Smogon and the Pokemon Metagame

iAzire said:

Well it's like you just mentioned, Haze isn't only for Evasion Pokémon/Teams. It actually has use against Pokémon that boost ANYTHING!! So it's not dead weight. One move slot and when is the last time you saw a team without a single booster?

Why isn't evasion allowed? Oh that's right!! It is in my eyes!! Granted I never use it like I never use Mega Kanga or Mega Gar but I don't tend to follow Smogon rules. Just cause I don't follow their rules doesn't mean I go out and make the most Uber hax team ever.

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The reason why Blaziken got banned (again) is because it had the raw power to back up its steadily increasing Speed in battle. It forces switches easily and can find opportunities to set up Swords Dance. Once Talonflame and Azumarill were eliminated Blaziken was free to wreak havoc. Its Mega Evolution cranks it up a notch by giving it more Speed and power.

PlatinumDude said:

The reason why Blaziken got banned (again) is because it had the raw power to back up its steadily increasing Speed in battle. It forces switches easily and can find opportunities to set up Swords Dance. Once Talonflame and Azumarill were eliminated Blaziken was free to wreak havoc. Its Mega Evolution cranks it up a notch by giving it more Speed and power.

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Blaziken can be beaten. It's weak to common attack types. Off the top of my head it's weak to Flying, Psychic, Water, Ground and neutral to Fairy due the secondary Fighting typing getting rid of the resistance provided by the Fire typing.

I'm curious as to how many people actually played against Blaziken before it's almost immediate ban. I understand how Mega Kangaskhan can cause problems, Mega Gengar is hacked as all hell. With a Kyurem-W SAtk and monstrous Spe. Shadow Tag + Perish Song + Destiny Bond is insane. You add STAB Shadow Ball off 170 SAtk, okay it's completely overpowered. Blaziken? Easy enough to counter. Even on a full Baton Pass team I would much rather use Scolipede.

iAzire said:

Blaziken can be beaten. It's weak to common attack types. Off the top of my head it's weak to Flying, Psychic, Water, Ground and neutral to Fairy due the secondary Fighting typing getting rid of the resistance provided by the Fire typing.

I'm curious as to how many people actually played against Blaziken before it's almost immediate ban. I understand how Mega Kangaskhan can cause problems, Mega Gengar is hacked as all hell. With a Kyurem-W SAtk and monstrous Spe. Shadow Tag + Perish Song + Destiny Bond is insane. You add STAB Shadow Ball off 170 SAtk, okay it's completely overpowered. Blaziken? Easy enough to counter. Even on a full Baton Pass team I would much rather use Scolipede.

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Blaziken is banned because it can be incredibly difficult to kill once it has set up. Or at least Mega Blaziken, anyway. Speed Boost makes it impossible to revenge kill it without priority since nothing can outspeed it after a few boosts, and with a Swords Dance boost has the power to crush most OU pokes. The ones that can take a +2 STAB Hi Jump Kick or Flare Blitz are usually either severely damaged or unable to KO it back, with a few exceptions.

Though I'm not sure why people complain when something's banned. There's plenty of other pokes to use, and if you wanna use the banned poke, battle in Ubers.

And Evasion Clause exists to remove another luck-based factor from competitive battles. There's enough luck based crap in Pokemnon already; lets not turn competitive battles into a fancy version of gambling. If I wanna gamble, I'll go to the nearest casino and play craps or roulette or something.

Another luck based factor? The fact that you have to say ANOTHER is the point. People are lazy and don't feel like dealing with an overall terrible strategy. I probably wouldn't feel so strongly about it if Evasion weren't such a terrible strategy. It is so ridiculously easy to beat it's stupid. It's like banning Pikachu with Light Ball. What would be the point?

Smogon is so blinded by their move sets to counter this Pokémon and that. People don't want the accuracy of the already terribly inaccurate Focus Blast to be put into jeopardy. One evasion boost does what? Turns a regular attack into Focus Blast?

What about attacks that never miss? Haze. I can't keep repeating Haze. It has good distribution and it's just like running Defog. Oh you don't want to get rid of your boosts to combat the opponent?

It is laziness to adapt to a new Meta and fear of having to learn new strategies. People are stuck in their ways.

Why don't we see just how much usage Mega Kangaskhan, Mega Gengar and evasion get in VGC. I'm assuming evasion won't see much use because it's a terrible strategy.

iAzire said:

Another luck based factor? The fact that you have to say ANOTHER is the point. People are lazy and don't feel like dealing with an overall terrible strategy. I probably wouldn't feel so strongly about it if Evasion weren't such a terrible strategy. It is so ridiculously easy to beat it's stupid. It's like banning Pikachu with Light Ball. What would be the point?

Smogon is so blinded by their move sets to counter this Pokémon and that. People don't want the accuracy of the already terribly inaccurate Focus Blast to be put into jeopardy. One evasion boost does what? Turns a regular attack into Focus Blast?

What about attacks that never miss? Haze. I can't keep repeating Haze. It has good distribution and it's just like running Defog. Oh you don't want to get rid of your boosts to combat the opponent?

It is laziness to adapt to a new Meta and fear of having to learn new strategies. People are stuck in their ways.

Why don't we see just how much usage Mega Kangaskhan, Mega Gengar and evasion get in VGC. I'm assuming evasion won't see much use because it's a terrible strategy.

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Attacks that never miss, like Swift, aren't used at all because of their low base powers. The only exceptions are Aura Sphere, which has acceptable base power (at 90 in Gens IV-V, 80 in Gen VI), Aerial Ace (which Mega Aerodactyl can actually get away with thanks to Tough Claws powering up the move), Shadow Punch (which Golurk can use thanks to Iron Fist) and Clear Smog, which is used as an offensive Haze. However, Aura Sphere and Clear Smog aren't learned by a lot of Pokemon.

iAzire said:

Another luck based factor? The fact that you have to say ANOTHER is the point. People are lazy and don't feel like dealing with an overall terrible strategy. I probably wouldn't feel so strongly about it if Evasion weren't such a terrible strategy. It is so ridiculously easy to beat it's stupid. It's like banning Pikachu with Light Ball. What would be the point?

Smogon is so blinded by their move sets to counter this Pokémon and that. People don't want the accuracy of the already terribly inaccurate Focus Blast to be put into jeopardy. One evasion boost does what? Turns a regular attack into Focus Blast?

What about attacks that never miss? Haze. I can't keep repeating Haze. It has good distribution and it's just like running Defog. Oh you don't want to get rid of your boosts to combat the opponent?

It is laziness to adapt to a new Meta and fear of having to learn new strategies. People are stuck in their ways.

Why don't we see just how much usage Mega Kangaskhan, Mega Gengar and evasion get in VGC. I'm assuming evasion won't see much use because it's a terrible strategy.

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Let's examine what you are saying here and put it into perspective. You are wanting to rely on the move Haze to deal with Stat Changes, thus allowing Evasion to be perfectly acceptable in the meta? you say you can just keep spamming Haze? You do have a limit of PP, and what happens in the case that your Haze user is either killed beforehand, or they are faster than you and kill you. What do you do in that situation, invest another Pokemon to have Haze? Okay, so two slots taken up by a Haze User that could've been used as a check. Using as a check as well? What if it's dealt with? then the battle could potentially go out of hand and you are sitting there doing nothing.

Even in a situation without Haze, in which yes, you can kill a Poke' trying to use Evasion to it's advantage, they can be killed easily with the right answer, but what if you don't have the right answer right then? What if they are able to get just two evasive moves off. You can still hit it right? But what if you don't? Yes I am putting the Luck Factor into perspective, but the Luck Factor IS a part of competitive battling.

You say Smogon is so blinded by their ways, when Smogon is an entire community of people, just just a committee. Each banned Poke has been taken into testing by people who move up their ladder battling, and then put to a vote among the community. Sound hard? I was able to ladder in about three to four days to put my vote into say, so therefore you could do the same. How does that show laziness? Have you ever legitimately tested against a tuned team with Blaziken?

And then you are comparing Smogon Singles.... To VGC Doubles? you do realize that these are completely different metas right? The amount of difference between having two Poke' against two Poke' and 1v1 is incredible. Also, if you check out the site Nuggetbridge, you can see reports of Top 16 rankings/teams of recent VGC Tournaments, which have a fair number of Kangaskhan's and Gengar's among them.

VGC someone said?

Mega Kangaskan is in like half the teams or so seen among the top 16 at tournaments, as ToWriteLove said. A third at the very least. Also, Kangaskan is the third most used Pokemon in Season 2 of Special Battles, which was and is following VGC rules. Evasion moves fall under the set-up move list and like just about every other set up move, it's not used because the meta is too aggressive. You may see a random Sand Veil Garchomp holding Bright Powder, however. That damned thing cost me top 16 two Spring VGCs ago. (How does THREE Ice Beams miss???) Mega Gengar is uncommon but you'll see them on most Perish teams.

I'm not sure why you're comparing VGC to Smogon. It's easier to compare apples to grapes.

iAzire said:

Another luck based factor? The fact that you have to say ANOTHER is the point. People are lazy and don't feel like dealing with an overall terrible strategy. I probably wouldn't feel so strongly about it if Evasion weren't such a terrible strategy. It is so ridiculously easy to beat it's stupid. It's like banning Pikachu with Light Ball. What would be the point?

Smogon is so blinded by their move sets to counter this Pokémon and that. People don't want the accuracy of the already terribly inaccurate Focus Blast to be put into jeopardy. One evasion boost does what? Turns a regular attack into Focus Blast?

What about attacks that never miss? Haze. I can't keep repeating Haze. It has good distribution and it's just like running Defog. Oh you don't want to get rid of your boosts to combat the opponent?

It is laziness to adapt to a new Meta and fear of having to learn new strategies. People are stuck in their ways.

Why don't we see just how much usage Mega Kangaskhan, Mega Gengar and evasion get in VGC. I'm assuming evasion won't see much use because it's a terrible strategy.

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I don't think evasio is as terrible strategy as you make it out to be. And apparently you didn't read my last couple of sentences. Evasion requires no skill to use. Evasion is basically a luck based strategy. There is enough of a luck factor in Pokemon already. Evasion is banned so competitive battling stays competitive and doesn't turn into a craps shoot. There's no reason to play Pokemon competitively if its just a gamble.

The thing you need to understand is that human beings are the ones playing Pokemon competitively. Most people are NOT creative and NOT good strategists; therefore you can't expect them to come up with ways to counter new threats or attempt to learn new strategies. People play to win.

Every team carries counters to other Pokémon. This is my point with Blaziken. You build your team to counter threats. Blaziken is not uncountable, at least not nearly as bad as Mega Kangaskhan or Mega Gengar.

I understand that Singles and Doubles are different play styles but why wouldn't Hail+Snow Cloak+Bright Powder work for an Evasion build? Other Pokémon could use other skills, I don't think the aggressive style means you can't use it. Combine that Evasion with STAB 100% accurate Blizzard? Froslass also has STAB Shadow Ball. It could be done.

My purpose for bringing up VGC and the usage of Pokémon and Evasion is the Pokémon are being used while evasion isn't except in rare cases. Of course anything could pop up in VGC so it's a moot point.

On the point of losing your Haze user, what happens if you lose your spinner/defogger? You can end up severely crippled either way based on your team.

Simply put, if people use moves that increase accuracy, why not decrease? The entire game is luck based, why remove something that is luck based? It doesn't make sense.

SparksPKMN said:

So, some time ago Smogon banned Mega Blaziken (for Speed Boost), Mega Kangaskhan (for unstoppableness involving Power-Up Punch), and Mega Gengar (for general trickery) from their whatever-thing. I don't really care much about their whatever-thing, but this got my attention. Why? Because as a fan of Pokemon and my involvement with its meta. This type of thing has really has gotten on my nerves in the past (the banning of Soul Dew, for example) and I'm fearing an all-out ban of the use of Mega Stones online for X and Y.
Don't worry, this won't be an essay, but an articulation of my opinion (a rant, you could say). The reason this bothers me so much is the fact that other video games let their metas evolve on their own. If Pokemon did this, it would be like this: Someone finds a really powerful Pokemon, and they use it in the meta. Some of the meta copies this person, while the rest look for a counter. As many start using this counter, people can predict that they will be facing this counter, and the meta flows like that accordingly. However, Smogon doesn't seem to want that to happen. What they are doing is trying to ban all Pokemon that take over the meta without letting it flow, thus creating a somewhat broken meta.

I'm sorry if this is in the wrong place, but I was kinda in a hurry in typing this because it's pretty long.

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I Agree With You , But The Thing Is That About Eighty Five Percent Of The People Play By Smogon Rules . When There's A VGC Tournament Hosted By The Creators Of The Pokemon Game , People Will Use All Those "OU" Pokemon In There & Battle With Them . The Thing That They Don't Know Is That In A VGC Battle You Can Use Minimize & Make A Lot Of Your Opponents Pokemon Fall Asleep & Smogon People Get Mad , But What They Don't Realize Is The Rules Of The VGC Competition.

iAzire said:

Every team carries counters to other Pokémon. This is my point with Blaziken. You build your team to counter threats. Blaziken is not uncountable, at least not nearly as bad as Mega Kangaskhan or Mega Gengar.

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You can't counter everything.

I understand that Singles and Doubles are different play styles but why wouldn't Hail+Snow Cloak+Bright Powder work for an Evasion build? Other Pokémon could use other skills, I don't think the aggressive style means you can't use it. Combine that Evasion with STAB 100% accurate Blizzard? Froslass also has STAB Shadow Ball. It could be done.

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I don't understand what you're getting at here. Nobody here is saying that evasion tactics can't work.

My purpose for bringing up VGC and the usage of Pokémon and Evasion is the Pokémon are being used while evasion isn't except in rare cases. Of course anything could pop up in VGC so it's a moot point.

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Most people understand that evasion is kinda broken, so they refrain from using evasion tactics. That's why evasion isn't that common in VGC.

On the point of losing your Haze user, what happens if you lose your spinner/defogger? You can end up severely crippled either way based on your team.

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This I can agree with you on. I'm not fond of the way entry hazards (especially Stealth Rock) overcentralize the metagame.

Simply put, if people use moves that increase accuracy, why not decrease? The entire game is luck based, why remove something that is luck based? It doesn't make sense.

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Competitive battling should be based more on skill than luck. Luck is an unavoidable part of anything, but that doesn't mean we have to turn Pokemon battles into Russian Roulette.

And the thing is, does the evasion clause (and Smogon's other bans) ruin your day? Does it ruin the metagame? Smogon doesn't ban things nilly-willy; a lot of thought and testing is put into their bans. They do post about why they ban things:

Blaziken: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/xy-ou-ban-of-blaziken-and-deoxys-n.3492497/
Mega Kangaskhan: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/kangaskhanite-is-now-banned-to-ubers.3495351/

If they did just ban things left and right, Keldeo would've made Ubers a long time ago.

The thing I have never understood about people who complain about Smogon and make it out to be the devil is that nobody is forced to play by Smogon's rules. Everyone who plays by Smogon's rules does so willingly. If you don't like Smogon's rules, then go play in VGC, Battle Spot or with friends/Passerbys or the Battle Maison.

One other thing: Haze is not a cure-all to evasion. Haze only eliminates stat boosts; evasion gained by items and abilities is unaffected by Haze.

Cordova.Erick said:

I Agree With You , But The Thing Is That About Eighty Five Percent Of The People Play By Smogon Rules . When There's A VGC Tournament Hosted By The Creators Of The Pokemon Game , People Will Use All Those "OU" Pokemon In There & Battle With Them . The Thing That They Don't Know Is That In A VGC Battle You Can Use Minimize & Make A Lot Of Your Opponents Pokemon Fall Asleep & Smogon People Get Mad , But What They Don't Realize Is The Rules Of The VGC Competition.

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Uhm. Time to clear a misconception. VGC tournaments are not set by the creators of the game. For the most part, once the developers finish the game, they have nothing to do with it unless something breaks and they have to fix it. No, the people who organizes the tournaments are ordinary people with day jobs who do a lot of tournament hosting on their free time. Then it's further organized to include people who makes organize the tournament organizers and help them plan so everything isn't clustered together in one location. Then it's further organized to include people who makes things official and puts it up on the official site and really helps get the word out. And all these people are all part of The Pokemon Company International. Except the tournament organizers are 100% volunteer, and they don't get paid for their work. And all of these guys are certainly not creators of Pokemon.

Derp.

One of the few realizations the complainer eventually will or will not make is that Smogon adjust their rules to fit their image of a preferable metagame, which probably differs from the vision the complainer at hand had in mind, and that they don't give a damn about what this one thinks. Complaining about them changing the rules is in our eyes misplaced when the actual force behind them is not Smogon but another party that has chosen to adhere to them. Similarly, an internet-savvy person should not automatically expect Smogon rules on anything but Smogon itself. This kind of assumption is always a big source for drama on sites like GameFAQs who does not have Smogon rules. From our experience, most Smogon regulars actually are well-versed with the concept of having different rulesets, mostly because it is inherent in the whole Smogon idea. They give us a good challenge most time we battle in VGC.

As for the metagame they aspire to create, it comes down to preference. Smogon prefers a well balanced enviroment where many playstyles and Pokemon are viable as possible. The power discrepancy between many mons in the game led to the creation of character tiers.
Now, as said, that is how they prefer a metagame, although there are many(?) people who think that certain powerful and centralizing forces should be allowed to remain in the standard play because it narrows down the number of viable playstyles and tightens the metagame, which is a valid opinion. We personally prefer a decentralized metagame because we think it leads to more varied matchups and more interesting games.

As for the banning of several Megas that seems to upset people: We have saw that as inevitable since the official statement that they are practically lengendaries (read: 'Über'). Even if they are checkable, it may or may not prevent them from being centralizing. A good example is the 4th gen Sand Veil Garchomp in Singles that forced most high level teams to consist of Garchomp, two Garchomp checks, two Garchomp check counters and a filler. As said, it is a valid opinion to like that kind of metagame but we are probably in the minority when we find it slightly monotonous.

Also, we wonder how the misconception about VGC being held by Game Freak come to exist. They are responsible for the game itself while the VGC rules are provided by The Pokémon Company.

Griffinbane said:

Uhm. Time to clear a misconception. VGC tournaments are not set by the creators of the game. For the most part, once the developers finish the game, they have nothing to do with it unless something breaks and they have to fix it. No, the people who organizes the tournaments are ordinary people with day jobs who do a lot of tournament hosting on their free time. Then it's further organized to include people who makes organize the tournament organizers and help them plan so everything isn't clustered together in one location. Then it's further organized to include people who makes things official and puts it up on the official site and really helps get the word out. And all these people are all part of The Pokemon Company International. Except the tournament organizers are 100% volunteer, and they don't get paid for their work. And all of these guys are certainly not creators of Pokemon.

Derp.

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Even Though They're Not The Creators , They Still Play A Role In The Pokemon Game Because The Tournamenta Are In The Game , Except When Someone Else That Is Not Part Of The Company Hosts It Then It Will Be Outside (Local). Anyways , The Thing Is About Smogon , Not The Creators Of The Tournaments & Such .

Except that Game Freak (the creators) have nothing to do with The Pokemon Company International (the organizers). You're still combining the two into one even though they have zero, zip, zilch, nada to do with each other.

As for Smogon, in the end, every player can play by their rules or choose to play according to another set of rules. I don't really see the point about arguing against what Smogon does when you can just skip their rules altogether and play according to a different set. After all, none of the Battle Spot styles support Smogon.

Don't like Smogon? Play VGC or Battle Spot. Singles Smogon is the dominant battle form on this forum and most tournaments are in that format. If you don't like it, you can always create your own tournament (and see it die without support). Hell, if you play on Showdown, there's like... 4 other formats you can play.

Those guys spend weeks, months even, testing out teams and pushing numbers. All props to them. They're a dedicated community, and they really do strive to make the game as fair as possible.

/shrug

I Agree With You . But The Thing Is , Smogon Make These Tiers To Make The Game Enjoyable & All While Pokémon In VGC Match Tells You , "You Like That Pokémon ? Cool , Use It ?" Smogon Is Not The Correct Way To Play Pokémon . I See Many Twelve Year Old Kids Getting Yelled At For Using Minimize Driblim When They Are Really Playing Under VGC Rules . I Understand We Can Play As For Fun , But When It Comes To World Wide Tournaments , You HAVE To Use Anything You Can To Win Unless The Rules Say So.

Pffffft. Nowhere does it say anywhere in VGC that Smogon is not the correct way of playing. Fact is, a player should make themselves familiar with the rules before joining any tournament. There's been plenty of players who've been kicked out of a regional for bringing in an illegal team. In fact, it's easier to last-minute convert a team from VGC to singles format. VGC is the OFFICIAL LIVE COMPETITION format. So what? That doesn't mean you're banned from playing singles, or making and agreeing on rules ahead of time.

If a 12-year-old wants to become competitive, he or she had better learn to update themselves with the rules before joining any tournament. Pfft, I know parents who fix their kids' teams so that the kids can compete. Someone has to take responsibility. Sorry, but if a person decides to go into a tournament blind to the rules, they deserve to lose or get DQ'd. Only one situation exists where a person may be given the pass and that's if they literally could not go check the rules. And in that case, shouldn't life take priority anyway?

Cordova.Erick said:

I Agree With You . But The Thing Is , Smogon Make These Tiers To Make The Game Enjoyable & All While Pokémon In VGC Match Tells You , "You Like That Pokémon ? Cool , Use It ?" Smogon Is Not The Correct Way To Play Pokémon . I See Many Twelve Year Old Kids Getting Yelled At For Using Minimize Driblim When They Are Really Playing Under VGC Rules . I Understand We Can Play As For Fun , But When It Comes To World Wide Tournaments , You HAVE To Use Anything You Can To Win Unless The Rules Say So.

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It all comes down to what the players in question agree to. If both players aren't on the same page at the beginning then someone is gonna be mad. Like the other day I went into a battle with a friend but he invited me to doubles when my team is built for singles. I was a little upset and wound up losing because my team wasn't ready for it. Smogon is a self imposed set of rules and in no way pretends to be the official play style.

Also, if we're gonna talk about what VGC rules are, VGC is all doubles only. And if all we did was have double battles life would suck, okay?

Work on typing without caps on every word while you're at it, unless you're trying to annoy the entire forum.

I Am Saying Why Do So Many People Act Like Smogon's Say Is The Ultimate Word . & No, They Do Not Make The Best Decisions, Why Do People Think That? People Are Just Following Them & Thinking They Are The Representative To Pokemon Or Something . Just Say In Proper Battling , Several Legendary's Cannot Be Used. Other Than That, You Need To Use Logic & Decide How To Build A Powerful Team Of Non-Legendary's . You Spend Long Time Training A Pokemon To Level Hundred & Then It's Banned Just Because It Can Sweep Someone's Team ? There Is No Pokemon That Has No Weakness In Now In Gen 6. So If You're Loosing Then It's Because You Don't Have A Balanced Team , Don't Blame It One The Trainer Or The Pokemon That Sweeped You.. Blame It On Yourself . I don't see the real point of this so called "competitive battling"... I mean just say to people go build yourself a team as long you don't use any legendary's then it's fine. If You Build A Team Filled With Weak Pokemon , Then You Should Not Complain If You Get Swept . There Are Some Non-Legendaries With Great Abilities Such As Blaziken But It Can Be Countered If You Have A Proper Balance Team . What You Don't Do Is Turn Around & Ban Blaziken . There Is Nothing Competitive About That .

~ By The Way , This Is The Way I Type , Nobody Is Trying To Annoy Other People . I'm Just Known For Typing The Begginning Every Word With A Capital Letter . ;)

Cordova.Erick said:

I Am Saying Why Do So Many People Act Like Smogon's Say Is The Ultimate Word . & No, They Do Not Make The Best Decisions, Why Do People Think That? People Are Just Following Them & Thinking They Are The Representative To Pokemon Or Something .

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Smogon knows what they're doing. They do extensive testing, and by they I don't mean it's one guy doing the whole thing. It's a community that exists to do this sort of thing. It's been said many times on this thread. Why do people complain about Smogon when you're not forced to abide by their rules? If someone's shoving Smogon down your throat then ignore them. Now saying that is going to make everything I say look incredibly hypocritical but, the second part of this post merely defends Smogon's ban decisions; I'm not forcing you to adhere to them.

Cordova.Erick said:

There Is No Pokemon That Has No Weakness In Now In Gen 6. So If You're Loosing Then It's Because You Don't Have A Balanced Team , Don't Blame It One The Trainer Or The Pokemon That Sweeped You.. Blame It On Yourself . I don't see the real point of this so called "competitive battling"... I mean just say to people go build yourself a team as long you don't use any legendary's then it's fine. If You Build A Team Filled With Weak Pokemon , Then You Should Not Complain If You Get Swept . There Are Some Non-Legendaries With Great Abilities Such As Blaziken But It Can Be Countered If You Have A Proper Balance Team . What You Don't Do Is Turn Around & Ban Blaziken . There Is Nothing Competitive About That.

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Actual weaknesses are kind of irrelevant to the argument. Type advantage does not make one a counter. Azire, you said Blaziken is weak to common attacking types. But if it High Jump Kicks you to the graveyard, you won't even have time to launch an attack. And the point of bans are these Pokemon are overpowered. A balanced team can easily be swept by Blaziken. Quoted from Zekrom's link: "Blaziken can either sweep a significant portion of the metagame late-game with just a Speed Boost or sweep a significant portion of the metagame at any point in a battle with a Speed Boost and Swords Dance." The whole point is that you won't have to sacrifice a slot and the synergy of your team for an obscure counter. And you can't just prepare yourself for one threat, might as well carry a counter for each banned Pokemon while you're at it. The same thing goes for evasion. Sure you can have a balanced team, but can your team stop Kang, Lucario, Blaziken, Minimize and every other imaginable thing at the same time? No.


For something like singles do I think Smogon is in the right? Yes. Do I think people playing singles should adhere to their rules? Sure. I think it makes things fair and more fun. But no one's making you do anything, if you don't agree with Smogon, then don't play by their rules.