The Rainbow Connection [LGBTS Club]

Alakazam17 · Dec 15, 2011

I agree with everything's that been said above regarding the current topic. Though I don't think it should be restricted to certain ages, and instead based around the individual's development, ie. before puberty sets in. Puberty causes some big changes to both male and female bodies, and several of these are irreversable. So if an individual is lucky enough to realize that they're trans at such a point, and brave enough to tell people about it, hormone therapy should be begun before the onset of puberty. And is that point has already come and gone, then my answer would be to start it as soon as possible.

As for SRS and plastic surgery, I'd normally group it with the age of consent for the particilar country you're in. You can live without either until then in most instances, and unlike with hormones, these operations are often irreversable.

Esper · Dec 15, 2011

Ineffable~ said:
Just fyi, I have to make some trans-related points to clear up. Nothing wrong with you not knowing these beforehand. ^_^ In fact it'd be great for anyone else to read this because I know it's not a much understood subject.

-It's touchy to refer to a trans person as "this gender but wants to be this gender." If a trans person identifies as female, she generally doesn't think of herself as a guy.
-If you absolutely must refer to a trans person as specifically trans, you may say "trans woman" for those who identify as female or "trans man" for those who identify as male.
-This doesn't mean all trans people are uncomfortable with being trans, it's just having certain "parts" or having been raised a certain way ≠ being a man/woman, in the case of trans people. Just so you know I'm not ashamed of anything and I'm perfectly willing to discuss any subject. :)
-If I'm not mistaken, Scarf, Ashley Ketchum and Alakazam all identify as female, and so do I.

tl;dr: Trans people don't want to be called by their "previous genders" so to speak.

Ah, I'm glad you responded to this before I did because I'd have been a lot harsher in how I'd say this. xD

-ty- said:
Hey, I want to include some more transgender topics up for discussion; I think I mentioned one before. So I am sorry for not including you guys more. :)

Anyway, I saw a preview for the Anderson Cooper show coming up tomorrow (I think?) that features transgender children. Some of the children were in their teens, and others were very young, appearing to be around first grade. So the question is...

At what age should a child be able to decide whether to have hormone-replacement therapy, sex change operations, and plastic surgery? (The ages may be different to the different components)

~~Anderson Cooper is quite hot. What? I know some of you were thinking this.~~

I should make a note to watch that. I want to see how they talk to these kids, how supportive their families are, but mostly I want to see how they frame the whole topic. When you do see trans people in the media (and I mean as subjects of shows and so on, never really as reporters or anything) it's almost always talked about in the "man in a woman's body" and other slightly ignorant statements like that. Plus you never see anyone who is genderqueer, anyone who isn't trying to go for 100% of one gender (because that would be scary to lots of people - breaking the gender binary like that). Maybe this time it'll be different.

As for the question, since not everyone who is trans is going to want surgery/hormones it'll depend on each person, but if someone did want to have as much of a physical change as possible they should get on hormones before they start puberty and the unwanted, traumatic body changes that will come with that. Surgery is a lot more involved and should probably wait until a little while after the hormones at the very least since, like everyone said, it's the big irreversible change. Plastic surgery is probably not going to be too necessary for most people if they start on hormones at an earlier age so I'd hope most people would be happy with HRT and SRS.

-Jared- · Dec 15, 2011

Ineffable~ said:
Not at all! n3n As for regulars we have Alakazam, Scarf, and me. It's a just fine proportion. ^_^

Psyduck can do the job fine.

Just fyi, I have to make some trans-related points to clear up. Nothing wrong with you not knowing these beforehand. ^_^ In fact it'd be great for anyone else to read this because I know it's not a much understood subject.

-It's touchy to refer to a trans person as "this gender but wants to be this gender." If a trans person identifies as female, she generally doesn't think of herself as a guy.
-If you absolutely must refer to a trans person as specifically trans, you may say "trans woman" for those who identify as female or "trans man" for those who identify as male.
-This doesn't mean all trans people are uncomfortable with being trans, it's just having certain "parts" or having been raised a certain way ≠ being a man/woman, in the case of trans people. Just so you know I'm not ashamed of anything and I'm perfectly willing to discuss any subject. :)
-If I'm not mistaken, Scarf, Ashley Ketchum and Alakazam all identify as female, and so do I.

tl;dr: Trans people don't want to be called by their "previous genders" so to speak.

I have to thank you for that bit there, because even though I am completely supportive of trans people, I never really knew much about the subject. Now I know more! :3 Which is ALWAYS helpful for me, lol.

Ineffable~ · Dec 15, 2011

Kayges said:
I suppose this brings up the possible situation where a parent is dead-set against the child and unwilling to cooperate. I assume this happens, right?

In a word, yes. :(

Shining Raichu said:
Well I'm also no great expert on the matter, but I'd say wait until age 10. At this point a child is going to be capable to handle the hormonal therapy (I'm not a doctor or a scientist, so I don't know what age it is safe to start this, but I think by 10 you'd surely be safe) and is also going to be capable of enough lucid thought to know for sure that this is something they want, and will not change their mind. This isn't true for all people of course, in which case it's always an option to wait until later, but if you're asking for a minimum I'd say 10.

If I remember correctly, the youngest anyone has ever started is twelve (publicised), or unless I've been had, eleven (anecdotal).

Also, off-topic, I don't think I had "lucid thought" until a few years ago if I'm interpreting the phrase correctly. Am I alone in this?

Scarf said:
I should make a note to watch that. I want to see how they talk to these kids, how supportive their families are, but mostly I want to see how they frame the whole topic. When you do see trans people in the media (and I mean as subjects of shows and so on, never really as reporters or anything) it's almost always talked about in the "man in a woman's body" and other slightly ignorant statements like that. Plus you never see anyone who is genderqueer, anyone who isn't trying to go for 100% of one gender (because that would be scary to lots of people - breaking the gender binary like that). Maybe this time it'll be different.

Normal dress-wearing housewives, very very normative, wigs/makeup/red lipstick, completely miserable, absolute need for vaginoplasty (SRS becomes the "Crown Jewel" that completes her treacherous, tragic and depressing journey), hetero, and either:
1.) Had a huge tragedy when finding out sometime around 40, was kicked out of her house, losing her wife and children, and is now struggling to gain economic stability, emotional stability, and to pass due to hair loss and other obvious issues. (Non-passing moments are inexplicably not shown on camera since it's apparently indecent.)
2.) Started at a relatively young age thanks to wonderful amazing accepting parents; has apparently never felt "complete" with her male parts despite all the love and care and friendship and acceptance she receives.

The media literally feeds off of this.

Pikapal642 said:
I have to thank you for that bit there, because even though I am completely supportive of trans people, I never really knew much about the subject. Now I know more! :3 Which is ALWAYS helpful for me, lol.

You're too welcome. n3n

Kano Shuuya · Dec 15, 2011

Ineffable~ said:
-It's touchy to refer to a trans person as "this gender but wants to be this gender." If a trans person identifies as female, she generally doesn't think of herself as a guy.
-If you absolutely must refer to a trans person as specifically trans, you may say "trans woman" for those who identify as female or "trans man" for those who identify as male.
-This doesn't mean all trans people are uncomfortable with being trans, it's just having certain "parts" or having been raised a certain way ≠ being a man/woman, in the case of trans people. Just so you know I'm not ashamed of anything and I'm perfectly willing to discuss any subject.

-If I'm not mistaken, Scarf, Ashley Ketchum and Alakazam all identify as female, and so do I.

tl;dr: Trans people don't want to be called by their "previous genders" so to speak.

Oh, dang. Nice, Maggie. XD Man, sometimes I forget that not every one knows those things about transpeople because I'm just so used to them now days.

Railgun · Dec 15, 2011

Btw anyone know how to get a feminine look? I'm not going for a girly girl but more like a girl who likes games and into anime. I don't think I can take hormones anytime soon even though my friend told me to just buy them online. I'm not really sure about buying them online. Seems dangerous to me. So just looking for advice.

FreakyLocz14 · Dec 15, 2011

AshleyKetchum said:
Btw anyone know how to get a feminine look? I'm not going for a girly girl but more like a girl who likes games and into anime. I don't think I can take hormones anytime soon even though my friend told me to just buy them online. I'm not really sure about buying them online. Seems dangerous to me. So just looking for advice.

You don't wear dresses or stuff like that but just wear anime or video game character tee shirts. Long or short hair is optional just not too short. For make-up just some mascara, eye liner, and lip balm.

Railgun · Dec 15, 2011

FreakyLocz14 said:
You don't wear dresses or stuff like that but just wear anime or video game character tee shirts. Long or short hair is optional just not too short. For make-up just some mascara, eye liner, and lip balm.

Ah ok thats what I thought. :)

Ineffable~ · Dec 15, 2011

AshleyKetchum said:
stuff

You can PM me if you want to discuss ordering hormones online, since I'm pretty sure it's neither appropriate nor legal to discuss it right here (could be wrong). :P

Note: I have been taking hormones ordered online for almost three months now.

Kayges · Dec 15, 2011

Things seem to have slowed down a little, so maybe I can contribute a small topic.
I'm not one for talking about heavy topics all of the time, so this probably seems pretty minute. xD Actually it may seem downright silly since we have quite a few trans members, but I was wondering how often you get mistaken for the wrong gender and how you cope with it. I was wondering this the other night before I found out how many of the members were trans, so it seems extra silly now, hahah. However, I've always been male and considered myself as such, but throughout my entire high school experience I was mistaken for a girl quite a bit from behind. I didn't really take it offensively, it just became annoying after a while. I'm comfortable with my sexuality and the way I look (I'm a 5'6" lightweight with "girlish curves" xD), so I knew it was inevitable to be mistaken a lot of the time. Still, being reffered to, with my friends in local stores, as "girls" or "miss" by myself was always a bit...awkward, to say the least.

What are your opinions/experiences on this?

Railgun · Dec 15, 2011

Lately I'm mistaken for a full on girl when I sent auditions for voice acting gigs. Its weird since it never happened until the past few weeks. I guess my voice has kinda become more girlish which is nice :)

Alice · Dec 15, 2011

I don't think I've ever been mistaken for a girl, although people have asked me a few times if I wear makeup because I don't sleep... at all. So, my eyes apparently look like they have... whatever kind of makeup you put around your eyes. (Makeup is definitely one thing that I know absolutely nothing about. lol)

I do have a somewhat feminine figure though... maybe I could pass for a girl if I tried. lol (Although, I could never stand to put makeup on. Girls must be tough as nails to be able to stand getting that close to their eyes. Yes, I just said putting makeup on makes you tough.)

-Jared- · Dec 15, 2011

QuilavaKing said:
I don't think I've ever been mistaken for a girl, although people have asked me a few times if I wear makeup because I don't sleep... at all. So, my eyes apparently look like they have... whatever kind of makeup you put around your eyes. (Makeup is definitely one thing that I know absolutely nothing about. lol)

I do have a somewhat feminine figure though... maybe I could pass for a girl if I tried. lol (Although, I could never stand to put makeup on. Girls must be tough as nails to be able to stand getting that close to their eyes. Yes, I just said putting makeup on makes you tough.)

Haha, I agree with you on the makeup part. I know next to nothing about it. xP

As for people mistaking my gender, I don't think it is possible to mistake my gender...I think I look completely male. Too short hair, fairly broad shoulders, etc, so I don't think anyone has EVER mistaken me for a woman.

Kayges · Dec 15, 2011

I have to agree about the makeup bit as well. If I get anything close to my eyes they almost immediately begin to water, haha. I don't know much about makeup to begin with, but I do know that throwing a layer of powder into your pores probably isn't that great for your skins health. Anyways, it's good to hear you two don't have to deal with being mistaked for the opposite gender. I haven't been mistaken since high school, which is nice. My body hasn't changed much, though. I think I'm done growing, actually... which I guess I'll just have to live with, hahah.

Alakazam17 · Dec 15, 2011

I was "mistaken" for a girl a lot when I was little, due to several factors, including the facts that my mom kept my hair long, and that my mannerisms were always rather feminine. I remember at one point I was in the hospital getting my teeth reconstucted(long, unrelated story that I'll leave out), and my parents were asking where their 'son' was. The doctor replied saying the only patient in the room was a little girl. ^__^

But ever since I hit puberty at age eleven, that has never happened again, at least in real life. Online I am often assumed to be female if I don't have it displayed anywhere, including before I came out. I remember one instance where this guy I was speaking to was convinced I was a girl, and would only accept a live video of me to prove otherwise. XD

Though of course, in my case being "mistaken" for a girl is not a mistake at all, so I've always taken it as a compliment. On the other hand, being misrepresented as male is what actually gets me annoyed.

Sydian · Dec 15, 2011

I am ALWAYS mistaken online! "syd's a guy" "no syd is a girl" Hahahaha. In all honesty, I just prefer to keep my gender hidden (well not hidden, but flopping around between the two if you check my post bit). If you have me on MSN, congrats! It means I probably trust you to know my real gender. Perhaps name!

As for irl, when I was 15/16, I was often mistaken for the wrong gender because of my hair. Nowadays, it never happens. Which is good. As amusing as I find it online, it really hurt my self esteem when it happened in person.

Shining Raichu · Dec 15, 2011

I don't think I've ever had my gender mistaken either. I remember my voice broke way later than I would have liked it to, so my voice was too feminine to be compatible with my body for a while there, but now nature has corrected itself lol. As for looks, never.

I also agree about the makeup. I've worn make-up once, on Halloween when I went as a goth. My sister did it for me, and when she was doing my eyeliner, I kept flinching because I couldn't stand it being anywhere near my eye. It was a horrible process lol

Nakuzami · Dec 15, 2011

Ineffable~ said:
Psyduck can do the job fine.

Just fyi, I have to make some trans-related points to clear up. Nothing wrong with you not knowing these beforehand. ^_^ In fact it'd be great for anyone else to read this because I know it's not a much understood subject.

-It's touchy to refer to a trans person as "this gender but wants to be this gender." If a trans person identifies as female, she generally doesn't think of herself as a guy.
-If you absolutely must refer to a trans person as specifically trans, you may say "trans woman" for those who identify as female or "trans man" for those who identify as male.
-This doesn't mean all trans people are uncomfortable with being trans, it's just having certain "parts" or having been raised a certain way ≠ being a man/woman, in the case of trans people. Just so you know I'm not ashamed of anything and I'm perfectly willing to discuss any subject. :)
-If I'm not mistaken, Scarf, Ashley Ketchum and Alakazam all identify as female, and so do I.

tl;dr: Trans people don't want to be called by their "previous genders" so to speak.

TOILET BOWL REBELLION, GO!!

Thanks, lol. I just get confused sometimes, as I don't believe I've ever talked to a trans person (or . . . perhaps a trans person that I knew was trans, but I still don't think I have) before coming to this thread, so I have like little to no knowledge on the subject, lol.

Urgh . . . I'm still not sure what tl;dr means, exactly, which makes me feel a bit incompetent, lol. I just tend to ignore it when people use it, but what does it mean? xD

Scarf said:
Ah, I'm glad you responded to this before I did because I'd have been a lot harsher in how I'd say this. xD

Should I be relieved that you didn't reply first, then? xD
Sorry, I'm a curious little thirteen-year-old that knows next to nothing in this area, lol.

I don't believe anybody has ever mistaken me as a girl . . . I do have *rather long hair, I guess, and some people I know have said that I can sometimes look like a girl from behind, but whatever. xD
*Which my mother is convinced to get cut this weekend, lol.

@Sydian - . . . Uh- . . . Hm . . . I want to guess that you're a guy? But . . . I tend to be wrong, so I could be wrong here. xD

Ah . . . well, I guess here's a little something for me to say: I'm not trans (ho gawd, I know that much xD) but I guess I've always been a bit jealous that girls can act like a guy, dress like a guy, and everything like that, and they can just be considered a "tomboy" but if a guy does that, dressing and acting like a girl . . . it's just not right, apparently.
. . . /not that I really want to act/dress like a girl that much, lol

@Alakazam17 - You . . . um . . . hmph -3- All I have to say is: Down with My Little Pony!!

Oh, and something else:

Spoiler:

/I'm too lazy to say anything more right now, lol.

EDIT: Oh, right, makeup.
I've worn some for Halloween and stuffz, which my step-sister put on me, and it doesn't really bother me :/ My step-sister is probably just good with it though, being the artist that she is. :3

Ineffable~ · Dec 15, 2011

@Nakuzami: No problem, I'll always be here to protect you from mean old Scarf. n3n
(jjjjjkkkkkkktrolol)
EDIT: Tl;dr stands for "too long; didn't read". In the sense I used it, I'm providing a short and sweet version for those that don't feel like reading the whole thing and want to get to the point. :3 [/edit]

I'm like the only trans person I know that's never been (offline) seen as the right gender! So, that's kind of weird, right? xD

On the subject of makeup, I really like eye makeup. I love combining eyeliner and shadow together in beautiful ways. On the other hand, I don't need mascara at all (I has the lovely lashes <3), and I'll wear foundation only reluctantly. Blush is pretty but I don't think I would like using it.

Keiran · Dec 16, 2011

In my high school nursing class it was literally just 10 girls & I. (Most of them were black.) I was wearing a hoodie the first day of class and one of them that didn't know me thought I was a girl at first because my ghetto booty rivaled all of theirs. Apparently you earn a ton of respect among the female community just for having a big butt. LOL

That's the only time I've been mistaken for a girl, if I recall correctly.

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