent Limerent is offline
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Quote originally posted by Livewire:
You can still be a "racist" and not lynch anyone, those are really extreme examples of racial hatred that doesn't really back up your point. It's much more than purely physical actions, it can manifest in a variety of ways. So don't warp the definition to fit your odd semantics lesson. You're splitting hairs.

And what? How about those Voter ID laws that disproportionately target people of color? Which would be institutionalized racism.
This is true, you don't have to be lynching blacks because they're black or shooting Latinos crossing the U.S border to be a racist. A lot of racism in the West does not manifest itself in violent acts or genocide, occasionally you'd hear about hate crimes but it's pretty rare, apart from street crime being influenced by race, as twocows suggested.

Racism as prejudice and stereotypes of others in discriminatory acts or verbal abuse is EXTREMELY widespread, go to America and ask different ethnic and cultural group what they think of each other and you'll get quite a few racist responses, particularly with the amount of people on social media spouting hate or in public just expressing negative views of other races due to being poorly educated and influenced by sources around them like peers or the media. It even happens a lot in Australia as Zaki said, I haven't experienced racism personally but a few groups do get discriminated against or thought of negatively to some degree. I think stereotyping certain races is natural and unavoidable, even I do it, but it becomes racism when you actually hate groups based on these thoughts.

Do you think modern day racism is based solely from 18th to early 20th century colonization of the world and the imperialistic views of European powers? Where anybody of a non-European culture was thought of inferior and uncivilized, a class below everyone else and to be abused, used as slaves etc... Now most Anglo-Saxon/Caucasian people have moved on from that view but the continued lack of opportunity for ethnic groups and long standing tension and stereotypes encouraged in society by the opinions and actions of certain groups has kept racism alive and thriving... We even see counter-racism, i.e African Americans being racist to Caucasians because they were previously discriminated against, and the cycle continues...
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  #27    
Old August 12th, 2013 (03:51 AM).
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"Racism," defined as "actions targeted toward other races based on some form of prejudice", is alive in some parts of the world. However, its existence in the first world (at least in the US) is trivial.
Alright I admit it was my bad rushing to conclusions and getting pissed off irrationally but, you say here yourself that racism is defined as actions targeted towards other races based on some form of prejudice. I had a teacher a couple years ago that would berate black students and unfairly grade them.

I've heard from friends at other schools that this has happened other places too. So technically that's an action targeted to another race based on a form a prejudice is it not?
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  #28    
Old August 12th, 2013 (08:25 AM).
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I agree that racism is rarely violent. I don't recall getting beaten up for being Lebanese - just taunted and yelled at. Racism doesn't even have to be expressed. There are people who tend to avoid other races without saying anything.

Counter-racism is definitely there. I was a lot more racist when I was younger. When I lived in Sydney, I tended to associate with mostly Lebanese people because I felt comfortable with them. I had a distrust for other people. Ironically, most of my family is not racist at all. I come from a very modern family. They're religiously liberal - for example, most of the women in my family don't cover their heads.

A lot of racism has to do with imperialism. But it can do with historic rivalries to, such as the one between Turks and Greeks or the one between Serbs and Croats. People in some of those countries are still holding grudges because of events hundreds of years ago.

I think that religious intolerance counts as racism, because many ethnic groups tend to be affiliated with certain faiths.
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  #29    
Old August 13th, 2013 (03:49 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Livewire:
You can still be a "racist" and not lynch anyone, those are really extreme examples of racial hatred that doesn't really back up your point. It's much more than purely physical actions, it can manifest in a variety of ways. So don't warp the definition to fit your odd semantics lesson. You're splitting hairs.

And what? How about those Voter ID laws that disproportionately target people of color? Which would be institutionalized racism.
I didn't say it was limited to physical violence (or if I did, I didn't mean to), it's any "harmful action." Admittedly, lynching is an extreme example. However, my argument that it is not pervasive (not even close) remains. I live in probably one of the most prejudiced parts of Michigan outside of Detroit (a traditionally suburban area with a lot of old white people that's starting to experience the effects of urban sprawl) and I'm not aware of anything I'd call "racist" going on. Anecdotal, but still, I remain unconvinced that it's a widespread (or even somewhat common) problem here.

I don't know much about the laws (proposed laws?) that you're referencing. Is it a federal thing? Anyway, if it's just presenting valid identification, that's something everyone has; you need that stuff to get a job or drive a car.

Quote originally posted by ChiliDawgs:
Alright I admit it was my bad rushing to conclusions and getting pissed off irrationally but, you say here yourself that racism is defined as actions targeted towards other races based on some form of prejudice. I had a teacher a couple years ago that would berate black students and unfairly grade them.

I've heard from friends at other schools that this has happened other places too. So technically that's an action targeted to another race based on a form a prejudice is it not?
That would count, since she's doing something overtly harmful based purely on race. If things like that do happen a lot in your area, I can see where you're coming from. However, the US is a big place, and I still think that, by and large, people are mostly cool with each other.
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  #30    
Old August 17th, 2013 (01:31 PM). Edited August 23rd, 2013 by zakisrage.
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In relation to the above poster, I know that Michigan also has a very high concentration of Arab people. Dearborn is the example most given by the media, which is appropriate because I think its Arab community is the largest in the US. I read in an article that an Arab festival there was cancelled because of an Islamophobic protest. The protesters failed to realise that many of the Arabs there are actually Christian. According to the research I did, Michigan is a very diverse state. (Strangely, none of my relatives live in Dearborn.)
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  #31    
Old August 17th, 2013 (01:34 PM).
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I have a question. Where is the line drawn between racial prejudice and racism, do you believe they are the same?

Prejudice, or, to "pre-judge".

You and I alike prejudge others whether we are willing to admit it or not.

At what point does this become racism?
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  #32    
Old August 18th, 2013 (06:28 AM). Edited September 7th, 2013 by zakisrage.
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I guess maybe I was being a little too sensitive, but I remember for a while anti-Lebanese racism was everywhere, especially after the Cronulla riots. There were films made about it. They portrayed all Lebanese men as bogans with mullets or shaved heads, who dress in trashy clothing. None of my male relatives look like that. The film Cedar Boys was one that made me mad, especially since at least one of the Lebanese guys was portrayed by an Anglo-Celtic guy. (I do have relatives who can pass for British, but still...) The Lebanese men in the movie were basically portrayed just like I said. And calling us Lebs or Lebos is racist too. We're Lebanese, don't abbreviate it. Thankfully things are getting better for us Lebanese as people are forgetting about the Cronulla riots.

But our own community isn't blameless. I really dislike Lebanese who choose to act very stereotypical (in a bad way). It makes our community look bad, and it only strengthens the racism. I didn't want to tell any of the Australian users this at first, but when I was a kid, I lived in Lakemba. I hated it a lot - our flat was small and there was no air conditioning. The flat got very hot during the summer. The bugs were gigantic. Plus some of the people really sucked. My parents knew Taj el-Din Hilaly, the controversial mufti. They hated him a lot.

Hilaly is not even the worst goon. The worst is Sheik Feiz Mohammad. He does a great disservice to our community with his vicious anti-Semitism and him encouraging Muslim parents to let their children die as jihadist martyrs. He is brainwashing young Lebanese Australians into thinking that they have to be Islamists. I refuse to listen to this guy.

I admit, I have very little interest in British culture. I do like some of the entertainment, but mostly the safe stuff (especially the fairy tales - I remember reading the one about the poor boy with the cat over and over again). No Celebrity Big Brother for me. But I actually like the idea of Australia being part of the Commonwealth, and I always look forward to the Queen's visits. I also like our flag even though it obviously has the Union Jack.

People do make a lot of stereotypical assumptions about Australia. Besides the one that we're all blond, they assume that we're all great surfers and that we all talk like Steve Irwin. I can surf okay, but a lot of my friends can't. My best friend does have a very stereotypical Australian accent, but my girlfriend's accent is not very thick. At times she can almost sound like she's American. My voice sounds Middle Eastern, and it's very high-pitched for my gender. Some people say I sound rather feminine.
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  #33    
Old August 18th, 2013 (02:31 PM).
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Racism will always exist, because human beings will always look for a scapegoat or a group of people to project their negative feelings upon. Whether or not this is purposeful is up to debate. History has a large influence on how we treat other races and ethnicities, and it is very difficult to go against societal norms when they have been in place for hundreds (maybe even thousands) of years.
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  #34    
Old August 28th, 2013 (05:27 PM). Edited September 2nd, 2013 by zakisrage.
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I agree that will always be racism. A lot of people are oblivious to racism, though. They think it's just some piece of history. In fact, it's alive and well, and it's not going anywhere.

Old people are not excused for being racist. The old white lady from South Carolina who uses the N word all the time has no excuse - she's stupid and ignorant. I met the grandfather of the kid who picks on me all the time. He referred to Italians as "Mediterranean scum", and said even worse things about Aborigines. (I can see where his grandson gets it from.) The guy's son says "oh, he's 81 years old. He gets away with it". No he does not. I don't care if he's 200 years old - he's still a bigot. Thankfully none of my grandparents are racist.

Unfortunately, young people can be racist too. Besides the gang of bullies at my school, I've heard others. There's this video of these two white girls from Arizona who spend five minutes bashing Mexicans, telling them to "grab their burritos" and go back to Mexico. Those girls said all these other obnoxious things. I'm glad they got in trouble for it.
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  #35    
Old October 15th, 2013 (05:36 PM).
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Quote originally posted by zakisrage:
Unfortunately, young people can be racist too. Besides the gang of bullies at my school, I've heard others. There's this video of these two white girls from Arizona who spend five minutes bashing Mexicans, telling them to "grab their burritos" and go back to Mexico. Those girls said all these other obnoxious things. I'm glad they got in trouble for it.
Those weren't even the only ones!

Last year, I noticed a trend of videos where two white girls would complain about a minority group, saying as many racially charged things as possible. The worst was probably those girls. But some others were bad too. There were these two girls in Florida who got their school's security on lockdown after they talked about kids in their school "turning black".
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  #36    
Old October 15th, 2013 (06:41 PM).
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racism will always exist. because, as long as i have black skin, people with think i am African-American or just African

it really isn't anything bad or good, its just a description you have put together of some one based on their race.

i mean, i bad racism i guess exist on the internet, but that just because everyone feel safer here. they feel they can stay stuff without lash back or negativity. Though, for those people who use there face, they must be really confident. then again u still couldn't find out where they live...

that reminds me, on this video on Youtube, there was this guy who was trolling the commentors. is icon was that Black face kid. his typing was so bad,obviously to imitate bad language. it was kinda funny. =w=
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  #37    
Old October 15th, 2013 (09:30 PM).
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If you don't like racism, stay in the Southern half of the U.S.

What, you think I'm joking? NOPE.

I once went to a convention about campus events. I went to one "class" that was supposed to teach about diversity in campus events.

Now, understand here, I was from Texas at the time. To us, diversity meant accepting every race and expressing every culture fully - since we never have to worry about offending anyone, since no one is EVER offended, no matter what their background, since we properly understood the cultures that made up our campus.

I asked about how to better make events with all cultures. Seemed like a pretty normal question to me, but then this BLACK GUY stands up before anyone can answer. He says, "What? You think just because you're WHITE you should be making events for others' cultures?!"

...

...

Yes, he was being racist. When I told him no, we have plenty of events those of all background make for themselves and I just wanted to mix them into the same events, he didn't believe me. He started a storm, calling me racist, and getting everyone in his group to chant against me.

...

The dude wasn't naturally mean. It turns out, where he lives and groups like his - ALL OVER THE NORTHERN HALF OF THE US - they are incredible racist everywhere. That is, whites against blacks, blacks against whites, latinos against chinese, literally everything against everything else.

Those people went to the class wanting to learn better ways of making events for their own cultures without getting persecuted. When I put up the idea of wanting my campus to mix cultures, he blew up.

--

This was the first time, irl, that I had seen the effect of racism in the Northern U.S. Actually, that I had seen racism irl AT ALL. Normally, it was only in MMO chats, and of course...by players in the Northern U.S.

Very few people in the U.S. know that it was one of the last countries in the world to end slavery and then end racism. Even less people know that the South was always less racist than the North, even with slavery. And yet, groups from everywhere are taught incorrect history, being told lies and raised in ways that contradict even those lies, and then end up attacking every group they FEEL offends their group.

It's...bad. It's not just racism. It's everything. It's everywhere. It's terrible.
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  #38    
Old October 15th, 2013 (11:25 PM).
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I noticed how differently the term "Racist" has been defined in different parts of the world.
As far as I noticed, Americans speak of "Racism" in most cases, even when making a joke about one person of a foreign nationality.
Here in Europe, it's completely fine to make the said joke.

Arabs tend to be strict on "Racism" too.
If, for example, I tell an Iranese he is a fool, he shouts at me that I'm a Racist, while all the other people surrounding us just laugh at him for saying that.
But then? The same person hits an old man in his guts for being a white person, that's nothing Racist for him at all.

Finally, I've noticed Australians hardly have any problems with Racism, as long as you don't compare them to each other.
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Old October 16th, 2013 (05:07 AM).
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I think racism today is mostly about classism.

Here in Australia, the commonest form of racism I see is that of people who are uncomfortable around certain ethnic groups because of language barriers and especially because of their socio-economic backgrounds. That is, people who feel us-vs-them about other cultural groups are offended by kids who make a lot of noise, swear, and are poorly educated and seem aggressive or contrary on the whole; or annoyed by immigrants who aren't fluent in English and familiar with local etiquette, systems and rules.

Now, the same people who dislike these two groups aren't going to be as uncomfortable around someone well-educated from their own socioeconomic class, who just happens to be, say, indigenous, Asian, Arican, or what have you. Because the issue isn't really about skin colour or national origin. It's just culture difference, and classism.

I can only talk about what I've seen in my part of the world, in my (predominantly white) social groups.

But I do think classism is a major force in the modern economic world, and something we should be fighting just as hard as racism, if harder because it's an overlooked root problem. It's wrong to judge people based on the situation they were born into, just as much as it's wrong to judge them for their genetic traits.

Be aware of that socioeconomic factor. If you're uncomfortable about a broad group of people, not because of what they do but more because of who they are, that probably has something to do with it, more than racism does.
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Old October 16th, 2013 (05:14 AM).
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@Nymue In Australia, I've heard that there is a lot of racial conflict regarding aborigines. Is that right?

Quote:
I noticed how differently the term "Racist" has been defined in different parts of the world.
As far as I noticed, Americans speak of "Racism" in most cases, even when making a joke about one person of a foreign nationality.
Here in Europe, it's completely fine to make the said joke.

Arabs tend to be strict on "Racism" too.
If, for example, I tell an Iranese he is a fool, he shouts at me that I'm a Racist, while all the other people surrounding us just laugh at him for saying that.
But then? The same person hits an old man in his guts for being a white person, that's nothing Racist for him at all.

Finally, I've noticed Australians hardly have any problems with Racism, as long as you don't compare them to each other.
Not to be offensive, but your post just basically stereotypes people as being all one way or another. Real life is usually much more ambiguous.
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Old October 16th, 2013 (05:31 AM).
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Quote originally posted by Magic Christmas Lights:
@Nymue In Australia, I've heard that there is a lot of racial conflict regarding aborigines. Is that right?
Yep. People feel very conflicted because we feel culturally guilty about where they are now and why, but public policy has made *some* strides towards helping them out, and yet, as these things are, it's a big mess.

So you have a loooot of indigenous people in bad poverty, which leads to things that make people uncomfortable -- alcoholism, homelessness, hostility, ignorance, etc. And so you get people who looooove successful Aborigines like major actors, Olympic athletes, solid politicians, etc., but are scared of and/or even resentful toward the Aborigines they meet on the street, again, for class reasons.

You can even look at the roots of the problem as colonists treating "simple natives" as the ultimate socially immobile bottom class, the non-economic entity or subhuman. People who don't fit into a pre-existing economic system are really useful to ****heads like that.
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Old October 16th, 2013 (05:59 AM).
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Racism is very effing present. Thanks to those effing whites.

Now that statement I just said above is a racist comment which may not sound too racist to others. Of course I do not mean what I posted, just stating an example. Due to the anonymity the internet has to offer, many people openly states racist comments. However one problem is the internet content itself. Because of this free flowing media being readily available to anyone, it does in a way affect others subliminaly and unconsciously. Effect is even when one isn't a racist s/he mutters words that s/he may not know as a racist comment.
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Old October 16th, 2013 (06:32 AM).
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Quote originally posted by Magic Christmas Lights:
Not to be offensive, but your post just basically stereotypes people as being all one way or another. Real life is usually much more ambiguous.
Not that I have enough information about Australia to confirm that part, but there are still loads of Americans dwarrling around on the Internet.
In real life, we have lots of Islamitic people living here, in Europe, so I can accurately say about Europe and Arabs in general.
Of course I wasn't talking about all people in these groups, I was talking about the average.
In the end, no single person is equal, but you can still make an average measure out of it.
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Old October 16th, 2013 (06:46 AM).
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Europe is the birthplace of imperialist racist thought, and it's nowhere nearly as multicultural as North America, so perhaps there's some truth in what MKGirlism is saying. Europeans might think of immigration as invasion, as historically it's Europeans that did the immigrating. In North America, immigration is part of our identity. Nobody has a "blood claim" to this land (except for the natives I guess), but I can see that kind of argument being stronger in Europe.

Iranians aren't Arabs though, they don't even speak Arabic.
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Old October 16th, 2013 (08:01 AM).
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Well, I always thought every Muslim are classified as "Arab", but at the other hand, many Turkish people here say they aren't Arabs, even though they're Muslim.
It could be I'm wrong about it.
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Old October 16th, 2013 (08:23 AM).
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Yeah, that's a really big mistake, actually. I wouldn't want to go around perpetuating that misunderstanding if I were you. Islam is a religion, but being Arabic is being an ethnic group and speaking a certain language. There are Muslims that have an ethnic background from South and South-East Asia, and they certainly aren't Arabs.

I think some people classify Muslims as Arabs because they're ignorant and they have an agenda against Muslims. I don't listen to them because it's all propaganda, really, misleading people to think a certain way.
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Old October 16th, 2013 (08:32 AM).
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To say all Muslims are Arabs is incendiary to at least a minority from several groups, including Arab and non-Arab Muslims, as well as non-Muslim Arabs, since at least a small segment of each of these groups has some sense of either smug superiority or venomous hatred toward each of the other groups.

Racism does indeed exist today, it's just more subtle in America. It's societal and overt in many other parts of the world, though. Most racists will deny being racist if you confront them on it, however.
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Old October 16th, 2013 (08:38 AM).
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It's ignorant too though, blatant generalization. It's the same as saying all Christians are white.
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Old October 16th, 2013 (09:17 AM).
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The only way to be classified as Racist here, is when discriminating somebody based on skin colour, but for the most of the time, people here have a workaround for becoming angry about this.
I've met a couple of black people who I asked the question, "What do you say or do if somebody says "******"?".
Many of them told me they simply make fun of the ones who says that.
In the end, Racism is not prohibited, or something like that, people here rather look at it as something annoying.

In my opinion, everyone is a bit of a Racist, but it differs per person.
The one openly says they bloody hate them, the other only thinks about it, yet another one even loves them (positive Racism), etc.
And "them" being any Race other than you are, either specific, multiple, or all.

Edit: I didn't know there was a Word Filter on this Forum?
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Old October 16th, 2013 (09:23 AM).
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Silais Silais is offline
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In my opinion, we are just as racist as a country as we were fifty to one hundred years ago, it just isn't legal to do so any longer and thus we have shifted our discrimination away from the public eye or shield it within the confines of the law. We still disproportionately stop and frisk African Americans, we still considered Hispanics to be lazy and thieves, we still express scorn for the Native Americans. As white Americans, we have so many privileges and we simply do not realize it.
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