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  #151    
Old August 23rd, 2014, 03:13 AM
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So, Mawilite is officially going to the Uber tier. Bring on Thundurus.
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So they did ban Mega Mawile.....
Oh joy... it seems like we are having too many Mega Evolutions getting banned to the point they won't be as fun to use anymore. But I wonder what could finally make a chance to shine in OU without the little Steel/Fairy running around.

Apparently they've got the Mega Charizards up next for suspecting. I wonder if that one's gonna get banned as well because Mega Charizard X has been quite the powerhouse.
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  #152    
Old August 23rd, 2014, 05:18 AM
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Heh, coming back to a Mega Mawile- AND Mega Charizard X-less tier is something I'm looking forward to :p
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  #153    
Old August 23rd, 2014, 10:09 AM
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  #154    
Old August 23rd, 2014, 10:45 AM
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What's next to go? Mega Venusaur? Mega Blastoise? Heck, let's ban Mega Tyranitar and everything else while we're at it! It's at the point that Pokémon are being PRE-BANNED (see Mega Salamence, and may also happen to Mega Altaria).

Banning Megas one by one leaves other Megas uncheckable and leads to the eventual banning of all Megas. The only solution: restore all Megas. Stick to banning legendaries.
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  #155    
Old August 23rd, 2014, 10:55 AM
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What's next to go? Mega Venusaur? Mega Blastoise? Heck, let's ban Mega Tyranitar and everything else while we're at it! It's at the point that Pokémon are being PRE-BANNED (see Mega Salamence, and may also happen to Mega Altaria).

Banning Megas one by one leaves other Megas uncheckable and leads to the eventual banning of all Megas. The only solution: restore all Megas. Stick to banning legendaries.
I really doubt that Mega Venusaur and/or Mega Blastoise will get banned. I think that the next most likely things to get suspect tested are Thundurus and one or both of the Mega Charizards.

Though I don't agree with the talk of wanting to ban Pokemon that haven't been officially released yet for use; let's wait and see what exactly their stat boosts are and what other metagame changes ORAS brings. A Pokemon might look really good on paper, but might not be as good in actual play.
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  #156    
Old August 23rd, 2014, 10:59 AM
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I really doubt that Mega Venusaur and/or Mega Blastoise will get banned. I think that the next most likely things to get suspect tested are Thundurus and one or both of the Mega Charizards.

Though I don't agree with the talk of wanting to ban Pokemon that haven't been officially released yet for use; let's wait and see what exactly their stat boosts are and what other metagame changes ORAS brings. A Pokemon might look really good on paper, but might not be as good in actual play.
And you never know, one of those new Megas might be the thing that brings banned Megas back because they are handled by the new Mega. But from the sounds of how Smogon works, they'll instead prefer to ban the new entry because it's "clearly" more powerful than the one they already banned.
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  #157    
Old August 23rd, 2014, 12:00 PM
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I withhold my rant; on the grounds that I don't want to invest the effort to debate this on an equal level to how strongly I disagree with everything Smogon stands for in the pokemon community as a whole (not this site, the whole Pokemon Community).

But, I will say - Cyclone, Mega Venusaur, Blastoise, and T-tar are pretty unlikely to get banned. And just banning legends isn't something I personally agree with either, since really some legends just aren't even scary to go up against. Pre-banning is one of the most inane, ridiculous, and prophetically moronic concepts I've ever heard of.

Zekrom, is it Thundorus Incarnate or Therian they're talking about banning? And ugh. Banning mega charizards... *shakes head* What they're doing, is one by one eliminating the answers to the very problems they're trying to solve, but in turn leaving other things without answers.
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  #158    
Old August 23rd, 2014, 12:12 PM
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Zekrom, is it Thundorus Incarnate or Therian they're talking about banning? And ugh. Banning mega charizards... *shakes head* What they're doing, is one by one eliminating the answers to the very problems they're trying to solve, but in turn leaving other things without answers.
Incarnate, though they haven't actually said yet what's next to be suspect tested. I just think that the most likely ones next on the list for the ban hammer (cuz you know they ain't done banning stuff yet) are Thundurus-I and Mega Zard, and Mega Zard only because the fact that two of them exist which makes you play the "which Zard is it?" game, which Smogon no likey. Neither's really all that broken by themselves.

Something I've noticed is that everything this generation that has been suspect tested has been banned. Unlike last gen when Keldeo got suspected like 5 times and was never banned lol.
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  #159    
Old August 23rd, 2014, 12:59 PM
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But, I will say - Cyclone, Mega Venusaur, Blastoise, and T-tar are pretty unlikely to get banned. And just banning legends isn't something I personally agree with either, since really some legends just aren't even scary to go up against. Pre-banning is one of the most inane, ridiculous, and prophetically moronic concepts I've ever heard of.
1. Shaymin was banned from the Battle Subway (Unova) in both Formes. But Blaziken was allowed. That tells you Gamefreak's opinion.

2. Regarding pre-banning, I agree with you. However, the discussion is there. That's one example from Facebook.
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  #160    
Old August 23rd, 2014, 01:20 PM
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My 2 cents on the whole possible Charizard X and Y suspect matter:

Charizard X and Y aren't unbeatable by any means, heck Y is extremely vulnerable to stealth rocks damage and Pokemon who carry rock moves in general and are either faster than Y or are sturdy enough to avoid getting 1 hit KOed by Y (Ex: Garchomp and Assault Vest Tyranitar).

X on the other hand gets its attack cut in half by Intimidate, and X itself can be checked and/or crippled by pokemon like Eviolite Porygon2 (Especially with Thunder Wave or Toxic), Garchomp (assuming X isn't setting up dragon dance), Rhyperior, Tyranitar, Gyarados (especially one with Thunder Wave or Rocky Helmet), Mega Gyarados, Mandibuzz, Umbreon (with foul play), Heatran, Suicune, and Multi-scale Dragonite.
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  #161    
Old August 23rd, 2014, 07:15 PM
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Something I've noticed is that everything this generation that has been suspect tested has been banned. Unlike last gen when Keldeo got suspected like 5 times and was never banned lol.
I noticed that too. I think it's because they seriously just have so many things to test due to their community pointing fingers at everything in X/Y, if they passed something up for banning, all the little smog-lings would continue to nag for another suspect test and draw it out for even longer.
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  #162    
Old August 23rd, 2014, 07:59 PM
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I withhold my rant; on the grounds that I don't want to invest the effort to debate this on an equal level to how strongly I disagree with everything Smogon stands for in the pokemon community as a whole (not this site, the whole Pokemon Community).
I understand that you're not really someone who plays according to Smogon's rules. However, what I don't understand is why you keep trying to shoot them down on every single ban decision they come up with. I mean, have you even tried playing with Smogon tiers? Honestly, what I'm seeing from is just inconspicuous rage, not meaningful criticism.
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  #163    
Old August 23rd, 2014, 08:10 PM
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I understand that you're not really someone who plays according to Smogon's rules. However, what I don't understand is why you keep trying to shoot them down on every single ban decision they come up with. I mean, have you even tried playing with Smogon tiers? Honestly, what I'm seeing from is just inconspicuous rage, not meaningful criticism.
It's not so much rage, as just disappointment - that because of their role and popularity in the entire pokemon community, their specific way of playing pokemon competitively is embraced as the way 'everyone should play'. Even though the official tournaments involve much less repetitive gameplay, what most people would call more interesting battles, and arguably more balanced play - than Smogon's rulesets and ban lists allow for.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think 'everyone should play the way I play' either. But the fact that their word has become law in competitive battling communities, is just sad (to me.) It's completely homogenized the experienced, and driven innovation, originality, and any semblance of variety in gameplay below the floorboards.

Heh, don't mind me being all bitter and spiteful towards them either, I know I'm just cranky about it. By all means it's nice that they've provided some organization for competitive pokemon, but I just see them getting worse and worse with the issues I take up with them. Such as a failure to evolve at the speed the games have. They have their way, that's fine. I just have my way, and would be remiss to not voice the fact, that there's another besides theirs.


Okay enough ranting on that from me though lol
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  #164    
Old August 23rd, 2014, 08:26 PM
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stuff

Heatran loses to EQ, Suicune is set up fodder for it and Nite loses to +1 Tough Claws Dragon Claw.



Also good, keep the mega bans coming, all of them are retarded and broken anyway, that and the entire concept of megas reeks of "jumping the shark". I honestly think "the more megas banned" the better.

Its basically like uber pokemon except packaging them in normal pokemon's body to try and woefully disguise the fact you have given them bs typing, stats, movepool and ability. Might aswell just go the whole shebang and give them all a new names. I think "Uberzard, Heracrogre, Mediquaza, Khangaskhatwo, Mawiloudon, Gengarceus" would be more fitting than "mega".
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  #165    
Old August 23rd, 2014, 09:18 PM
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It's not so much rage, as just disappointment - that because of their role and popularity in the entire pokemon community, their specific way of playing pokemon competitively is embraced as the way 'everyone should play'. Even though the official tournaments involve much less repetitive gameplay, what most people would call more interesting battles, and arguably more balanced play - than Smogon's rulesets and ban lists allow for.
Being embraced as the "way that everyone should play" isn't really Smogon's fault--blame the members. Smogon as a whole is the premier competitive Pokemon battling community because it was the first community that actually applied a competitive jive into the game. Sure, official tournaments are considered competitive in the strictest sense of the word. What Smogon did was take that up a notch and introduced a sensible way of tiering Pokemon by usage, along with suspect tests to determine a certain Pokemon's viability in the tier. In no way does Smogon force everyone to play it their way. There are other communities who basically branched off and created their own version of what basically is Smogon's tiering system.

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Don't get me wrong, I don't think 'everyone should play the way I play' either. But the fact that their word has become law in competitive battling communities, is just sad (to me.) It's completely homogenized the experienced, and driven innovation, originality, and any semblance of variety in gameplay below the floorboards.
The fact that you assume that innovation and originality is unheard of in Smogon tiers makes me question if you actually know what those words mean in Pokemon battling. Creative sets are not unheard of, after all. In fact, the higher skill level you are, the lesser you rely on Smogon's sets (though probably not as much as you would like). Lack of variety in gameplay? Double switching, prediction, critical hits, random status, etc gives you plenty of crap to worry about already that going for a no-brainer move rather than taking a risk is much, much more important than trying to be different. If you do discover something different then by all means present it--just remember that they will dissect your discovery, they'll try to weigh out the pros and cons (which is essentially what a good team builder should do, most of the time).

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Heh, don't mind me being all bitter and spiteful towards them either, I know I'm just cranky about it. By all means it's nice that they've provided some organization for competitive pokemon, but I just see them getting worse and worse with the issues I take up with them. Such as a failure to evolve at the speed the games have. They have their way, that's fine. I just have my way, and would be remiss to not voice the fact, that there's another besides theirs.
Being bitter and spiteful towards something affects your overall judgement on said something. Centralization is a major problem in all Pokemon tiers, rulings, and what have you. It's much more noticeable in Smogon's tiers because the players notice it and try to do something about it (either bu abusing it or getting the council to suspect test it). I appreciate the way you voice your opinion however, the fact that you mentioned that you're bitter and spiteful towards them leaves me questioning whether or not I should acknowledge it. I'd like to point out that there are other ways to play, but people are apparently too ignorant to notice them. It's not Smogon's fault that their way of playing is very popular, it's the public's apparent ignorance.
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  #166    
Old August 23rd, 2014, 09:51 PM
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I agree, and I apologize for what will undoubtedly be my continued repetition of this sentiment as long as I'm on PC haha. And you don't have to acknowledge, accept, or even sympathize with my viewpoint; I'm aware it's unpopular especially with large pokemon-based communities on the internet, and don't expect that to change anytime soon. It is what it is; and all I can do is fight the small battles person by person, so as to keep my complaining from being whining, by reason of doing nothing to help the situation I'm dissatisfied with.

A good friend once equated me to a grumpy old man sitting on a porch with a shotgun yelling at passersby; "Keep yer' Scizor-Garchomp-Greninja-Talonflame-Wash Rotom-Aegislash team off my lawnnnyeehhhh"

But anyways

Mega Mawile Ban

I'm not really against that, so there's some common ground whoop
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  #167    
Old August 23rd, 2014, 11:40 PM
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What's next to go? Mega Venusaur? Mega Blastoise? Heck, let's ban Mega Tyranitar and everything else while we're at it! It's at the point that Pokémon are being PRE-BANNED (see Mega Salamence, and may also happen to Mega Altaria).

Banning Megas one by one leaves other Megas uncheckable and leads to the eventual banning of all Megas. The only solution: restore all Megas. Stick to banning legendaries.
Wanted to single this post out because we see this fallacy-ridden argument every time something gets banned. (The fallacy is the slippery slope, if you're wondering.) No, Mega Blastoise won't get banned, because it sucks. Mega Blastoise doesn't have an effective base 259 attack, priority, amazing defensive typing, Intimidate, strong (if unreliable) priority, just enough coverage options to choose its counters, and one of the best boosting attacks in the game in Swords Dance. (It's funny how all of the Pokemon people list in these angry "and next thing you know they'll ban _____!" are never touched by the suspect process lol.) But yes, there will be other things to go and they're probably going to be broken. What's frustrating about posts like these is that they're using the suspect as a pretense to rant against Smogon instead of taking the tests at face value. How do I know you're not taking these suspects at face value?

"Restore all megas." Hmm, have you ever played against Mega Lucario? How about Mega Gengar? Oh, the same Mega Gengar that is the best Pokemon in the Uber tier? Luckily, OU tiering policy is controlled by people who want a playable metagame instead of people who want to "restore all megas" because, uhhh, some baseless platitudes about Smogon being ban-happy that aren't actually based in any experience playing OU except *maybe* the lower ladder.


... @the bit about Smogon being the origin of homogenized/generic play: Zeffers kinda covered this but I find it interesting that people who make this claim are the same people who are arguing for one of the most centralizing forces in OU to stay unbanned. People might have more room for creativity/innovation (which happens even in stale metagames, but whatever) if they didn't have to bend over backwards to over getting shredded by obviously broken mons...like Mega Mawile. :/

edit: also @zard-x i actually don't think he's broken on his own though i think that dual mega zards is definitely not so good (probs broken) and there's really no way to fix this except banning the better of the two of them which is definitely x. don't feel as great about this suspect though. kinda wish thund would get suspected next as i think that, besides being broken, it encourages lazy team-building (priority t-wave as a sweeper failsafe) that allows cookie cutter hyper offense a much easier time functioning (against stuff like char-x, as well as megatar, gyarados, really most sweepers except rush exca and like uhhh cm raikou lol) and its banning would do the most i think toward balancing the metagame. i think guess-zard needs a defanging and then we can talk about land though these cases are much more borderline than thund and esp. mega maw lol. mega pinsir is kinda br000ken tho lol
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  #168    
Old August 24th, 2014, 12:35 AM
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Heh forgive me but I've exhausted my emotional investment on explaining my discontent for Smogon for tonight. I'll just leave this for now saying, why not just stick with the Fifth gen meta game play, instead of banning 90% of what's new with 6th gen's to retro-fit it to what you're already used to? (referring to them, not you in particular Anti.)
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  #169    
Old August 24th, 2014, 12:49 AM
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The Gen V meta was terrible. I didn't participate much in that, aside from NU. If we're going back gens, I'd rather play Gen IV or older.
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  #170    
Old August 24th, 2014, 03:23 AM
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The Gen V meta was terrible. I didn't participate much in that, aside from NU. If we're going back gens, I'd rather play Gen IV or older.
The Gen V meta wasn't absolutely awful, but it would've been loads better if Smogon did something about perma-weather. It was ****ing ridiculous last gen that almost every OU and Ubers team was a weather team, and at least half of those were rain teams. The thing I've always found strange about that (and SR) is that people often say that overcentralization is a bad thing (which it is), but then we had a weather-centric metagame that never had anything done to it. You don't really get more overcentralized than the weather meta of Gen V. I was so glad that Game Freak nerfed weather this generation.
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  #171    
Old August 24th, 2014, 03:56 AM
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The Gen V meta wasn't absolutely awful, but it would've been loads better if Smogon did something about perma-weather. It was ****ing ridiculous last gen that almost every OU and Ubers team was a weather team, and at least half of those were rain teams. The thing I've always found strange about that (and SR) is that people often say that overcentralization is a bad thing (which it is), but then we had a weather-centric metagame that never had anything done to it. You don't really get more overcentralized than the weather meta of Gen V. I was so glad that Game Freak nerfed weather this generation.
They can't do anything about perma-weather because they can't (or rather, shouldn't) change actual game mechanics. They either had to ban it (which UU later did, iirc) or think of something else. One idea they came up with was banning the use of Drizzle and Swift Swim on the same team. I can't remember how much it affected the OU metagame though.
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  #172    
Old August 24th, 2014, 04:03 AM
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They can't do anything about perma-weather because they can't (or rather, shouldn't) change actual game mechanics. They either had to ban it (which UU later did, iirc) or think of something else. One idea they came up with was banning the use of Drizzle and Swift Swim on the same team. I can't remember how much it affected the OU metagame though.
Yeah, I know that they can't change game mechanics, but it was still annoying as hell, especially because it seemed to me like so few people wanted to do anything about it at the time.
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  #173    
Old August 24th, 2014, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Anti View Post
Wanted to single this post out because we see this fallacy-ridden argument every time something gets banned. (The fallacy is the slippery slope, if you're wondering.) No, Mega Blastoise won't get banned, because it sucks. Mega Blastoise doesn't have an effective base 259 attack, priority, amazing defensive typing, Intimidate, strong (if unreliable) priority, just enough coverage options to choose its counters, and one of the best boosting attacks in the game in Swords Dance. (It's funny how all of the Pokemon people list in these angry "and next thing you know they'll ban _____!" are never touched by the suspect process lol.) But yes, there will be other things to go and they're probably going to be broken. What's frustrating about posts like these is that they're using the suspect as a pretense to rant against Smogon instead of taking the tests at face value. How do I know you're not taking these suspects at face value?

"Restore all megas." Hmm, have you ever played against Mega Lucario? How about Mega Gengar? Oh, the same Mega Gengar that is the best Pokemon in the Uber tier? Luckily, OU tiering policy is controlled by people who want a playable metagame instead of people who want to "restore all megas" because, uhhh, some baseless platitudes about Smogon being ban-happy that aren't actually based in any experience playing OU except *maybe* the lower ladder.


... @the bit about Smogon being the origin of homogenized/generic play: Zeffers kinda covered this but I find it interesting that people who make this claim are the same people who are arguing for one of the most centralizing forces in OU to stay unbanned. People might have more room for creativity/innovation (which happens even in stale metagames, but whatever) if they didn't have to bend over backwards to over getting shredded by obviously broken mons...like Mega Mawile. :/

edit: also @zard-x i actually don't think he's broken on his own though i think that dual mega zards is definitely not so good (probs broken) and there's really no way to fix this except banning the better of the two of them which is definitely x. don't feel as great about this suspect though. kinda wish thund would get suspected next as i think that, besides being broken, it encourages lazy team-building (priority t-wave as a sweeper failsafe) that allows cookie cutter hyper offense a much easier time functioning (against stuff like char-x, as well as megatar, gyarados, really most sweepers except rush exca and like uhhh cm raikou lol) and its banning would do the most i think toward balancing the metagame. i think guess-zard needs a defanging and then we can talk about land though these cases are much more borderline than thund and esp. mega maw lol. mega pinsir is kinda br000ken tho lol
I'm not going to put in the emotional time and energy to respond to this point by point, but I'll point out some facts:

- There are 26 Mega Stones in X/Y (including Blazikenite).
- There are 7 Mega Stones that are banned at Smogon (including Blazikenite, but Blaziken itself is already banned).
- That is over 1/4 of the Mega Stones in the game.

The next time Mega something is suspect-tested for possible banning, consider what among the seven banned Megas might be able to beat it if it were not banned. Also consider with OR/AS and new Megas coming that they need to consider unbanning and retesting all Megas as the new ones may balance them out. Yes, the best way to test everything new is by unbanning everything already banned and retesting. But that's in three months from now.

And there's my opinion on that.
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  #174    
Old August 24th, 2014, 10:37 AM
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Anti
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclone View Post
I'm not going to put in the emotional time and energy to respond to this point by point, but I'll point out some facts:

- There are 26 Mega Stones in X/Y (including Blazikenite).
- There are 7 Mega Stones that are banned at Smogon (including Blazikenite, but Blaziken itself is already banned).
- That is over 1/4 of the Mega Stones in the game.

The next time Mega something is suspect-tested for possible banning, consider what among the seven banned Megas might be able to beat it if it were not banned. Also consider with OR/AS and new Megas coming that they need to consider unbanning and retesting all Megas as the new ones may balance them out. Yes, the best way to test everything new is by unbanning everything already banned and retesting. But that's in three months from now.

And there's my opinion on that.
No one wants a metagame where broken mons kinda-sorta balance out other broken mons. Even if we did, just look at what megas are banned:

Kangaskhan, Gengar, Lucario, Blaziken, Mewtwo X, Mewtwo Y, Mawile

Mewtwo's base form is Uber so its mega evolutions obviously are. Mega Gengar was quickbanned it was so broken and is/was getting tested in Ubers. None of the other megas (even Mewtwo's) stop it from doing its job since it's a trapper. And since it was the first of these except Blaziken to go, I think we can safety assume that Lucario, Mawile, etc. did NOT balance it out. Mega Blaziken destroys all of those mons too: its STABs are all it needs to rip up Lucario (whose priority moves aren't coming close to KOing Blaziken), Mawile, and Kanga. Which might have been why it was quickbanned. Kanga was also quickbanned because it's pretty much impossible to stop with running a few specialized counters. Mawile and Lucario evidently weren't even enough to get it a suspect test though both actually pose it some problems in theory. Lucario was not at all kept in check by these other mons since it blew past Maw and even Kanga if it was running NP Vacuum Wave or whatever, but yeah, its suspect vote wasn't really close for a reason. As for Mawile, I'll just ask you this: given the extreme brokenness of the aforementioned mons, would you rather have them around to keep Mawile in check, or ban them all so the meta isn't unplayable? You can say "well they can just balance each other out" but I've just demonstrated that they do nothing of the sort. Certainly not without Mega Gengar who is somehow more broken than other Uber mons.

I see no reason to protect the concept of mega evolutions. If they're warping the metagame, they need to go. If not, they won't. Again, this is why I'm glad actual players are deciding these things instead of these principled arguments (which always seem to come without any actual justification besides "it's just my opinion" )...

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

And yeah the bit from the other post about "why not just play BW?" is sort of what I mean, as that point is simply failing to understand the goal of suspect testing. It's not to try to emulate old metagames. (The new weather mechanics make that impossible anyway.) Rather, its goal is to create a balanced metagame from the hand Gamefreak gives us, which is unique every generation because of new mons and mechanic changes. If the hand we're given is unbalanced, we're not just going to be like "oh hey, we could play this steaming pile of crap, or just go play BW." We're going to try to make the meta work by banning obviously broken thing and suspecting more borderline cases. (It would be a travesty if something like Aeg or Zard-X got a quickban instead of a test, for example.) And if that logic had been used in BW ("just go play gen4 if you want a playable meta"), Drizzle/Swift Swim would dominate the entire tier and upon the release of XY, people would have to go back two gens to play a meta that isn't garbage. So it's not about "failure to adapt" or wanting what we're used to, it's very much about making the best of the hand we're dealt. No one wants BW again. Or DPP or Advance. What we want is this unique generation to be fun in its own way. That can't happen if we're stubbornly refusing to ban Mega freaking Gengar because, well, I don't know. I still haven't heard a justification for that idea. (Usually it's just decrying the people banning things. Which might sound okay if the alternative wasn't totally indefensible.)
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  #175    
Old August 24th, 2014, 11:14 AM
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Cyclone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anti View Post
No one wants a metagame where broken mons kinda-sorta balance out other broken mons. Even if we did, just look at what megas are banned:

Kangaskhan, Gengar, Lucario, Blaziken, Mewtwo X, Mewtwo Y, Mawile
Without reading your analysis (I did, but it's irrelevant to my opinion), I can say that Mewtwo is already banned, so yes, that is gone. Blaziken I always questioned; sure, it's strong, but it's the same type of Pokémon as Infernape and Emboar; why exactly is it banned? Lucario: please, just give it some Psychic and it doesn't have a chance; plus I have been outsped with Mega Lucario numerous times. Gengar: yes, it had to go, that was a bad ability selection on Nintendo's part that broke it. Kangaskhan; I will consent that I have not really used this one yet, but have a 6IV one to try using in the maingame in places like the Battle Maison and Battle Test, so I will see (maybe with a Pachirisu *snicker*). And I have yet to have one strong battle with Mawile; I've actually swapped it out for other Megas in my party. Maybe it doesn't fit my style.

So based on my own experience, I cannot see bans for Mega Mawile and Mega Lucario, and though I've seen a video, don't have enough experience with Kangaskhan to call that one. But if you want to discuss banning something, let's just bring up Slurpuff. No, seriously. I was linked this video. Maybe it's hacked and not able to be replicated, but it IS a sweep. Which seems to be the criteria for banning something these days. TE5W-WWWW-WWW9-7GFP

Quote:
I see no reason to protect the concept of mega evolutions. If they're warping the metagame, they need to go. If not, they won't. Again, this is why I'm glad actual players are deciding these things instead of these principled arguments (which always seem to come without any actual justification besides "it's just my opinion" )...
Sorry, but they are also the opinions of actual players, which literally does make it just their opinion based on the Smogon-approved movesets. Someone using a different set clearly doesn't have as easy a time, and GOOD players can innovate a strategy that is NOT approved by Smogon and take the Mega by surprise. As I said, those two bans I mentioned should not be there. The other five, maybe. Tornadus and Thundurus meanwhile should already be in ubers; I argue all legendaries should be. (Even you, Shaymin.)

But "that's just my opinion".
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