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  #1    
Old February 19th, 2014 (01:40 PM). Edited February 19th, 2014 by Wyrdfell.
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Forretress (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
-Stealth Rock
-Rapid Spin
-Gyro Ball
-Volt Switch/spikes

Cresselia @ Light Clay
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SDef
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Light Screen
- Reflect
- Trick Room
- Moonlight

Umbreon @ Maranga Berry
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SDef
Impish Nature
- Curse
- Sucker Punch
- Wish
- Protect

Considering:
Sylveon @ Leftovers:
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP/ 128 Def / 128 SDef
Bold Nature
-Wish
-Protect\ Baton pass...?
-Hyper Voice
-Heal Bell/Calm Mind

Gliscor (M) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Atk
Impish Nature
- Protect
- Substitute
- Earthquake
- Toxic

Milotic @ Leftovers
Ability: Marvel Scale
EVs: 100 HP / 252 Def / 100 SAtk / 56 SDef
Bold Nature
- Haze / Dragon Tail
- Recover
- Mirror Coat
- Scald

Ampharos-Mega (M) @ Ampharosite
Ability: Static => Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk
Quiet Nature
- Volt Switch
- Heal Bell\ Focus Blast
- Thunderbolt
- Dragon Pulse
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  #2    
Old February 19th, 2014 (04:06 PM).
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It needs something... I can see it, I can feel it! It needs/require/wants a trick-room. The best choice is to put in Cresselia. or take out Milotic or charizard. Then put it on one of your new mon's. Your pokemons are generally slow, so if you play trick room it will let you to "probably" attack first.

I just notices that a Clawitzer or a MegaBlastoise can blow them all (except Milotic). It has weakness in Fighting and Ice
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  #3    
Old February 19th, 2014 (04:28 PM). Edited February 19th, 2014 by Wyrdfell.
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I see where you're going with trick room...for some of my team they would love to go first(Gliscor, Milotic Cresselia, Forrestres), but it contradicts Umbreon's Payback and is none too good for Charizard so it does require me to be rid of one of them... I'll definitely consider it; it's a really good move for most of my team
I'm not terribly concerned about clawitzer; OHKO by Charizard's Solarbeam just stalled out by milotic.But mega blastoise is a problem...maybe a Roserade or Meganium? both are great leech stallers and have Aromatherapy...
Ice and fire weakness is countered by Charizard, which it makes it so hard to replace him!
Thanks for that advice; haven't considered a lot of what you said
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Old February 19th, 2014 (04:33 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Wyrdfell:
I see where you're going with trick room...for some of my team they would love to go first(Gliscor, Milotic Cresselia, Forrestres), but it contradicts Umbreon's Payback and is none too good for Charizard so it does require me to be rid of one of them... I'll definitely consider it; it's a really good move for most of my team
I'm not terribly concerned about clawitzer; OHKO by Charizard's Solarbeam just stalled out by milotic.But mega blastoise is a problem...maybe a Roserade or Meganium? both are great stallers and have Aromatherapy
This is just a quick reply since im cooking right now. You might have to take out charizard, and put Mega Ampharos, or Mega Mawile. Also for umbreom and payback... you can switch it for sucker punch !
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  #5    
Old February 19th, 2014 (04:53 PM). Edited February 19th, 2014 by Wyrdfell.
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Sucker punch is perfect, didn't know Umbreon has that...I'll change that right now
honestly I don't know much about Ampharos,I'll have to look into that
Thanks a ton; Mega Ampharos is perfect for trick room and the team
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  #6    
Old February 19th, 2014 (04:59 PM).
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I am really, really sorry =(. I just realized umbreon doesn't learn sucker punch. It was absol who was able to learn it . Anyways Foul play works too. It does learn it, in gen 4... it requires a move tutor
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  #7    
Old February 19th, 2014 (05:13 PM).
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Thanks for that amazing advice, I've replaced Charizard with Ampharos and got trick room...I would have never considered this strategy
The team probably needs more tweeking, but this is really good progress
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  #8    
Old February 19th, 2014 (05:18 PM).
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A couple of other things:

Don't run 3 entry hazards on Forretress. You usually don't need that many hazards, and it's total Taunt and set-up bait. swap a hazard with Volt Switch or Gyro Ball.

Gliscor's EV spread should be 252 HP, 248 Defense, 12 Speed. No amount of Sp.Defense EVs will save it from special attacks. And give it an Impish nature.
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  #9    
Old February 19th, 2014 (05:20 PM).
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Forretress is massive setup bait. I wouldn't recommend it having all 3 entry hazards + Rapid Spin for this reason alone:
-Spikes/Stealth Rock
-Rapid Spin
-Gyro Ball
-Earthquake/Volt Switch
Nature: Relaxed
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SDef
Item: Leftovers

Klefki and Espeon get the nod ahead of Cresselia as dual screeners because the former has Prankster to ensure it gets a screen or a layer of Spikes up before it gets Taunted, while the latter can't be Taunted altogether thanks to Magic Bounce, among other things:

Klefki:
-Reflect
-Light Screen
-Spikes
-Dazzling Gleam/Foul Play
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP/152 Def/104 SDef
Item: Light Clay
Ability: Prankster

Espeon:
-Reflect
-Light Screen
-Psychic/Psyshock
-Hidden Power (Fire)/Dazzling Gleam/Baton Pass
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 Spe
Item: Light Clay
Ability: Magic Bounce

Gliscor is better off with an Impish nature. Even with specially defensive investment, it still folds to strong Water and Ice moves:
-Earthquake
-Substitute
-Protect/Taunt
-Toxic
Nature: Impish
EVs: 244 HP/40 Def/224 Spe
Item: Toxic Orb
Abiilty: Poison Heal

or
-Stealth Rock/Taunt
-Earthquake
-U-turn/Knock Off
-Protect/Roost
Nature: Impish
EVs: 244 HP/40 Def/224 Spe
Item: Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal

I don't recommend Umbreon at all. It's outclassed as a bulky Dark Pokemon in general by Mandibuzz, who has more utility options, and as a Wish user by Vaporeon and Sylveon (the former passes bigger Wishes, while the latter has Pixilate-boosted Hyper Voices to pose more as an offensive threat if it has to):

Mandibuzz:
-Foul Play
-Roost
-Taunt/Whirlwind
-Defog/Toxic/Knock Off
Nature: Bold/Impish
EVs: 248 HP/252 Def/8 SDef
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Overcoat

Vaporeon:
-Wish
-Protect
-Scald
-Ice Beam/Toxic/Roar
Nature: Bold
EVs: 248 HP/252 Def/8 SDef
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb

Sylveon:
-Wish
-Protect
-Hyper Voice
-Heal Bell/Calm Mind
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP/244 Def/12 Spe
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate

I also wouldn't recommend Milotic on the team. It doesn't have much that makes it stand out from other Water Pokemon. I think that Greninja or Keldeo are better fits on the team because this team needs some sort of offensive muscle outside of Charizard:

Greninja:
-Hydro Pump/Surf
-Ice Beam/Dark Pulse
-Extrasensory/Dark Pulse
-U-turn/Hidden Power (Grass/Fire)/Grass Knot
Nature: Naive/Timid
EVs: 4 Atk/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb/Expert Belt
Ability: Protean

or
-Spikes
-Hydro Pump/Surf
-Ice Beam
-Extrasensory/U-turn
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb/Focus Sash

Keldeo:
-Hydro Pump
-Secret Sword
-Icy Wind
-Hidden Power (Flying/Electric)/Surf/Scald
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb/Choice Scarf

or
-Calm Mind
-Hydro Pump/Scald
-Secret Sword
-Hidden Power (Ghost)/Icy Wind
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb/Lum Berry

I don't think Charizard Y is suited for this team, as its Drought will end up weakening the Water moves of whatever Water Pokemon you pick. Charizard X is the better option, IMO. While you did go with Ampharos, Charizard X is something else you can consider:
-Dragon Dance
-Flare Blitz/Fire Punch
-Dragon Claw/Outrage
-Earthquake/Roost
Nature: Jolly/Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
Item: Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze

or
-Fire Punch
-Dragon Claw
-Will-o-Wisp
-Roost
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 248 HP/84 SDef/176 Spe
Item: Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze

Also, here's what Mega Ampharos should look like:
-Rest
-Sleep Talk
-Volt Switch
-Dragon Pulse
Nature: Modest
EVs: 252 HP/44 SAtk/192 SDef/20 Spe
Item: Ampharosite
Ability: Static

or
-Volt Switch
-Dragon Pulse
-Focus Blast
-Thunderbolt/Discharge/Heal Bell
Nature: Modest
EVs: 236 HP/252 SAtk/20 Spe
Item: Ampharosite
Ability: Static
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  #10    
Old February 19th, 2014 (05:23 PM). Edited February 19th, 2014 by Wyrdfell.
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@ No Chance Without Zekrom: Okay, so replace toxic spikes with gyro ball, yes?
SDef could save him from neutral special attacks, but yeah, of its ice beam or light cannon or such there's no chance...

@PlatinumDude:
It's really difficult--really-- difficult to give up milotic; it's my favorite pokemon by far. Strategically, Milotic has mirror coat and is a good hazer which makes it stand out a bit, but I do see yours-- and Smogon's-- Point
Trusting your expertise you seem to show, I'll tweek Gliscor and Forretres and Ampharos according to your advice and re-considered Umbreon;I admit there are better pokemon (vaporeon, sylveon,mandibuzz,etc.) Out there
I'm not positive on of klefki or espepn has trick room, but as Krystia said, my team would want it
Thanks very much for your really lengthy reply; I really appreciate it
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  #11    
Old February 19th, 2014 (05:28 PM). Edited February 19th, 2014 by PlatinumDude.
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Quote originally posted by Wyrdfell:
Okay, so replace toxic spikes with gyro ball, yes?
SDef could save him from neutral special attacks, but yeah, of its ice beam or light cannon or such there's no chance...
Not just that. Replace one of your other hazards with Earthquake or Volt Switch.

And it's "Flash Cannon", not "Light Cannon".

@Krystia: not all slow teams need Trick Room. The team has to be built around the move (which this team doesn't look like it is), instead of the move being slapped on the team with little to no thought at all.

Edit: here's a standalone Trick Room setter in Reuniclus. It helps vs. offensive teams:
-Trick Room
-Psychic/Psyshock
-Shadow Ball
-Hidden Power (Fire)/Focus Blast
Nature: Quiet
EVs: 192 HP/64 Def/252 SAtk
Item: Life Orb/Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard

Porygon2 can also act as backup, but find someone else to take out:
-Trick Room
-Ice Beam
-Thunderbolt
-Recover/Tri Attack
Nature: Quiet
EVs: 252 HP/252 SAtk/4 SDef
Item: Eviolite
Ability: Download/Trace
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  #12    
Old February 19th, 2014 (06:15 PM). Edited February 19th, 2014 by Wyrdfell.
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Cresselia has much more bulk than either of them, and acts as a dual screener too...
Yes, Trick room should be carefully considered, as it can turn out disastrous when used carelessly, but my team is generally slow and can get slower of need be... I'll try it out to test of it proves more good than bad

Favoring Sylveon, but I'm inexperienced with it...
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Old February 19th, 2014 (06:19 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Wyrdfell:
Cresselia has much more bulk than either of them, and acts as a dual screener too...
Yes, Trick room should be carefully considered, as it can turn out disastrous when used carelessly, but my team is generally slow and can get slower of need be... I'll try it out to test of it proves more good than bad
While Cresselia is bulky, it's just too fast for Trick Room. It's also seriously screwed by Taunt. Both Reuniclus and Porygon2 also pose more offensive presence than Cresselia do.

Moving on with your changes:

See my other Gliscor sets. It uses 244 HP/40 Def/224 Spe with an Impish nature. While the Defense investment isn't much, this spread gives Gliscor enough Speed to outspeed +Speed base 90 Pokemon like regular Lucario.

See my comments about Milotic. There are better Pokemon out there than it. What KOs does Milotic prevent/achieve with your current spread?
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Old February 19th, 2014 (06:25 PM).
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Quote originally posted by PlatinumDude:
While Cresselia is bulky, it's just too fast for Trick Room. It's also seriously screwed by Taunt. Both Reuniclus and Porygon2 also pose more offensive presence than Cresselia do.

Moving on with your changes:

See my other Gliscor sets. It uses 244 HP/40 Def/224 Spe with an Impish nature. While the Defense investment isn't much, this spread gives Gliscor enough Speed to outspeed +Speed base 90 Pokemon like regular Lucario.

See my comments about Milotic. There are better Pokemon out there than it. What KOs does Milotic prevent/achieve with your current spread?
If he's gonna stick with Trick Room, the Speed EVs on Gliscor are a bit detrimental. And it sounds like he really wants to use Milotic. Though he should use a different set; what he's currently got is kinda inefficient at anything.
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Old February 19th, 2014 (06:28 PM).
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Quote originally posted by No Chance Without Zekrom:
If he's gonna stick with Trick Room, the Speed EVs on Gliscor are a bit detrimental. And it sounds like he really wants to use Milotic. Though he should use a different set; what he's currently got is kinda inefficient at anything.
What if Trick Room wears off before Gliscor comes in? Not all Pokemon in Trick Room teams have to be slow, you know; there has to be a fast attacker or two should Trick Room wear off and if the primary Trick Room setters are gone.

Regarding Milotic, even if it's a favorite, I still don't see it performing well in OU.
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Old February 19th, 2014 (06:45 PM). Edited February 19th, 2014 by Wyrdfell.
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My Milotic has been the deciding winning factor in quite a few battles I've had; Dragon tail has ended a few attempts at boosting, and mirror coat has beat the likes of Gengar and Thundurus. Milotic is not as terrible as you see it to be.
Concerning Trick Room, I do not have enough experience with it to argue it's effectiveness, which is why I've made this thread
Mirror Coat proof: 52 SpA Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 56 SpD Milotic: 224-266 (56.8 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
If mirror coat lands out is a OHKO
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Old February 19th, 2014 (06:50 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Wyrdfell:
My Milotic has been the deciding winning factor in quite a few battles I've had; Dragon tail has ended a few attempts at boosting, and mirror coat has beat the likes of Gengar and Thundurus. Milotic is not as terrible as you see it to be.
Vaporeon can still phaze with Roar. Mirror Coat takes prediction and the wrong time can result in Milotic as setup bait. I still stand my point that Milotic isn't as good as it used to be in Gen III; it's only a niche Pokemon this time around.

Still, if it's working out for you, by all means, go for Milotic, but take this point above into consideration.

Edit: Trick Room is best suited for doubles and VGC formats, where the fast pace there makes it more effective. In Singles, Trick Room has a tendency to get stalled out, and keeping your TR setters alive is a big priority. If you can't handle that, you may as well use a different kind of team.
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Old February 19th, 2014 (06:58 PM).
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I'll use the current team, of I find flaws like trick room and such,I will definitely consider all the above that's been given
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