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Metal & Color Generation Take a walk down memory lane with Red, Blue, and Yellow, the games that started it all! Then revisit the best region ever in the original Johto games, Gold, Silver, and Crystal.



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  #1    
Old November 11th, 2013 (06:05 PM).
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I'm mostly making this to point out how the Blue Raticate theory is false.While yes theirs holes in my own theories i will admit to that im saying this so yoy guys dont think i just hate on others.The main theory is uses many evidence to support it with Blues lines in the pokemon tower and how he no longer has raticate at this time.While convincing yes,the problem is that why did raticate die but none of the others?We can agree the pc is used by more than one person so Blue could of boxed raticate.Considering he already has a normal type with pidgey which is also half-flying so raticate would mean his team is really weak to fighting with Alakazam being their only attack against them.Blues lines in the pokemon tower might have been because he was their searching for a ghost type and was surprised to see you their,but because he didn't have the silph scope he couldn't catch one.We should also consider Blue was wanting to become champion and complete the pokedex before you so raticate was in his team just to complete the pokedex until he found a replacement.This is just why i think this theory is false,please don't hate on me because i think this.
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  #2    
Old November 23rd, 2013 (03:15 PM).
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Pidgey was pure flying back in gen 1.

RIP Gary's Raticate
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  #3    
Old November 27th, 2013 (09:07 AM).
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There's strong evidence that Green's Raticate is dead, though. He says something among the lines, once he meets you there: ''What are you doing here? Your pokémon aren't dead!''

However, we cannot tell for sure.
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  #4    
Old November 28th, 2013 (11:49 AM).
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A quick look on Bulbapedia is enough to disprove the last two posts.

Quote originally posted by Elitist Four:
Pidgey was pure flying back in gen 1.
Pidgey never changed types, it has always been Normal/Flying. The only pure Flying Pokémon introduced so far is Gen 5's Tornadus.

Quote originally posted by southpark32:
There's strong evidence that Green's Raticate is dead, though. He says something among the lines, once he meets you there: ''What are you doing here? Your pokémon aren't dead!''
I love how people keep bringing this quote up. There are three problems with it though:
  • There's no emphasis on "your" in the game.
  • The quote isn't exactly accurate.
  • The quote is taken out of context.

Bulbapedia has the exact quote:

Quote:
Source: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Blue_(game)
"Hey, <player>! What brings you here? Your Pokémon don't look dead! I can at least make them faint! Let's go, pal!"
He doesn't mean "Your Pokémon aren't dead, at least...", he means "Your Pokémon aren't/don't look dead, but I can fix that! Let's fight!".

As to what he was doing in the tower in the first place, again, Bulbapedia provides the exact quote from the game (said by Blue/Green after the fight) , which proves GeraldTheTheroiest's point about Blue being there for the wild Pokémon:

Quote:
Source: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Blue_(game)
"How's your Pokédex coming, pal? I just caught a Cubone! I can't find the grown-up Marowak yet! I doubt there are any left! Well I better get going! I've got a lot to accomplish, pal! Smell ya later!"
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  #5    
Old November 28th, 2013 (10:24 PM).
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If I rember correctly no dont quote me on this but seeing a Greens raticate was not on his team I think its very certane raticate was not only fainted but died.That was the last place it had ben seen by you the player and sense he was in the mansion with all the graves and toomstones it must have pearished it would only be logicle if you the player killed it in the S.S.Anne.Now Im not hating on you,Im just being real here when i say that theirs probibly more a higher per cent chance that it was you the player.I mean you never see it again so what else could it mean?Its simple when you think bout it realy.
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  #6    
Old November 28th, 2013 (11:34 PM).
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Again, here's my problem with this theory: people think that Blue's Raticate died based on an inaccurate quote, and the fact that he is in a place with graves without the Raticate on his team.

Now, let's see all the facts, things that do or don't happen in the actual game:
  • When you battle Blue on the SS Anne, and KO his Raticate, the game explicitly says it simply fainted, period. There is no special message indicating that something worse happened to it.
  • Blue doesn't address the state of his Raticate after the fight.
  • Blue never mentions his Raticate again. I think that if it was dead, Blue would have some resentment towards Red and would at least say something along the lines of "You killed my Pokémon, you jerk". But he never does.
  • When you meet Blue in the Pokémon Tower, he never says his Pokémon died, and doesn't insinuate it. He is not being mournful or sad, he is being his usual arrogant self. The only reference to death that he makes is that Red's Pokémon don't look dead, but he can at least make them faint (see exact quote from the game in my previous post).
  • After the fight he explicitly says that he is only in the tower to catch a Marowak if he can find one, having already caught a Cubone. Again, no sadness, just pure arrogance.
  • Bill's PC exists, and there's no reason why Red would have access to it, but not Blue.

Again, I must insist on the fact that Blue is not being mournful in the tower. The game never tells you that his Raticate died. There is nothing in the game to tell that Blue didn't simply stuff the Raticate into a box or release it.
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  #7    
Old November 29th, 2013 (06:11 AM).
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Quote originally posted by GeraldTheTheroiest:
I'm mostly making this to point out how the Blue Raticate theory is false.While yes theirs holes in my own theories i will admit to that im saying this so yoy guys dont think i just hate on others.The main theory is uses many evidence to support it with Blues lines in the pokemon tower and how he no longer has raticate at this time.While convincing yes,the problem is that why did raticate die but none of the others?We can agree the pc is used by more than one person so Blue could of boxed raticate.Considering he already has a normal type with pidgey which is also half-flying so raticate would mean his team is really weak to fighting with Alakazam being their only attack against them.Blues lines in the pokemon tower might have been because he was their searching for a ghost type and was surprised to see you their,but because he didn't have the silph scope he couldn't catch one.We should also consider Blue was wanting to become champion and complete the pokedex before you so raticate was in his team just to complete the pokedex until he found a replacement.This is just why i think this theory is false,please don't hate on me because i think this.

You haven't really disproven the theory. What you've presented is "could have", "maybe", and "might have". Speculation, in other words. Which is really all the theory itself is. So what you've presented isn't a refutation to the Blue's Raticate theory, but an alternative theory as to why his Raticate is no longer in his party.
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  #8    
Old December 1st, 2013 (10:53 AM).
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If the theory about the Raticate not being dead is the "alternative", I would love to hear the actual arguments in favor of the "main" theory, other that those I previously debunked.

GeraldTheTheroiest might have missed a point or two in his original post, and wasn't assertive enough, but he did bring up a couple of good arguments. I'll go even further and make a bold statement: the theory of Raticate being dead doesn't even need disproving, it has little to no ground to stand on in the first place. I already made two posts that support my claim, and would like someone to at least try to find precise counter-arguments.
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  #9    
Old December 1st, 2013 (11:44 AM).
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I think we've all heard the arguments in favor of the theory. The thing is though, you didn't really debunk any, just provided alternative hypotheses. The only valid counter-argument was the observation that Blue wasn't mournful or sad at the Pokemon Tower. But regarding the rest:

Quote:
When you battle Blue on the SS Anne, and KO his Raticate, the game explicitly says it simply fainted, period. There is no special message indicating that something worse happened to it.
Quote:
Blue doesn't address the state of his Raticate after the fight.
Quote:
Blue never mentions his Raticate again. I think that if it was dead, Blue would have some resentment towards Red and would at least say something along the lines of "You killed my Pokémon, you jerk". But he never does.
This only refutes the claim that the Raticate died during that battle, but that particular battle is not the only point at which a Pokemon can die.

Quote:
Bill's PC exists, and there's no reason why Red would have access to it, but not Blue.
Which proves that it's possible that Blue deposited it into the PC, not that it's impossible for it to have died.

So Blue's attitude and words at the Pokemon Tower is all we have left. Which is valid evidence against the theory, alone isn't enough to discredit it.
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  #10    
Old December 1st, 2013 (12:31 PM).
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Granted, but how does it compare to the evidence that the Raticate is dead, and not boxed or released? AFAIK, the game itself provides none.
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  #11    
Old December 1st, 2013 (12:42 PM).
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Yea, that was my point. That he deposited it and that it died are equally supported (and likewise unsupported) theories.
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  #12    
Old December 16th, 2013 (05:40 AM).
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this is like watching people argue over the existence of god, well theres this much proof for this, and this much proof for that, but no one actually knows, im right, no im right.. etc.

its more logical the pokemon is boxed. its a pretty wild theory that it died. if i found better pokemon i wouldnt keep a raticate in my team. there is really no indication that it died at all.
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  #13    
Old December 26th, 2013 (02:25 PM).
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Nintendo or Game Freak never said anything about the matter. I consider both hypotheses to be equally possible. However, it is much more common when a person studies their team and changes some pokémon. So, I think this has a better probability of being true. No one will reach a conclusion about this hypothesis.
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  #14    
Old January 10th, 2014 (01:05 PM).
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Guys... this is a theory. Do you guys really think the creators would make a Pokémon die without making any clear reference to it? I really like the theory, but some things just shouldn't be taken so serious.
I honestly don't want to stop this discussion or something, but I don't think it would be true - just because there is not evidence of it. It's a game, guys! Game Freak would have revealed it by now!
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  #15    
Old January 11th, 2014 (04:33 AM).
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i'm pretty sure there is this quote that breaks the entire theory -

POKEMON NEVER REALLY DIE.

I'm sure someone said it but I don't remember who...
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  #16    
Old January 12th, 2014 (08:50 PM).
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What I think happened is that there's no record in the PC within the game of Blue's Pokemon, and Blue only doesn't have a Raticate from a certain point on because the development team didn't feel like (or forgot) giving him one in any successive battles. From a programming standpoint, Blue uses completely different Pokemon in each battle, anyhow.
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  #17    
Old January 15th, 2014 (08:44 AM).
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I firmly believe in that 'theory', but you can go a lot of directions, because Blue doesn't say why he's in Lavender Tower to begin with, nor is there even a reference as to whether Raticate is dead. (What if he put Raticate in the box when he caught/evolved Magikarp/Gyarados.)

I said I do believe in the theory and I know why so, because the belief in a myth gives it power. And what IF Raticate died? I wouldn't imagine Blue just chilling in that place. (Actually, the fact that Blue may have wanted Gastly and Cubone in his pokedex makes a bit of sense.)


"Your Pokemon don't look dead, but I can at least make them faint."

Ignoring the 'theory' to begin with, that line really has no relation. He's putting full attention to your pokemons' conditions, bragging he has more military power within his team than you. (He'd find a way to blow off steam after Raticate's death even without Red passing the Tower, but how else can you get the PokeFlute?)

Mind over matter, people, it's whatever you consider to be true, of course.
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  #18    
Old January 16th, 2014 (10:52 AM).
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This is silly considering he had a Fearow in Pokémon Yellow which he got rid of eventually. Did that die too then?
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  #19    
Old January 18th, 2014 (03:55 PM).
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The only 'realistic' thing that I believe happened to the rival's Raticate is that he simply boxed it at a certain point, never to take it out again. On certain encounters with him, he will boast about how he has caught so many different Pokémon (as part of his goal to complete the PokéDex for his grandfather), so it's safe to say, taking what he says about his 'collection' and that he 'assembled a team that can beat any Pokémon type' for taking on the Elite 4 and sailing to the Championship, and what Saint Sophie said above me about the Fearow in Yellow, that he simply boxed Raticate for the rest of his journey.
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  #20    
Old January 18th, 2014 (05:37 PM).
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To be perfectly honest, I think the actual most realistic explanation is that the programmers just didn't program a Raticate into his party after the SS Anne encounter. I've always taken the theories on what actually happened to it to be a "just for fun" kinda thing, but if you're going to actually try to be realistic, nothing actually died and nothing was put into a box because there's no actual living creatures or boxes involved, just 0's and 1's
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  #21    
Old January 27th, 2014 (07:57 AM).
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Maybe my memory is faulty, but isn't this arguably one of the nicest things the rival says to you in R/B/Y?

I mean, he calls you 'pal' and everything. I think that if someone killed my pet/friend/pitfighter, then showed up near it's grave, I wouldn't be calling him pal.
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  #22    
Old January 29th, 2014 (05:35 AM).
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Yes Green Raticate is dead It's hard when a pokemon die !
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