There should really be a Music section under the Create & Discover subforum.

I know I'm new to the forums and all and I hope I'm not overstepping my boundaries, but as the title implies, there should really be a Music section somewhere in this forums. Now, the title has sorta explained where I believe the Music section should go, but it's not my call; I don't own or manage this website. But I do have a couple ideas for some subsection within the Music section.

• A section for covers, arrangements and remixes of various Pokemon tracks and songs done by members here at the forums.
• A section for original compositions for ROM hacks or that use soundfonts from the Pokemon games. This could tie in with the ROM hacking section and ROM hackers could ask people here for permission to use tracks from this section in their games.
• A section for general music discussion on songs/tracks and motifs from the game. We could have members make subsection for a specific games, generation or list their favorite route/town/vs. theme or rendition of the original pokemon theme. The anime can be included in this as well.
• A section for discussion of other remixes, covers and arrangements found on other sites, like Soundcloud, Youtube or OCremix.
• A section for WIPs and critique. Pretty self-explanatory. The first section will have critiques as well, but this section will focus on constructive criticism.

Now, I think it's worth mentioning that sites that are entirely devoted to Music in Pokemon, or PokeMusic, exist. However, the two main ones, PokeMusicVerse and FanmadePokemon, have been inactive for years (I implore you to search them up, as I can't post links yet). This site, however, is very active and I think this would be a great addition to this site. Without it, an entire group of creative people are excluded from this website. Or maybe that's not the case and they don't particularly care. However, I care deeply about this topic and I would love to see it come into fruition. I only ask that if this does become a thing, that I ge to be thr subforums main moderator, if that's at all possible. If not, I don't particularly care. Being the moderator is not my intention, making the Music section a part of the forums is.

I'll post here what I said when this question was posed in A&D:

Kirby said:

This was considered, but hstaff agreed it's more reasonable to place user created music in General Entertainment. It's one of those things where, yes, it's user created content and should for all intents and purposes go in the "Create & Discover" area, but it doesn't belong in A&D, FF&W, or RP and it's not big enough to have its own section, so it's staying where music in general is more relevant to the forum and can get the most attention. User created music might just shrivel and die out here, at least in GE it has a chance since more music lovers might see it! I see what you're saying though and yes that was brought up for continuity's sake, but I don't think this is a change we'll see. :< Sorry.

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Oh, that's a shame really. I originally joined this forum in order to contribute my music and speak with other music makers. I was just surprised that there was a Art section of the forums and no Music section. Either way, I'll probably contribute to both sections and I probably should've done my research before running my mouth. Thanks for clarifying!

I don't see why we couldn't have a test run with a sub section to see how things go. If things don't pan out well then we can just put it in the General Entertainment section again. Though if people don't post in the first place it won't get noticed and nothing will be done about because no one will know. Yes your threads will get pushed down but that can't even happen if you don't post. You post and then keep it update say on a weekly basis.

Yeah, I agree with you 100%. I came from 2 other music website devoted to pokemon. They are PokeMusicVerse and Pokemon Zone and if you've heard of them or if you clicked the links you'll see that they haven't been active in years. I assume that the reason may be a mixture of the fact that Pokémon music shifted from using MIDIs to Mp3s and the release of Undertale, which everyone in music is doing something with. Either way, I joined this forum website in order to contribute my own pokemon remixes because I have a bunch of MIDIS for the Gen 3-5 games and the original Pokémon Mystery Dungeon, so I've been trying to do somewhat original remixes and covers. I needed some feedback on what I've done (mainly to check if my timbre and feel is appropriate for the song I'm covering and if I've chosen the correct instrument for the track I chose to cover) so I decided to search for other Pokemon fans who share my passion. Apparently this isn't the website for that. I'll still check back on the website and contribute when I can, but I'll be heading elsewhere, to a more active pokemusic site. I wish you all a good day.

I fully support and agree to the idea of a subforum dedicated to music specifically. I honestly don't see at this point, why it hasn't already been created.

To lump music in with various other forms of media is a little bit downgrading to be honest. Music is such a huge and varied field of existence that spans across so many different topics, emotions, beliefs and cultures. It brings people together and helps people to find like minded individuals faster than most other creative mediums out there due to the sheer scope of its influence. Music can be appreciated by anyone from anywhere and that's something that gives it, in my opinion, a bit more importance than some other topics.

As has been mentioned already by Kase and Johnny, the pokémon community in particular is linked to music in a very big way. Remixes and fan creations alike are huge out there and always get overwhelming support if they're up to par. However that facet of the community isn't represented here at all really, apart from a few threads in General Entertainment that I'm pretty sure many users don't see and thus don't give much attention to. (I'll admit myself to be honest, that GE is too swamped down by its various topics to attract my attention at all, despite my own personal love for music.)

Music creation by various artists on the site... discussion of the various aspects and meaning of music... groups of people getting together to give their opinions on a particular band or song in a thread... there are tonnes of different topics to be discussed in relation to music... and I also think that if word of such a thing being potentially created was spread on a larger scale to the community then support would grow rather quickly.

So to put it plainly, 100% support for this. I give it every ounce of positive support that i can and I highly encourage and desire it. It's baffling to me that this isn't already implemented considering how vastly important music is.

The only thing in life, after all, that brings me as much daily enrichment as music is writing. Writing has two dedicated sections. Music has none. Baffling.

flight said:

This is the music forum.

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Lol, let's be real now, GE is no music forum.

Kirby said:

I'll post here what I said when this question was posed in A&D:
Originally Posted by Kirby
This was considered, but hstaff agreed it's more reasonable to place user created music in General Entertainment. It's one of those things where, yes, it's user created content and should for all intents and purposes go in the "Create & Discover" area, but it doesn't belong in A&D, FF&W, or RP and it's not big enough to have its own section, so it's staying where music in general is more relevant to the forum and can get the most attention. User created music might just shrivel and die out here, at least in GE it has a chance since more music lovers might see it! I see what you're saying though and yes that was brought up for continuity's sake, but I don't think this is a change we'll see. :< Sorry.

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Yes but the OP wasn't talking about moving music to an already existing section, they were talking about music having it's ownsection where it would be very visible as music, compared to sitting in GE where really, it's not thought about as a "music section". It's a "General Entertainment" section, which is exactly what it was designed for. Films, media, books and so on. Music, in my opinion doesn't fit that category very well, aside from pop-charts, but so far there has been no better place for music than GE. If there was a section solely devoted to music, it would have, in my opinion, a LOT of potential to be a rather active section with many great talents being spotted and able to talk openly to one another about everything to do with music.

This means not just discussing which songs sound good this week, this means talking about various makes of violin, and which is best for comfort. Or which synth sounds best remixing a certain Pokémon track. Or perhaps finding the right combination of chords on guitar to nail that song someone has been practising. Music has such a big topic range, that lack of threads and discussion wouldn't be a problem. I know the member-base is there to support and make a music section active and a great addition to PC.

A music section could, like A&D does, also support ROM Hacking in that music designers could create tracks in the styles of various Pokémon games, for use within Hacks, open-source. It would be a PC-based resource for music, and then suddenly we have cross-forum support. Of course, I don't know how well music is discussed and developed in ROM Hacking, but I think giving music its own section could feed that development and help it grow into something really cool, and a great asset to PC.


TL;DR: Music section > secluding music where it is in GE.

EDIT: Also, just saying, asking to be a mod gets you nothing other than an emblem 8)

Well, anything I would have said has been said at least once already, so I just want to give my support to this. As someone who does like to create music, there is almost no chance I would put it in the GE section, simply because it doesn't seem like it would fit, like that's the place where it should go. I do think that there should be a more dedicated music section, even just as a test, and let it go for a few months, see what happens. If its a success, then great! If not, its not difficult to get rid of it.

This stuff probably should be edited in to the initial response, but I honestly don't care. Im too lazy to check the forums rules on double posting. Anyway, music stuff here is mainly about disscussion of your favorite track and not sharing and critique of users' music. There's nothing on music theory and I rarely see something on your favorite track of a given game. While art, writing and programming are major parts of any pokemon game, the music is equally important. Unlike the art, writing and programming, the music is more accessible to a general public. I can't tell you how many games I've gotten into because of the music alone and how many times I've continued to play a game strictly becasue the music was good. I'm a visual artist as well and I plan on going into game design and I can't tell you how much it pains me to see an entire section of game design missing.

Elektra Heart said:

I could see a sub-forum happening if you can get enough supporters, but it's own forum? No, there just isn't enough need for it. You can't make a new forum for only a few people. I actually think it would fit in nicely as an A&D sub-forum or GE. Maybe if the community in that sub-forum grows, it'll get big enough to become it's own forum.

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That's what I was implying with my first post. I simply thought that if a music section does come into fruition, ot should be under the Create & Discover subforum. Giving music its own forum is a bit much and wouldn't work. But a subsection with several threads within it like the ones in my original post, that's much more sensible.

To go off of what Circuit and Deceptio have said, music as of right now is being stifled in the General Entertainment section. And I said before, most of the stuff seems to be by music lovers, not music makers, which is what I really wish this website would cater to.

And, like I said initially and what circuit and I believe Deceptio restated, ROM hacking and music could work hand iin hand. Same with art and music. ROM hacks already use custom art and sprites, why not use custom music like covers and remixes to add your own personality and avoid copyright infringement. And with animations and speedpaints, artists could contact musicians and music makers in order to use and promote their work. Both parties gain from this.

circuit said:

EDIT: Also, just saying, asking to be a mod gets you nothing other than an emblem 8)

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Is that a bad thing or a good thing? I'm not new to forums in general, but I am fairly new to how this forum works. I really think I was overstepping my boundaries with that one.

GE was also the home of the previous music composition thread, but there was next to no interest and so it floated to oblivion.

Or so I seem to remember.

flight said:

Um, it is? It's literally 90% music discussion, 10% every other media. Havent you noticed that?

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Yes and that very much supports our point.

Music is clearly popular, it dominates that forum and yet serious posts regarding the topic fall flat on their face and peter out quickly from what I've seen. Multiple music enthusiasts don't post there because they don't feel like the forum is very oriented to the kind of discussions they like to have.

So that's a bunch of people in GE who love music... a bunch of people outside of GE that love music... and both groups of people want to post about music on this forum.

So by removing this music-centric demographic and merging it with those looking for a place to go, suddenly we have quite a large number of people willing to use a music forum. As well as this the 10% of other media gets a grander chance at the spotlight and can be discussed more often, emaning the General aspect of GE comes more to the forefront rather than it being the "90% music and 10% everything else forum".

Can someone remind me why music remaining as a small potion of GE is a good idea? Because at the moment I don't see it.

I want a little clarification here: are we talking about a section for specifically Pokemon music created by users, music in general (and not so much Pokemon) created by users, or both? Because I'm not sure which it is y'all want. If it's the first one, it could start off as a subsection of Pokemon General, and if it's the second (or 3rd), it could either be a subsection of General Entertainment or be it's own section under Creative Discussions.

I don't see any reason not to have this though......IF there truly is enough support for it (sorry, but a few people saying that they want it and claiming that there is enough support for it is not terribly convincing to me, particularly after Mana's post). It'd basically be like how the Underground started.

flight said:

Um, it is? It's literally 90% music discussion, 10% every other media. Havent you noticed that?

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You're being a bit hyperbolic there. It's maybe like 50-60% music and whatever percentage is left is devoted to everything else. And either way, most of it is just general discussion on music and none of it seems to pertain to Pokémon music. That's what I really want. A fairly active place for dicussion, sharing and creation of Pokémon music. I believe this forum can host that. If not, well, at least we tried.

Mana said:

GE was also the home of the previous music composition thread, but there was next to no interest and so it floated to oblivion.

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Odd, because there seems to be a good amount of interested folks in this thread. Either way, I can thinknof plenty of ways to rally people into making their own music. Making music is actually not that hard. I find that it takes a lot of determination and experimentation, as well as good old experience. Tools are needed as well, but you can easily find those online.

Actually, if this is the thread I was thinking of, it was bumped back up in November. As you can see, the thread is almost two years old and only just in to three pages worth of posts. If that thread could be boosted in activity, then we'd see the real potential behind this idea.

Also I'd argue that "90% of GE is music" is a reason not to take the music element out. That would gut most of the forum and kill it off ;-;.

flight said:

Um, it is? It's literally 90% music discussion, 10% every other media. Havent you noticed that?

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That's the point. GE is not a music forum, yet all of the music related content sits there with no real development. Furthermore, real in-depth music-based topics can't really be brought up without festering beneath all the generic pop-culture that will be discussed as is GE. GE suggests the entertainment side of music, which is a very small part of what music is. As such, my point still stands, GE is no music section.

Kase377 said:

Is that a bad thing or a good thing? I'm not new to forums in general, but I am fairly new to how this forum works. I really think I was overstepping my boundaries with that one.

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Heh, it's amusing, but just know that asking for it doesn't really put you in any good light ;)

Mana said:

GE was also the home of the previous music composition thread, but there was next to no interest and so it floated to oblivion.

Or so I seem to remember.

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To be honest, unless I saw "Music Composition" on the "latest posted-in" when scrolling the main page, I would never have thought music composition even existed in GE. And apparently this is the same for many members asides from myself. Given an actual section, these kinds of music related topic wont go unseen, And will give a place for all the musically interested people a place to gather, discuss and share.

EDIT: Also @Mana, if GE is 90% music, then it's not really GE either is it? General Entertainment seems to suggest discussing everything that is to do with pop-culture, trends and media. If it is "90% music" then that's not really a GE section either. It's a music section without the label, and hence kinda festers with lacking music topics and little else. Of course, that's a little hyperbolic to say 90%, and I do feel that removing music as a topic would open the window to other discussion more relevant to General Entertainment.

Nah said:

I want a little clarification here: are we talking about a section for specifically Pokemon music created by users, music in general (and not so much Pokemon) created by users, or both? Because I'm not sure which it is y'all want. If it's the first one, it could start off as a subsection of Pokemon General, and if it's the second (or 3rd), it could either be a subsection of General Entertainment or be it's own section under Creative Discussions.

I don't see any reason not to have this though......IF there truly is enough support for it (sorry, but a few people saying that they want it and claiming that there is enough support for it is not terribly convincing to me, particularly after Mana's post). It'd basically be like how the Underground started.

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In my opinion, I see the entire section being both, kinda like how A&D is now. You have Pokémon-related, non-Pokémon-related and ROM Hacking resources. I don't see why this couldn't work in a music section too, perhaps even with more interest than A&D since music is something everyone can really enjoy and get into, regardless of whether they produce it or not.

circuit said:

In my opinion, I see the entire section being both, kinda like how A&D is now. You have Pokémon-related, non-Pokémon-related and ROM Hacking resources. I don't see why this couldn't work in a music section too, perhaps even with more interest than A&D since music is something everyone can really enjoy and get into, regardless of whether they produce it or not.

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Yeah that makes more sense to me really, doing it that way and having both.

It's just hard for me to tell since Kase seems to want a specifically Pokemon music section, while like Johnny and Deceptio seem to want a more non-Pokemon specific music section.

Mana said:

Also I'd argue that "90% of GE is music" is a reason not to take the music element out. That would gut most of the forum and kill it off ;-;.

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I don't think we'd have to worry about this new music section killing off GE. GE's music portion has pretty much always been about discussing music made by non-PC users, while this new music section would be specifically for user-created music. Neither section would really take away any activity from the other, if you make that distinction clear.

JohnnyMustang said:

The only way to know for sure if this will work is by trying. And as I said before; there's nothing to lose but too much to win.

I'm pretty sure that no one would've thought that the Underground would have the popularity it has now.

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The Underground had a lot of support and popularity from pretty much the moment it was suggested though, which is why it was accepted and created so quickly.

I'm also just not a fan of just trying shit without good reason to do so.

JohnnyMustang said:

How many people is exactly "a lot of support" ? :)

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man idk just more than those who've posted in here so far

You don't think there are good reasons to create a music section? I think there are many :P

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I'm not against having this music section, I just don't think we should do it if there isn't enough support for it/until we know if there's enough support for it. Otherwise you go through all the trouble of making this new section that then quickly becomes a big waste of space because you jumped the gun and created it without really knowing if there was a reasonable chance for success or not.

@Johnny/everyone. The activity might be here in the four/five people posting, but whether there is enough support in the general community to support an entire section, let alone a subsection is yet to be seen.

However, there's a good way to test it all and to drum up more support. It's really what should be being done. The UG had a lot of support but there were already successful mafia games going on, drawing in a lot of players. That's the key difference here - you need to gather the musicians first and prove there's a case.

> Post more instrument/composition/technical music threads in GE.
> Get them Buzzed and ask maccrash to put up a Bulletin Board announcement (loud and clear what's going on, people will know).
> See how things progress from there.

Remember, GE absorbed a lot of the hobbies threads from the old fangroups section. Think of your threads as music-related hobbies threads and don't limit what you post by worrying about if its technically entertainment or not.

Personally I think a blossoming music forum would be awesome! But lets not get ahead of ourselves and set it up for failure, the idea needs to be seeded and built on for a while.

It seems like it isn't clear where to share other media like music. I think before attempting anything major like making a new forum, it'd be best to clarify to the community that GE is the place for this content and look at the results from that. GE could be renamed to something like "Entertainment & Creation of Media" (a little wordy lol). Advertise the creation aspect of it on the Bulletin Board to get the word out. If enough activity comes out of media showcase sticky and other threads, make a forum for music creation.

Sounds like a good course of action imo. Whilst I'm definitely for the forum and do see how it could benefit PC, I do also agree that this needs to go slow, and needs to be built up. So starting by building interest and attention in GE is definitely the way to go.