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Old August 1st, 2011 (08:46 AM). Edited August 1st, 2011 by Exile.
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Introduction


After watching Kevin Garrett battle Vrai with a Stall team that included a number of somewhat unorthodox Pokemon, such as Calm Mind Blissey, I was inspired to create a new stall team, one that had some unexpected elements and would be fun to play. 6 Mons later, I had built my strongest and arguably most successful [Peaked at 1351 on the Pokemon Online Server] team ever and broken out of the "team building slump" that I was in. While I admittedly didn't ladder on servers other than the PO Server, I know this team certainly has the potential to win, when I play it well. This is probably one of the only "True" stall teams I've built, having nearly all the elements of stall, bar TSpikes and Perish Song. The team also lacks weather, but can easily defeat individual threats on weather teams to find victory. Gliscor, with both Toxic and Earthquake, combined with its amazing Physical Bulk, is capable of severely dismantling a plethora of weather abusers. While I have thought about running Gastrodon over Jellicent, the fast Taunts, ability to cripple Pokemon like Ferrothorn, Scizor and Tyranitar and Spin Blocking ultimately prove Jellicent as the superior Pokemon, synergy-wise. One unique feature of this team is that I have no Hazers or Phazers, while that seems like an insanely large risk to carry, I have ways of dealing with both Physical and Special Set-Up Sweepers. The team also features 4 Pokemon immune to Toxic Spikes, which also helps quite a lot with beating other defensively-oriented teams. So hopefully you all like this RMT and it might show you the effectiveness of gimmicky mons in Stall. If you would like to further enjoy reading through this RMT, I suggest you listen to Ellie Goulding's Starry Eyed.

The Team




Blissey (F) @ Leftovers - Trait: Natural Cure -EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SDef - Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)

- Seismic Toss
- Stealth Rock
- Softboiled
- Aromatherapy

Blissey is an all around amazing Pokemon on stall and arguably "Essential" to stall teams in general, since it performs the duties of both a dedicated special wall and a Cleric. This Blissey in particular not only performs the two aforementioned duties but also sets up Stealth Rock. While Stealth Rock could be hashed in favor of an attack that would allow me to beat SubSplit Gengar, having Jirachi allows me to run the risk of having Blissey completely unable to damage Gar, in favor of getting SR up. Blissey is capable of beating nearly all Special Attackers that lack recovery and even frail Physical attackers such as Dugtrio. Blissey's vitality is incredible and its bulk allows me to handle insanely powerful Special Threats like Thundurus and Volcarona.



Jirachi @ Leftovers - Trait: Serene Grace - EVs: 244 HP / 224 SDef / 40 Spd - Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)

- Iron Head
- Psych Up
- Wish
- Protect

Jirachi is arguably one of, if not the most useful Pokemon in the OU Metagame right now. Handling both Reuniclus and Latios, two threats that can easily dismantle a full team with little support, is a must for all stall teams, as they traditionally cannot KO Latios/Reuniclus in one fell swoop. Jirachi, however, can resist the powerful onslaught of these deadly mons and slowly chip away at their health until they die. Psych Up over Body Slam may seem unorthodox, but it allows me to effectively counter almost every Calm Mind sweeper, since I resist their own attacks while hitting back with Physical Damage. Psych Up also allows me to retaliate against and ultimately defeat things like Dragon Dance Scrafty [Drain Punch ones, mainly], provided I get flinch support. Flinching Magnezone to death is pretty awesome, too.




Forretress (M) @ Leftovers - Trait: Sturdy - EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk - Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Volt Switch
- Pain Split
- Spikes
- Rapid Spin

Now this is a pretty different Forretress set. Firstly, Volt Switch is there to do damage/get away from 2 of the Pokemon that walk all over Forretress; Gyarados and Magnezone. I'm considering switching out Pain Split for T-Spikes, but Pain Split does allow me to casually set up Spikes against Pokemon like Choiced Haxorus and Blissey that do a decent amount of damage to me, each turn. Once I'm down to around 20-25%, I pain Split and I can either switch out to a more appropriate counter or stall them to hell and back. The reason Forry has Max Def/Bold is because I can use it to take an incredible amount of hits against Physical attackers that are on a "timer", whether they're poisoned or taking steady damage from LO+Weather, or something of that nature, Forretress can ultimately get them to suicide while brushing off their attacks.



Jellicent (M) @ Leftovers - Trait: Water Absorb - EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 Spd - Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)

- Scald
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt
- Recover

Jellicent is essentially the 5th Generation's gift to Stall. Like, Blissey, it performs 2 important functions but only uses up on slot on a team of 6. Jellicent's ability to play the role of a Bulky Water and Spin Blocker is extremely beneficial to the team. Will O Wisp cripples an astonishing amount of Pokemon that Jellicent would otherwise have trouble with, like Gyarados, Tyranitar, Scizor and Ferrothorn, [provided it doesn't miss -__-]. With its current speed, Jellicent outspeeds Skarmory with no Speed EVs, as well as standard Jellicent, which is at 168 Speed, if I recall correctly. With Taunt, I can shut down both of the aforementioned Pokemon, as well as many others, and just stall them out with Scald and Burn. Jellicent is so vital as a Spin Blocker because it not only stops Pokemon like Forretress from Spinning, but it stops them from setting up hazards as well.







Gliscor (M) @ Toxic Orb - Trait: Poison Heal -EVs: 240 HP / 12 Atk / 184 Def / 72 Spd - Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)

- Toxic
- Taunt
- Ice Fang
- Earthquake

Gliscor is the second Pokemon in my tandem of Physical walls and like Jirachi, is here mainly because it checks some of the most ferocious Pokemon in the metagame, mainly Terrakion and Excadrill. The best part about Gliscor, is how effective Toxic is. If I send in Gliscor on their Excadrill, they're probably going to switch into their Latios or Rotom-W, unless they have Frustration. Getting Toxic on special attackers with Recovery is a huge help to my team and Gliscor usually accomplishes that since very few Poison or Steel Types can beat it [Roserade and +2 Lucario with Ice Punch are the only ones that come to mind]. Gliscor is the ultimate wall under Reflect support and can deal with the Metagame's best even when they're at +6, so long as Reflect is up. Taunt is great for handling Ferrothorn, Conkeldurr and Scrafty without Ice Punch.




Cresselia (F) @ Leftovers -Trait: Levitate - EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk - Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)

- Reflect
- Moonlight
- Ice Beam
- Psychic

Hi Landorus, meet the most underrated Pokemon of the 5th Generation. Cresselia got a great gift from the 5th Generation in Team Preview. There are no longer any surprise Scizor and Tyranitar that switch in and trap you and even if they do manage to get in, Reflect nerfs the damage brought on by Pursuit, anyways. With Reflect up, Cresselia does what few Pokemon can boast about. It can take down powerful Physical Sweepers like Conkeldurr, Landorus and Dragonite. Ice Beam+Psychic has amazing coverage and Reflect can also be used to extend its effects to Gliscor, so that he can handle Excadrill and Terrakion and break their balloons while Stone Edge/Return/Rock Slide can't 2HKO like it normally could at +2. Honestly, Cresselia is a great Pokemon and extremely underrated. The support it provides is amazing and it effectively destroys a huge percentage of Physical Sweepers that would otherwise rip a hole through my team.


Past Team Members




In past versions of this team, I have used Tyranitar, Suicune and Quagsire. I ran a Tyranitar similar to the one in Solum's Core which functioned as Weather Control, an SR Layer and Specially Defensive wall, but soon nixed it in favor of Blissey, since the team desperately needed a cleric and Blissey could lay SR and function as a Specially Defensive wall, as well as absolve the team of status. Suicune was mainly there as a gimmick and a means of beating Gliscor. I soon deemed it an ineffective option [which it was] and went with Quagsire over it. Quagsire basically attempted to do what Cresselia does now, but after it kept getting smashed by things like CC from Terrakion and couldn't do anything back, I knew it was time for a change and that I'd have to find better means of dispatching Physical Set Up Sweepers. Cresselia was finalized as the 6th Team member because Reflect could virtually do the same things unaware did and also be "passed" [since it lasts 5 turns] to more appropriate counters for certain sweepers.

Threat List



-Minor Threats are in Yellow
-Medium Level Threads are in Orange
-Major Threats are in Red

Offensive Threats:

Aerodactyl -Gliscor and Cresselia both wall Aerodactyl pretty well and Forretress can spin away SR and then Pain Split once EQ takes it down to around 25%.
Breloom -If Toxic Orb hasn't activated, I usually let Forretress take the Spore and send in Gliscor. If Gliscor is gone, Cresselia can manage it.
Chandelure- With SR up, it can only switch in 3 times, and Scarf versions are laughable, but SubCM is the reason I'm considering running TSpikes on Forry. SubCM Chandelure is this team's bane, as Jirachi, the team's "Destroyer" of CM Sweepers, is beaten easily by Chandelure. Blissey can do nothing to it, Jellicent is weak to Shadow and Energy Ball, and Gliscor+Cresselia don't have the Special Defense to outlast its attacks. No need to mention Forry here. Honestly, I'm glad people are starting to realize this thing isn't the best choice, with Pokemon like Terrakion, Tyranitar, etc dominating the tier, because SubCM Chandelure is truly the bane of this team.
Conkeldurr - Gliscor can Taunt it so it can't Bulk Up, but really can't do much in return, so I usually just go to Cresselia and then do Reflect+Psychic, the latter of which 3HKO's.
Darmanitan -Darmanitan is a bit of a problem when in Sun and since I have no means of controlling weather, it will be in sun. I usually just sacrifice things until it Suicides but Cresselia can take a Flare Blitz and get up Reflect, which allows me to go send in Gliscor and beat it.
Deoxys-S - Jirachi usually beats it, although a number of my Pokemon can take it down with ease, depending on what set it runs.
Dragonite -Dragonite is countered very hard by Cresselia and will rarely defeat it unless it stalls out Reflect with Roost, DD and MultiScale. Gliscor can also get Toxic on it and hit it for decent damage with Ice Fang. Finally, as a last resort, Jirachi can Psych Up a DD if its locked into outrage and then proceed to kill it with hax.
Empoleon - Blissey if its Special, Jellicent if its Physical, not too much of a threat to this team.
Espeon - Jirachi can beat it, even if it has HP Fire or Calm Mind.
Excadrill - Gliscor can consistently beat it if it lacks Return/Frustration, Cresselia can set up Reflect, and Jellicent can also manage to take a hit from it and then respond with Scald.
Gengar - Jirachi beats it easily while Blissey can PP Stall it.
Gyarados - Forretress is a great lure for this thing, since I can Volt Switch to Jellicent or Cresselia. Once I do, I either burn it or use Reflect, depending on who was switched to. I can also Toxic Gyarados that switch in on Gliscor, or brush off a Waterfall and then Toxic.
Haxorus - DD Haxorus is beaten/stopped by the Cresselia/Gliscor combo and Choice Haxorus are either stalled out by Forretress, or beaten by Gliscor or Jirachi, depending on what it's locked into.
Heatran - Gliscor outspeeds and kills the defensive ones, Jellicent and Blissey handle the offensively oriented variants.
Heracross - Cresselia would be appropriate here, as long as it doesn't switch into Megahorn. Jellicent and Gliscor could probably do decent against it, as well.
Hydreigon - Blissey and Jirachi beat it easily, although Jirachi has a bit of trouble taking Flamethrower, but most are usually choiced, so Jellicent would be appropriate if it were locked into Flamethrower.
Infernape - Cresselia and Jellicent both beat most Infernape variants.
Jirachi - Gliscor laughs at it, while Jellicent can burn it. It's also total Spike set up fodder for Forretress. The SubCM ones are a bit annoying, but I don't see many of those, anymore.
Jolteon - Blissey beats it easily, it also takes a ton of damage from hazards and its lack of vitality soon makes it unable to take more than one attack, once residual damage has built up.
Kingdra - Jellicent and Cresselia both beat DD Variants, Special Kingdra are handled by Blissey.
Kyurem - Mixed Kyurem are beaten by Jirachi, Special by Blissey and Physical by Jirachi or Cresselia.
Landorus - Cresselia destroys it, Gliscor and Jellicent can dent it pretty hard as well, and their bulk allows them to take a Stone Edge or two.
Latios -Jirachi, Blissey if its Choiced or lacks Psyshock.
Lilligant - Sleep Powder is annoying, so I usually let Forry take it. From then on, it can be stopped by Blissey, and Quiver Dance is just a real treat for Jirachi.
Lucario - Gliscor, as long as I don't let it get to +2 and Ice Punch me. I use Blissey for the special ones and Jellicent/Gliscor can potentially deal with mixed.
Machamp - Cresselia beats it on paper, as does Jellicent, but once hax sets in, it's very annoying and ends up causing a casualty or two, due to Confusion hax. I mainly try and stall it out of Dynamicpunch with Forretress, Cresselia, Gliscor and Jellicent before I try to attack it.
Magnezone - Very annoying, but if it dares to Sub against Forretress, then I Volt Switch out to Blissey and break the sub. If it isn't playing any games and just HP Fires me, then Gliscor revenge kills it.
Mamoswine - Cresselia is a great way to beat Mamoswine because it is immune to its main STAB and can set up Reflect. Jellicent is a nice way of beating it, as well.
Metagross - Gliscor beats it most of the time, Jellicent can burn and Cresselia can Reflect and then switch if it isn't critted or flinched [which it sometimes is].
Mienshao - Cresselia, Jellicent and Gliscor [if it lacks HP Ice] all beat Mienshao.
Reuniclus - Jirachi beats it so well, it's not even funny. Jellicent can Taunt it and it can be PP Stalled, as a last resort, if Jirachi has fainted.
Roserade - Blissey can handle it, I usually let Forretress take the Sleep Powder. Jirachi can also beat it, if it lacks HP Fire or Ground.
Salamence - Cresselia usually beats it with Ice Beam and a combo of Gliscor/Jirachi can win against it, depending on what it's running. If Cresselia is fainted by the time Salamence surfaces, it's up to Gliscor to take a Fire Blast, even if it does, it usually sweeps me.
Sawsbuck - Very underrated and powerful. I usually use Cresselia and set up Reflect, followed by Ice Beam. If Cresselia has been defeated, I go to Gliscor, which can take a +2 Horn Leech/Return
Scizor - Jellicent can beat it as long as WoW hits. Gliscor can Taunt the SD Versions and with Spikes and SR up, the U-Turn spamming ones usually get hit with Seismic Toss from Bissey, once or twice and end up dying; they lack the vitality to keep switching in and out.
Scrafty- Scrafty is a bit of a problem, since Cresselia can't do much to it and Crunch is SE against Cress. Gliscor can Taunt and then Toxic [hoping Shed Skin doesn't activate] and eventually wear it down, if it lacks Ice Punch. Finally, Jirachi can usually take a +1 Drain Punch and Psych Up, and possibly kill the DD Variants with hax, it nearly always beats the Bulk Up ones with Psych Up, since I always outspeed it and gain defense to take its hits.
Shaymin - Shaymin is quite annoying, especially if its running HP Fire/Ground or Leech Seed, because then Jirachi will be unable to beat it. Seed Flare rips through Blissey, although a Blissey/Jirachi combo can help to stall it out of its attacks.
Sigilyph - Very underrated, very dangerous. I usually just have to stall it out of Psycho Shift and then Jirachi will be able to swipe its CP Boosts, if it's CM, then killing it is even easier. Nonetheless, this is a Pokemon to be wary of.
Smeargle - Forry gets spored while Jirachi steals all of its boosts.
Starmie -Natural Cure and Recover make this thing very annoying, but Blissey can just stall it to death unless Hydro Pump crits, variants without T-Bolt are much easier to handle for Jellicent, meaning I can keep my hazards on the field and just stall it to death as it does minimal damage and can't Spin.
Terrakion - This is one of the strongest Pokemon in OU, and everyone is starting to realize it. Terrakion can pretty much smash everything at +2, and an Air Balloon allows it to beat things like Gliscor. If it has a Balloon, then I go to Cresselia, proceed to Reflect, then Psychic it, followed by a switch back to Gliscor to deliver the final blow. I'm sometimes able to burn it if it switches in on Jellicent [as a last ditch effort of sorts, Reflect+Jellicent is also viable in beating it, same goes for Reflect and Jirachi, and I've also found Toxic from Scor, and then Reflect from Cresselia to be another way of defeating it. Even with all of those methods, Terrakion is a menace and I usually have to be extremely wary of it.
Thundurus - If I get a Toxic on it as it switches into Gliscor, that really helps me in beating it, but like Terrakion, it's so insanely powerful that I have trouble doing so, as even Blissey takes a ton of damage from +2 Focus Blast. Even so, Blissey can usually beat it, if it uses up a turn on Taunt. On the very slight chance that Blissey can't handle it, it will probably rip through the team, although Blissey almost always beats it, so there's nothing to worry about.
Tornadus - Jirachi beats it, even if its packing Hammer Arm, which I usually scout for, before I let Blissey stay in against it.
Tyranitar - I always try to get status on this thing to wear it down, whether it be through Toxic or WoW, then I keep Scor in if it lacks Ice Beam, or use Jirachi if it does have Ice Beam.
Venusaur - Venusaur is another Pokemon this team doesn't like. Most are special, so Gliscor can't beat it. The good thing about the Physical and Mixed ones is that they get burned when they switch into Jellicent. Blissey usually has trouble beating even the Special Ones, as Growth takes its SpAtk to great heights.
Victini - I usually do the same thing I do with Darmanitan, I juse let it get off one V-Create and then send in Gliscor to revenge kill or set up Reflect if Cresselia survives it.
Virizion - Jirachi beats the CM Virizon, Cresselia beats the SD and Mixed ones.
Volcarona - Volcarona is technically as good as the team around it and the player commanding that team. If my opponent manages to get me in a situation where Jellicent is forced to die, then their spinner can absolve their team of SR and Volcarona can switch in unharmed. If I do have SR, then Blissey beats Volcarona easily, unless they have Morning Sun or Rest on them, but Blissey usually can handle Volcarona.
Weavile - Jirachi beats it pretty easily, Jellicent can usually Burn it if it switches in.
Zoroark - Blissey beats the common special versions, the physical ones can be handled collectively, once I figure out what they're running. The hard part is finding out if a Pokemon is Zoroark in disguise, or not.

Defensive Threats:

Blissey - Jirachi can flinch it to death with Spikes support and Gliscor can beat it with the Taunt/Toxic/EQ combo, Jellicent can also do the same with Taunt and Scald if need be.
Bronzong - Easily beaten by Jellicent, beaten by Blissey if it doesn't have a large Attack investiment/Choice Band and Spikes fodder for Forretress.
Celebi - NP Celebi is very annoying for the same reasons Starmie is, and worse because it can boost, since almost all of them carry HP Fire and outspeed him, Jirachi also dies to it. Very hard for this team to beat.
Chansey - Handled in the same exact way Blissey is handled.
Deoxys-D - I just use Toxic on it and let it worsen as it tries to stall me out, I usually send in Forry against it, to get rid of the Spikes it tries to lay.
Dusclops - I just Toxic it with Gliscor and then stall it out, since it can't hit me with Status.
Ferrothorn - I try and get a Burn on it with Jellicent and then Taunt, but since WoW usually misses, Taunt+EQ Gliscor is another option. Forretress can also set up spikes on it, whilst spinning away Leech Seed and the Spikes it lays.
Forretress - Jellicent eats it, Gliscor can Taunt its spikes, Blissey beats it, not a threat at all.
Gliscor - Cresselia beats Gliscor 100%, as long as it isn't a Sand Veil one of has Toxic, although it can't outstall forever and Cresselia beats it with Ice Beam, Jellicent is also somewhat viable here.
Hippowdon - Jellicent and Gliscor eat it with Taunt+Status+Attacks, Forry sets up Spikes all over it.
Jellicent - My own Jellicent usually works here, if I do get into a speed tie with Jellicent ev'd in the same way as my own, Gliscor can take a Scald and then Toxic it, allowing Blissey to come in against it and just stall it to death.
Latias - Jirachi is an 100% counter, but I usually have to end up PP Stalling it, if I can't get Toxic or WoW on it, it also causes quite a bit of trouble for me, if Jirachi has fainted.
Murkrow - Never fought one, but I assume Jirachi beats it.
Ninetales - Blissey beats it easily.
Politoed - Blissey and Jellicent laugh at it, Gliscor usually uses Toxic ones the ones that switch in to him.
Porygon2 - Jirachi can usually manage it, as can Jellicent with Taunt, if they lack Thunderbolt, same goes for Gliscor if they lack or have been stalled out of Ice Beam.
Rotom-W - They always switch into Gliscor, so I hope they enjoy their Toxic, same goes for Jellicent and WoW. Blissey can just stall them to death once they have status on them.
Skarmory - Forretress sets up all over it, Gliscor taunts it and it suicides, Jellicent absolutely embarrasses it.
Snorlax - Jellicent can Will O Wisp and then Taunt, Jirachi can Psych Up and then Hax it, Gliscor can Taunt and EQ.
Suicune - Manageable if they lack rest, if they don't, then they're a bit of a problem for the team.
Swampert - Jellicent can Taunt to prevent Roar, Toxic, SR, etc and then WoW it so that it becomes Obsolete.
Tentacruel -Jellicent can WoW and then Taunt, Toxic Spikes aren't a huge problem as only two of my Pokemon are affected by them.
Vaporeon - I have to outstall it, since it has Hydration, it's not as threatening as Suicune since it isn't a Set Up Sweeper.
Whimsicott - Rapid Spin has 64 PP, Leech Seed has 16. [Forry just outstalls it and usually gets up a layer of spikes as it subs first].
Xatu - Blissey if it lacks Psyshock, Jirachi if it doesn't.
Zapdos -Blissey can stall it to death.

-Credit to Haunter/Smogon for the Threat List, PiNkOpHiLiC for the Forretress art used in the logo and Pokesho/Bulbapedia for the Sprites-
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  #2    
Old August 1st, 2011 (09:59 AM).
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Woot, first comment :D

I would recommend using the choice scarf set for Jirachi. It's not necissarily a Stall pokemon, but that will take care of most of your problems. Iron Head will take out Scrafty, Chandelure, and Terrakion. (It will also take out anything it outspeeds the majority of the time due to the 60% flinch rate.) Ice Punch will destroy Mence, Sigylph, Venusaur, Celebi, and Shaymin. Fire Punch handles Shaymin, Venusaur, and Celebi. Thunder Punch gives the last means of taking out your threats by killing Sigylph and Suicune. However, if you do that, you will need to make Blissey your Wish Passer.

I've played stall before, and trust me, you will want Jirachi to take out things you can't beat otherwise.
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  #3    
Old August 1st, 2011 (11:01 AM).
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Exile Exile is offline
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Quote originally posted by cartercr:
Woot, first comment :D

I would recommend using the choice scarf set for Jirachi. It's not necissarily a Stall pokemon, but that will take care of most of your problems. Iron Head will take out Scrafty, Chandelure, and Terrakion. (It will also take out anything it outspeeds the majority of the time due to the 60% flinch rate.) Ice Punch will destroy Mence, Sigylph, Venusaur, Celebi, and Shaymin. Fire Punch handles Shaymin, Venusaur, and Celebi. Thunder Punch gives the last means of taking out your threats by killing Sigylph and Suicune. However, if you do that, you will need to make Blissey your Wish Passer.

I've played stall before, and trust me, you will want Jirachi to take out things you can't beat otherwise.
Thanks for the rate. Choice Scarf Jirachi would help in defeating a lot of the threats you mentioned, but it would leave me open to a ton of threats that I couldn't really handle otherwise. Jirachi is my Scarf absorber, and as fast and helpful as it is with a scarf, I really prefer it the way it is now, as it doesn't need speed to defeat the foes that it's meant to defeat [Reuniclus, etc]. Also, Venusaur outspeeds because of Chlorophyll and Iron Head doesn't beat Chandelure. Iron Head, Psych Up and Wish are just so invaluable to the team, that I don't think I'm willing to sacrifice them and play the Scarf prediction game, even Protect is valuable to stall out Toxic and manage to beat Pokemon that 3HKO or 4HKO me.
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Old August 1st, 2011 (01:09 PM).
Vrai Vrai is offline
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This obviously is a really good team with some innovative strategies (I'm looking at you, Psych Up.) and it's built to the point that removing/changing one particular aspect is going to affect how you deal with something else.

I honestly think that the biggest threat of all here for you is DD Scrafty, weirdly enough. I mean DD generally isn't something that stall teams have trouble with since a lot carry Skarmory, etc. There's no quick-fix to any of your threats. I'm not sure if Toxic Spikes repoisons after Shed Skin takes it away but I honestly think Toxic Spikes would be of good help to you (beating Chandy, Shaymin, and NP Bi while you just stall them out). I dunno how exactly it'd work on Scrafty but it would also put Moxie variants on a timer and at least give some damage to the Shed Skin variants. It also forces opposing Suicune to rest more often and you can take advantage of that to Psych Up with Jirachi and stall it out or something idk lol. I think it's worth it to test Toxic Spikes, at the very least.

Beyond that, I'm kinda stuck on what to suggest, really. Skarmory is an option over Gliscor but the positives of that kinda underweigh the negatives of losing Scor. I do want to mention that you should change the gender of Forry to female, in case you run into Rivalry Haxorus. ;-; If I come up with anything else I'll shout it out, but... idek, you've got a pretty good team on your hands here. :(
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  #5    
Old August 1st, 2011 (02:23 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Vrai:
This obviously is a really good team with some innovative strategies (I'm looking at you, Psych Up.) and it's built to the point that removing/changing one particular aspect is going to affect how you deal with something else.

I honestly think that the biggest threat of all here for you is DD Scrafty, weirdly enough. I mean DD generally isn't something that stall teams have trouble with since a lot carry Skarmory, etc. There's no quick-fix to any of your threats. I'm not sure if Toxic Spikes repoisons after Shed Skin takes it away but I honestly think Toxic Spikes would be of good help to you (beating Chandy, Shaymin, and NP Bi while you just stall them out). I dunno how exactly it'd work on Scrafty but it would also put Moxie variants on a timer and at least give some damage to the Shed Skin variants. It also forces opposing Suicune to rest more often and you can take advantage of that to Psych Up with Jirachi and stall it out or something idk lol. I think it's worth it to test Toxic Spikes, at the very least.

Beyond that, I'm kinda stuck on what to suggest, really. Skarmory is an option over Gliscor but the positives of that kinda underweigh the negatives of losing Scor. I do want to mention that you should change the gender of Forry to female, in case you run into Rivalry Haxorus. ;-; If I come up with anything else I'll shout it out, but... idek, you've got a pretty good team on your hands here. :(
Thanks for the suggestions and compliments, Vrai, and I'm probably going to run TSPikes from now on, seeing as to how I have Wish support, I never thought about the Rivalry thing so I should probably change that now. Finally, after some more play testing, DD Scrafty is actually handled quite well by Jirachi. I was thinking of Skarm over Gliscor, as then I could possibly free up Forretress or Blissey's movesets since Skarmory can carry Spikes, I could give SR or T-Spikes to Forry, etc. The downside with Skarmory is that it can't really /do/ anything, other than Whirlwind, to mons like Terrakion, Excadrill and the like, it might work, and Toxic is my best means of dealing with Rotom-W [which always switch in on Scor kekeke], Skarm can only Whirlwind out predicted Rotom-W switch ins, and the lack of Toxic means PP Stalling is my best bet to win in the end. I'll definitely test Skarmory out, though, it's been in the back of my mind for a while. UGH WHO GAVE SCRAFTY SHED SKIN HNNNG, it already got 2 good abilities.
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  #6    
Old August 1st, 2011 (02:43 PM). Edited August 1st, 2011 by Dark Azelf.
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Anyway im bored and I spent a long time on a reply but PC being terrible killed it. :/

Ill just bullet point what i did. I tested this, i hope you dont mind lol.

Main problems is your lack of PHazers which makes you <Stat up mon weak>.

  • Replace Jirachi with SR/Roar/Lava Plume/Filler max sp.def Calm Heatran (i used Toxic, i liked loling at Rotom-W, water, dragon etc switch ins). Covers Chandelure and Sun well.
  • Blissey wants Toxic/Aroma/Softboiled/S-Toss. No Toxic makes you Sub Mind Latias, Volcarona weak and you no longer need SR with Tran around.
  • Put Wish/Roar/Scald/Protect Vap over Cress. Cress sucks, doesnt do anything and is set up fodder. In contrast Vap has great synergy with Heatran and Forry. Maintain Wish. PHaze BS SmashPass Gorebyss.
  • Forry wants max hp and sp.def @ Relaxed. Gyro Ball > Pain Split plus Vap is an easy Wish Passer to Forry. Volt Switch as your only move = lol. Smogon Forry gen 5 analysis doesnt make the best of its ability this gen. You NEED Gyro Ball for Haxorus, Scrafty and Landorus as well as being your best STAB move. Remember to make it Female with 0 Speed Ivs to crush rivalry abusers. Evs maximise sp.def whilst not losing much defense which lets you take neutral special hits well. T-Spikes are optional over Volt Switch.
  • Cohagrigus with Haze/Hex/Wisp/Rest over Jellicent. Beats Sigilyph, checks Reuniclus, Espy SmashPass and last poke. If you're using Aroma Bliss, abuse it.
I think thats it... covers basically all your weaks. Hope it helps.

EDIT: Also 244 > 240 HP Evs on Gliscor. Hits a Poison Heal number. Really just max it though unless 12 Att evs do something out of this world lol.
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  #7    
Old August 1st, 2011 (03:20 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Dark Azelf:
Anyway im bored and I spent a long time on a reply but PC being terrible killed it. :/

Ill just bullet point what i did. I tested this, i hope you dont mind lol.

Main problems is your lack of PHazers which makes you <Stat up mon weak>.

  • Replace Jirachi with SR/Roar/Lava Plume/Filler max sp.def Calm Heatran (i used Toxic, i liked loling at Rotom-W, water, dragon etc switch ins). Covers Chandelure and Sun well.
  • Blissey wants Toxic/Aroma/Softboiled/S-Toss. No Toxic makes you Sub Mind Latias, Volcarona weak and you no longer need SR with Tran around.
  • Put Wish/Roar/Scald/Protect Vap over Cress. Cress sucks, doesnt do anything and is set up fodder. In contrast Vap has great synergy with Heatran and Forry. Maintain Wish. PHaze BS SmashPass Gorebyss.
  • Forry wants max hp and sp.def @ Relaxed. Gyro Ball > Pain Split plus Vap is an easy Wish Passer to Forry. Volt Switch as your only move = lol. Smogon Forry gen 5 analysis doesnt make the best of its ability this gen. You NEED Gyro Ball for Haxorus, Scrafty and Landorus as well as being your best STAB move. Remember to make it Female with 0 Speed Ivs to crush rivalry abusers. Evs maximise sp.def whilst not losing much defense which lets you take neutral special hits well. T-Spikes are optional over Volt Switch.
  • Cohagrigus with Haze/Hex/Wisp/Rest over Jellicent. Beats Sigilyph, checks Reuniclus, Espy SmashPass and last poke. If you're using Aroma Bliss, abuse it.
I think thats it... covers basically all your weaks. Hope it helps. ^^

EDIT: Also 244 > 240 HP Evs on Gliscor. Hits a Poison Heal number. Really just max it though unless 12 Att evs do something out of this world lol.
Thanks for the rate, Elf, I smiled when I saw that you had posted here. Heatran seems like a very good suggestion, I'll be sure to try it out. To be honest, if Smogon banned Reuniclus and Latios during the next suspect round [which they totally should], I'd definitely go with Heatran over Jirachi, as Jirachi is the best surefire counter to them and is almost needed on defensive teams that lack Perish Song, as long as those two are wreaking havoc. Honestly, I don't find Cresselia to be that bad, Ice Beam slays Dragons, Psychic beats things like Toxicroak, Roob, etc and all their boosts mean nothing as long as Reflect is up. With such a small Defense stat, [albeit it has a huge Base HP stat] I'm not sure Vappy beat Pokemon like Landorus and Gliscor, which Cresselia dispatches with ease. Honestly, Volt Switch isn't used as an attack, really. It's mainly to switch out of Magnet Pulls or hit Gyarados for about 30%-40% and then switch to an appropriate counter. I'm hesitant about Gyro Ball since it only does around 30% to standard offensive Haxorus sets and even less to Scrafty. Cresselia +Reflect are the team's true Physical Walls, since Cresselia, or whichever mon has Reflect over it can actually "do stuff" other than Spin and lay spikes like Forry, allowing me to defeat Physical sweepers before they set up. About Cohagrigus, would I be running Max HP/Max SpD Calm? Because I've played with Physically Defensive Cohagrigus before and Rank dents it pretty hard, and it can't do much back, I really never found it to be a Rank counter. I just changed the EVs on Scor, thanks for catching that, I think I got the 12 Attack from an RMT or something, I can't really remember.
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  #8    
Old August 1st, 2011 (03:39 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Karpman:
Thanks for the rate, Elf, I smiled when I saw that you had posted here.

I was bored lol

Heatran seems like a very good suggestion, I'll be sure to try it out. To be honest, if Smogon banned Reuniclus and Latios during the next suspect round [which they totally should], I'd definitely go with Heatran over Jirachi, as Jirachi is the best surefire counter to them and is almost needed on defensive teams that lack Perish Song, as long as those two are wreaking havoc.

Well, Cohagrigus beats Reuniclus decently thanks to Haze and Shadow Ball.

Honestly, I don't find Cresselia to be that bad, Ice Beam slays Dragons, Psychic beats things like Toxicroak, Roob, etc and all their boosts mean nothing as long as Reflect is up. With such a small Defense stat, [albeit it has a huge Base HP stat] I'm not sure Vappy beat Pokemon like Landorus and Gliscor, which Cresselia dispatches with ease.

Gliscor already destroys Landorus and if it has HP Ice it means it has no SD so Vap wins. You arent Landorus weak at all. Glis also beats Roob.

Honestly, Volt Switch isn't used as an attack, really. It's mainly to switch out of Magnet Pulls or hit Gyarados for about 30%-40% and then switch to an appropriate counter. I'm hesitant about Gyro Ball since it only does around 30% to standard offensive Haxorus sets and even less to Scrafty.

At least it does more than Volt Switch to Haxorus. Does 42% - 49.5% to Haxorus btw. :] Forry needs his Gyro Ball, its a waste not to have it. You check RP Landorus, Haxorus, ALL Virizion versions and so much more with it. Gyro/Switch/Spin/Spikes is the best set for it imo.

Cresselia +Reflect are the team's true Physical Walls, since Cresselia, or whichever mon has Reflect over it can actually "do stuff" other than Spin and lay spikes like Forry, allowing me to defeat Physical sweepers before they set up. About Cohagrigus, would I be running Max HP/Max SpD Calm? Because I've played with Physically Defensive Cohagrigus before and Rank dents it pretty hard, and it can't do much back, I really never found it to be a Rank counter.

Put evs into both defenses. Shadow Ball 2hko's btw and Haze eliminates CM boosts. Trick Room sets lose to Bliss and Glis.

The reason i dislike Cress, is well because it simply isnt very good on stall. Stall is very hard pressed for slots utility wise and its very weak and really does grant alot of set up opportunities with no status. That and other pokemon beat what it does better imo. However it does cover stupid junk like DD Nite well.


I just changed the EVs on Scor, thanks for catching that, I think I got the 12 Attack from an RMT or something, I can't really remember.

Comments in bold.


I did some more tests and tried Skarm over Forry and Starmie over Vap. That kinda worked too as i was Dnite weak without Cress, but Rain was annoying with Specs Politoed/CB Gyara without Vap's or Jelli's water absorb lol. :/ So i mean its up to you really. The original team works fine as it is, but lack of PHazing is really noticeable in practise so you'll want to squeeze that in definately.
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