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Episode Discussion Keeping up with the upcoming and currently airing Japanese and English episodes? This is where you can discuss each of the episodes respectively.


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  #1    
Old May 8th, 2013, 09:12 PM
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DP Discussion Thread


It's been a while since we watched Ash journey through Sinnoh with Dawn and Brock, but it was a much-loved saga and it's a shame we haven't had a thread to discuss it yet. So here we are! This thread will cover four seasons of Pokémon- Diamond and Pearl, Battle Dimension, Galactic Battles, and Sinnoh League Victors. That includes the correspoding movies- The Rise of Darkrai, Giratina and the Sky Warrior, Arceus and the Jewel of Life, and Zoroark: Master of Illusions.

So go ahead and discuss! Relive your favourite moments, talk about little things you noticed, wonder about whatever crosses your mind. Just keep some things in mind- follow the PC-wide rules. Follow the PA rules. Keep on the topic of DP episodes. Remember that debate is okay, flaming is not. And that this thread is exempt from the 30-day revival rule, so don't hesitate to bring it back for whatever comments you may have!

Links


- Pokémon Anime Rules
- Original Series Discussion
- Advanced & Battle Frontier Discussion
- Best Wishes Discussion
- Black & White/Best Wishes Episode Index
- Pokémon the Anime XY Episode Index

To start us off, I have a confession and a question. The confession: I have not watched more than three DP episodes. I've seen the one where Ash dresses as a maid omg don't judge me and the Zoroark movie and maybe one or two others. So the question to all of you who have enjoyed DP is- which episodes are amazing? Which arcs are epic? What episodes would you deem to be good stand-alone episodes? And, of course, why?
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  #2    
Old May 8th, 2013, 10:32 PM
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Well if it's started finally I better go straight to the Battle Between Ash and Paul : The mixture of whole DP series.
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  #3    
Old May 9th, 2013, 12:17 AM
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I only started watching DP until recently so I'm not caught up with it either. I started with the first season but have also seen random episodes of Battle Dimension and Galactic Battles. I've seen two of the movie; The Rise of Darkrai and Arceus and The Jewel of Life. I need to watch Giratina and the Sky Warrior to finish the trilogy of the DP movies. ( The Rise of Darkrai, Giratina and the Sky Warrior, and Arceus and The Jewel of Life are part of a trilogy that are related to another.) So far though, it's slowly becoming my favorite saga of the anime.

One episode I really liked so far is Like It or Lup It!. It focuses on Dawn trying to get Piplup to learn Contest Moves and I found the plot to be pretty well-written and somehow heartwarming to me.
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  #4    
Old May 9th, 2013, 08:07 AM
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I will never forget those moments with Chimchar and it's evolutions. This made Chimchar my favorite Sinnoh starter and one of favorite starters overall.
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Old May 9th, 2013, 10:31 PM
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I also miss those ability unlocking in the battles in Unova. The scene of Ash's Infernape's Blaze ability against Paul's Electivire was awesome.
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Old May 9th, 2013, 11:15 PM
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Yeah, the scenes where Ash's Infernape activated Blaze were among my fave scenes of the Diamond & Pearl series. It definitely stands up there as one of my fave sagas ever because of how epic the battles were. Even though it's getting rerun a lot in Australia recently, I still love catching up on the old episodes so I can relive those moments.
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  #7    
Old May 10th, 2013, 01:12 AM
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Hm...It's been a while since I've watched D/P, as I've been trying to catch up with B/W, but here goes.
Like most have said, Chimchar/Monferno/Infernape's moments in the D&P series were good. How Ash tried to calm it down, and how he took a lot of hits, just to see his little Chimchar be alright..it proves that Ash does care.

Paul was a good rival too. He wasn't like that bigmouth Gary, or like the rushy Barry. He was just there. Usually quiet, observant and strong, training his Pokemon to their limits. His team is among one of the best in my opinion, too. I also like how throughout the duration of the D/P saga, Paul quietly grew to be a bit more light hearted. He became nicer as the season went on.
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  #8    
Old May 10th, 2013, 03:43 PM
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this thread is getting a subscribe because this is my favorite saga, and i have watched all of the DP episodes and movies as well.
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Old May 19th, 2013, 11:58 PM
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Speaking of which I think I should watch the DP saga full this time from the start as I just watched the Sinnoh League battles previously
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  #10    
Old February 1st, 2014, 12:56 AM
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Infernape seems to be a popular topic in this thread, so here's something:

For those who watched the ending of the first season of DP, you'd know that Paul poorly treated his Chimchar. For those of you who haven't watched the first season of DP, here's a quick bio:

Spoiler:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulbapedia
Infernape was once a Chimchar owned by Paul. Prior to events of the Diamond and Pearl series, Paul saw Chimchar being chased by a group of wild Zangoose. The situation looked bad for Chimchar, but in its stress it pulled off an extremely powerful Flame Wheel. This impressed Paul enough to add Chimchar to his regular team. However, this first impression did not match up to Chimchar's normal abilities, resulting in Paul criticizing it for being weak. Traumatized, Chimchar gained a morbid fear of all Zangoose.

...

After losing to Cynthia's Garchomp in Top-Down Training, Paul realized that Chimchar was not fulfilling his expectations. This culminated in the Hearthome City Tag Battle Competition, where he was forced to battle alongside Ash. That night, Ash discovered Paul's training regime, which involved his Pokémon attacking Chimchar in the hopes of recreating the power he had seen before. Ash intervened and took Chimchar to the Pokémon Center where Nurse Joy told Paul it would be unable to battle. Paul ignored this warning.

During the next battle against a Zangoose and a Metagross, Chimchar was too scared to make any attack when caught in Zangoose's claws, and had to be saved by Turtwig, who was seriously injured as a result. Chimchar made up for this by protecting Turtwig from a Fire Blast attack. Furious at Chimchar, Paul refused to give any orders. Consequently, Ash gave Chimchar commands for the remainder of the battle. After the battle, Paul released Chimchar in front of Ash. As the little Pokémon headed back to the wild, Ash invited it to join him, to which it accepted. Paul rudely commented that the two were perfect for each other: both were worthless scum.

If you're more interested, these are the tag battle arc episodes where most of the drama occurs:

Tag! We’re It…!
Glory Blaze
Smells Like Team Spirit!

Would you consider Paul an abusive Trainer towards his Chimchar? Do you agree with his methods?

I understand that Paul was trying to bring out the best in his Chimchar but attacking with all of your Pokémon while it's severely weakened isn't a good way to do it. Chimchar activated its Blaze ability when Paul first met it, so Paul probably assumed that Chimchar could activate it with ease. What Paul didn't know was that he never gave Chimchar any of his own gratitude and always left Chimchar feeling ashamed, which caused the failure of Blaze.
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  #11    
Old February 21st, 2014, 12:05 PM
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I decided out of the blue about three weeks ago to try and watch the entirety of the Diamond & Pearl anime, since it was the best one I'd seen the least of. I'd watched the entire original series, suffered through most of Hoenn, and then pretty much stopped after. Since I've heard nothing but great things about how well done DP is, I opted to watch it.

So I'm through DP059, Luxray Vision, and I have to say after the 59 episodes I've seen (counting The Rise of Darkrai instead of the clip show), I'm really enjoying it more than expected. I like Dawn far more than I anticipated - she seems like a real person. She knows her goals, has a bit of an attitude, and acts like a believable preteen girl. Even though she should be a bit older... I honestly don't get the anime's obsession with 10-year-olds.

Team Rocket sucks this gen. They do the same things every episode - STILL - and act like hypocritical *****es all the time for no apparent reason. Um, hello, you're bad guys! You're stealing Pokemon! Act like bad guys instead of getting annoyed that the twerps are trying to take back their FRIENDS. It's getting annoying, honestly. Although they do get occasional character development, which is nice. I'd like more of that and less of Jessie being a control freak and James being a wuss. I at least like that Best Wishes made it so they're not in every episode, despite that arc being rather lackluster overall. They didn't do enough with it. Hence why I'm watching DP.

My favorite moments so far have been related to Team Rocket's motto mostly. Early on when Paul had Chimchar use Ember mid-motto and Jessie said "Ember" and *dramatic pause* *freak out* lolz. When Jessie fell asleep as she was reciting it (thanks to Yawn from Hippopotas) and James did her lines while puppeting her. When the twerps recited the motto after trapping Team Rocket in a pitfall of their own ("Hey listen, is that bad guy talk I hear?) XD. There were also some almost amazing moments ruined by Team Rocket, like Ash offering Chimchar to join him but Chimchar getting abducted. That almost was emotional. But it was ruined.

There's also Pokemon Hunter J, who always produces amazing episodes. I know she dies later on - it's amazing how Pokemon of all things actually killed a major character like that. And none of the main cast knew about it... except Gary Oak, if you count him. I'm curious to see what other things like that they did before the major disaster happened early during B/W's run. Tragic events... I do hope Japan has recovered from it, and it's not because I'm mad about it making B/W suck. I don't want to sound like a jerk.

Back on subject, the voice acting is better than I anticipated. I am watching the dub, yes. Although some of the Japanese seiyuu are far better at emoting than their American counterparts, I prefer to understand what they're saying than read it as they talk fast in a language I barely know. It's personal preference. It's not like a visual novel which I can read and comprehend at my own pace.

Overall, I am glad I started this. I know it gets better and better as it goes. I'll keep updating this on my thoughts if people care. Feel free to talk about anything DP really - I know vague details of what happens xD
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Old February 21st, 2014, 11:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LividZephyr View Post
So I'm through DP059, Luxray Vision, and I have to say after the 59 episodes I've seen (counting The Rise of Darkrai instead of the clip show), I'm really enjoying it more than expected. I like Dawn far more than I anticipated - she seems like a real person. She knows her goals, has a bit of an attitude, and acts like a believable preteen girl. Even though she should be a bit older... I honestly don't get the anime's obsession with 10-year-olds.
Dawn is definitely a really good companion. She kind of has that attitude that floats with all of the female companions but it's not her fault. The reason why I like her so much is because
(Contains plot info during mid Battle Dimension)
Spoiler:
she actually has to work hard to become a good coordinator, not quite like May (whose skills seemed to come naturally). After losing a few contests in a row (even losing from the first round) and taking time to train and recuperate, I really enjoy watching her current contests knowing that she actually deserves the ribbons. It shows, during the Wallace Cup, how her training allowed her to defeat May.


Quote:
Team Rocket sucks this gen. They do the same things every episode - STILL - and act like hypocritical *****es all the time for no apparent reason. Um, hello, you're bad guys! You're stealing Pokemon! Act like bad guys instead of getting annoyed that the twerps are trying to take back their FRIENDS. It's getting annoying, honestly. Although they do get occasional character development, which is nice. I'd like more of that and less of Jessie being a control freak and James being a wuss. I at least like that Best Wishes made it so they're not in every episode, despite that arc being rather lackluster overall. They didn't do enough with it. Hence why I'm watching DP.
They eventually reduce their antics and kind of keep to themselves. There have many episodes during Battle Dimension when they sit on the sidelines while spying on Ash without executing thievery. I like that they become less annoying and that they are less intrusive. However they are back to their old ways whenever Team Galactic appears, which, like you mentioned, ruins potentially great and serious scenes.
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Old February 23rd, 2014, 08:51 PM
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Been making slow progress and
Spoiler:
have seen Dawn's loss of confidence and her attempts to regain it. I like how she started off - she knew what she wanted to do, and how to do it, but getting in sync with her Pokemon was a difficult thing to grasp mentally. She's already showing much more growth than May did.


I did not like May as a companion much. She was boring and had no purpose until contests came along. She lost her first one and won every one after that. The whole Hoenn arc was pointless to watch because you started realizing that Ash and May were going to win by whatever Deus Ex Machina the writers could think up, Golden Armour being the worst of them and causing me to have the epiphany that Hoenn wasn't going to improve so I stopped watching. Mix that with the existence of Max, repetitive fillerific episodes, and major spoilers in openings that tell you everything that's going to happen in a season and you have what's hands-down a complete waste of an arc. At least Hoenn had great music, but after that there aren't many good things about it. I heard Battle Frontier was an improvement, though.

DP so far is way better than Hoenn. Ash has a RIVAL, and you want to see him beat the guy. Characters reappear, there are a lot of ongoing storylines, and some of the happenings are amazing, too. Although I hate the thirty-second episode summaries that happen BEFORE the episode... started skipping them, but thankfully they're done now. I just finished DP065 "Sleight of Sand" which, according to Bulbapedia, is the last episode to have that garbage. Whew.

That episode was awesome too. Hilarious stuff. Progress may be slow over the next month or so, but I will watch what I can.
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  #14    
Old February 24th, 2014, 06:50 AM
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Without spoiling anything I think it’s safe to say that if you’ve been enjoying Diamond & Pearl so far you’re really going to love what comes later. As good as it is at that point, DP really starts doing some cool things later on that far and away surpass what any of the other Pocket Monsters shows have done. There’s actual character development for Satoshi and Hikari, something we haven’t really seen for the former since the OS days. In fact (don’t read the tag if you don’t want spoilers)...

Spoiler:
... in the next few episodes, #66-68, DP gives even more focus on Hikari’s character development when Satoshi and co. run into Sumomo. She’s taking a sabbatical from the Gym after losing disastrously to Shinji and her confidence is broken, which has made her Lucario angry. Hikari relates her own problems to Sumomo, and even has a Gym battle with her. Meanwhile Satoshi meets Shinji’s older brother, Reiji. All of it culminates in a fantastic Satoshi-Sumomo Gym battle, and I would really advise paying attention to the Reiji scenes. A plot point is introduced there that comes back to influence the Satoshi and Shinji rivalry in a big way later on. I think it’s too bad you don’t seem to be a fan of Haruka, though, because that character comes back to play a significant role in the resolution of this phase of Hikari’s journey.

Also, right after these episodes are finished, Team Galactic finally appears in person in #69. And believe me, for everything that Advanced Generation did wrong with Team Aqua and Team Magma, they do right with these guys.


A lot of the Gym and Contest battles are excellently-done (e.g. Satoshi vs. Melissa), there are episodes were you see Satoshi and Hikari actually training their Pokemon and as a result the constant dues ex machina we saw in AG more or less disappears, the rivals (Shinji, Jun, Urara, Kouhei - even if the last one isn’t really a “rival” in a traditional sense, he's one of the best side characters I've seen in the show) are great, and even some of the Pokemon develop. Hikozaru in particular is a highlight of the series, and we’ve never seen a Pokemon get the kind of development and focus that it did before. If it wasn’t already obvious, Diamond & Pearl is my favorite part of the anime as a whole.
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Old February 25th, 2014, 02:28 AM
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Originally Posted by LividZephyr View Post
DP so far is way better than Hoenn. Ash has a RIVAL, and you want to see him beat the guy. Characters reappear, there are a lot of ongoing storylines, and some of the happenings are amazing, too. Although I hate the thirty-second episode summaries that happen BEFORE the episode... started skipping them, but thankfully they're done now. I just finished DP065 "Sleight of Sand" which, according to Bulbapedia, is the last episode to have that garbage. Whew.
As much as I hate to admit it, DP is definitely better than AG. We had the contest clique in AG which I liked because it wasn't always about Ash, unlike OS. DP extended that network into a web of recurring characters that all meet each other and contest battle each other. Same thing happened with BW with the club battles.

"Sleight of Sand" was a fun episode. Pachirisu getting stuck in Hippowdown was hilariously entertaining, added with the fact that it kept digging underground before anyone had the chance to retrieve Pachirisu.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizardo View Post
Spoiler:
... in the next few episodes, #66-68, DP gives even more focus on Hikari’s character development when Satoshi and co. run into Sumomo. She’s taking a sabbatical from the Gym after losing disastrously to Shinji and her confidence is broken, which has made her Lucario angry. Hikari relates her own problems to Sumomo, and even has a Gym battle with her. Meanwhile Satoshi meets Shinji’s older brother, Reiji. All of it culminates in a fantastic Satoshi-Sumomo Gym battle, and I would really advise paying attention to the Reiji scenes. A plot point is introduced there that comes back to influence the Satoshi and Shinji rivalry in a big way later on. I think it’s too bad you don’t seem to be a fan of Haruka, though, because that character comes back to play a significant role in the resolution of this phase of Hikari’s journey.

Also, right after these episodes are finished, Team Galactic finally appears in person in #69. And believe me, for everything that Advanced Generation did wrong with Team Aqua and Team Magma, they do right with these guys.
Relic Badge spoilers ahead:
Spoiler:
Yes, the Maylene arc was really good! Instead of Ash and co. training for a Gym battle, it was Dawn training Maylene for her battle instead. Definitely a nice change of pace. DP by far had the greatest Gym Leader arcs of the entire series. The Byron arc was kind of boring however, reverting back to the ways of AG. The Fantina arc is reminiscent of Brawly's arc, where Ash lost and decided to train a lot before his rematch. Although I didn't enjoy it as much. Instead of AG when Ash trained with Brawly's style and learned how he battled, during DP Ash only trained for a way to counter Hypnosis (which wasn't even perfected by the time he had his rematch).


Quote:
A lot of the Gym and Contest battles are excellently-done (e.g. Satoshi vs. Melissa), there are episodes were you see Satoshi and Hikari actually training their Pokemon and as a result the constant dues ex machina we saw in AG more or less disappears, the rivals (Shinji, Jun, Urara, Kouhei - even if the last one isn’t really a “rival” in a traditional sense, he's one of the best side characters I've seen in the show) are great, and even some of the Pokemon develop. Hikozaru in particular is a highlight of the series, and we’ve never seen a Pokemon get the kind of development and focus that it did before. If it wasn’t already obvious, Diamond & Pearl is my favorite part of the anime as a whole.
It looks like a lot of the great aspects pioneered from DP have made their way to XY also. It's not all about Ash and Pikachu anymore. We get to see Ash raise and train all of his other Pokémon, spending very little time in their Poké Balls. Even Dawn and Brock are always releasing their Pokémon and raising them.
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Old February 25th, 2014, 05:24 PM
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I did not like May as a companion much. She was boring and had no purpose until contests came along. She lost her first one and won every one after that.
Don't see how May was boring at all. She was consistently funny and entertaining through most of Hoenn. Saying she "had no purpose until Contests came along" is a rather ridiculous argument since the Contests appeared as early as the 13th or 14th episode. Likewise, May lost two Contests in Hoenn, the second one being the first one she used her Bulbasaur in. While I agree with you that Dawn's struggle with Contests was handled better, I thought May was far funnier as a character in that timeframe.

As the saga progresses Dawn doesn't really change too much after the early episodes, and not to spoil anything, but her rivalries are generally handled poorly as the saga progresses.

Quote:
The whole Hoenn arc was pointless to watch because you started realizing that Ash and May were going to win by whatever Deus Ex Machina the writers could think up, Golden Armour being the worst of them and causing me to have the epiphany that Hoenn wasn't going to improve so I stopped watching. Mix that with the existence of Max, repetitive fillerific episodes, and major spoilers in openings that tell you everything that's going to happen in a season and you have what's hands-down a complete waste of an arc. At least Hoenn had great music, but after that there aren't many good things about it. I heard Battle Frontier was an improvement, though.
You can say this about any saga. There are cheap wins for Ash and his companions in every saga of the series. I don't see how any saga is pointless when Ash grew as a character, captured/evolved new pokemon, and his friends develop. I find it hard to believe you can accept Ash's first Gym win in Sinnoh of Turtwig throwing around Rampardos by the tail when it was a fully evolved Pokemon and Turtwig lost a few eps before.

DP had good points over most of the sagas, mainly Paul and the better handled villains. But it had lots of flaws too, a big one being Brock still being around even though he was a dead character and Piplup becomes grating as the arc continues.
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Old February 25th, 2014, 06:34 PM
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Hello, I thought I'd comment because I enjoyed Sinnoh very much! It's really nice to see people loving the DP series, especially considering I've always been around those who would be quick to slate Sinnoh as a saga filled with too many fillers and a snail pace progression but I thought otherwise of course! I definitely felt as if Sinnoh was one of the most enjoyable sagas, if not the MOST enjoyable and that was due to a variety of factors that I'll go into.

Many above have mentioned the role that Paul played during the series and I can honestly say that he was probably the best rival that Ash has gotten to date. As much as I loved Gary, I felt that there was more chemistry between Ash and Paul. The development that was led through Paul's way of training Pokemon and clashing almost personally towards Ash's was a really great way of starting their rivalry. I felt the seriousness of their battles and although at first, I felt that Ash was trying to befriend Paul, I quickly realised as seasons went by, I saw Ash trying to prove a point to him. Showing him how he believes in his Pokemon and taking care of them as well as forming a bond which Paul was baffled by, even mocking him for it.

Needless to say, their development as epic rivals gave us many battles, turning points and enlightened us on two very different styles of a trainer and the viewpoints they held. I think it broadens the ideals of a trainer and what one must do to be considered a good trainer in the Pokemon world. All of this added to the greatness of the DP saga.

Another factor mentioned above was Chimchar. A creative and somewhat original storyline that couldn't be compared to Charmander's storyline because we saw first hand what Chimchar was exposed under Paul's command, we then saw his origin and began get better understanding of how Chimchar came to be on Paul's team. We began to root for him as the underdog with Ash, because of how Paul saw him. The personal storyline for Chimchar set him apart from any other Pokemon on Ash's team because like Ash, he had a point to prove and something to strive towards. The development of Chimchar during his time with both Paul and Ash was written beautifully and he is by far my favourite starter (as well as my nephew's xD).

Dawn was a character I really struggled with at first because of how she was written up to be and about her contest desires. It seemed from early judgement a carbon copy of May and her storyline in Hoenn. I was already writing her off and cursing the writers for being so lazy with her. I'm not a big fan of May's but I was skeptical as to how she would be different BUT I'm glad I stuck it out there. She came in and brought on a different take on contest battling and I enjoyed the cute pokemon she brought on her team which kind of showed us how Dawn saw contest battling. I mean, I know she eventually caught a Mamoswine but before, she tended to catch very cuddly and small Pokemon. Anyhow, I enjoyed how she was handled. A novice trainer who was getting her balance together and learning what it was to be a coordinator. Nobody is going to be great at first but her development and her lessons throughout the saga was enlightening and interesting because you saw this kid start from losing and losing her confidence to slowly getting her bearings together and training harder to correct her mistakes. I thought that was cool, especially considering her mother was a coordinator and it would've easy to have her taken to contests easily. It was a nice progression for her character and I enjoyed where she ended up at the end. I thought her character really did make her own mark and defined a truer coordinator. I feel as though her journey could've brought her onto Unova maybe because there was a period where Dawn wasn't sure if she'd keep her current team along with her (which I took as her possibly continuing with Ash and Brock at the time but alas, no.) and I definitely think she could've received more development. Maybe taken on a side journey of Pokemon Fashion since that was a great interest of hers and Buneary's. Overall, she was a surprisingly great character and has become one of my favourite companions who is sorely missed too, I must say.

I didn't feel that I got enough of Hunter J but whenever she turned up, I really got a wave of excitement. I don't think we've had a truly evil (and successful) character in the series and it was nice to see the darker sides to the Pokemon world. I was really happy with her end and clapped as it happened. Another reason why Sinnoh was a great saga. Man, she was one evil... person xD.

Despite it being the longest saga, Sinnoh was probably the most detailed, planned and well executed through all its arc. I felt as though got no development until the end. I would've enjoyed it had they allowed him to discover slowly his choice to become a Pokemon doctor because that would've been a great storyline for him to have. I personally felt it was a cheap way of giving him the boot. The Pokemon teams of our protagonists were pretty good and their respective storylines were pretty good. My favourites were Chimchar, Turtwig, Buizel and Togekiss. What was your favourite Pokemon of the series?

On a sidenote, I thought it would've been lovely if Dawn caught a Teddiursa. They're just really cute.

I do feel that Sinnoh was the most darkest and violent saga of the five for reasons mentioned in my post. We had the training regime of Paul's which was practically abuse for the most parts and Team Galatic's terrifying plans for the world (although Team Flare was kind of scarier for me... Maybe it was all that red?) and of course, Hunter J. The legendaries also did strike me as more fearsome and just ferociously angry. My favourite legendary was probably Darkrai.

Alright, I've talked enough now. Excuse my grammar problems above, it's really excited and I couldn't stopped typing, haha. I'll ask a few questions if that's coolio?

What was your favourite Pokemon in this saga?
What was your favourite legendary in Sinnoh ?
How did you find the Team Galatic storyline?

Please feel free to discuss any of the comments I made.
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Last edited by Ducklighter; February 25th, 2014 at 07:40 PM. Reason: Did some grammar checks and added stuff~
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  #18    
Old February 26th, 2014, 04:24 AM
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What was your favourite Pokemon in this saga?
What was your favourite legendary in Sinnoh ?
How did you find the Team Galatic storyline?
My favorite Pokémon is Brock's Croagunk. It's always looking out for Brock and it definitely one of the funniest Pokémon of DP. The episode when the twerps' Pokémon dressed up like other Pokémon for a big contest and Croagunk was dressed as a Politoed was great. It won by sitting there and clapping its hands together during the whole episode lol. "Cream of the Croagunk Crop" was also a good example of Croagunk's humor. But Croagunk's rivalry with Team Galactic's Toxicroak is the best part about it.

I'm not sure which legendary is my favorite. Maybe Shaymin if movie Pokémon are allowed. I liked that movie the most out of the other movies from DP so that's my reasoning...

The Team Galactic storyline is incredible. It wasn't rushed like Team Plasma and they appeared more frequently with more significance than Team Aqua/Magma. I just watched the Iron Island episodes and the ending surprised me. What was even more surprising was how the Team Galactic episodes concluded (I spoiled myself a year ago and watched the last Team Galactic episode).
Spoiler:
When Cyrus jumped into his new universe and trapped himself in there forever, I couldn't believe it :O That's always seemed like one of Pokémon's darkest moments IMO. Team Galactic was actually better in the anime than it was in the games.
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  #19    
Old February 26th, 2014, 10:13 AM
Lizardo
 
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Originally Posted by precita
I don't see how any saga is pointless when Ash grew as a character, captured/evolved new pokemon, and his friends develop.
I didn’t really see much growth for Satoshi as a character in Advanced Generation. In fact that’s my biggest problem with that series. While Haruka got the character development, the entertaining rivals, and the well-handled storyline (minus some of her more forced victories), Satoshi felt like he was just there, going through the same motions he went through in the OS - only this time he didn’t even have a “Shigeru” (not that Shigeru himself really meant much as the OS went on, but at least he helped make the Jouto League interesting) and was instead stuck with two rather uninteresting characters who existed just for the Houen League. Aside from the Jindai arc at the end of the Battle Frontier episodes, I could very well see AG as a “pointless” saga as far as Satoshi was concerned. He didn’t really develop past the first few episodes, nor did he really give any impression of improvement. I honestly never got the sense the writers were trying anywhere near as hard with him as they did with Haruka, and since he’s the main character the was kind of hard to ignore.

And all that is one of the reasons why I loved Diamond & Pearl so much, because both Satoshi and Hikari had a story around each of their goals. You can argue over their quality, but neither of them were left in the background just to go through the bare minimum to justify their presence. Each of them went through some form of development and visibly improved as a trainer/coordinator as DP went on. And unlike AG or even the OS, Satoshi finally had a true rival who made regular appearances, challenged him on a personal level, and made a once-stale character compelling for the first time since the Orange Islands. Shinji made Satoshi look vulnerable and sympathetic, and made me actually cheer for him. The rivalry with Shinji, and the general arc around Satoshi’s Gym Battles, forced the character to take a look at some of his flaws and make the effort to improve. DP reminded me why Satoshi was my favorite character and why I wanted to see him succeed.

Quote:
As the saga progresses Dawn doesn't really change too much after the early episodes, and not to spoil anything, but her rivalries are generally handled poorly as the saga progresses.
I agree that, compared to Haruka’s rivals, Nozomi, Naoshi, and especially Kengo weren’t much. It’s even sadder because I truly thought they had potential (well, not Kengo, but the other two) in the early-going, and if Nozomi were a more interesting character I would have been able to appreciate a rivalry where the two rivals weren’t out for each other’s blood for once, especially compared to the antagonism between Satoshi and Shinji. But the general storyline of Hikari growing out of her mother’s shadow and becoming a strong coordinator in her own right, actually suffering for an extended period of time, and truly earning her triumphs was a compelling one. Her base personality doesn’t change (neither does Haruka’s or Satoshi’s, really), but by the time she returns Ayako’s Ribbon to her, Hikari clearly has all the potential to be a Top Coordinator. She’s truly come into her own. It’s not the same kind of development Haruka got, but it was visibly there.

Quote:
I find it hard to believe you can accept Ash's first Gym win in Sinnoh of Turtwig throwing around Rampardos by the tail when it was a fully evolved Pokemon and Turtwig lost a few eps before.
Considering Naetle won that battle as a result of a super-effective Grass-type attack in combination with Satoshi trying different tactics against Hyouta than his first battle, I could personally accept that one as easily as I could accept - say, Kimori’s victory over Touki’s Hariteyama, even though Hariteyama was fully evolved and Kimori had lost to it before. Things like Ohsubame actually getting stronger from Pikachu’s electricity (something the basic mechanics of the Pokemon world suggest to me should do the exact opposite), or Haruka’s Eneco somehow prevailing over that Samayouru, is far more difficult to buy. I wouldn’t deny that every series, including even Diamond & Pearl, has a few of those “WTF?” moments (e.g. any Hikari-Urara battle), but I’d argue they were much more prevalent in AG (well, at least until Best Wishes came around...).
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  #20    
Old February 26th, 2014, 12:08 PM
precita
 
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The Ash in AG is nothing like the Ash in Kanto/Johto. That's how you know he had growth. OS Ash would not interact with May/Max the same way AG Ash did. Ash was calm and mature for most of Hoenn, I could not see him like that prior.

Likewise Ash's growth is in his Pokemon. The AG arc overall is the first time Ash evolved the majority of his Pokemon. Only Corphish didn't evolve yet every single capture he had in AG was at their final stage, even Phanpy when he brought it back.

I don't understand how people can say Ash didn't grow in AG. Just compare him to his Kanto/Johto self and there's a large improvement. He develops more in DP of course, but there was plenty of growth for him this arc as well.
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  #21    
Old March 2nd, 2014, 10:29 PM
LividZephyr
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Let me rephrase that: Although May had her memorable moments, I felt they didn't do enough with her character. She was ripe with potential, and there wasn't much of a delivery on that. Part of it was that she never had anything go wrong for her as AG went on - Dawn DID have that. She's had some character development. May's lack thereof was boring. I think part of it was her awful brother, who took away far more than he added.

Ash in DP has had some things go wrong, in what I've seen so far. I mean...
Spoiler:
He's lost to gym leaders twice.
He's had arguments in tag battles where Paul/Shinji was his partner... but still managed to win anyway.
He was almost forced to evolve Pikachu because of Sho and his Raichu.
He's been nearly captured by Pokemon Hunter J and jettisoned for dead multiple times.


AG barely had any of that stuff. That's why it was so boring to watch. It was formulaic and predictable. DP hasn't been. Although I do know some stuff that happens later, but I won't say what.

As for my watchthrough, I just finished Giratina and the Sky Warrior, which I watched after DP086. I am going in the original order for Japan for the movies, dub order otherwise. I'm still really enjoying this - there are some episodes that are EPIC and that makes it so much more fun to watch. There are many other bad guys than Team Rocket, many recurring characters, some hilarious moments (oddly, most of them related to Team Rocket's motto going wrong in one way or another), multiple ongoing plots, and basically everything is well-done. Why can't every arc of Pokemon be like this? Obviously with different storylines and characters, but this really makes me realize how lackluster AG was in comparison.

Going to keep going as best as I can! Almost to the midway point
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  #22    
Old March 3rd, 2014, 11:23 AM
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It's true DP is the most plot-driven saga of the Pokemon anime, but I still don't understand why you're criticizing AG for this and not all the other sagas as well. The Johto arc was really nothing more than 3 years of filler and everything is handled worse than Hoenn, (and Misty pretty much loses her personality early into the saga and is shoved into the background until she leaves) and Best Wishes is pretty much the same.

Just curious, but how do you feel about Brock in DP? Most people disliked his presence in that arc and felt he should have left the anime when AG ended. In fact the reason why the writers finally got rid of him for good after that was due to how poorly received his character was.

Last edited by precita; March 3rd, 2014 at 11:34 AM.
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  #23    
Old March 3rd, 2014, 07:07 PM
LividZephyr
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AG in particular left a bad taste in my mouth with the filler and lack of plot; perhaps that was because it came after Johto, in which I started getting tired of the filler toward the end. Although some of the filler WAS amazing stuff, actually. And Johto's gym battles were awesome. Hoenn was like Johto with... nothing.

Best Wishes never interested me that much because it seemed so dull and pointless. I did like that Ash got over 6 Pokemon, but there wasn't enough room to develop them all given how fast they all were dumped on us.

As for Brock, I like him better than I did in AG. He was shoved into the background in AG and didn't really have much of a purpose to be there. Here, he's at least showing some development, and Croagunk jabbing him is better than... Max. The thing is that I feel that by this time, they'd run out of things to do with his character. I don't dislike him, but I feel they could do more with him than they did in what I've seen. It's basically the same old Brock - which can be seen as a good thing. But then again, it's the same old Ash, too... so why haven't they gotten rid of Ash too? I think DP would have been an excellent final arc for him, and then reboot entirely with BW having Hilda, Cheren, and Bianca as the protagonists.

Especially given...
Spoiler:

I know Ash gets third at the Sinnoh League, losing to the eventual champion who uses hacked ubers. If you need to have someone like that to beat Ash... I think it's not unreasonable to think he's become close enough to a Master.
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  #24    
Old March 3rd, 2014, 08:16 PM
precita
 
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Originally Posted by LividZephyr View Post
As for Brock, I like him better than I did in AG. He was shoved into the background in AG and didn't really have much of a purpose to be there. Here, he's at least showing some development, and Croagunk jabbing him is better than... Max. The thing is that I feel that by this time, they'd run out of things to do with his character. I don't dislike him, but I feel they could do more with him than they did in what I've seen. It's basically the same old Brock - which can be seen as a good thing. But then again, it's the same old Ash, too... so why haven't they gotten rid of Ash too? I think DP would have been an excellent final arc for him, and then reboot entirely with BW having Hilda, Cheren, and Bianca as the protagonists.
Well yeah, but with Ash I tend to ignore it because I know why the writers keep him around. The thing is with Brock is he really had no business coming back for multiple generations while all the girls left after only one series. Its hard to believe Brock was in around 600 episodes of the anime but it doesn't feel like it because of how much a backdrop he is in most episodes to the point where you don't even realize he's there after doing his repetitive flirting gag. I also don't think Brock and Dawn had any interesting chemistry at all, which is probably why I disliked him in DP because he felt like such a third wheel...even moreso than usual.

The writers probably already knew by mid-Hoenn that they were going to continue bringing in a new girl every series, so by that point you have to wonder why they bothered to have Brock linger on so long. With Cilan in BW and now Clemont in the XY series, it just seems out of place that Brock was there. If he was actually going through character development it'd be different, but he goes through so little that there was just no point. Can't say I was sad to see Brock finally leave for good when DP finally ended, it actually had a long time coming.
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  #25    
Old March 3rd, 2014, 08:54 PM
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Wobbu
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Brock had more purpose during DP than AG. He was used as a tool for Ash's and Dawn's individual development IMO. Brock taught Dawn the basics of keeping Pokémon healthy, which was showcased during Trials and Adulations when Dawn took care of her ill Mamoswine independently. Brock also helped Ash with his Gym strategies and made the connection between Buizel/Aipom iirc. Brock's presence in DP was a great transition from being Ash's sidekick to a serious breeder, which is why it was good that he pursued his dream and left after DP. He had much better reasoning for leaving before Unova compared to leaving before the Orange Islands.
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