The true love stuff is a lie.

countryemo · Nov 19, 2013

Wow this discussion is H.e.a.t.e.d.

Yes Lust is physcial, yes infatuation is pretty chemically. Yes Love may just be a group of a bunch of different things that were trying to make sense of.

I think anger and hurt are part of love, that we cannot have love with out these feelings. Love isn't meant to be a all great and happy force. I think true love is real. Something two humans can feel that is almost pure.

And about being purely physical isn't that true. Physical is always nice, so is beauty. But which beauty counts? Exterior or Interior? Getting to know someone, their personality is what makes up true beauty and thats what you fall in love with.

Plumpyfoof · Nov 19, 2013

Okay so I think some things here need some clarification.
Lust is purely physical attraction
Love is any combination of emotional and physical attraction

Romance is not procreation. If you time sex wrong it can entirely ruin the romance of a date, or even relationship for that matter.

Yes, technically every thought, feeling, and desire is chemical when you look at it scientifically. It's the social implication of these reactions that bring meaning into out otherwise mundane existence. This thread is for the discussion of philosophical implications of love and not it's scientific characteristics

Now that we are all on the same page:

I think that more than a few people here on PC are having some difficulties finding love, but you have to remember that people don't just spawn in your bedroom.
The odds are stacked very high against you to find some one you share a real bond that you could relate to "True love".
The best way to meet potential partners is to literally go out with people, talk to girls/guys, make friends and don't take it to heart when you get shut down. You will get shut down guaranteed.

@ShinyHoundoom92 I know you said you tried so I have a few behavioural modifications if your willing to try again. Just keep in mind that I don't know anything about you, so I'm just going to aim you in the right direction you may very well be doing some of these things already. Just don't get offended

Spoiler:

The first step is to start changing a few things about yourself. This is not you being a poser or being any less 'you' this is making 'you' more attractive and interesting, but it's not how it sounds.
First thing first, your appearance. You can't change how you look physically for obvious reasons and you don't need to be attractive, you need to trick people into thinking you are. Dress to your body shape, if you're really thin wearing fitted (not tight) clothing makes you appear more impressive. If your on the bigger side avoid tight fitting clothes but don't let your clothes become baggy at all. Make your hair look neat, cut it, wash it, as long is it looks like you made an effort you're doing it right. I know it's lame, but serious Pintrest is filled with all the crap that girls think is hot, do that!
Just this alone should help lift your attitude.

So for your attitude. Stop caring about finding someone to 'love', you want to become friends with a girl. Less pressure on you makes it easier for you to be natural and that helps, like a lot.
Not getting prematurely attached to things is also important.
The easiest way to do this is to have your own stuff going on. Career, hobbies, whatever make it a priority and let it take up time. Have goals and ambitions that you are actually passionate about. You will be more self involved and less likely to take it to heart when you get turned away. Don't take this to mean you can put yourself above everyone else, because you need to have some direction in your life.
I can explain with a metaphor. So you're going for a tour through a city you're on vacation at you get quite far away from where you started with no map and you don't speak the language. The tour guide suddenly turns to you and says "So, yeah, I don't know where we are anymore, find your own way home" how does this make you feel? This is what it's like to be a in a relationship with someone who has no idea what they're doing with their life.

You may have noticed a trend. I haven't said anything about how meet girls. This is all you.
I'm not going to tell you how to meet girls here. They differ way too much and I'll likely cause a huge flame war by trying to stereotype everyone. I have given you the easiest way to appear more attractive, by caring about your appearance. This has implications that you care about more than just that. It makes sense, think about it.

KittenKoder · Nov 19, 2013

txteclipse said:
The problem in this case is that there is mystery. We do not fully understand how the brain works, not by a long shot. Human emotion, memory, and consciousness are not currently reducible into a set of rules. We do not have a model for them, nor can we simulate how they work. We have a rudimentary idea of the mechanisms involved, but we have next to no understanding of how those mechanisms interact to form a mind.

You are welcome to believe that the whole of human consciousness is a series of chemical interactions and electricity. However, that doesn't explain anything. Beyond that, it doesn't assign value to anything, which is what people in this thread are trying to do. Chemical reactions and electricity and the knowledge of them are neutral. People are not neutral. We make judgments and have desires and preferences and thoughts and emotions. Therefore I personally think it is ignorant to simply assume that consciousness and chemistry are one and the same. The connection is not yet understood. If I asked you "teach me how to show my fiancée that I care about her," you wouldn't pull out a chemistry book.

Also:

This is not how Occam's Razor works. From Wikipedia (emphasis my own):

"The razor states that one should proceed to simpler theories until simplicity can be traded for greater explanatory power. The simplest available theory need not be most accurate."

Validity of Occam's Razor aside, just because we don't have a thorough understanding currently does not mean our simplest theory is correct. If that were the case, we could go find some buffoon on a street corner and make the world of physics a whole lot more simple. Oftentimes, the best explanations for systems are extremely complex, especially in biology.

Um, so much wrong, so little space. Yes, we do know how the brain works, we create simulators of it all the time, the only flaws in those simulations are hardware limitations, not a lack of understanding. You also misuse Occam's Razor, as when applied to this situation, there is nothing simplistic about invoking magic in place of applying something we do understand quite well.

Just because you don't want to put in the effort to learn about something, does not mean invoking magic is a valid replacement for understanding it.

Here's a watered down description of how love works:

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=your-brain-in-love-graphsci

gimmepie · Nov 19, 2013

I don't see anybody here invoking magic.

We all recognise that there is no special supernatural force pulling us together. But you don't seem to be able to differentiate between physical attraction and emotional connection. They are two distinct things that each have a place in what we call love.

LoudSilence · Nov 20, 2013

KittenKoder said:
Um, so much wrong, so little space. Yes, we do know how the brain works, we create simulators of it all the time, the only flaws in those simulations are hardware limitations, not a lack of understanding.

That's not true.

Wikipedia said:
Even for present-day neuroscience, the mechanisms by which brain activity gives rise to consciousness and thought remain very challenging to understand: despite rapid scientific progress, much about how the brain works remains a mystery. The operations of individual brain cells are now understood in considerable detail, but the way they cooperate in ensembles of millions has yet to be solved.

Plenty of citations in the article, give it a look over. This is not news or some obscure understanding; the results of a simple Google search will yield you plenty of information that contradicts your idea that we've got the brain down to just some chemical/electrical processes.

This is not, by the way, me saying that the brain and emotions are magical and we'll never understand it. One day we will, I'm sure. But emotions and the decisions we make based on them simply are not as mechanical and methodical as you make it out to be. Trust me, I wish they were, would make understanding why I and other people do the stupid things we do a whole lot easier!

Kanzler · Nov 20, 2013

gimmepie said:
I don't see anybody here invoking magic.

We all recognise that there is no special supernatural force pulling us together. But you don't seem to be able to differentiate between physical attraction and emotional connection. They are two distinct things that each have a place in what we call love.

Calling them distinct things is a heuristic that avoids the complexity of what love actually is. It's useful for convincing a girl you don't want to just get in her pants, for example. It's also useful for convincing yourself that you don't want to just get into someone's pants. But I don't think we can observe that distinction in real life without oversimplifying things.

It's one thing to identify the factors that make up your attraction and it's something else to categorize them as distinct. "Physical" attraction and "emotional" connection come to play into each other. I don't think anybody can reasonably say that a person's physical attractiveness isn't influenced by the way she talks or thinks or whatever. Also, the experience of attraction is very subjective. Is fashion physical or emotional? Is body language physical or emotional?

I've outlined some of the difficulty in extricating "physical" and "emotional" charm from each other. At the end of the day, it all goes to your brain where it is coordinated to form your response. Although we can look at attraction and say that something looks a bit more influenced by physical vs. emotion connection, it would be going to far to describe the two as distinct. I find they are far too interlinked to be pulled apart. It could be a clear and easy to understand theoretical model, but love is something that's done in the field.

Dakotah · Nov 20, 2013

Sometimes the best answers to the difficult questions are the simplest ones. They invariably lead to the "D'OH!" response by the questioner.

White Raven · Nov 20, 2013

I just don't bother. I have no interest in anybody, and maybe never will. Maybe it is because I am different. One thing's for sure, I will automatically forget about the all interests towards him/her (not sure of orientation as of now, as I have no interests above friendship) if I am hurt or betrayed or used (in case you are doubting me, no I've done it to a friend who wasn't my friend that betrayed me before).
My friends are all like, "whochalikewhochalikewhochalike" and I'm like, "no one". They look at me and sigh. Well, if I pretended to love someone, and then they found out, I
They'll be hurt. No one has to go that way, poring their heart out and then being betrayed.

Cerberus87 · Nov 20, 2013

You don't have to be asexual to realize love and sex are separate things. But, to a sexualized person, they may be related on a certain level.

I seriously don't know how aromantic (not asexual) do it... It must be some sort of gene. Part of me wishes I had it because of how much I suffered for love... While another part wishes I'd never had it because I enjoyed to feel love towards another person.

LoudSilence · Nov 21, 2013

Jeanne1571 said:
I just don't bother. I have no interest in anybody, and maybe never will. Maybe it is because I am different. One thing's for sure, I will automatically forget about the all interests towards him/her (not sure of orientation as of now, as I have no interests above friendship) if I am hurt or betrayed or used (in case you are doubting me, no I've done it to a friend who wasn't my friend that betrayed me before).
My friends are all like, "whochalikewhochalikewhochalike" and I'm like, "no one". They look at me and sigh. Well, if I pretended to love someone, and then they found out, I
They'll be hurt. No one has to go that way, poring their heart out and then being betrayed.

Really not trying to be condescending here, but I think you've got a lot of years ahead of you before you can be able to decide that. You might not have dealt with those feelings yet and feel like an outcast because everyone around you already has, but don't let that bother you. Everyone is unique and goes through experiences in their own time.

I considered myself unable to feel anything for anyone for a long time. All the way back in junior high school kids were going crazy over their (5th) "love of their life" and I found myself wondering what the big deal was. "People are usually disappointing, not worth emotional investment, what's the point if they break up anyway etc. etc."

My point for saying this is that despite how my emotions worked, I came to realise this world is a big place and that my limited experiences did not mean I will never find anyone. Literally billions of people on earth, all with different viewpoints and ways to look at life...how can we shut it all down so readily, claiming there just won't be anyone for us?

Maybe you really won't ever feel anything, and that's fine too. But don't convince yourself of it because you're too afraid of being disappointed :)

AzuGazer · Nov 21, 2013

see, i think the base of love is that u don't want someone to be out of your life.
cause i think hate is that u want them to never have been in your life.

and another thing about love... it seems like a powerful emotion. very powerful
now dat true love stuff, yes i believe in it BUT it's way, way, way, way, rare. like WAY rare.
but it does happen... though I've only seen it once :I well... twice... unless i also count my Grandparents... then 3 times.

but if i count family love, then I've seen a bunch :D since that's true love, from beginning to end.

in fact i think Asexual people are most likely to find true love, since they can't lust.

Silais · Nov 21, 2013

This may be my own cynicism, but I am not sure love exists in our modern culture. Perhaps those who love truly and deeply are just a minority nowadays, but it's been exceptionally hard for me to find anyone who is not self-absorbed, lustful, and ignorant. I dated a 24-year-old male for one year, but he recently dumped me because he had grown "bored" with our relationship; I had initially picked an older man because I was hoping for a higher level of maturity. I was wrong. I am 19 and dating someone my age, but he's also very immature. Don't get me wrong, he's very loving, passionate and happy—but I can't help but be wary of our relationship. I trust no one.

Dakotah · Nov 21, 2013

Silais said:
This may be my own cynicism, but I am not sure love exists in our modern culture. Perhaps those who love truly and deeply are just a minority nowadays, but it's been exceptionally hard for me to find anyone who is not self-absorbed, lustful, and ignorant. I dated a 24-year-old male for one year, but he recently dumped me because he had grown "bored" with our relationship; I had initially picked an older man because I was hoping for a higher level of maturity. I was wrong. I am 19 and dating someone my age, but he's also very immature. Don't get me wrong, he's very loving, passionate and happy—but I can't help but be wary of our relationship. I trust no one.

You have to learn to trust. Perhaps it is your lack of trust in others that created the barrier in your previous relationship. We have to accept that to love someone is to also risk getting hurt. We can't avoid this for this same risk occurs in any kind of relationship. If we can't accept that risk, if we can't allow our shields to be lowered, even a little, then we are doomed to failure in all our relationships.

Silais · Nov 21, 2013

Jay_37040 said:
You have to learn to trust. Perhaps it is your lack of trust in others that created the barrier in your previous relationship. We have to accept that to love someone is to also risk getting hurt. We can't avoid this for this same risk occurs in any kind of relationship. If we can't accept that risk, if we can't allow our shields to be lowered, even a little, then we are doomed to failure in all our relationships.

It doesn't help that I'm not very attractive and somewhat overweight, either. I'm sure that was one of the main reasons he got tired of me; he could pick any girl out of a crowd and she'd most likely be prettier than me.

I trusted too much. I gave him all of my love and attention and listened to him when he complained constantly about his job, his family, and everything else in his life. Now I trust but verify, I suppose.

Dakotah · Nov 21, 2013

Silais said:
It doesn't help that I'm not very attractive and somewhat overweight, either. I'm sure that was one of the main reasons he got tired of me; he could pick any girl out of a crowd and she'd most likely be prettier than me.

I trusted too much. I gave him all of my love and attention and listened to him when he complained constantly about his job, his family, and everything else in his life. Now I trust but verify, I suppose.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. There is a whole lot more to the beauty of a person than their outward appearance. But one thing I am certain of, if someone we are interested in picks up on our own insecurities, they become wary of us. We have to love ourselves first for someone to love us. If we can't love ourselves, how do we expect others to? That you started your response with the words "I'm not very attractive" speaks volumes to me and to everyone else around you. I would first recommend that you work to learn to love you for who you are. Perfection is an ideal that will never be attained by any of us. Get to the point where you can look in the mirror and say "I like this person" and you'll be amazed at how quickly people recognize the change in you.

Silais · Nov 21, 2013

Jay_37040 said:
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. There is a whole lot more to the beauty of a person than their outward appearance. But one thing I am certain of, if someone we are interested in picks up on our own insecurities, they become wary of us. We have to love ourselves first for someone to love us. If we can't love ourselves, how do we expect others to? That you started your response with the words "I'm not very attractive" speaks volumes to me and to everyone else around you. I would first recommend that you work to learn to love you for who you are. Perfection is an ideal that will never be attained by any of us. Get to the point where you can look in the mirror and say "I like this person" and you'll be amazed at how quickly people recognize the change in you.

I'm simply stating a fact. It's not an insecurity, it's just something that cannot be argued by normal people. I have never received a compliment about my beauty, never had guys flirt with me, was never asked out. I had to pursue the two boyfriends I've had in my lifetime. THAT speaks volumes.

Dakotah · Nov 21, 2013

Silais said:
I'm simply stating a fact. It's not an insecurity, it's just something that cannot be argued by normal people. I have never received a compliment about my beauty, never had guys flirt with me, was never asked out. I had to pursue the two boyfriends I've had in my lifetime. THAT speaks volumes.

I've yet to find a person on this planet who could even remotely be called normal. Certainly I'm not, and I know my boyfriend would argue that he's not, nor the hundreds of people he's talked to on the phone at the call-center he works at. We're all of us unique. And speaking from experience, I'd think being the chaser rather than the chasie is so much better. They say good things come to those who wait, but I call BS on that. Good things come to those who go out and grab it.

Silais · Nov 21, 2013

Jay_37040 said:
I've yet to find a person on this planet who could even remotely be called normal. Certainly I'm not, and I know my boyfriend would argue that he's not, nor the hundreds of people he's talked to on the phone at the call-center he works at. We're all of us unique. And speaking from experience, I'd think being the chaser rather than the chasie is so much better. They say good things come to those who wait, but I call BS on that. Good things come to those who go out and grab it.

Being unattractive and being abnormal are two different things. I would also argue that as a woman, I feel useless and worthless having to trail after a man. Most girls have at least one or two guys trailing after THEM, not the other way around. It's de-feminizing. Men show no interest in me because I have nothing on face value to attract them, so I have to make an extreme effort to incite their interest.

LoudSilence · Nov 21, 2013

Jay it's like you're reading my mind man, have you got telepathy or something? :)

Silais, attractiveness is relative and largely about how you perceive and carry yourself. The fact that so far, in your 19 years (which is a short amount of time believe me) you have never been "pursued" or given a compliment is the definition of anecdotal. Beauty in media might have constants, but beauty as we define it is always up to personal taste and varies largely from person to person.

For example, I think Megan Fox is ridiculously plain, borderline unattractive. People call me crazy because I don't follow the norm which is to consider her drop-dead gorgeous, but the reality is I'm just honest and not following a trend. I have different tastes. This is the case with everyone ever.

There's always going to be someone you like who your friends might not think is attractive and vice versa. Likewise, you yourself have no confidence (I know you say it's just a "fact" but it really is just your perception) but someone else might find you the prettiest girl in the world to them.

You need to be happy with who you are. The weight thing, by the way, is entirely in your hands unless you have a thyroid problem or something of that nature. It is something that can be changed, and thus you cannot include it in the statement that you are "not attractive" as if you have no control over it. Appreciate what you have and how much better you have it than others, and I promise you'll be able to find what you're looking for.

P.S. Men like being pursued believe it or not (girls and their signals, haha...). Don't get pigeonholed into some sort of gender role expectation! The people who wouldn't appreciate it are probably too close-minded to want to be with anyway.

Dakotah · Nov 21, 2013

Silais said:
Being unattractive and being abnormal are two different things. I would also argue that as a woman, I feel useless and worthless having to trail after a man. Most girls have at least one or two guys trailing after THEM, not the other way around. It's de-feminizing. Men show no interest in me because I have nothing on face value to attract them, so I have to make an extreme effort to incite their interest.

I can't speak about what it's like to be a woman. However, as a slightly effeminate gay man, had I not sought out love I very well may not have met my boyfriend of 4 years (5 as of this coming February). I don't regret for an instant being the chaser, but I probably would have regretted it had I been the one wanting to be chased. There's something to be said about going after what you want. It's not a masculine thing or a feminine thing... it's a human thing.

LoudSilence said:
Jay it's like you're reading my mind man, have you got telepathy or something? :)

Nah, I just write stories about telepaths. :)

The true love stuff is a lie.

More options

countryemo

Kicking against the earth!

Plumpyfoof

KittenKoder

I Am No One Else

gimmepie

LoudSilence

more like uncommon sense

Kanzler

Dakotah

White Raven

Working on The Mysterious Meteorite

Cerberus87

Mega Houndoom, baby!

LoudSilence

more like uncommon sense

AzuGazer

Silais

That useless reptile

Dakotah

Silais

That useless reptile

Dakotah

Silais

That useless reptile

Dakotah

Silais

That useless reptile

LoudSilence

more like uncommon sense

Dakotah