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  #201    
Old May 22nd, 2013, 08:51 AM
Zorua's Avatar
Zorua
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Higher staff are higher staff because they own the domain name, web server, cPanel/WHM license, vBulletin license, etc.
No? o_O The only person that owns all of those things is Steve, really...

Higher staff are picked by Higher staff. It's as simple as that. S-mods and above can vote for s-mods and above. It has nothing to do with vbulletin at all.
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  #202    
Old May 22nd, 2013, 08:54 AM
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No, that's not why higher staff are higher staff. It has nothing to do with who owns licenses. They are chosen because they are mature, driven moderators that have the ability to remain unbiased in conflicts, and can contribute constructively to HQ, where forum-wide decisions are made. I don't know where you got that misconception, but h-staff are chosen just like moderators are, licenses are irrelevant.
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  #203    
Old May 22nd, 2013, 08:59 AM
GenuineCorruption
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that have the ability to remain unbiased in conflicts,

That's something we need here real bad. Maybe it exists in some areas, in fact I know it does. However it doesn't in others.
I am sure licenses etc has something to do with it, someone has to pay your webhost to keep your server in existance (unless you have free hosting?)
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  #204    
Old May 22nd, 2013, 09:03 AM
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Oryx
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Rukario handles the financial aspects of the forum. No one is promoted to higher staff due to their ability to pay for a license, or pay for anything. I can guarantee you this, 100%. You can disagree with the way things are run around here, but when staff members are telling you that you are wrong on how the forum is run, please don't argue as if you have an inside track to how higher staff is promoted. This isn't a matter of a difference of opinion; paying for licenses has nothing to do with higher staff promotions.

Do you have an example of the bias that you seem to be implying the higher staff possesses?
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  #205    
Old May 22nd, 2013, 09:04 AM
Cordelia
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The person who pays the bills doesn't really participate much in PC. Please, don't comment on things if you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. It only makes you look worse.
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  #206    
Old May 22nd, 2013, 09:04 AM
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that have the ability to remain unbiased in conflicts,

That's something we need here real bad. Maybe it exists in some areas, in fact I know it does. However it doesn't in others.
I would just like to say that staff are people as well, and remaining unbiased in conflicts is difficult when the conflict continues on after many instances where a reasonable solution could have been achieved.
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  #207    
Old May 22nd, 2013, 09:07 AM
GenuineCorruption
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Yeah, I do.
Nothing's investigated, mods can do no wrong. Exclusion, Cyberbullying (in the case of unapproved challenges in some cases), etc. Obviously you guys are all pretty close with one another, maybe even in person, which is cool and all but evidently there's no objectivity anywhere.
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  #208    
Old May 22nd, 2013, 09:11 AM
Cordelia
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Mods are of course investigated by h-staff. We've had mods be demoted over their actions and behavior. We are held very accountable and have to watch what we say, particularly in this instance. You just won't drop it. Syd did nothing wrong. She told him where to post. This doesn't concern you at all, either. You are a third party who can't get his facts right and won't drop it.

So drop it.
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  #209    
Old May 22nd, 2013, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GenuineCorruption View Post
Since the discussion did continue on through the night I figure I'd say this.
Despite having several higher members of staff telling you to drop it?


Quote:
Originally Posted by GenuineCorruption View Post
Some of the staff responses to those last few posts are, as stated above quite shalow. To not give someone or something a chance, and to just say it has no potential with no supporting evidence of such is to say that it is not worthy of being here, which is to say that the person in question is not worthy of being here.
I'll just comment on this.

Yes, the thread is question was different, and there's no precedent for whether it would have flourished or not. However, we have imaginations, which we can use to guess what the thread's outcome would have been. My imagination, for instance, says that it wouldn't have even taken off, because it wouldn't at all concern the vast majority of users, and any responses it would have gotten would have been pointless "I support this idea" messages with nothing actually done about it. I'm sure that's what Syd's imagination told her too.

The thing is, staff are in charge of their sections; that's how PokéCommunity works. It's up to each mod to decide how best to run their sections, which means quite often they will have to rely on their imaginations to decide whether a thread or challenge or ROM hack or whatever is suitable to be in their section. Some sections are more suited for short threads for quick questions than others, and some sections are primarily for decent discussions. Syd's sections are generally "decent discussions" sections, and in this case she decided the thread in question wouldn't provide any kind of discussion, so she closed it. That's fine; that's one of the things she does in her role. She offered explanations and alternatives, which is more than she needed to do.



In any case, it was not your thread. Aaron accepted the decision, and for some bizarre reason you're taking offence on his behalf months later, as well as whinging and lashing out when you're not getting your way. You're ignoring the explanations and alternatives provided, and publicly berating a decent member of staff. I fail to see why anyone should pay attention to you when you're simply not being reasonable and receptive.
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  #210    
Old May 22nd, 2013, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Yeah, I do.
Nothing's investigated, mods can do no wrong. Exclusion, Cyberbullying (in the case of unapproved challenges in some cases), etc. Obviously you guys are all pretty close with one another, maybe even in person, which is cool and all but evidently there's no objectivity anywhere.
I would argue that this situation has been extensively investigated by a number of people on multiple occasions, taking into account every detail and viewing it from both a professional and personal level. Solutions have been offered. You calling Unapproved Challenges "cyberbullying" indicates a lack of experience with the real deal. Nobody is being discriminated against; if you had better knowledge of the forums I believe you would see next to no discrimination and zero tolerance for those who do discriminate. So please, do refrain from making these accusations.
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Last edited by Anna; May 22nd, 2013 at 09:20 AM.
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  #211    
Old May 22nd, 2013, 09:16 AM
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abnegation
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Spoiler:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belldandy View Post
This is very offensive and derogatory. You have no evidence to back up any of this nor to justify these claims. No one is being excluded. No one is being discriminated against. I have yet to see a case of cyberbullying other than on your behalf at the staff's expense. The staff is being very objective and are being very mature, responsible and professional with their responses.

I'll reiterate what I said before: quit while you're ahead. You have no basis or founding argument. Your claims and "evidence" were debunked and rebuttled. The "victim" is satisfied with Sydian's communication as well as that of the rest of the staff. He (or she) has come and expressed their opinion and thoughts on the matter already - even going as far as to say that he/she is on good terms with Syd! You are not Aaron's spokesperson and you are taking something small and blowing it out of proportion to defame a long-term staff member who, from my experience (having been here since 2009), has always done a good job and nei' a complaint was made.

You should frequent the forums more often lest continue to make misplaced, delusive and inaccurate accusations / suggestions about its staffies. If the latter is the case, you can take your beef somewhere else, 'cause we don't want any of it :) *already had cookies*

[Edit]

@Abnegation,

Was writing this post for 20min so dun delete D: (started before you posted that bit!)

A post I didn't want to be unseen given the effort, so deleted and added above ^

I enjoyed the irony of "staff are not objective" being an argument posted within a thread which contradicts just that. GenuineCorruption, you have your answers. This is all off-topic, and any further off-topic posts will be treated as such. You have the Simple PC Questions and Answers thread for further questions regarding servers and so forth. Now please allow the thread to permit others to put forward feedback, step back for a while and get some air. No more off-topic posts now, please guys.
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Last edited by abnegation; May 22nd, 2013 at 09:32 AM.
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  #212    
Old May 22nd, 2013, 11:54 PM
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Alinthea
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I am pretty disappointed in some members here. After nicely asking for the discussion to be dropped from the public view, you continue as if I never said anything.

For future reference, if anything comes up again like this, don't post it publicly because all it does is cause drama and embarrassment for the people involved.

Anyone who continues to post in here about the subject above will have their post deleted and a PM from me, end of story. If you want to appeal that, you are welcome to by PM'ing me only. Posting a reply here doesn't constitute as an appeal and it will be deleted and not followed up.

Next time, please just read. If you disagree with someone's actions, just contact a Higher Staff member and avoid all this drama.

Note: I am not saying moderator feedback is bad! It is amazing when we have feedback on how we are doing, because that is how we better ourselves. Just when it gets to this level of drama, we would like to avoid! :)

Last edited by Alinthea; May 23rd, 2013 at 12:27 AM.
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  #213    
Old May 23rd, 2013, 09:14 AM
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Hello yes I'm going to throw in my thoughts here (and hopefully lighten the mood after previous events in this thread.)

I think overall the staff here are good, I have very few issues with them and I have good relationships with a lot of them, but I would like to reiterate a few things said earlier on in the thread about staff behaviour and a few other things, while I won't name names because really this isn't a regular occurrence and I can completely understand and empathise with the staff members who do this, because we all have bad days, but I do feel that all staff members can on occasion be very very rude, or, that's how I (and others) read it, I feel especially towards newer members who ask questions which seem obvious to those who have been here a while the staff can answer the questions in a very snarky way and it just really bothers me the way some staff brush people off and appear to not really care about the members. Obviously I think this thread is a great step forwards in terms of member-staff relations and I have noticed a few staff members making a concious effort to come across in a better way to members, but I think this is still an issue and while I don't expect it to go away I just want to highlight that staff (and regular members) can come across as pretty rude in the way they speak to other members and it's certainly something everyone needs to think more about.

My big issue though is staff transparency, yes we now know a little more about what the higher staff and just regular moderators do now in part thanks to feedback in this thread but I really feel that iron curtain is still very much there and this is definitely a contributing factor as to why members don't want to approach the staff. I feel it could be beneficial for members to have a little more of a say in what goes on with the forums, I've seen a few threads involving removal of features and members have had an active part in helping decide what stays and what goes but I think something that would really help relations across the board would be not to tell us exactly what's happening and what's being discussed but perhaps if a new feature is being discussed in the HQ or the Lounge or whatever if the staff do decide that's something they'd like put into the forums to perhaps get member opinion, perhaps a select group of people (The supporters perhaps? As they put money towards the forum perhaps they could have some role?) or just to put it in the announcements or wherever and just see if the feature that's being considered is something the memberbase want. I really feel that a bit more transparency with what's happening behind the scenes could be really helpful to the forums.

But other than that you're all doing a really good job and I am really happy with the way PC is staffed and the staff members and uh keep up the good work, I guess!
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  #214    
Old May 23rd, 2013, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Kawaii~ View Post
Hello yes I'm going to throw in my thoughts here (and hopefully lighten the mood after previous events in this thread.)

My big issue though is staff transparency, yes we now know a little more about what the higher staff and just regular moderators do now in part thanks to feedback in this thread but I really feel that iron curtain is still very much there and this is definitely a contributing factor as to why members don't want to approach the staff. I feel it could be beneficial for members to have a little more of a say in what goes on with the forums, I've seen a few threads involving removal of features and members have had an active part in helping decide what stays and what goes but I think something that would really help relations across the board would be not to tell us exactly what's happening and what's being discussed but perhaps if a new feature is being discussed in the HQ or the Lounge or whatever if the staff do decide that's something they'd like put into the forums to perhaps get member opinion, perhaps a select group of people (The supporters perhaps? As they put money towards the forum perhaps they could have some role?) or just to put it in the announcements or wherever and just see if the feature that's being considered is something the memberbase want. I really feel that a bit more transparency with what's happening behind the scenes could be really helpful to the forums.
I just want to address a few things here actually. When I wasn't a super moderator, I assumed there was so much going on behind the scenes that higher staff did not tell us about. However, I'd estimate that well over half of what higher staff deal with is actually Human Resources and member relations. You'd be surprised how little we don't share with members. The thing is, most of the features we implement are actually suggested by the memberbase, and thus, already known by them. If there's things we wish the memberbase to have a say on we tend to ask them, other times however, we just need to get things done. If there's anything in which could been seen as controversial we'd probably ask within PCQ&F, which has been done on occasions before. I'd love to say "we should certainly tell you more and have you all involved with more decisions!", but there's little to actually discuss with the forum as a whole, given that as I say; most of what higher staff deal with is relations. We also like to sometimes add neat features as a surprise. Furthermore, this is why we have PokéCommunity Questions and Feedback, to let us know what you like and dislike about the forum, from where we can hopefully improve it.

We're also not extremely keen on supporters having more of a say than members, Supporters are not paying for the use of the forum, but helping us keep it running, and that's why it's a donation. So overall, there's not so much going on behind the scenes as expected, especially in relation to features being added. In saying that though, we like things to get done, and as staff we try to do them to the best of our ability. What most people seem to forget is that before I was orange, or Sydian was blue, or Morkula was red, we were all just members who care about PC. And still are and do. There's over 30 staff members to discuss what's best for the forum, and there's thousands of members to give us feedback on the features and whether there's something we can improve upon. Staff don't tend to make the wrong decisions with features very often, however too many voices discussing on where to put a table in a room can make it too loud, they're better off coming in once it has been placed as a lot more voices will be appeased with the decision.
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  #215    
Old May 23rd, 2013, 11:42 PM
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Continuing this thought, I feel like PC has become more and more democratic over the past... months? Some people probably automatically think "democracy is the best, everywhere and anytime!" but I don't think that's completely true. When leading a country, it might be.

But when leading a forum online, which isn't really specifically bound by laws of democracy or people's will or anything but rather is a place that some people started and let others join in on, total democracy might not be the best at all.

What I mean is, I'm fine with the H-staff members taking care of important business behind the scenes. I've always assumed they do. Mod members as well, albeit not as large questions perhaps. While we non-staff members can browse the forum and feel carefree (not careless!) as long as we follow the rational rules the staff set up for us all.

But I believe what Abnegation says and I think it works fine this way :3

(uh, I hope this was relevant in this thread)
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  #216    
Old May 24th, 2013, 05:54 AM
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I've always viewed PC as an Oligarchy and never really saw any signs of it becoming more of a democracy. All the decisions are still made up of a small group of people (when it comes to the internal affairs of a forum, it's more of a Monarchy since the decisions fall entirely on one person), but all of the major decisions that affect the overall state of the forum are still made by a small group of people.
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