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  #26    
Old November 20th, 2013, 02:38 PM
Kanzler
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Originally Posted by gimmepie View Post
I don't see anybody here invoking magic.

We all recognise that there is no special supernatural force pulling us together. But you don't seem to be able to differentiate between physical attraction and emotional connection. They are two distinct things that each have a place in what we call love.
Calling them distinct things is a heuristic that avoids the complexity of what love actually is. It's useful for convincing a girl you don't want to just get in her pants, for example. It's also useful for convincing yourself that you don't want to just get into someone's pants. But I don't think we can observe that distinction in real life without oversimplifying things.

It's one thing to identify the factors that make up your attraction and it's something else to categorize them as distinct. "Physical" attraction and "emotional" connection come to play into each other. I don't think anybody can reasonably say that a person's physical attractiveness isn't influenced by the way she talks or thinks or whatever. Also, the experience of attraction is very subjective. Is fashion physical or emotional? Is body language physical or emotional?

I've outlined some of the difficulty in extricating "physical" and "emotional" charm from each other. At the end of the day, it all goes to your brain where it is coordinated to form your response. Although we can look at attraction and say that something looks a bit more influenced by physical vs. emotion connection, it would be going to far to describe the two as distinct. I find they are far too interlinked to be pulled apart. It could be a clear and easy to understand theoretical model, but love is something that's done in the field.
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  #27    
Old November 20th, 2013, 02:41 PM
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  #28    
Old November 20th, 2013, 06:06 PM
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I just don't bother. I have no interest in anybody, and maybe never will. Maybe it is because I am different. One thing's for sure, I will automatically forget about the all interests towards him/her (not sure of orientation as of now, as I have no interests above friendship) if I am hurt or betrayed or used (in case you are doubting me, no I've done it to a friend who wasn't my friend that betrayed me before).
My friends are all like, "whochalikewhochalikewhochalike" and I'm like, "no one". They look at me and sigh. Well, if I pretended to love someone, and then they found out, I
They'll be hurt. No one has to go that way, poring their heart out and then being betrayed.
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  #29    
Old November 20th, 2013, 06:15 PM
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You don't have to be asexual to realize love and sex are separate things. But, to a sexualized person, they may be related on a certain level.

I seriously don't know how aromantic (not asexual) do it... It must be some sort of gene. Part of me wishes I had it because of how much I suffered for love... While another part wishes I'd never had it because I enjoyed to feel love towards another person.
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  #30    
Old November 21st, 2013, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Jeanne1571 View Post
I just don't bother. I have no interest in anybody, and maybe never will. Maybe it is because I am different. One thing's for sure, I will automatically forget about the all interests towards him/her (not sure of orientation as of now, as I have no interests above friendship) if I am hurt or betrayed or used (in case you are doubting me, no I've done it to a friend who wasn't my friend that betrayed me before).
My friends are all like, "whochalikewhochalikewhochalike" and I'm like, "no one". They look at me and sigh. Well, if I pretended to love someone, and then they found out, I
They'll be hurt. No one has to go that way, poring their heart out and then being betrayed.
Really not trying to be condescending here, but I think you've got a lot of years ahead of you before you can be able to decide that. You might not have dealt with those feelings yet and feel like an outcast because everyone around you already has, but don't let that bother you. Everyone is unique and goes through experiences in their own time.

I considered myself unable to feel anything for anyone for a long time. All the way back in junior high school kids were going crazy over their (5th) "love of their life" and I found myself wondering what the big deal was. "People are usually disappointing, not worth emotional investment, what's the point if they break up anyway etc. etc."

My point for saying this is that despite how my emotions worked, I came to realise this world is a big place and that my limited experiences did not mean I will never find anyone. Literally billions of people on earth, all with different viewpoints and ways to look at life...how can we shut it all down so readily, claiming there just won't be anyone for us?

Maybe you really won't ever feel anything, and that's fine too. But don't convince yourself of it because you're too afraid of being disappointed
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  #31    
Old November 21st, 2013, 03:54 PM
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see, i think the base of love is that u don't want someone to be out of your life.
cause i think hate is that u want them to never have been in your life.

and another thing about love... it seems like a powerful emotion. very powerful
now dat true love stuff, yes i believe in it BUT it's way, way, way, way, rare. like WAY rare.
but it does happen... though I've only seen it once :I well... twice... unless i also count my Grandparents... then 3 times.

but if i count family love, then I've seen a bunch :D since that's true love, from beginning to end.

in fact i think Asexual people are most likely to find true love, since they can't lust.
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  #32    
Old November 21st, 2013, 05:07 PM
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This may be my own cynicism, but I am not sure love exists in our modern culture. Perhaps those who love truly and deeply are just a minority nowadays, but it's been exceptionally hard for me to find anyone who is not self-absorbed, lustful, and ignorant. I dated a 24-year-old male for one year, but he recently dumped me because he had grown "bored" with our relationship; I had initially picked an older man because I was hoping for a higher level of maturity. I was wrong. I am 19 and dating someone my age, but he's also very immature. Don't get me wrong, he's very loving, passionate and happy—but I can't help but be wary of our relationship. I trust no one.
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  #33    
Old November 21st, 2013, 05:17 PM
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This may be my own cynicism, but I am not sure love exists in our modern culture. Perhaps those who love truly and deeply are just a minority nowadays, but it's been exceptionally hard for me to find anyone who is not self-absorbed, lustful, and ignorant. I dated a 24-year-old male for one year, but he recently dumped me because he had grown "bored" with our relationship; I had initially picked an older man because I was hoping for a higher level of maturity. I was wrong. I am 19 and dating someone my age, but he's also very immature. Don't get me wrong, he's very loving, passionate and happy—but I can't help but be wary of our relationship. I trust no one.
You have to learn to trust. Perhaps it is your lack of trust in others that created the barrier in your previous relationship. We have to accept that to love someone is to also risk getting hurt. We can't avoid this for this same risk occurs in any kind of relationship. If we can't accept that risk, if we can't allow our shields to be lowered, even a little, then we are doomed to failure in all our relationships.
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  #34    
Old November 21st, 2013, 05:25 PM
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You have to learn to trust. Perhaps it is your lack of trust in others that created the barrier in your previous relationship. We have to accept that to love someone is to also risk getting hurt. We can't avoid this for this same risk occurs in any kind of relationship. If we can't accept that risk, if we can't allow our shields to be lowered, even a little, then we are doomed to failure in all our relationships.
It doesn't help that I'm not very attractive and somewhat overweight, either. I'm sure that was one of the main reasons he got tired of me; he could pick any girl out of a crowd and she'd most likely be prettier than me.

I trusted too much. I gave him all of my love and attention and listened to him when he complained constantly about his job, his family, and everything else in his life. Now I trust but verify, I suppose.
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  #35    
Old November 21st, 2013, 05:32 PM
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It doesn't help that I'm not very attractive and somewhat overweight, either. I'm sure that was one of the main reasons he got tired of me; he could pick any girl out of a crowd and she'd most likely be prettier than me.

I trusted too much. I gave him all of my love and attention and listened to him when he complained constantly about his job, his family, and everything else in his life. Now I trust but verify, I suppose.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. There is a whole lot more to the beauty of a person than their outward appearance. But one thing I am certain of, if someone we are interested in picks up on our own insecurities, they become wary of us. We have to love ourselves first for someone to love us. If we can't love ourselves, how do we expect others to? That you started your response with the words "I'm not very attractive" speaks volumes to me and to everyone else around you. I would first recommend that you work to learn to love you for who you are. Perfection is an ideal that will never be attained by any of us. Get to the point where you can look in the mirror and say "I like this person" and you'll be amazed at how quickly people recognize the change in you.
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  #36    
Old November 21st, 2013, 05:36 PM
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Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. There is a whole lot more to the beauty of a person than their outward appearance. But one thing I am certain of, if someone we are interested in picks up on our own insecurities, they become wary of us. We have to love ourselves first for someone to love us. If we can't love ourselves, how do we expect others to? That you started your response with the words "I'm not very attractive" speaks volumes to me and to everyone else around you. I would first recommend that you work to learn to love you for who you are. Perfection is an ideal that will never be attained by any of us. Get to the point where you can look in the mirror and say "I like this person" and you'll be amazed at how quickly people recognize the change in you.
I'm simply stating a fact. It's not an insecurity, it's just something that cannot be argued by normal people. I have never received a compliment about my beauty, never had guys flirt with me, was never asked out. I had to pursue the two boyfriends I've had in my lifetime. THAT speaks volumes.
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Old November 21st, 2013, 05:45 PM
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I'm simply stating a fact. It's not an insecurity, it's just something that cannot be argued by normal people. I have never received a compliment about my beauty, never had guys flirt with me, was never asked out. I had to pursue the two boyfriends I've had in my lifetime. THAT speaks volumes.
I've yet to find a person on this planet who could even remotely be called normal. Certainly I'm not, and I know my boyfriend would argue that he's not, nor the hundreds of people he's talked to on the phone at the call-center he works at. We're all of us unique. And speaking from experience, I'd think being the chaser rather than the chasie is so much better. They say good things come to those who wait, but I call BS on that. Good things come to those who go out and grab it.
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  #38    
Old November 21st, 2013, 06:01 PM
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I've yet to find a person on this planet who could even remotely be called normal. Certainly I'm not, and I know my boyfriend would argue that he's not, nor the hundreds of people he's talked to on the phone at the call-center he works at. We're all of us unique. And speaking from experience, I'd think being the chaser rather than the chasie is so much better. They say good things come to those who wait, but I call BS on that. Good things come to those who go out and grab it.
Being unattractive and being abnormal are two different things. I would also argue that as a woman, I feel useless and worthless having to trail after a man. Most girls have at least one or two guys trailing after THEM, not the other way around. It's de-feminizing. Men show no interest in me because I have nothing on face value to attract them, so I have to make an extreme effort to incite their interest.
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Old November 21st, 2013, 06:07 PM
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Jay it's like you're reading my mind man, have you got telepathy or something?

Silais, attractiveness is relative and largely about how you perceive and carry yourself. The fact that so far, in your 19 years (which is a short amount of time believe me) you have never been "pursued" or given a compliment is the definition of anecdotal. Beauty in media might have constants, but beauty as we define it is always up to personal taste and varies largely from person to person.

For example, I think Megan Fox is ridiculously plain, borderline unattractive. People call me crazy because I don't follow the norm which is to consider her drop-dead gorgeous, but the reality is I'm just honest and not following a trend. I have different tastes. This is the case with everyone ever.

There's always going to be someone you like who your friends might not think is attractive and vice versa. Likewise, you yourself have no confidence (I know you say it's just a "fact" but it really is just your perception) but someone else might find you the prettiest girl in the world to them.

You need to be happy with who you are. The weight thing, by the way, is entirely in your hands unless you have a thyroid problem or something of that nature. It is something that can be changed, and thus you cannot include it in the statement that you are "not attractive" as if you have no control over it. Appreciate what you have and how much better you have it than others, and I promise you'll be able to find what you're looking for.

P.S. Men like being pursued believe it or not (girls and their signals, haha...). Don't get pigeonholed into some sort of gender role expectation! The people who wouldn't appreciate it are probably too close-minded to want to be with anyway.
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Old November 21st, 2013, 06:07 PM
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Being unattractive and being abnormal are two different things. I would also argue that as a woman, I feel useless and worthless having to trail after a man. Most girls have at least one or two guys trailing after THEM, not the other way around. It's de-feminizing. Men show no interest in me because I have nothing on face value to attract them, so I have to make an extreme effort to incite their interest.
I can't speak about what it's like to be a woman. However, as a slightly effeminate gay man, had I not sought out love I very well may not have met my boyfriend of 4 years (5 as of this coming February). I don't regret for an instant being the chaser, but I probably would have regretted it had I been the one wanting to be chased. There's something to be said about going after what you want. It's not a masculine thing or a feminine thing... it's a human thing.


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Jay it's like you're reading my mind man, have you got telepathy or something?
Nah, I just write stories about telepaths.
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  #41    
Old November 21st, 2013, 06:23 PM
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I can't speak about what it's like to be a woman. However, as a slightly effeminate gay man, had I not sought out love I very well may not have met my boyfriend of 4 years (5 as of this coming February). I don't regret for an instant being the chaser, but I probably would have regretted it had I been the one wanting to be chased. There's something to be said about going after what you want. It's not a masculine thing or a feminine thing... it's a human thing.
It's embarrassing to be a woman and be forced to seek out love instead of have it seek you out. Maybe I was raised differently, but it makes me feel like less of a woman when no one takes any interest in me whatsoever.

Quote:
Silais, attractiveness is relative and largely about how you perceive and carry yourself. The fact that so far, in your 19 years (which is a short amount of time believe me) you have never been "pursued" or given a compliment is the definition of anecdotal. Beauty in media might have constants, but beauty as we define it is always up to personal taste and varies largely from person to person.

For example, I think Megan Fox is ridiculously plain, borderline unattractive. People call me crazy because I don't follow the norm which is to consider her drop-dead gorgeous, but the reality is I'm just honest and not following a trend. I have different tastes. This is the case with everyone ever.

There's always going to be someone you like who your friends might not think is attractive and vice versa. Likewise, you yourself have no confidence (I know you say it's just a "fact" but it really is just your perception) but someone else might find you the prettiest girl in the world to them.

You need to be happy with who you are. The weight thing, by the way, is entirely in your hands unless you have a thyroid problem or something of that nature. It is something that can be changed, and thus you cannot include it in the statement that you are "not attractive" as if you have no control over it. Appreciate what you have and how much better you have it than others, and I promise you'll be able to find what you're looking for.
I've been trying to lose weight for 12 years. I am 19 years old. I have been to the doctor several times, but I've never received any sort of help for my weight other than "you should just be less stressed out" or "you must be having trouble with your friends". Nothing of value or substance.

There's really not much I have to appreciate. The only positives about me physically would be my hair length and my eye color, to be honest. If someone thinks of me as pretty, why would they not show interest? In college, it seems like everyone has some form of courage and self-absorption and if they really thought a girl was attractive, they'd say so. I can't remember the last time I received a compliment about my appearance at all.
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Old November 21st, 2013, 06:57 PM
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I've been trying to lose weight for 12 years. I am 19 years old. I have been to the doctor several times, but I've never received any sort of help for my weight other than "you should just be less stressed out" or "you must be having trouble with your friends". Nothing of value or substance.

There's really not much I have to appreciate. The only positives about me physically would be my hair length and my eye color, to be honest. If someone thinks of me as pretty, why would they not show interest? In college, it seems like everyone has some form of courage and self-absorption and if they really thought a girl was attractive, they'd say so. I can't remember the last time I received a compliment about my appearance at all.
I hope some tough love won't offend you, I mean this all of this in the best possible way.

This mentality right here -- "There's not really much I have to appreciate" -- is a big reason for why a person wouldn't want to approach you. We are wired to appreciate and admire confidence, it is attractive and appeals to our nature. Moreover, it catches your attention: we are more apt to notice a person who walks like they're the hottest thing on earth rather than someone who sits meekly in the background wondering why no one ever talks to them. I have seen this work on people who do not fit into any socially agreed upon "standard" of attractiveness and they manage to turn heads all the time. The results may not have always been positive, but they at least are getting results.

On the other hand, an air of discontentment and an attitude of self-pity are considered largely undesirable traits. People spend a lot of time trying to get over their own insecurities, they don't want to have to take care of someone else's. Not being happy with how you look or your situation will show on your face, posture, movements, etc...and you are more likely to be passed over rather than chatted up.

This is all coming from a guy who until a few years ago had severe self-image issues and loads of insecurities about basically every aspect of his appearance and personality. That version of me wouldn't even be able to type or post on forums like this without triple/quadruple-guessing my words and how badly people would think of me for typing them. A lot has changed since then since I accept that hey, this is the hand I've been dealt. It might not be the most awesome hand in the world, but I'll be damned if I don't play it the best way I can. What came with this was realising that I actually wasn't a troll in man form and that girls actually could find me attractive. That people did not scrutinise every single word I said and some people might actually agree with me and like my mentality. It was all about deliverance and self-acceptance.

This is going to sound like some kind of Lifetime movie line, but a mentality shift will literally change your life. I promise you that. Be happy with who you are, and remember that unless you're into polyamorous relationships or something (haha), you only need one person to think you're pretty -- you're telling me at 19 that's just never gonna happen?

Come on

P.S. I dunno if you have already since you didn't mention it, but have you attempted any sort of physical activity/eating habit changes? Stress is something but I find that more often than not it's usually the food we eat under stress rather than the stress itself that has a negative impact on us (when I'm mad I like comfort food, for example, takes a lot of willpower to resist that :p)
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Old November 21st, 2013, 08:41 PM
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A lot has changed since then since I accept that hey, this is the hand I've been dealt. It might not be the most awesome hand in the world, but I'll be damned if I don't play it the best way I can. What came with this was realising that I actually wasn't a troll in man form and that girls actually could find me attractive. That people did not scrutinise every single word I said and some people might actually agree with me and like my mentality. It was all about deliverance and self-acceptance.
This, so much. You're probably not the super freaking awesome-sauce person you wished you were. When you cease to see your "limitations" as things holding you back but as the way things are, you will be literally liberated. At least that's what happened to mr oxymoron and me here.

Quote:
There's really not much I have to appreciate. The only positives about me physically would be my hair length and my eye color, to be honest. If someone thinks of me as pretty, why would they not show interest? In college, it seems like everyone has some form of courage and self-absorption and if they really thought a girl was attractive, they'd say so. I can't remember the last time I received a compliment about my appearance at all.
Haha. When was the last time I gave a stranger a compliment about her appearance? Ah well, guys like us don't count eh? You describe yourself as "somewhat overweight" and that's not very overweight. Also, you're dating someone. Nuff sed.

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I'm simply stating a fact. It's not an insecurity, it's just something that cannot be argued by normal people. I have never received a compliment about my beauty, never had guys flirt with me, was never asked out. I had to pursue the two boyfriends I've had in my lifetime. THAT speaks volumes.
It's the attitude that counts. My ex-girlfriend was objectively in your position. She would never, and I can't even imagine her, talk about herself - and society - like that. Whether you like it or not, love is 99% of that which is unobservable or unmeasurable - and of course we can all beg to differ as to just what we can't observe or measure.
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Old November 23rd, 2013, 01:03 PM
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This mentality right here -- "There's not really much I have to appreciate" -- is a big reason for why a person wouldn't want to approach you.
This, right here. It's been proven that confidence is the thing humans are attracted to the most. It's all about the alpha mentality - those with more confidence will be better parents/partners/leaders/etc.
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Old November 23rd, 2013, 09:22 PM
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What is true love? I think you're mixing true love with other things, OP.

I don't disagree with others when they say love is an emotion or love is brain activity, etc. But it is far more than that. Love is a continuous action (and that is the main thing -- love, as an action) through the expression of patience, kindness, compassion, not being envious...It is not prideful -- it puts others before and even above yourself (sound familiar?); it is selfless. True love is forgiving of those who wronged you and loving the unlovable. It is ultimately a commitment to someone through your selfless actions and not expecting anything back. It is loyalty. It involves self control. It is the realization that neither you nor anyone else in this world deserve anything, anyone in this world and yet you give generously, care always. True love is sacrificing yourself to others to the point of death. (Note: I ain't encouraging you to commit suicide, don't go there )

If love hurts then it is either tough love like discipline or it is not love at all. If the love you are speaking of hurts in a way that you know is not because someone cares for you and wishes to see you grow, then it usually involves at least one of the opposite words that I described, like impatience, selfishness (which lust usually fall under the category of), arrogance, etc. That is not love at all.

Romantic and emotional love are based on feelings. Those will waver because its foundation is laid upon shaky grounds -- your feelings. Because your feelings and your emotions will always fluctuate. Having a good day? "I love you." Having a bad day? "I hate you."

True love is more..what's the word...your will. Your volition. And let me repeat, your action. You love because it is the right thing to do. That is true love. And that love is worth it.

One more thing, your emotions and feelings should not be the reason you love but the result of your love.

Don't give up on true love yet when you've possibly been following a false view of love this whole time.

/endmyphilosophyoflove
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Last edited by Artistic.calm; November 24th, 2013 at 05:34 PM.
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