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  #51    
Old November 17th, 2013 (08:33 AM).
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Originally Posted by KittenKoder View Post
Try this, take the word "gun" out of the equation, this is really a debate on how to further reduce violent criminal activity, and there has been only one proven method for that, short of removing everyone's freedom.
I would disagree. There are still issues of young people, particularly young boys and men, using guns to commit suicide and there's the wider issue of children getting their hands on guns. Also, there's the problem of domestic disputes (in households where no party is a criminal) getting out of control and guns being brought in - there's a domestic violence issue that guns can exacerbate.

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Education, or at least better education. For one thing, challenging people tends to distract them from such thoughts as "I want to see this person dead." Not to mention, the more a person knows about reality, the less they are inclined to turn to criminal activity for any reason.
I would agree with this though. Better education can go a very long way. It's probably not entirely coincidental that among developed countries the US is pretty low in terms of education quality and also pretty high in terms of violence.

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  #52    
Old November 17th, 2013 (11:53 AM).
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I would disagree. There are still issues of young people, particularly young boys and men, using guns to commit suicide and there's the wider issue of children getting their hands on guns. Also, there's the problem of domestic disputes (in households where no party is a criminal) getting out of control and guns being brought in - there's a domestic violence issue that guns can exacerbate.


I would agree with this though. Better education can go a very long way. It's probably not entirely coincidental that among developed countries the US is pretty low in terms of education quality and also pretty high in terms of violence.
Notice how you mention the real problem, then say "and they got a gun?" Remove the gun part from the equation on all of those. Just try it, suicide and abuse we can address, those are serious problems, does the fact there is a gun involved change how serious they are? If so, then you are saying there are acceptable forms of suicide and abuse.
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  #53    
Old November 17th, 2013 (12:01 PM).
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Originally Posted by KittenKoder View Post
Notice how you mention the real problem, then say "and they got a gun?" Remove the gun part from the equation on all of those. Just try it, suicide and abuse we can address, those are serious problems, does the fact there is a gun involved change how serious they are? If so, then you are saying there are acceptable forms of suicide and abuse.
I don't know if the availability of guns affects the suicide rate (it probably doesn't) but suicide by shooting is nonetheless violent. Hmm, that's true, I don't see how guns would make suicide "worse".
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  #54    
Old November 17th, 2013 (12:08 PM).
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I don't know if the availability of guns affects the suicide rate (it probably doesn't) but suicide by shooting is nonetheless violent. Hmm, that's true, I don't see how guns would make suicide "worse".
Precisely my point.

There are millions of ways to kill yourself, and suicide is not an act of convenience, it's planned and plotted long before the act. Putting "with a gun" doesn't make suicide about guns all of the sudden.

Abuse is very common, especially in the US, from and between parental units. It devastates lives, and even causes death in some cases. Does adding the fact there was a gun in the house make the abusive behavior all about guns? I would hope not.
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