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  #1    
Old January 29th, 2014 (11:23 AM).
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So, well, lol! I used to pop by here occasionally around 2 to 3 years ago? It's interesting to see how many new projects pop up in this forum. It's even more interesting, if not irksome, to see many of those old project that I remember seing just in bloom still being worked on, and not a lot of them wind up being completed.

Don't get me wrong, creating a Pokemon fangame is a big undertaking. Carefully planning out what Pokemon you are going to put where, how the overall progression of the game is going to go, and even how the story plays into it all takes a LOT of time, like way more than a couple of months if you are doing it right.

Regardless of this fact, I feel like a lot of developers here are getting over-ambitious. Not to mention because Gamefreak can flesh out stuff faster than most developers here can, a lot of people here feel the need to keep up with the Jones' by "updating" their game to the current gen. The result? You no finish gaym, mang!

This is why I wanted to present this community with the following article by Derek, the same guy who created Spelunky. It talks about strategies to both starting a game that you can feasibly finish, and to... well... finishing your game!

Linky: http://makegames.tumblr.com/post/1136623767/finishing-a-game

I personally find this to be a highly entertaining read, so I recommend everyone who wants to be an avid GAM MAKKER to take a look.

Post your thoughts in this thread! *crawls back into hole*
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  #2    
Old January 29th, 2014 (12:14 PM).
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Nice article! I've had trouble finishing personal projects in the past, so these tips might help me, maybe. It's just that,
when something that I do, that I'm not obligated to do, stops being fun, I just drop it. I agree that finishing projects
is a skill and I'd really like to hone that skill.

I started making a game (a pokemon one) in rmxp and it's been great fun so far, more or less, constantly.
My main goal, I guess, is to tell a compelling story, and the game is the medium. And I think it's a great medium,
but oftentimes, there's just too much 'non-story-telling' work in making a game, especially when you're working
alone, and I think that is the main reason why I used to quit early.

This article makes great points, and some of them made me laugh, because I recognized myself in them. Well,
anyways, I'll strive to improve this skill. Thanks for the interesting read!
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Old January 29th, 2014 (06:12 PM).
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Game Freak can flesh thing out much faster because of their large team working on various aspects to create top-notch quality
they also work for years and years at a time on projects, and announce them when they are close to finishing, so its only partly true...
most if not all games here are single party, to 5 people, because it for fun, not for money

and speaking from my own experiences, I add features I like and want to use when I play my game, not because they are from gen 6, or because people will like it, I'm making it to enjoy, not to meet a bar, or a demand.

on that note, this too is an interesting and helpful article
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Old January 29th, 2014 (08:43 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Ratty524:
Regardless of this fact, I feel like a lot of developers here are getting over-ambitious.
I hate to break it to you, but deciding to make a game, or even just a fan game on your own, is already too ambitious for the majority of people, regardless of the heaps of features they seem to want to include.

The fact of the matter is, that undertaking any kind of GD on your own is a tall order to fill. I would not say it is because people are being too ambitious with their features, just that most people don't actually have that level of devotion to begin with and it is nothing more than a cool fantasy for most.

I honestly feel that the tools available also somewhat impact the number of completed games. PE and RMXP are fine tools, don't get me wrong. But scripting for ROMS is actually super easy to figure out with little time to invest in it. It is not that way for GD because you are actually using a full fledged language without much subject related guidance.
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  #5    
Old January 30th, 2014 (10:30 AM). Edited January 30th, 2014 by Ratty524.
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Quote originally posted by ЩѻƦḽᶑʂḽдƴƹƦ™:
I hate to break it to you, but deciding to make a game, or even just a fan game on your own, is already too ambitious for the majority of people, regardless of the heaps of features they seem to want to include.

The fact of the matter is, that undertaking any kind of GD on your own is a tall order to fill. I would not say it is because people are being too ambitious with their features, just that most people don't actually have that level of devotion to begin with and it is nothing more than a cool fantasy for most.

I honestly feel that the tools available also somewhat impact the number of completed games. PE and RMXP are fine tools, don't get me wrong. But scripting for ROMS is actually super easy to figure out with little time to invest in it. It is not that way for GD because you are actually using a full fledged language without much subject related guidance.
You really hate to break that to me? I have like... 3 different game projects I'm working on right now. I'm well aware of the amount of time it takes to create a game, even short games. When I mentioned about devs getting "over-ambitious," I was mainly talking those who have no realistic sense of what they can actually achieve within a given time, and it leads to stalling out on a potentially good game release. You are right, some people don't have the level of devotion required to make a game, but then you have to ask yourself why that person who wants to jump the gun on making a game gets loses that devotion along the way? If the answer is that it takes too much time, they can cut down on the amount of bells and whistles to alleviate that to a degree, and you can still make a good game in that regard. Maybe not with Pokemon, but heck, some of the best indie games I've played were short and simple!

The point of this thread is to share and discuss strategies to finishing your game. This same article was linked in a game development community that I visit the most, and I thought I'd share it here as well, since there generally isn't a lot of useful game theory discussions that go on around here, or perhaps I'm more used to the faster-paced environment of the RPG Maker community.
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Old January 30th, 2014 (10:46 AM).
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Quote originally posted by Ratty524:
You really hate to break that to me? I have like... 3 different game projects I'm working on right now. I'm well aware of the amount of time it takes to create a game, even short games.

The point of this thread is to share and discuss strategies to finishing your game. This same article was linked in a game development community that I visit the most, and I thought I'd share it here as well, since there generally isn't a lot of useful game theory discussions that go on around here, or perhaps I'm more used to the faster-paced environment of the RPG Maker community.
... lolwut?

While I appreciate the article, it just seemed like you were the one letting yourself down for not seeing more completed games here... not the developers. I say that because it seems like you are under the impression that adding all of these features is the root of the issue that is incomplete fan games, when it just isn't. The root of the issue is simply a numbers game.

What I got out of your post was that you were "irked" that the games were still being worked on or left incomplete and abandoned. You then proceed to go on to link to an article that does not even really address the problem. All that article does is give the motivated few that you say are still working on their games, more motivation. For the large percentage of people wanting to start a game this article is, for the most part, useless to them.

If someone is not actually motivated in the first place, no book, poster, words, or article is going to teach them how to motivate themselves. Just because someone wants to start something, does not mean they are motivated. It simply means they are bored or curious.

The difference between what you linked and what Saving Raven linked is pretty evident of that fact. One is a guide to motivate the already motivated and the other is a guide to guide those without direction.

That is the dichotomy that separates those people working on games that were started when you were around before, and the people who burn out after a couple months and your OP seemed like you were considering them all to be one in the same.
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  #7    
Old March 12th, 2014 (02:24 PM).
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What I have found most effective is to keep everything in scope and to try limiting new ideas until you have what you need down first. Sure, I speculate sometimes about how I might want to extend a game but I don't make it my primary focus, and I only add "additions" like that when I have downtime due to another developer running into problems or something.
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Old March 12th, 2014 (05:16 PM).
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Quote originally posted by daigonite:
What I have found most effective is to keep everything in scope and to try limiting new ideas until you have what you need down first. Sure, I speculate sometimes about how I might want to extend a game but I don't make it my primary focus, and I only add "additions" like that when I have downtime due to another developer running into problems or something.
That's definitely a good way to go about working on your project. I particularly like following a general outline as to how my project is going to be made, and any bells & whistles would come after the main parts of the game are finished. This way, you save a lot of time by focusing on what's important to your game rather than getting stuck on one or two bonus features.
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Old March 13th, 2014 (01:20 AM).
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Quote originally posted by Ratty524:
That's definitely a good way to go about working on your project. I particularly like following a general outline as to how my project is going to be made, and any bells & whistles would come after the main parts of the game are finished. This way, you save a lot of time by focusing on what's important to your game rather than getting stuck on one or two bonus features.
This is very true, but I think you should also try to keep in mind kind of what you want for the post-game in this case.
It can be rather hard to just slap some extra content onto a finished game.
It's a lot easier to actually "make room" for it, by planning for it.

But still, you shouldn't be making the post-game before the actual game.
I just think having it planned out while making the actual game helps a lot.
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Old March 13th, 2014 (05:37 PM).
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Thanks for posting that article! I always like hearing what professional game developers have to say about their creative process, and knowing firsthand how difficult it is to create a finished product, I have to say he provided some sound advice.

In my experience, making a fangame in RMXP is a little different than making an original game from scratch because of the ability to release in-progress versions of the game as betas, and not having to worry about making mistakes so much. That's actually the biggest reason for our success, I think -- although our game isn't technically finished, there is still an 11-hour playable beta that shows off plenty of game content and is, most importantly I think, a fun experience. That's what I always like to keep in mind: Are the core mechanics fun and engaging? Is the story/visuals engrossing enough to keep the player entertained? As long as the game is playable and fun, I don't worry so much about making sure it's perfect, which honestly is a trap that a lot of games fall into.

Also I don't focus too much on gratuitous content... I'm the art director but I mostly focus on assets that have use in the game (so sprites, overworlds, HUD) rather than promotional materials like Sugimori-style art of the characters and fakemon. (Although these days, I've been spending more time working on the Wiki than on the game... oh well!)
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