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  #26    
Old August 16th, 2013, 04:36 PM
PlatinumDude's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonoskay View Post
Can someone give me some suggestions for some support Pokemon? In game ive never delt with them much so i really have no clue about support pokemon.

And is there any real effective way to IV train without wanting to blow your brains out?

And do "tiers" actualy mean anything? aside from uber being generaly banned from standard battles , do tournys of these other "tiers happen?
Ferrothorn is one of the best support Pokemon ever, with its good typing and support movepool. Skarmory comes in close:

Ferrothorn:
-Stealth Rock/Spikes
-Leech Seed/Stealth Rock
-Power Whip/Protect/Leech Seed
-Gyro Ball/Thunder Wave
Nature: Relaxed
EVs: 252 HP/48 Def/208 SDef
Item: Leftovers/Shed Shell

Skarmory:
-Spikes/Stealth Rock
-Whirlwind
-Roost
-Brave Bird/Taunt
Nature: Impish/Careful
EVs: 224 HP/252 Def/32 SDef or 224 HP/32 Def/252 SDef
Item: Leftoves/Shed Shell
Ability: Sturdy

Or
-Stealth Rock
-Spikes
-Brave Bird
-Taunt
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 Spe
Item: Custap Berry
Ability: Sturdy

Forretress and Donphan are able to use Rapid Spin to clear away entry hazards while also providing their own:

Forretress:
-Spikes/Stealth Rock
-Rapid Spin
-Gyro Ball/Hidden Power (Ice)
-Volt Switch
Nature: Relaxed/Bold
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SDef
Item: Leftovers/Shed Shell
Ability: Sturdy

Donphan:
-Stealth Rock
-Earthquake
-Rapid Spin
-Ice Shard
Nature: Impish
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 Spe
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy

Gliscor is able to take advantage of Poison Heal to act as a physical wall:
-Earthquake
-Substitute
-Toxic
-Protect/Roost/Taunt
Nature: Impish
EVs: 244 HP/40 Def/224 Spe
Item: Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal

Or
-Earthquake
-Taunt/Toxic
-Ice Fang/U-turn
-Protect/Roost
Nature: Impish
EVs: 244 HP/248 Def/16 Spe
Item: Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal

Or
-Substitute
-Baton Pass
-Earthquake
-Swords Dance/Agility/Taunt
Nature: Impish
EVs: 244 HP/40 Def/224 Spe
Item: Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal

Blissey is the best Special wall in OU. Heatran comes in close.

Blissey:
-Stealth Rock/Aromatherapy
-Seismic Toss/Flamethrower
-Softboiled
-Toxic
Nature: Calm
EVs: 4 HP/252 Def/252 SDef
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure

Or
-Wish
-Protect/Softboiled
-Seismic Toss/Flamethrower
-Toxic
Nature: Calm
EVs: 4 HP/252 Def/252 SDef
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure

Heatran:
-Lava Plume
-Protect
-Roar
-Stealth Rock/Will-o-Wisp/Toxic
Nature: Calm
EVs: 248 HP/252 SDef/8 Spe
Item: Leftovers

Sableye or Whimsicott can abuse their wide support movepools in conjunction with Prankster to support the team through very annoying means:
Sableye:
-Taunt
-Will-o-Wisp
-Recover
-Foul Play/Night Shade/Snarl
Nature: Calm
EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 SDef
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Prankster

Whimsicott:
-Encore
-Leech Seed
-U-turn/Substitute
-Stun Spore/Taunt
Nature: Impish/Bold
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SDef
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Prankster

There are more supporters but I'll stop here.

Here's a guide on EV training.

The point of the tier system is to see which Pokemon are viable in the standard environment and which aren't. A Pokemon's viability in standard depends on its stats, movepool and/or typing:
-The OverUsed (OU) tier is the standard environment for competitive battling. Any Pokemon below that tier can also be used here, but some Pokemon are more viable than others.
-The UnderUsed (UU) tier is where the Pokemon that aren't used in OU often either because of their stats, typing and/or movepools.
-The RarelyUsed (RU) tier is where the Pokemon that are seldom seen in OU reside.
-The NeverUsed (NU) tier is the bottom of the barrel in competitive battling. The Pokemon there have bad stats, movepools and/or typings that hold them back from the standard environment.
-The Ubers tier is the "banlist" of OU. Pokemon that are deemed too good/overpowered for OU are sent here.

  #27    
Old August 17th, 2013, 07:38 AM
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need help building a competitive team and I know how to EV train it just I cant make a good team I would like help cuz I can't seen to get it right so if some one would help me I would really love it thank you pm me back if anyone can help me

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  #28    
Old August 17th, 2013, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShiningLust View Post
need help building a competitive team and I know how to EV train it just I cant make a good team I would like help cuz I can't seen to get it right so if some one would help me I would really love it thank you pm me back if anyone can help me
One of the basics of team building is synergy. At least some of the Pokemon on the team have to cover each other's weaknesses. Take Ferrothorn and Jellicent for example. Ferrothorn is weak to Fire and Fighting, while Jellicent is weak to Grass, Electric, Dark and Ghost. Ferrothorn resists Jellicent's weaknesses, while Jellicent resists Ferrothorn's weaknesses.

  #29    
Old August 17th, 2013, 07:57 AM
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ShiningLust
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ok that kinds helps me but I seen something on YouTube saying something about

Lead
Lead Support

Core#1
Core#2
Core#3

Revenge Killer

can u tell me how this works

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  #30    
Old August 17th, 2013, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShiningLust View Post
ok that kinds helps me but I seen something on YouTube saying something about

Lead
Lead Support

Core#1
Core#2
Core#3

Revenge Killer

can u tell me how this works
For starters, I'll tell you what the terms mean.

A lead (or lead support) typically gets the team's strategy going. For example, weather teams lead with Drizzle Politoed, Drought Ninetales, Tyranitar, Hippowdon or Abomasnow to get the needed weather up straight away. Another type of lead is the hazard lead, which gets up entry hazards at the start of the battle. These leads include Aerodactyl, Azelf, Scolipede and Accelgor; thanks to their high Speed, they get hazards up easily before having to take a hit.

A core is a set of Pokemon working together to accomplish a specific goal. Take the Jellicent/Ferrothorn core I mentioned earlier. They're a core because they resist each other's weaknesses. Another core is the VoltTurn core. This consists of a Pokemon knowing U-turn and another knowing Volt Switch; they use said moves repeatedly to gain momentum throughout the battle. However, a weakness to this core is that Ground Pokemon are immune to Volt Switch. An example of two Pokemon that utilize this strategy are Scizor (who knows U-turn) and Wash Rotom (who knows Volt Switch). It's highly recommended to use entry hazards with this strategy, as it forces switches. A lot.

A revenge killer is a Pokemon with high Speed, who comes in after a teammate is KOed, then KOs the opponent in return. Some Pokemo with average Speed carry the Choice Scarf to mitigate the Speed issue, like Wash Rotom. Some already fast Pokemon, like Latios, use Choice Scarf to guarantee that they can't be outsped. A revenge killer with no need of Choice Scarf is Dugtrio, who, thanks to its Arena Trap ability, prevents the target from leaving the battle, making it easy pickings.

  #31    
Old August 17th, 2013, 09:46 AM
ShiningLust's Avatar
ShiningLust
Gym Leader of Ground Oden
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlatinumDude View Post
For starters, I'll tell you what the terms mean.

A lead (or lead support) typically gets the team's strategy going. For example, weather teams lead with Drizzle Politoed, Drought Ninetales, Tyranitar, Hippowdon or Abomasnow to get the needed weather up straight away. Another type of lead is the hazard lead, which gets up entry hazards at the start of the battle. These leads include Aerodactyl, Azelf, Scolipede and Accelgor; thanks to their high Speed, they get hazards up easily before having to take a hit.

A core is a set of Pokemon working together to accomplish a specific goal. Take the Jellicent/Ferrothorn core I mentioned earlier. They're a core because they resist each other's weaknesses. Another core is the VoltTurn core. This consists of a Pokemon knowing U-turn and another knowing Volt Switch; they use said moves repeatedly to gain momentum throughout the battle. However, a weakness to this core is that Ground Pokemon are immune to Volt Switch. An example of two Pokemon that utilize this strategy are Scizor (who knows U-turn) and Wash Rotom (who knows Volt Switch). It's highly recommended to use entry hazards with this strategy, as it forces switches. A lot.

A revenge killer is a Pokemon with high Speed, who comes in after a teammate is KOed, then KOs the opponent in return. Some Pokemo with average Speed carry the Choice Scarf to mitigate the Speed issue, like Wash Rotom. Some already fast Pokemon, like Latios, use Choice Scarf to guarantee that they can't be outsped. A revenge killer with no need of Choice Scarf is Dugtrio, who, thanks to its Arena Trap ability, prevents the target from leaving the battle, making it easy pickings.

thanks soo much for actually explaning this to me and now i understand alot better thanks soo much

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  #32    
Old August 17th, 2013, 02:48 PM
sonoskay's Avatar
sonoskay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlatinumDude View Post
Ferrothorn is one of the best support Pokemon ever, with its good typing and support movepool. Skarmory comes in close:

Ferrothorn:
-Stealth Rock/Spikes
-Leech Seed/Stealth Rock
-Power Whip/Protect/Leech Seed
-Gyro Ball/Thunder Wave
Nature: Relaxed
EVs: 252 HP/48 Def/208 SDef
Item: Leftovers/Shed Shell

Skarmory:
-Spikes/Stealth Rock
-Whirlwind
-Roost
-Brave Bird/Taunt
Nature: Impish/Careful
EVs: 224 HP/252 Def/32 SDef or 224 HP/32 Def/252 SDef
Item: Leftoves/Shed Shell
Ability: Sturdy

Or
-Stealth Rock
-Spikes
-Brave Bird
-Taunt
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 Spe
Item: Custap Berry
Ability: Sturdy

Forretress and Donphan are able to use Rapid Spin to clear away entry hazards while also providing their own:

Forretress:
-Spikes/Stealth Rock
-Rapid Spin
-Gyro Ball/Hidden Power (Ice)
-Volt Switch
Nature: Relaxed/Bold
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SDef
Item: Leftovers/Shed Shell
Ability: Sturdy

Donphan:
-Stealth Rock
-Earthquake
-Rapid Spin
-Ice Shard
Nature: Impish
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 Spe
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy

Gliscor is able to take advantage of Poison Heal to act as a physical wall:
-Earthquake
-Substitute
-Toxic
-Protect/Roost/Taunt
Nature: Impish
EVs: 244 HP/40 Def/224 Spe
Item: Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal

Or
-Earthquake
-Taunt/Toxic
-Ice Fang/U-turn
-Protect/Roost
Nature: Impish
EVs: 244 HP/248 Def/16 Spe
Item: Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal

Or
-Substitute
-Baton Pass
-Earthquake
-Swords Dance/Agility/Taunt
Nature: Impish
EVs: 244 HP/40 Def/224 Spe
Item: Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal

Blissey is the best Special wall in OU. Heatran comes in close.

Blissey:
-Stealth Rock/Aromatherapy
-Seismic Toss/Flamethrower
-Softboiled
-Toxic
Nature: Calm
EVs: 4 HP/252 Def/252 SDef
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure

Or
-Wish
-Protect/Softboiled
-Seismic Toss/Flamethrower
-Toxic
Nature: Calm
EVs: 4 HP/252 Def/252 SDef
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure

Heatran:
-Lava Plume
-Protect
-Roar
-Stealth Rock/Will-o-Wisp/Toxic
Nature: Calm
EVs: 248 HP/252 SDef/8 Spe
Item: Leftovers

Sableye or Whimsicott can abuse their wide support movepools in conjunction with Prankster to support the team through very annoying means:
Sableye:
-Taunt
-Will-o-Wisp
-Recover
-Foul Play/Night Shade/Snarl
Nature: Calm
EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 SDef
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Prankster

Whimsicott:
-Encore
-Leech Seed
-U-turn/Substitute
-Stun Spore/Taunt
Nature: Impish/Bold
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SDef
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Prankster

There are more supporters but I'll stop here.



The point of the tier system is to see which Pokemon are viable in the standard environment and which aren't. A Pokemon's viability in standard depends on its stats, movepool and/or typing:
-The OverUsed (OU) tier is the standard environment for competitive battling. Any Pokemon below that tier can also be used here, but some Pokemon are more viable than others.
-The UnderUsed (UU) tier is where the Pokemon that aren't used in OU often either because of their stats, typing and/or movepools.
-The RarelyUsed (RU) tier is where the Pokemon that are seldom seen in OU reside.
-The NeverUsed (NU) tier is the bottom of the barrel in competitive battling. The Pokemon there have bad stats, movepools and/or typings that hold them back from the standard environment.
-The Ubers tier is the "banlist" of OU. Pokemon that are deemed too good/overpowered for OU are sent here.
Ill consider some of those Pokemon.

I already found a guide on how to EV train and have started while its a pain i can do it... But how do i manage IVs? After breeding a few Pokemon, then leveling them giving them as few EVs as possible every IV calculator i found seems... unreliable... and the only method i found to do it seems... insanely time consuming.

Ok so there are not any just UU tornies or anything? all you said i had managed to pick up but ive seen people say how they made an all RU team or what ever. and in the tier guide it sounded like NU pokemon might have thier own tornies sometimes..

While i know NU tier pokemon are not often used can a decent team be made from these Pokemon that can compete against OU Pokemon? After all my favorite pokemon are NU it seems... and if NU pokemon are truely vastly worse than OU then it seems to me there is no real reason to compete... I want to use my favorite pokemon.. not "the best" pokemon.
  #33    
Old August 17th, 2013, 03:10 PM
Griffinbane's Avatar
Griffinbane
I hate Smeargle.
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You CAN play with NU stuff in OU, it's just that the NU stuff tends to be overclassed, overpowered, not bulky enough, etc. to be effective in OU. The tiers were made in order to try to keep things as balanced as possible, that's why everything got sorted into tiers. If you can figure out a way to bring out the best of your favorites in OU, power to you. I've used stuff like Ampharos and Gardevoir in OU before. It really depends on your strategy and you utilizing the best of your Pokemon's stats and abilities.

As for IVs, if you're starting completely from scratch, you have to catch Pokemon until you find two parents with at least 1 IV at 31, and breed them together until you get offspring with at least 2 IVs at 31. Breed the offspring together until you get something with at least 3 IVs at 31, keep continuing until you get something like 4 IVs at 31 (if you're super lucky). Getting babies with at least 4 perfect IVs is very difficult, even if you're using perfect parents. Most people skip this step and trade for parents.
Terriermon and Lopmon

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  #34    
Old August 17th, 2013, 07:51 PM
AdrianD's Avatar
AdrianD
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Age: 27
Gender: Male
Nature: Serious
Can Someone examine what I am doing wrong. Its really frustrating that I cant even get in 5 turns before I lose.

http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/do...c2013-45693154

http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/do...c2013-45685706

http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/do...c2013-45686752

This is the current team

Cresselia @ Mental Herb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 160 SDef / 96 Def / 252 HP
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Trick Room
- Protect
- Psyshock
- Ice Beam

Scrafty @ Focus Sash
Trait: Moxie
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Fake Out
- Drain Punch
- Crunch
- Protect

Conkeldurr @ Flame Orb
Trait: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 44 Def / 212 HP
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
- Rock Slide
- Detect

Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Crunch
- Rock Slide
- Ice Punch
- Superpower

Amoonguss @ Sitrus Berry
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 172 SDef / 252 HP / 84 Def
Sassy Nature
- Rage Powder
- Protect
- Giga Drain
- Spore

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Trait: Iron Barbs
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Def / 4 Atk / 252 HP
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Leech Seed
- Power Whip
- Protect
- Gyro Ball
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  #35    
Old August 17th, 2013, 08:23 PM
Griffinbane's Avatar
Griffinbane
I hate Smeargle.
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Battle 1: You got unlucky with the double critical on Cresselia. As for Amoongus, I don't understand why you used Rage Powder instead of putting Breloom to sleep. Breloom was the dangerous one, Reuniclus can't do much to Scrafty, and Amoongus absorbs hits like a boss. Letting Breloom put you to sleep pretty much killed you.

Battle 2: Good battle, bad luck there. I just realized your team is badly fighting weak, especially against opposing Scrafty. That'll need to be fixed.

Battle 3: Same as battle 2.

One major thing: You don't seem to use Protect all that often. That might be a key factor. Overusing it will let your opponent predict your moves easily, underutilizing it will hurt you hard.
Terriermon and Lopmon

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X: 2208 5685 5454
- - - -
  #36    
Old August 17th, 2013, 08:25 PM
AdrianD's Avatar
AdrianD
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Age: 27
Gender: Male
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffinbane View Post
Battle 1: You got unlucky with the double critical on Cresselia. As for Amoongus, I don't understand why you used Rage Powder instead of putting Breloom to sleep. Breloom was the dangerous one, Reuniclus can't do much to Scrafty, and Amoongus absorbs hits like a boss. Letting Breloom put you to sleep pretty much killed you.

Battle 2: Good battle, bad luck there. I just realized your team is badly fighting weak, especially against opposing Scrafty. That'll need to be fixed.

Battle 3: Same as battle 2.
I didnt use Spore because it was much slower. There are no IVs or Evs invested in its speed

What do you recommend I do. Right now I am changing people again
X- 2406 5987 8799
PS3 - Mkeborn87

Last edited by AdrianD; August 17th, 2013 at 08:34 PM.
  #37    
Old August 17th, 2013, 08:48 PM
Griffinbane's Avatar
Griffinbane
I hate Smeargle.
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Join Date: Mar 2008
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Age: 26
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Well you've got it mixed up then. Amoongus is faster than Breloom in Trick Room. Don't forget that the attack order reverses in Trick Room. In turn 3, if you HAD used Spore, Breloom would either be forced to use Mach Punch (Scrafty would be dead but can't help this), then it goes Zzz. Then in turn 4, you could have used Spore AGAIN and put his other 'mon to sleep. Your opponent would be crippled at that point, hoping for a 1 turn sleep. If your opponent decided to switch, you could have Spored THAT, as well.
Terriermon and Lopmon

White: 1463 5558 5309
X: 2208 5685 5454
- - - -
  #38    
Old August 17th, 2013, 11:07 PM
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AmourPearlShipper
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Join Date: Jul 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffinbane View Post
In turn 3, if you HAD used Spore, Breloom would either be forced to use Mach Punch (Scrafty would be dead but can't help this), then it goes Zzz. Then in turn 4, you could have used Spore AGAIN and put his other 'mon to sleep. Your opponent would be crippled at that point, hoping for a 1 turn sleep. If your opponent decided to switch, you could have Spored THAT, as well.
Did you forget about the Sleep Clause? No more than one Pokemon can be put to sleep by your own moves.
Escavalier literally is 2HKOed by Stoutland Fire Fang, Metang was undoubtedly the much better choice.
SuperSkarmory | Serebii | Infernape in Ubers (peaked at #35!)
  #39    
Old August 17th, 2013, 11:35 PM
Outnumbered's Avatar
Outnumbered
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crobatrulez20 View Post
Did you forget about the Sleep Clause? No more than one Pokemon can be put to sleep by your own moves.
Not in VGC play. Sleep clause only goes for Smogon related things, which is mainly single battles.
  #40    
Old August 19th, 2013, 06:44 AM
Griffinbane's Avatar
Griffinbane
I hate Smeargle.
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Pennsylvania, US
Age: 26
Gender: Female
Nature: Lax
As Dyl said, there is no sleep clause in VGC. That's why Breloom and Amoongus are so flippin' common.
Terriermon and Lopmon

White: 1463 5558 5309
X: 2208 5685 5454
- - - -
  #41    
Old August 22nd, 2013, 04:53 PM
Alen02
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Gender: Male
I've been trying to use a Glaceon online and I just have a hard time competing with it.. I need some ideas because I want to use it in OU, but I just don't know how to.

Anyway here's a set I made that was very effective against Latios, Latias, and Garchomp.

Ice Body
Modest
252 SPA
252 Speed
4 SPD
Choice Scarft

Ice Beam
Shadow Ball
HP Fighting
Wish


I'm willing to make a new team just for it, but I don't want to use any legendaries or Ubers.
  #42    
Old August 22nd, 2013, 05:55 PM
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PlatinumDude
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alen02 View Post
I've been trying to use a Glaceon online and I just have a hard time competing with it.. I need some ideas because I want to use it in OU, but I just don't know how to.

Anyway here's a set I made that was very effective against Latios, Latias, and Garchomp.

Ice Body
Modest
252 SPA
252 Speed
4 SPD
Choice Scarft

Ice Beam
Shadow Ball
HP Fighting
Wish


I'm willing to make a new team just for it, but I don't want to use any legendaries or Ubers.
Your best bet for using Glaceon in OU is on a Hail team to give its Blizzard 100% accuracy, . Tbh, Glaceon, along with other pure Ice Pokemon, are terrible in OU due to their common weaknesses. But if you really want to use Glaceon in OU, change the nature to Timid; with Modest, Choice Scarf Glaceon is still outsped by non-Choice Scarf Pokemon with 108 Speed or higher, like Infernape and Starmie.

  #43    
Old August 22nd, 2013, 11:14 PM
AmourPearlShipper's Avatar
AmourPearlShipper
Caution: Drunken people crossing
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: In your trash can
Gender: Male
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alen02 View Post
I've been trying to use a Glaceon online and I just have a hard time competing with it.. I need some ideas because I want to use it in OU, but I just don't know how to.

Anyway here's a set I made that was very effective against Latios, Latias, and Garchomp.

Ice Body
Modest
252 SPA
252 Speed
4 SPD
Choice Scarft

Ice Beam
Shadow Ball
HP Fighting
Wish


I'm willing to make a new team just for it, but I don't want to use any legendaries or Ubers.
HP Ground > HP Fighting, and use a timid nature. And I guess the fact that you don't want to use legends is the reason you don't use Kyurem over Glaceon, because there really is no reason to use the ice fox over the dragon.
Escavalier literally is 2HKOed by Stoutland Fire Fang, Metang was undoubtedly the much better choice.
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  #44    
Old August 24th, 2013, 11:31 PM
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Is there a place where I can post Battle logs where people can point out flaws in my style, team, etc?
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  #45    
Old August 25th, 2013, 07:46 AM
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The same place you HAVE been posting them. Just keep them together in one thread.
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  #46    
Old August 30th, 2013, 09:26 PM
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I was battling a guy the other day who had a two Pokemon who both had Poison Heal, they were holding Toxic Orbs, so they could heal their health up. They also had substitute, and they would use Protect, so they would gain health after using substitute. I lost hopelessly, and couldn't find a counter against it, is there any sort of counter for that? Or would I just be boned?

Last edited by Khaotik; September 2nd, 2013 at 03:18 PM.
  #47    
Old August 30th, 2013, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khaotik View Post
I was battling a guy the other day who had a two Pokemon who both had Poison Heal, they were holding Toxic Orbs, so they could heal their health up. They also had substitute, and they would use Protect, so they would gain health after using substitute. I lost hopelessly, and couldn't find a counter against it, is there any sort of counter for that? Or would I just be boned?
I suppose you don't happen to have a pokemon that could phase (Roar, Whirlwind, etc?)? Substitute can only work an x number of times, and phasing sub users just about completely destroys their strategy. Using a fast taunt user (Whimsicott is very infamous for this, as an example. Other noteworthy examples are Sableye as well as Froslass) is also a way to shut down some Pokemon who are known to hide behind a sub, forcing them to be completely open to attacks.I hope this helps~!
  #48    
Old August 31st, 2013, 01:16 AM
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Opposite Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khaotik View Post
I was battling a guy the other day who had a two Pokemon who both had Poison Heal, they were holding Toxic Orbs, so they could heal their health up. They also had substitute, and they would use Protect, so they would gain health after using substitute. I lost hopelessly, and couldn't find a counter against it, is there any sort of counter for that? Or would I just be boned?
Derk already mentioned phasing, aka forcing them to switch by using Whirlwind or Roar + Taunting, but there are a couple of other options as well, including, but not limited to;
1) using multi-hit moves to break their subs and deal more damage to them (like Bullet Seed, Icicle Spear, Dual Chop etc)
2) using moves that make do damage and switch out, thus allowing you to break the substitute and get a faster attacker in (U-Turn and Volt Switch (not that useful against PH Gliscor but should be ok vs Breloom)
3) using a normal move to break their substitute, then do damage the following turn with an increased priority move (Ice Punch + Ice Shard, for instance)
4) predicting their protects and set up on it to make you have an advantage the following turn (say, using Agility Metagross w/ Ice Punch vs PH Gliscor, you've broken the sub, and the turn Gliscor protects to get back 12,5%, you Agility, making you faster and able to KO it the next turn) Pretty situational though.


... not to mention;
5) using moves that give them a different status condition before they get poisoned (although that is pretty difficult to do considering how they'd practically have to switch into the status move)

and if everything else fails:

6) flinch them to death with Jirachi

Taunt and Roar/WW are really good ways to deal with it too though.
  #49    
Old August 31st, 2013, 04:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opposite Day View Post
Derk already mentioned phasing, aka forcing them to switch by using Whirlwind or Roar + Taunting, but there are a couple of other options as well, including, but not limited to;
1) using multi-hit moves to break their subs and deal more damage to them (like Bullet Seed, Icicle Spear, Dual Chop etc)
2) using moves that make do damage and switch out, thus allowing you to break the substitute and get a faster attacker in (U-Turn and Volt Switch (not that useful against PH Gliscor but should be ok vs Breloom)
3) using a normal move to break their substitute, then do damage the following turn with an increased priority move (Ice Punch + Ice Shard, for instance)
4) predicting their protects and set up on it to make you have an advantage the following turn (say, using Agility Metagross w/ Ice Punch vs PH Gliscor, you've broken the sub, and the turn Gliscor protects to get back 12,5%, you Agility, making you faster and able to KO it the next turn) Pretty situational though.


... not to mention;
5) using moves that give them a different status condition before they get poisoned (although that is pretty difficult to do considering how they'd practically have to switch into the status move)

and if everything else fails:

6) flinch them to death with Jirachi

Taunt and Roar/WW are really good ways to deal with it too though.
To add, Perish Song can bypass Substitutes, giving the Substitute opponent a 3-turn timer: either they stay in and be KOed or switch out.

  #50    
Old August 31st, 2013, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khaotik View Post
I was battling a guy the other day who had a two Pokemon who both had Poison Heal, they were holding Toxic Orbs, so they could heal their health up. They also had substitute, and they would use Protect, so they would gain health after using substitute. I lost hopelessly, and couldn't find a counter against it, is there any sort of counter for that? Or would I just be boned?

1. Multi-hit moves
2. Taunt
3. Weavile with Ice Punch, as it is a guaranteed OHKO. Ice Shard can also help if you have a Choice Band.
4. Roar / Whirlwind
5. Magic Guard, as it makes you immune to Toxic.
Escavalier literally is 2HKOed by Stoutland Fire Fang, Metang was undoubtedly the much better choice.
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