What kind of Ash do you want?

I want an Ash that learns, doesn't ditch his Pokemon every new generation, evolves them...
And the opposite of B&W Ash. B&W, in comparison to the original, was very, very bland.

I want an Ash that could be better then any other trainer ! He never won a league but orange League I guess. I don't like how they show their protogainst getting lost every time In league. They can atleast show him winning one. Its not like Ash is a kind of a character who will stop his journey only if he won a single league. He's dreaming of becoming Pokémon Master which means he will go catch and study plus will become a strong Pokémon trainer. Becoming a league champ can't just stop his journey. If they do show something like Ash winning the league and the series go off air, Their studio will be broken in a minute xD

Strom Thunder said:

I want an Ash that could be better then any other trainer ! He never won a league but orange League I guess. I don't like how they show their protogainst getting lost every time In league. They can atleast show him winning one. Its not like Ash is a kind of a character who will stop his journey only if he won a single league. He's dreaming of becoming Pokémon Master which means he will go catch and study plus will become a strong Pokémon trainer. Becoming a league champ can't just stop his journey. If they do show something like Ash winning the league and the series go off air, Their studio will be broken in a minute xD

Click to expand...

Yeah, agreed. Besides, the mere fact that Ash actually CONTINUED his journey after Orange Islands should prove that winning one league isn't going to kill the show despite what Hidaka stated. Yeah, people can argue that it was technically a filler league, but it's still something.

There's also the fact that he beat the Battle Frontier and still continued his journey, and that was DESPITE them basically being as strong as if not superior to the Elite 4 and Regional Champs.

They apparently may have planned for Ash to win the league in DP (since they gave heavy and clear foreshadowing to him fighting the Elite 4 of Sinnoh, and besides which they never gave ANY indication that Ash was actually going to go to Unova until right after he lost the league when they revealed a concept art of Ash), but wasted so much time that they couldn't do so in time.

That being said, Ash does at least improve overtime with Johto and Sinnoh being extremely good examples (sure, Johto's ranking is not as good as the Orange Cup, but at least it's far better than Kanto's. Then again, the only reason he lost Kanto was because he had the rotten luck of facing Charmander second instead of last, as Charizard was only willing to fight Charmander, and with Pikachu he decided not to even bother fighting; and the only reason he was forced to use Charizard was because Team Rocket basically kidnapped him and he was forced to waste three of his Pokémon just to get away from them AND get to the league, and the idiot officials didn't even give him time to rest). I know in Dragon Ball, Goku generally lost the World Martial Arts Tournaments solely due to sheer dumb luck (with Jackie Chun/Master Roshi, Goku ended up passing out before he could say "champion" or even "champ" and was actually pretty close to beating Roshi as both were clearly exhausted; and with Tien Shinhan, he only lost because he had the rotten luck of getting hit by a car. Even Tien mentioned his own win was only due to dumb luck).

I agree. Ash was a rookie in kanto. letting his independent Charizard to fight was a waste of time. I mean its not like he couldn't control it. He should have waited for 1 year more and should have trained hard ! By evolving his all Pokémon he could have won the league ! never mind that he was rookie but in BW It was a little disappointment.

Kid Sonic said:

Fine then. Because he's the main character he shouldn't be scolded for the things that make him the main character. That isn't entertainment.

Click to expand...

They scold the Protagonist because they love & care about him !
Just like Your parent , sibling ,Best Friend and Girlfriend will get mad if You do something reckless and nearly died to save a Dog or the World .

Famon said:

They scold the Protagonist because they love & care about him !
Just like Your parent , sibling ,Best Friend and Girlfriend will get mad if You do something reckless and nearly died to save a Dog or the World .

Click to expand...

Over Cake!? Do you have any idea of how ridiculous in context this whole thing sounds. Compared to crap that goes on in other more plot-driven anime, Ash should be able to do whatever the hell he wants. Besides, it's not like there are any real consequences in this anime anyway. In fact, half the stuff that could possibly happen in this anime make no sense. Like a random Officer Jenny or Nurse Joy could pop out of the middle of a random forest ("route") and scold Ash for whatever, as if they have total jurisdiction in secluded areas and all the time in the world to harass a 10-year boy. And then there are the reasons why Ash had so many people travel with him in the first place. While Pokemon are needed and some are more difficult to raise (like any animal to human connection), the only ones to have legitimate reasons for traveling with Ash are Serena, Max, and Bonnie. The reasons for the rest just range from pettiness to over-dependancy to just plain ridiculous. Let's review:

Misty is an persistant stalker/loan-shark who makes 10-year old newbies pay out the ass to pay for bikes. WHAT'S SO IMPORTANT ABOUT THIS DAM BIKE!? Normal in shows or films when a character borrows an extra's bike during a chase scene, that's it! That's the last we see of them or hear about the whole thing. But no, not this girl. She tracks him down with pure vigor and doesn't go away until her bike is paid for, with the money that apparently all 10-year olds have on them. After all, it's not like Ash isn't battling multiple random trainers on each route every week and earning PokeDollars after each win. In short, Misty was a situational cliche who over-stayed her welcome.

Now for the rest, and I'll just breeze through these quickly, since their not as grating (on Ash's account at least):

Brock - Wants to be a breeder, apparently needs to travel with Ash, forgets that he is not Ash's mentor and no longer a gym leader.
Tracey - Wants to meet Prof. Oak, apparently needs to travel with Ash, could've taken the next ferry over and used Ash as a reference.
May - Wants to go on her own journey, parents agree that walking is healthier than bike riding, apparently needs to travel with Ash, wants to continue her journey as a coordinator, still travels with Ash.
Dawn - Wants to follow her mother's footsteps as a coordinator, apparently needs to travel with Ash.
Cilan - Wants to travel.....with a boy who defeated him to earn a badge......and a girl who was already following him some reason.....as some kind of genre cliche trio?
Clemont - Not much of a man, apparently needs to travel with Ash.

With those out of the way, we cover the most recent mistake: Iris.

Why is this girl even traveling with Ash in the first place!? It's blatantly obvious that the writers are trying to emulate their last major mistake. She has no legitimate excuse for traveling with Ash, even when Cilan invites her to be part of his suggested trio. The best she could come up with is that he was new to Unova, as if he never left Pallet Town, much less Kanto. And more than half the time, she's snarky, annoying, hypocritical, not as much as a hotshot know-it-all as she believes she is, less-credible than Misty, and generally forced.

The driving force behind these aquantances, Ash is just too nice to say no, and other character just do whatever they want (to an extent with Max and Bonnie). Red doesn't have these kinds of problems.

Overall, why are we still even on this? It was already concluded that almost anyone could write this series better (so long as you don't cater to preschoolers). It's so bad, that one of the singers for the Diancie movie likened a film from this series to an early childhood memory of seeing an animated movie in theaters for the first time, in the same way many toddlers saw Care Bears as their first film. This is a video game franchise (especially one that was construed as cockfighting a few times). Sure it's from the same company that gives us innocent-looking plotless Mario games, but still.

But getting back to Ash and this thread, why are we getting into serious business over morality, with this anime, and anything that Ash does, when far worse has happened in other anime. Look at Bleach, look at Saiyuki, look at Naruto. Let's just save our energy and stop giving Ash flak for petty things. Unless he's constantly abusing and threatening a monkey king, or vows to destroy a village because its council ordered his brother to kill his clan, or found a Death Notebook and tried to rid the world of criminals and become a god, no need.

Ryouta said:

I want an ash that is like Red. ^^
And thats don't lose in every Pokemon Liga... :/
The Ash in the Orginal Series of Pokemon (1-5 Season) was good, i think.
But in another season is he ever the good guy, i mean i have nothing againist that personality.
But he is too good! OwO

Click to expand...

Finally somebody get it !!!
I remember , Original Ash was a Narcissist , Attention-seeker , Practical Joker , Glutton ,Sarcastic, Mischievous and hothead !!!
But Director/Writer cut those trait out in the name of maturity because they believe those Characteristic as Ash's ''Ugly Side'' .
But those were part of Ash's character ! Not something to be cut off in name of maturity.
I mean , Ichigo (Bleach) start off as a ''Loner wolf Bad Boy'' and He still act like a ''Loner wolf Bad Boy'' But that doesn't mean he haven't matured at all.

Even in BW series , The assistant Director claim to reset Ash But he was only more stupider & weaker then DP Ash . He didn't had any other trait of Original Ash.
Seriously , Does those idiots even knew Original Ash ? Or they Believe Original Ash was stupid & weak So BW Ash has to be stupid & weak as well.

Famon said:

Finally somebody get it !!!
I remember , Original Ash was a Narcissist , Attention-seeker , Practical Joker , Glutton ,Sarcastic, Mischievous and hothead !!!
But Director/Writer cut those trait out in the name of maturity because they believe those Characteristic as Ash's ''Ugly Side'' .
But those were part of Ash's character ! Not something to be cut off in name of maturity.
I mean , Ichigo (Bleach) start off as a ''Loner wolf Bad Boy'' and He still act like a ''Loner wolf Bad Boy'' But that doesn't mean he haven't matured at all.

Even in BW series , The assistant Director claim to reset Ash But he was only more stupider & weaker then DP Ash . He didn't had any other trait of Original Ash.
Seriously , Does those idiots even knew Original Ash ? Or they Believe Original Ash was stupid & weak So BW Ash has to be stupid & weak as well.



My answer : Its an Anime !
Don't like it then go watch Dragon Tales where everybody has happy happy relationship with no scolding .

Click to expand...

Wow, I guess it's just too much trouble for some people to even try.

Also, Nostalgia Critic helps people think better.

Kid Sonic, it's implied Misty was only using the Bike bit as an excuse to tag along with Ash in the Third episode. Now, I'm no Pokeshipper (don't see any reason to ship two people who haven't even fallen in love at first sight), but considering she put aside the Bike ordeal in episode 2, especially after learning why Ash needed the Bike and that Pikachu was in trouble, it's pretty clear that at the very least, she's only bothering with the Bike because she can't bring out the real reason for tagging along, whatever it is. Besides, don't you think if she really wanted to have it repaired, she, I don't know, would lug it around instead of explicitly leaving it at the Viridian Pokémon Center? Not to mention she barely even covers the Bike that much in Kanto, anyways, never mind in the Orange Islands or Johto. Yeah, I get it, you hate characters having any flaws, to the extent that you would readily abandon them the mere second they even start to show any signs of having flaws at all (you even said it yourself in another thread), but please just stop with the bashing of characters and your hypocrisy, especially when Ash proved himself to be a jerk more than a few times anyways. Were I in your situation, I'd abandon Ash in a heartbeat like all the other characters who showed any flaws, no matter how minor, only go for Mary Sues/Marty Stus.

EDIT: And BTW, siccing a Caterpie at Pidgeotto and nearly getting him killed is not a "petty reason." Do you realize what most likely would have happened? Ash's Caterpie would have become Pidgeotto's Snack and it definitely would have been all Ash's fault. That's not petty at all. And for the record, neither is his throwing a rock at Spearow and nearly getting Pikachu killed as well. And bragging about his accomplishments about getting two badges, none of which he actually beat the Gym Leader at all (heck, in the case of Brock, he actually attempted to refuse the badge specifically because he didn't win) is not a petty reason either. In other words, STOP TREATING ASH LIKE A MARTY STU FLAWLESS GOD, for goodness sakes!

What i would like to see from Ash? Thats a very good question because in essence Ash is my favorite male main character in pokemon series and while i like existing premise behind his character representing every young person hopes, dreams, adventurous spirit and innocent desires many of us as kids tend to have. Following life like on going story of one character and where his journey will take him. Journey which values more process of going through various challenges, quests, struggles and tests as way of someone getting there, rather than necessarily reaching ultimate destination.

There is without doubt room left for improval in making his character more rewarding, dimensional and meaningful to follow feeling like your viewing experience wasnt waste of time.

Some things which would improve Ash character imo are:
-extracting wider diapason of emotions from him. Treating his tendency to be reckless, impulsive and frivolous as genuine consistent flaws standing in his way of going further in his quest bof becoming pokemon master. Or when being overconfident believing too much in his skills taking his opponents easily which was showed to be case even in modt recent times(against Viola and Sanpei).

Making him reconsider to change his battle style, develop new strategies and learn how to better control his emotions during battle not losing concentration and head in most crucial moments. Become more poised, rationale and anticipating in battles. Predicting opponent next moves, turn weakness of his pokemon in strength developing whole new level of bond, understanding amd teamwork functioning like one being. Which E4 members and champions like Cynthia, Lance etc revealed to posess.

To maintain his experience and development growing forward instead of suffering from resets and stagnation.

-Seeing some of that egoistic, arrogant and botblooded nature of Ash wouldnt hurt too. Which coincidence or not was revealed most when Misty was around. Its like she knew to fulfill more fire, making interactions between chasracters filled with more energy thanks to her spunky, romantic, caring full of playful sarcasm, hotheaded attitude side. Both in OS and whenb she made returns in Hoenn its like more of Ash stubborn,cocky andty side of character got awakened through herteasing, headstrong nature and competitive spirit.

Because seeing occasional clash and conflict among Ash and his friends wouldnt hurt now in Kalos series. Because even best friends will sometime snap or disagree with you not always being everything happy. Not to mention such moments allows friendship to grow learning how to overcome your differences and flaws making bond stronger.

Not frequently, bu Ash getting in disagreement sometime with Clemont or Bonnie over something they both want to win for example or being inadvertently rude or selfish infront of Serena provoking reaction could be fun watch bringing more variety to their dynamic.

Preventing it to get stale after awhile and more fluid. For time being in XY series its not just Ash. Everyone are super friendly, peaceful and supportive with no clash, strife or disagrements ever really happening making friendship seem synthetic and forced because of this.

-Start noticing other things beside battling, eating and catching pokemon. Such as girls like it was case with Misty and now Serena revealing to have romantic affection toward him making him confised and freaked out rather than acting dimwitted. Potentially leading to profound growth in Ash himself not being ready for such things letting them know how he just wants to remain friends.

Growing up emotionally as character. In sense of paying more attention to his older friends, rival etc. Occasionally visiting them if he is in neighbourhood like Misty at Cerulean gym which is actually very close to Pallet town making them pleasantly surprised. Or calling them on phone(like May, Dawn, Brock, Iris etc) staying in touch and showing how he didnt forget about them.
How he appreciates strong bonds, friendship they share and gratitude for being on his side providing shoulder to cry and rely on when he needed it the most.

-another thing i would like is have writers dive deeper in Ash thoughts, insecuritiers and memories making him reconsider what he expects from future once he finally achieves his dreams.

Showing why becoming very best trainer in world is so much important to him, from where this desire and passion orignates from. Is it legacy from his father, pokemon themselves etc adding justification behind his long journey. Has he ever contemplated about it and if his restless, spirited nature would ever let him settle down?

Kid Sonic said:

Misty is an persistant stalker/loan-shark who makes 10-year old newbies pay out the ass to pay for bikes. WHAT'S SO IMPORTANT ABOUT THIS DAM BIKE!? Normal in shows or films when a character borrows an extra's bike during a chase scene, that's it! That's the last we see of them or hear about the whole thing. But no, not this girl. She tracks him down with pure vigor and doesn't go away until her bike is paid for, with the money that apparently all 10-year olds have on them. After all, it's not like Ash isn't battling multiple random trainers on each route every week and earning PokeDollars after each win. In short, Misty was a situational cliche who over-stayed her welcome.

Click to expand...

Im sorry to say this but you must have gained completely false impression on Misty character if you think how she was some "spoiled nagging witch who just cared about her bike and how to make Ash life miserable".

Bike was initial vector behind Misty meeting Ash and deciding to join him, but in reality it was his affection toward pokemon. Selfless care and dedicated attituide in taking care of them which attracted her to him. Wanting most of all friend and someone with who she could talk, confine and share her problems, dreams and desires.

In late Kanto Misty completely stopped caring about bike just wanting to be in Ash and Brock company, explore world, learn as much as she can about water pokemon and become water pokemon master. For first time in life Misty had friends, people who didnt discriminated or judge her on her appearance, talents and skills like sisters and everyone else did, someone with who she could had fun and encounter understandng.

Sure Misty did scold Ash or got in arguments, but mot of time it was because she wanted best for him, not letting to selfpity himself or because he deserved it when acting spoiled, rude and egoistic. She wanted him to take training seriously, put himself together when losing battle or not mindlessly rushing in danger looking after him like true friend would.

If you dont remember in "Gotta Catch Ya Later" when Misty was forced to leave Ash she started to sob being on verge of crying not caring about ill cite "stupid bike" and being hurt by how inconsiderate Ash was by thinking she would be happy of getting her bike fixed.With Brock having to make him clear how Misty doesnt want bike or return back to Cerulean, but stay in his and Ash company discovering new worlds, pokemon and work on her dreams and goals in company of her best friends.

In end whether she overstayed her welcome or not is matter of opinion. But Many people considered Misty fresh, fun and charming character who brought lot of emotion, flare, courage and life in group dynamics. Along with feeling she had lot of untapped potential and unfinished things in story regarding her dreams, insecurities and aspiratioins to continue as main character.

Ash is not character without flaws and negative sides. He will make mistakes and if no one never criticized him, taiught him how things in life works etc he wouldnt be even alive nowadays or become half a trainer/person like it is case now.

Friends who sometime argue with you, being sarcastic or even rude dont do it because of being conceited and malefic, but because of wanting to help you see error of your ways, guide you to right direction and how to be better at something.

Staying quiet and making no actions in trying to stop someone from dong terrible mistake, making fool out of himself or failing hard at something you know is someone passion and life on other hand is reflection of bad friend who does not care.

So i dont see what is so bad about May , Misty, Dawn etc sometime getting into clash with Ash,?

Or God forbid Serena slapping Ash wrist not because shes mean but because of wanting to teach Ash polite manners leaving some cake for others as well.

Not to mention its perfectly normal for friends to sometime tease each other, be sarcastic, out of endeavor making each other mad getting into fight because of flaws and their differences. Making friendship and bond only feel natural, diverse and realistic setting groundwork for stronger bond over time.

You know , Ash was surprisingly Smarter & more competent in the Last BW Movie !!! But I was so mad about BW Director/Writer's Mistreatment toward Ash that I didn't even wanted to give the Movie a Chance !!!

Some People were even more pissed then I was since BW Writer/Director replace Original Mewtwo with new Mewtwo.
It seem they prefer the old Genocidal Mewtwo over the new Friendly Neighborhood Mewtwo.

I wish Director/Writer to stop their Mistreatment toward Ash ! I mean they even trying to avoid Ash from Megevolving Pokemon because its too Cool for him ! Even though it won't do any good at TV ranking or Merchandise sales.

Famon said:

You know , Ash was surprisingly Smarter & more competent in the Last BW Movie !!! But I was so mad about BW Director/Writer's Mistreatment toward Ash that I didn't even wanted to give the Movie a Chance !!!

Some People were even more pissed then I was since BW Writer/Director replace Original Mewtwo with new Mewtwo.
It seem they prefer the old Genocidal Mewtwo over the new Friendly Neighborhood Mewtwo.

I wish Director/Writer to stop their Mistreatment toward Ash ! I mean they even trying to avoid Ash from Megevolving Pokemon because its too Cool for him ! Even though it won't do any good at TV ranking or Merchandise sales.

Click to expand...

Yeah, agreed. They have made him a bit better with XY (for one thing, he actually tamed a Legendary, and now while does still lose, at least they actually do make some sense unlike in BW, and they are definitely a lot less than then. At least, that's what TVTropes stated with Rescued from the Scrappy Heap's entry on Ash.), but not enough to make up for the really bad treatment. And honestly, at least with Squirtle, Bulbasaur, and Pikachu, they had an excuse for not evolving them at all (after all, they flat out didn't want to evolve), and while Cyndaquil and Totodile never really evolved during the main saga, that was more due to being lost thanks to executive meddling forcing them to abandon the GS Ball arc with a lot of loose ends for the Celebi movie rather than because the Pokémon themselves had any qualms for evolving. If they don't want the Pokémon to evolve, actually HAVE the Pokémon express a desire not to evolve, don't simply have them not evolve at all without any indication that they don't wish to evolve. And besides, the kids aren't going to be too happy with cutesy Pokémon all the time, and considering the huge amount of hate the audiences had for May's Squirtle and Eevee, Dawn's Piplup, and the like largely because of their being OP (and not in a good way, unfortunately), it would be pragmatic to have the Pokémon evolve unless they are given a specific reason why they are capable of doing the feats they are doing to not require them to evolve. Other than that, the only things I'm concerned with are Ash actually WINNING a league for once, or at least doing far better than Top 4 (heck, for Kalos, thanks to the disastrous turnout of Unova, I'm even willing to take his getting Top 4 as long as he at LEAST redeems himself for Unova).

And honestly, regarding Mewtwo, the replacement of Mewtwo probably would have had a bit better reception than it did if the writers were honest from the get-go that it was definitely a different Mewtwo, instead of stating or at least strongly implying that this was supposed to be the same Mewtwo as the one from the first movie and Mewtwo Returns. That's probably the main cause for the anger that it's not the same Mewtwo. It's sort of like how American and European audiences received Raiden badly (which was due to a marketing campaign that not only hid Raiden, but also made it seem as though Solid Snake would actually be the main playable character as usual, NOT replaced midway through).

EDIT:

Im sorry to say this but you must have gained completely false impression on Misty character if you think how she was some "spoiled nagging witch who just cared about her bike and how to make Ash life miserable".

Bike was initial vector behind Misty meeting Ash and deciding to join him, but in reality it was his affection toward pokemon. Selfless care and dedicated attituide in taking care of them which attracted her to him. Wanting most of all friend and someone with who she could talk, confine and share her problems, dreams and desires.

In late Kanto Misty completely stopped caring about bike just wanting to be in Ash and Brock company, explore world, learn as much as she can about water pokemon and become water pokemon master. For first time in life Misty had friends, people who didnt discriminated or judge her on her appearance, talents and skills like sisters and everyone else did, someone with who she could had fun and encounter understandng.

Sure Misty did scold Ash or got in arguments, but mot of time it was because she wanted best for him, not letting to selfpity himself or because he deserved it when acting spoiled, rude and egoistic. She wanted him to take training seriously, put himself together when losing battle or not mindlessly rushing in danger looking after him like true friend would.

If you dont remember in "Gotta Catch Ya Later" when Misty was forced to leave Ash she started to sob being on verge of crying not caring about ill cite "stupid bike" and being hurt by how inconsiderate Ash was by thinking she would be happy of getting her bike fixed.With Brock having to make him clear how Misty doesnt want bike or return back to Cerulean, but stay in his and Ash company discovering new worlds, pokemon and work on her dreams and goals in company of her best friends.

In end whether she overstayed her welcome or not is matter of opinion. But Many people considered Misty fresh, fun and charming character who brought lot of emotion, flare, courage and life in group dynamics. Along with feeling she had lot of untapped potential and unfinished things in story regarding her dreams, insecurities and aspiratioins to continue as main character.

Click to expand...

Yes, fully agreed, DBZ Fan. This definitely explains Misty's character very well. Misty definitely valued Ash as a friend, not merely a means or as prey for loan-sharking (heck, in the Tower of Terror episode, when it seemed like Ash died, she became horrified and saddened, being concerned about Ash. Not the chances of her bike being paid off, but Ash himself. Pokeshipping or not, that should tell a lot of people how much she cares for Ash, at least as a friend.) Besides, even Kid Sonic has to admit, she treated Ash far more like an actual, genuine friend than Naru Narusegawa did, whose character can best be summed up as a virtual domestic abuser to Keitaru Urashima, and albeit to a lesser extent the other girls in Love Hina save possibly for Kanako Urashima as well. Oh, and unlike Ash, where most of the stuff Ash got yelled at for by Misty and the other characters were actually for things he did in fact deserve, most if not all the instances that Keitaru gets punished by being beat up or anything like that are for things that weren't even his fault in the first place (in fact, the series was so infamous for it's borderline domestic abuse on Keitaru by the female dorm members that TVTropes even mentioned that most readers and viewers get scared away from the series for that, even if played for comedy, and it also resulted in Naru actually getting a HUGE hatedom outside Japan, and boy do I mean "huge". She's considered part of the trope Americans Hate Tingle for a reason, especially her Anime characterization.). Most times he came across as a "pervert," it was due to exceptionally dumb luck on his part, like his tripping resulting in their clothes coming off, coming out to bathe himself just as it turns out the girls are bathing, and all of that, sometimes, even if its one of them who walks in on him for a change, he gets beaten up anyways, and there have even been incidents where the girls force him to see flesh specifically so they could have an excuse to beat him up. Probably the only time he MIGHT have been at fault is when he apparently forgot about Naru being the girl he promised to marry when going to Tokyo University. This, alongside the girls more bimbo-like personalities (pardon my being blunt, but it has to be said) and their designs, is the main reason why I hated the Love Hina franchise, and the latter two aspects especially are also what resulted in my distaste for Misty's replacements (that and Princess vs. Princess' Fiorello Fangirls).

weedle_mchairybug said:

Snip

Click to expand...

Ultimately , Everyone Want a Protagonist who Funny & Badass at the same time !!!
Even if he is a Overpowered Protagonist or a Mary Sue.
That why people love characters such as Goku (DBZ) , Lufty (One Piece) , Tsuna (Hitman Reborn) , Izayoi (Moudaiji-tachi) , Sora (No game No life) , Arata (Trinity Saven)
If only Ash could be Funny & Badass at the same time.

Famon said:

I want a really Strong , Incredibly Smart ,Competent and Clever ''Immature'' Ash !!!
Such as Gold (Pokespe) ,Harata (Pokemon DPA) , Arata (Trinity 7) , Natsu (Fairy tail) , Yamada (Yamada & 7 witchs) , Luffy (One Picec) , L (Death Note) !!!
Face it , Ash is a 10 year kid Ever-boyhood or not.
KIDS ARE SUPPOSE TO BE IMMATURE !!!
Even Teenager takes a lot of time reach maturity .

Click to expand...

Yeah, i want ash to be strong this time and win the pokemon league. And although i literally facepalmed at ash when he was being inmature and very stupid, it still had more personality than the new current regions. I mean, the group in the OS had more personality than the new ones. If you watch X/Y, they hang out fine, no fight or disagreement whatsoever. Believe me, 10 years old are not like that. Even grown ups aren't like that. To be honest, i miss how the group at times, fought each other and had very funny moments, which now doesn't even frequently happen. They're basically dolless characters now.

The only thing Ash is truly guity of is showing no remorse towards Team Rocket.

And no, Ash isn't Jesus Christ (and that isn't even a fair comparison), Red is.

Kid Sonic said:

The only thing Ash is truly guity of is showing no remorse towards Team Rocket.

And no, Ash isn't Jesus Christ (and that isn't even a fair comparison), Red is.

Click to expand...

Actually, in Pokémon Shipwreck, he and his friends did express remorse for Team Rocket's presumed death (made more clear in the Japanese version).

Also, there are plenty of bad stuff he did beyond "not showing remorse towards Team Rocket." There's also his nearly getting Caterpie killed with such idiocy that even a rookie wouldn't make such a mistake; there's having him lose to Brock out of arrogance, there's the bit about him scaring his friends (right after Brock got electrocuted) in Tower of Terror; there's his overall arrogance in the beginning episodes (like bragging about getting the badges even though he never actually won a battle until Lt. Surge); there's plenty he was guilty for. Ironically, probably the only time he did admit he messed up during the early episodes, Episode 4, was for something that wasn't actually his fault for in the first place (the entire mess in that episode was actually Samurai's fault), and even then, the only one who held him responsible besides Metapod was Samurai (Misty didn't hold him responsible at all, I really should point out).

And I don't think anyone's ever said that Ash is Jesus Christ or anything like that, but I do get irritated when people like you act like Ash was nigh-perfect when he really isn't and ignores quite a few flaws on his part, and hypocritically bash anyone who does even the most minor of infractions.

As far as the topic at hand, the only thing I care about at this point regarding Ash is that he actually win a league, and actually catch up with some Pokémon he's released (like his butterfree and Pidgeot, maybe Primeape if needs be, since the Japanese version did have the narrator imply they'll meet again). So far, the only Pokémon he's actually caught up with besides his Kanto starters (even though they weren't actually released) is his Lapras.

weedle_mchairybug said:

Actually, in Pokémon Shipwreck, he and his friends did express remorse for Team Rocket's presumed death (made more clear in the Japanese version).

Also, there are plenty of bad stuff he did beyond "not showing remorse towards Team Rocket." There's also his nearly getting Caterpie killed with such idiocy that even a rookie wouldn't make such a mistake; there's having him lose to Brock out of arrogance, there's the bit about him scaring his friends (right after Brock got electrocuted) in Tower of Terror; there's his overall arrogance in the beginning episodes (like bragging about getting the badges even though he never actually won a battle until Lt. Surge); there's plenty he was guilty for. Ironically, probably the only time he did admit he messed up during the early episodes, Episode 4, was for something that wasn't actually his fault for in the first place (the entire mess in that episode was actually Samurai's fault), and even then, the only one who held him responsible besides Metapod was Samurai (Misty didn't hold him responsible at all, I really should point out).

And I don't think anyone's ever said that Ash is Jesus Christ or anything like that, but I do get irritated when people like you act like Ash was nigh-perfect when he really isn't and ignores quite a few flaws on his part, and hypocritically bash anyone who does even the most minor of infractions.

As far as the topic at hand, the only thing I care about at this point regarding Ash is that he actually win a league, and actually catch up with some Pokémon he's released (like his butterfree and Pidgeot, maybe Primeape if needs be, since the Japanese version did have the narrator imply they'll meet again). So far, the only Pokémon he's actually caught up with besides his Kanto starters (even though they weren't actually released) is his Lapras.

Click to expand...

So what does any of that have to do with current Ash in XY: The Series?

Kid Sonic said:

So what does any of that have to do with current Ash in XY: The Series?

Click to expand...

I thought you were meaning Ash in general when you said that, so I apologize. Though with that being said, I will make clear that I haven't even watched even a minute of XY so I can't say one way or another about Ash in that series as much as I want to.

weedle_mchairybug said:

I thought you were meaning Ash in general when you said that, so I apologize. Though with that being said, I will make clear that I haven't even watched even a minute of XY so I can't say one way or another about Ash in that series as much as I want to.

Click to expand...

Either way, anything said about Ash is past-tense and no konger applies. Therefore we no longer need another Misty arch-type, especially not in Serena. We also don't need Ash to lose anymore conferences. None of those things from the past call for any retribution.

Kid Sonic said:

Either way, anything said about Ash is past-tense and no konger applies. Therefore we no longer need another Misty arch-type, especially not in Serena. We also don't need Ash to lose anymore conferences. None of those things from the past call for any retribution.

Click to expand...

Yeah, and none of the stuff Misty and others did in the past deserve you bashing her to heck and calling her and the others the worst things alive, yet here you are doing it.

Either way, the only thing I even care about regarding what Ash should be right now is whether he actually WINS a Pokémon League now, a Game-region Pokémon League anyways, and becoming a Pokémon Master, thanks to the Anime for some reason not counting the Anime-only Orange Islands as an actual win, certainly enough of one for the show to end. That, as well as actually reuniting with those Pokémon he specifically promised to catch up with (like Butterfree and Pidgeot. I'm not counting Primeape because he never actually promised to reunite with Primeape in the Japanese version, though even there the narrator does imply they'll meet again so maybe him as well). Probably the closest he's come to actually reuniting with any of them is Butterfree, and that's only due to the opening in Battle Frontier which shouldn't even be considered canon.