The PokéCommunity Forums  

Go Back   The PokéCommunity Forums > Off-Topic Discussions > Discussions & Debates
Sign Up Rules/FAQ Live Battle Blogs Mark Forums Read

Notices

Discussions & Debates The place to go for slightly more intellectual topics. Discussions and debates about the world, current events, ideas, news, and more.


Reply
Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.  
Thread Tools
  #1    
Old February 9th, 2014, 12:54 PM
Digimon Kaiser's Avatar
Digimon Kaiser
White and Nerdy
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Digital World
Age: 22
Gender: Male
Nature: Adamant
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/w...raffe/5338485/

Inbreeding? They could have sent the giraffe to another zoo like people signed a petition for, or at the very least had him neutered. The zoo staff also had him fed to lions after they put him to sleep and shot him. That is the worst part. It makes me sick to my stomach....
Reply With Quote
  #2    
Old February 9th, 2014, 01:37 PM
CureYoshiDarkness's Avatar
CureYoshiDarkness
A Shy Workhorse Centaurian
Community Supporter Tier 5
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Southern NJ
Gender: Male
Nature: Timid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digimon Kaiser
They could have sent the giraffe to another zoo like people signed a petition for, or at the very least had him neutered.
Remember, this is Denmark. So people might of said something, but the zoo officials most likely didn't care or ignored the people's reasoning. Its a shame how the human heart can be so wicked and cruel; sadly, all of us have some darkness in us and seeing this makes me sick. The picture in the article as well, that is double the ugh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Digimon Kaiser
The zoo staff also had him fed to lions after they put him to sleep and shot him. That is the worst part. It makes me sick to my stomach....
Another example of the human heart's cruelty. If the giraffe was sick and was going to die, I could understand putting it to sleep, to let the beast no longer suffer; but, this was to stop inbreeding, yes? So it wasn't sick or ill, or dying in anytime; it was to stop the giraffe from mating with a family member. And to actually put its remains on public display so the lions rip and eat it up, is beyond far. Sure, in its natural habitat, the lion would eat a dead giraffe as that was its game, prey and meal....but the zoo's way of publicly removing the giraffe by having it be eaten like that is both disrupting and sickening to young children and adults.

I personally love giraffes and think them gentle and interesting creatures. I was linked this article and personally got sick after seeing the photographer's shot there. Why not have the lion's exhibit closed for the time so no one who witness the poor giraffe's demise, or better off why not just have it transferred to another zoo, and have that zoo transfer a giraffe back to this one?

Seriously, the lack of human thought process causes me to lose braincells every time I see a stupid choice be made. And I thought TV and YouTube were the worst cause of braincell lost, you'd be surprised.
__________________


|||||
Reply With Quote
  #3    
Old February 9th, 2014, 06:35 PM
griever7x's Avatar
griever7x
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Italy
Age: 22
Gender: Male
Nature: Sassy
I am not surprised one bit. Animals are abused by us for as many purposes as you can think of, and most if not all of these purposes can't be justified.
Zoos are one of the things that can't be justified, they are cruel.
Even so, certain individuals need to stretch it even further and commit acts like these for apparently no valid reason.
Reply With Quote
  #4    
Old February 9th, 2014, 07:39 PM
Kanzler
スペースディスコ 82.
Community Supporter Tier 3
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Toronto
Age: 20
Gender: Male
Nature: Relaxed
Quote:
Originally Posted by CureYoshiDarkness View Post
Remember, this is Denmark. So people might of said something, but the zoo officials most likely didn't care or ignored the people's reasoning. Its a shame how the human heart can be so wicked and cruel; sadly, all of us have some darkness in us and seeing this makes me sick. The picture in the article as well, that is double the ugh.
What about it being Denmark?

What's wrong about feeding it to the lions? It was killed before it was fed, anyways. Zoos to me are as much about education as they are showing off animals to the public. Besides, I'm not sure how often lions get to eat real flesh. If anything, people can witness a feeding in its natural state. That's what lions /do/ and it shouldn't be sugarcoated because it "offends our sensibilities".
__________________
Minerva.
Reply With Quote
  #5    
Old February 9th, 2014, 08:44 PM
Omicron's Avatar
Omicron
Memories are worse than bullets.
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Nature: Modest
The Giraffe, due to Zoo policies, could have only been placed in another member Zoo of the European Association of Zoos and Aquaria. The giraffe was deemed not suitable for the International Breeding Program because of its genes. The giraffe was already inbred. Also, having perfect health at the moment didn't mean it wasn't at risk. It had a very a high risk of suffering from multiple diseases, including high cancer rates.

Feeding it to the lions is also in no way a bad thing. It was killed with a bolt gun and not a lethal injection because the chemicals would make the meat unsuitable for food. Why complain about a giraffe being killed this way and not about the thousands of cows and other livestock killed every single day with this method for our consumption? Feeding correctly all the animals at a zoo not only is very expensive but also very difficult. Such a large quantity of good, useful meat couldn't be thrown away just like that.

People don't understand the complexity of the breeding programs, reintroduction programs, and the overall complexity of managing a zoo and taking care of the animals. Why would a zoo, especially one participating in International Breeding Programs, make such a rash decision if it wasn't absolutely the only choice?

And don't get me wrong, I don't like nor I'm in favor of what happened. I find bolt-guns to be inhumane, but it just feels like hypocrisy or double standards, even just plain ignorance, to make such a fuss about the giraffe and none about cows or other livestock. I would have loved that all of this had a different outcome, but I respect the zoo's decision.

Who are we to tell them, experts, people that devote their lives to learning and taking care of the animals, the people that know the animals, that grow fond on them and vice versa, that they made the wrong choice/decision?
__________________

Last edited by Omicron; February 9th, 2014 at 08:57 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #6    
Old February 10th, 2014, 07:58 AM
griever7x's Avatar
griever7x
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Italy
Age: 22
Gender: Male
Nature: Sassy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omicron View Post
People don't understand the complexity of the breeding programs, reintroduction programs, and the overall complexity of managing a zoo and taking care of the animals. Why would a zoo, especially one participating in International Breeding Programs, make such a rash decision if it wasn't absolutely the only choice?
Are you aware that of around 6000 species only around 100 are involved in these so called International Breeding Programs?
Anyways, what I don't understand are your attempts at justifying something as cruel as this. What are the purposes of the zoo? Education? What a joke. I would understand if they were kept free, in their environment, but behind a cage they are nothing more than tools for our entertainment, and these animals certainly don't behave the way they would in the wilderness, so nothing valuable can be learned from this.
Instead of funding the construction of new zoos, people could use that money for the funding of natural reserves, where they can be properly educated about animals. Oh wait, zoos are justified! We can put there all the animals while we poach and destroy their natural habitats!
Reply With Quote
  #7    
Old February 10th, 2014, 08:17 AM
Pinkie-Dawn's Avatar
Pinkie-Dawn
King of Kaiju
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: California
Age: 21
Gender: Male
Nature: Quirky
At first I thought this wasn't the best option they've done with the giraffe as they could've at least transfer it into another zoo to prevent in-breeding problems, but after reading Omicron's post, I never knew the giraffe would already be sick sooner or later due to being an in-breed. Perhaps what the Danish Zoo did might've been the right thing to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by griever7x View Post
I am not surprised one bit. Animals are abused by us for as many purposes as you can think of, and most if not all of these purposes can't be justified.
Zoos are one of the things that can't be justified, they are cruel.
Even so, certain individuals need to stretch it even further and commit acts like these for apparently no valid reason.
You do realize that the purpose of zoos nowadays is to help endangered animals by giving a safe environment where they're free from the elements and live longer lives. They also have breeding programs and reintroduction programs for selected endangered animals such as the giant panda and help educate people to be aware of the dangers going on with their wild counterparts. The San Diego Zoo is a perfect example of this. They have a large elephant exhibit where they not care for these pachyderms but also provide the right environmental elements to keep them in good shape like in the wild, which some zoos tend to have issues with since elephants are one of the more difficult animals to take care of in captivity.
__________________

Credit goes to anon from JoyReactor.com for the sig he posted
Reply With Quote
  #8    
Old February 10th, 2014, 08:36 AM
griever7x's Avatar
griever7x
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Italy
Age: 22
Gender: Male
Nature: Sassy
Yeah, my bad, I need to apologize because I am way too idealistic, I need to fall down from the clouds.
These animals wouldn't need our 'help' and a safe environment if we didn't endanger them in the first place, and I don't care much about the 'elements'... That's part of nature, so be it. There are better solutions than a cage ( which is often a stressful environment for the animal ) for helping and safeguarding wild animals, as I said above, such as natural reserves, which are hundreds of times larger than a zoo.
Reply With Quote
  #9    
Old February 10th, 2014, 08:41 AM
Pinkie-Dawn's Avatar
Pinkie-Dawn
King of Kaiju
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: California
Age: 21
Gender: Male
Nature: Quirky
Quote:
Originally Posted by griever7x View Post
Yeah, my bad, I need to apologize because I am way too idealistic, I need to fall down from the clouds.
These animals wouldn't need our 'help' and a safe environment if we didn't endanger them in the first place, and I don't care much about the 'elements'... That's part of nature, so be it. There are better solutions than a cage ( which is often a stressful environment for the animal ) for helping and safeguarding wild animals, as I said above, such as natural reserves, which are hundreds of times larger than a zoo.
Poachers and cultural differences are still a problem when a comes to natural reserves, especially when there's corruption involved, in which the guards get payed by the poachers.
__________________

Credit goes to anon from JoyReactor.com for the sig he posted
Reply With Quote
  #10    
Old February 10th, 2014, 10:33 AM
Kanzler
スペースディスコ 82.
Community Supporter Tier 3
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Toronto
Age: 20
Gender: Male
Nature: Relaxed
Quote:
Originally Posted by griever7x View Post
Anyways, what I don't understand are your attempts at justifying something as cruel as this. What are the purposes of the zoo? Education? What a joke. I would understand if they were kept free, in their environment, but behind a cage they are nothing more than tools for our entertainment, and these animals certainly don't behave the way they would in the wilderness, so nothing valuable can be learned from this.
My interest in animals began as a toddler visiting zoos. Over my school years I've had the opportunity to visit the zoo for field trips. Zoos also do demonstrations for their exhibits and they're an opportunity for children and adults alike to learn - seeing things for yourself is much more meaningful than reading it out of a book or website. Zoos as a form of education is certainly not a joke to me.
__________________
Minerva.
Reply With Quote
  #11    
Old February 10th, 2014, 12:48 PM
Omicron's Avatar
Omicron
Memories are worse than bullets.
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Nature: Modest
Quote:
Originally Posted by griever7x View Post
Are you aware that of around 6000 species only around 100 are involved in these so called International Breeding Programs?
Anyways, what I don't understand are your attempts at justifying something as cruel as this. What are the purposes of the zoo? Education? What a joke. I would understand if they were kept free, in their environment, but behind a cage they are nothing more than tools for our entertainment, and these animals certainly don't behave the way they would in the wilderness, so nothing valuable can be learned from this.
Instead of funding the construction of new zoos, people could use that money for the funding of natural reserves, where they can be properly educated about animals. Oh wait, zoos are justified! We can put there all the animals while we poach and destroy their natural habitats!
Of course that I'm aware of that. Having breeding and reintroduction programs for all species would be next to impossible. I wish all of the species could be involved, but alas, it cannot be. And some help is better than none. I don't understand your point in that statement.

Any decent zoo won't use cages. They use enclosed habitats, yes, but not cages. They have daily exercise routines, specialized diets and winter/night shelters. They also have toys and treats hidden inside of them. In any decent zoo, the animals aren't unhappy.

Do you really think I'd rather have zoos than natural reserves? Nothing, literally nothing, in life would make me happier. Well, there's one thing that would make me happier. Not needing them. But things are this way now, habiats lost, poaching and hunting. We can't change the past, but we can change the future. And unfortunately for you, zoos are primordial to reestablishing the natural order. Are you aware of the number of species that would now be lost without zoos? Yes, zoos were atrocities in the past, but most have evolved way past that. I agree, we don't need any more zoos, but negating their importance on conservation efforts isn't right. You are talking about them as if they were circuses. Now, those do need to go down. You said that we wouldn't need them if we hadn't endanger them in the first place. That's true, but as I stated above, we can't change the past. And in order to reestablish natural order, zoos are, I would say a necessary evil but most aren't evil, so I'll leave it in necessary.

My lifelong dream and goal is, and has been fo a looong time, to create or run a natural reserve. But zoos are a great way to educate and bring awareness to people, which unfortunately, in our society, would be hard to achieve otherwise. The next step is indeed turning zoos into natural reserves, but we still have a long way to go before that. So let's start by recognizing that zoos are important and most of them take great care of their animals and not satanize them, shall we?

Also, poaching and habitat destruction need to stop now. Virunga National Park is in great danger. This is the wildlife conservation issue we should be focused on. No, not because this isn't important, it is very important. I'm glad many people are getting involved in situations like this. That more people care than they did years ago. But because this natural reserve and its thousands of species are in great danger. We are talking about a whole ecosystem here. And a key one for that matter. If we don't do something the damages might be irreversible.

Unfortunately, yes you are being very idealistic. And there's nothing wring with that, I was the same way. But in this times it won't help. We need to be very objective, sometimes accept facts that we do not agree with but that are the best way of action. I'm profoundly sad for the giraffe, I really am. But if this saved it from future suffering and helps maintain a healthy line of genes for future giraffes I have to accept it was the best course of action. The only thing in which I do not agree with them was making it public. Now some crazy people have threatened to kill workers of the zoo, many not even related to this incident, and also suffered from death threats to their families.

The human being is a terrifying creature.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #12    
Old February 10th, 2014, 04:19 PM
griever7x's Avatar
griever7x
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Italy
Age: 22
Gender: Male
Nature: Sassy
I agree with you, Omicron, we need to be objective and not let our emotions sway us into the wrong course of action, especially when there's the danger of losing something so valuable.
I tend to get heated up when talking about animals, and I am glad you care about them and you have such an amazing dream!
Anyways, yes, you have defined zoos in the best way possible: a necessary evil. Animals are captive, and while certainly they can be taken care of and protected this way, they still live in an enclosed space, where they aren't meant to be ( I can say I wish all zoos were the way you described, but unfortunately they aren't ).
Also, I must apologize, because I never acknowledged in any of my posts the importance of zoos in saving so many species from extinction, that was a big fault of mine.
Regardless, I still strongly doubt that people can learn much by going to the zoo. Animals, there, don't behave the same way they would in their natural habitats, free to live the lives they're meant to. You certainly know much, much more than me, and you have succeeded in convincing me to not hate zoos so much, and I thank you for this, but you can at least concede me that programs, documentaries and books can give people true, valuable knowledge on animal species. Zoos just show how animals behave in an enclosed space, and, if anything, when I visited them they convinced me that there's a better solution.

Last edited by griever7x; February 10th, 2014 at 04:25 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #13    
Old February 10th, 2014, 05:53 PM
Omicron's Avatar
Omicron
Memories are worse than bullets.
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Nature: Modest
Of course, programs, books and documentaries give real and very valuable knowledge on animals and their behaviors. Most of them give more information than zoos can give without guides. I'd much rather have those as the only means of information available (besides natural reserves), but unfortunately, in our modern society, people are either too busy or don't care enough to go to these sources for information. They would much rather make time to go to the zoo and learn little than inform themselves profoundly with these other sources, alas. :/
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #14    
Old February 11th, 2014, 03:45 AM
Yukiyo Kayume's Avatar
Yukiyo Kayume
The Leviathan
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: with Hakuryuu Ren
Gender: Female
Nature: Relaxed
Yea I thought this was a really sad story... at least they should have closed down the lion's den so people couldn't watch. I mean, you could see it on the Discovery channel or something if you were really that interested.

I hope they at least announced that that was going to happen beforehand, so people who didn't want to witness such a thing could leave. Personally, I would be pretty scared to see something like that up-close.

I'm not gonna say anything about whether the zoo was right or wrong because I don't know enough about their policies and stuff, so yeah... it's still sad though.
__________________
Hakuryuu Ren

Friend Code: 2148-9230-3068
Reply With Quote
  #15    
Old February 11th, 2014, 03:09 PM
Kanzler
スペースディスコ 82.
Community Supporter Tier 3
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Toronto
Age: 20
Gender: Male
Nature: Relaxed
If you look at the pictures, they actually had zoo-goers huddled around the giraffe carcass as they were carving it up. This makes me think that they made an opportunity to have a demonstration. In any case, the people who were most interested in having that kind of experience witnessed the "event" (I don't even think it's that newsworthy to give it such a name).

Personally, I think there is a disconnect with the material world when people feel repulsed by such events. For most people, eating meat is natural, and for most people they've come in contact with how meat is produced - whether it be the slaughtering of animals at a marketplace or in the household, or making food in their own kitchen. I think there are segments of society that live a very sanitized lifestyle in which events that would be common in other parts of the world, especially poorer countries, are seen as wrong and with a visceral reaction of disgust.
__________________
Minerva.
Reply With Quote
  #16    
Old February 14th, 2014, 06:01 AM
MegaIndianCharizardX's Avatar
MegaIndianCharizardX
Making johto anime hack.
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Delhi ,India
Age: 19
Gender: Male
Nature: Brave
Disastarious! Thats why democratic government is considered the the best thing in the world. I am very proud of my country, that we are atleast not doing the things that goes against humanity. We may be backward in some cases, but at least we don't anything like these. #Proud to be an Indian.
__________________
Anybody want to help me in Johto Anime Hack?
You can apply Here:- Click here

My Profile / My Johto Anime Hack Thread / My Johto Anime Team Disscusion Thread
Reply With Quote
Reply
Quick Reply

Sponsored Links


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Minimum Characters Per Post: 25



All times are UTC -8. The time now is 10:16 AM.


Style by Nymphadora, artwork by Sa-Dui.
Like our Facebook Page Follow us on Twitter © 2002 - 2014 The PokéCommunity™, pokecommunity.com.
Pokémon characters and images belong to The Pokémon Company International and Nintendo. This website is in no way affiliated with or endorsed by Nintendo, Creatures, GAMEFREAK, The Pokémon Company or The Pokémon Company International. We just love Pokémon.
All forum styles, their images (unless noted otherwise) and site designs are © 2002 - 2014 The PokéCommunity / PokéCommunity.com.
PokéCommunity™ is a trademark of The PokéCommunity. All rights reserved. Sponsor advertisements do not imply our endorsement of that product or service. User generated content remains the property of its creator.