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  #1    
Old September 13th, 2010 (02:20 AM). Edited September 13th, 2010 by shadowwalke.
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shadowwalke
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Join Date: Feb 2010
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I've just made a new team, and since 4th Generation is coming to an end, I decided to post my team.

~Team Building Process~


So I decided to make a team. First I went to both Pokemon Online and Shoddy Battle Pokemon Usage List and found that Heatran is top on both lists(Shoddy - 26.57%/PO - 24.98%). Following up in both lists is Scizor(mostly banded Scizor)(Shoddy - 22.08%/PO - 21.32%, what the hell?). But anyways, the main purpose of looking at both lists is to find out which Pokemon is suitable for me to center around, which in this case I wanted my team to be offensive, yet bulky.

Bulky Pokemon, huh? The first four Pokemon that came to my mind is Heatran, Gyarados, Shaymin and Zapdos. So I looked at the tier lists of Shoddy and PO(PO has a new tier list). I decide to add Machamp into my list as its quite bulky. After some time I added Scizor in(100Def). OK, now I have 6 Pokemon. Which Pokemon should I use? Hmmmm.... So I list out the weaknesses and resistance of all 6 Pokemon.
Spoiler:
Heatran: Ground X4|Water/Fighting X2|Fire/Poison X0|Normal/Flying/Psychic/Ghost/Dragon/Dark X1/2, Grass/Ice/Bug/Steel X1/4
Machamp: Flying/Psychic X2|Rock/Bug/Dark X1/2
Shaymin: Bug/Flying/Fire/Ice/Poison X2|Water/Electric/Grass/Ground X1/2
Zapdos: Ice/Rock X2|Fight/Grass/Flying/Bug/Steel X1/2|Ground X0
Scizor: Fire X4|Normal/Ice/Bug/Psychic/Steel/Dark/Dragon/Ghost X1/2|Grass X1/4|Poison X0
Gyarados: Electric X4|Rock X2|Fire/Water/Bug/Fight/Steel X1/2|Ground X0


Looking at their weaknesses, I found that Heatran pairs well with Shaymin and Scizor(Shaymin draws Poison/Bug/Flying/Fire/Ice damage, so I just switch to Heatran, best when I receive Flash Fire boost, and Shaymin takes care of Water and Ground attacks|Scizor draws Fire attacks, so Heatran gets Flash Fire boost, but Scizor takes care of nothing from Heatran). I decide to choose Shaymin to pair with Heatran.


With Shaymin alone, ground weakness is still a problem, not to mention ice attacks if Heatran went down. So I decided to choose a Pokemon that can take down both ground and ice Pokemon. I chose Suicune.


Now I decided to go out of the type chart and think of a sweeper. All my Pokemon now are Special Sweepers, so I need a physical sweeper. My possibilities are: Breloom, Electivire, Dragonite, Gyarados, Lucario, Metagross and Scizor.
Spoiler:
Breloom: Too many weaknesses and pretty frail.
Electivire: Adds to ground weakness, but may be used.
Dragonite: Adds to Ice weakness, but may be used.
Gyarados: Electric weakness. Not good.
Lucario: Adds to ground + [bold]fighting[/bold] weakness.
Metagross: Adds to fire and ground weakness.
Scizor: Adds to fire weakness.

After I had reviewed them, I chose Electivire and Dragonite.
Back to type chart now. Electivire only adds to ground weakness, which Suicune and Shaymin can take care of. Dragonite however, adds Ice weakness and Rock weakness. Although Suicune and Shaymin take care of those 2 weaknesses, I chose Electivire because of its Motor Drive.


I decided I need a wall, since it's a bulky offensive team. Immediately Dusknoir came to my mind with a 135 base Defense and Special Defense, as well as 100 base Attack.


Adding Dusknoir, I realized something: I'm left with no lead! Now I review my team: None weak to SR, all affected by Spikes and 4 out of 5 affected by Toxic Spikes, so I obviously need a spinner. Forretress and Starmie came to my mind, but I decided to find some more spinners. I found Tentacruel and Donphan. I decided to drop Starmie due to its low HP. So I'm left with Donphan, Tentacruel and Forretress. I drop Forretress as it's too weak(I didn't mean stats weak). It was now a tough choice between Tentacruel and Donphan. Tentacruel can lay Toxic Spikes but not SR, while Donphan can set up SR but not Toxic Spikes. I decided to go with Donphan anyways, due to its high attack and defense. However I still have Tentacruel in mind.


So Donphan doesn't work very well, especially against lead Roserade. So I'm thinking that I need someone that could outspeed Roserade. No use using a powerful move since Roserade mostly carries Focus Sash. I thought for a long time and I chose Tentacruel, which have a base speed of 100, while Roserade have a base speed of 90.


~In-depth Look~


Tentacruel (M) @ Black Sludge
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 136 HP / 120 Def / 176 Spd / 76 SDef
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Toxic Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Surf
- Sludge Bomb
A basic Tentacruel lead, just that I tweaked it's EVs. With a Timid Nature + 176spd EVs, Tentacruel reaches 308 speed, just enough to outspeed Roserade. I did not tweak the Def EVs as Tentacruel need all the defense it can get, and I'm afraid I might mess up Tentacruel's Special Def and HP if I tweak it's Defense EVs. The remaining EVs are invested into HP and Defense EVs.



Electivire (M) @ Expert Belt
Trait: Motor Drive
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- ThunderPunch
- Brick Break
- Ice Punch
With a Motor Drive boost, Electivire reaches up to 433(I think!) speed, and can act as a deadly revenge killer. Earthquake, Ice Punch, Brick Break and ThunderPunch provides excellent coverage. If a smart opponent wants to WoW me, they have to be prepared to meet a Heatran.



Heatran (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Explosion
The Revenge Killer. It's all simple. I chose HP Electric over Dragon Pulse and HP Grass to kill Gyarados that think I carry the latter 2.



Shaymin @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Seed Flare
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Leech Seed
This thing is so cute. Comes in on resisted attacks, Leech Seed on the switch. Blissey ain't going to wall Shaymin as it have to be prepared to face Leech Seed. If it softboils, I simply have to use Seed Flare and get the Special Defense drop and continue attacking before using Earth Power to save Seed Flare's PP. HP Fire is to take care of the opposing Shaymin or other grass types.



Suicune @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Surf
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Ice Beam
CroCune? Nope. Offensive? Yes. With a Calm Mind under its belt, Suicune is prepared to sweep. 252 Speed + Timid Nature allows it to reach 295 Speed, just enough to outspeed Heatran w/o Scarf. Ice Beam + HP Electric provides coverage and Surf for STAB.



Dusknoir (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 28 Atk / 228 Def
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split
- Earthquake
- ThunderPunch
Dusknoir, the Ultimate Wall of my team. With 135 Base Special Defense and Defense, Dusknoir can reach 399 Defense and 306 Special Defense. Dusknoir also acts as a Spin Blocker to block spinners from spinning away my Toxic Spikes. Pokemon who are immune to Toxic Spikes such as Scizor are going to half their attack halved by WoW. Since Dusknoir has low health, Pain Split is excellent for getting back the HP he lost.


~Final Look~

That wraps up my team and I hope you guys will rate them
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  #2    
Old September 13th, 2010 (08:20 AM).
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giorgos
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Greece
Age: 19
Gender: Male
Nature: Adamant
So far i have seen the team is Good.I have one comment.I think it's better to use Mixed Electivire than Physically because most Tanks are defensive
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  #3    
Old September 13th, 2010 (08:39 AM).
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jkriall
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I really like this team. Especially the heatran shaymin evire suicune combo. Looks like it would work really well only thing I can say is you could replace cune for vaporeon to give some wish support and added bulkiness, give it hp evs before spD or def because it works better. Also sorry but have 2 say it... u spelt wrap wrong lol kinda sticks out.
  #4    
Old September 13th, 2010 (11:22 PM).
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shadowwalke
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Thanks for the rating guys! Also jkriall thanks for letting me know :p I keep thinking wrap up is rap up -.- I'll surely change it.

Anyway giorgos the reason I didn't use mixed Electivire is because it has 3 out of 4 moves which are Special moves, and I have 4 Special attackers, with 3 of them being sweeper, so I need to use a Physical sweeper(Dusknoir only walls opponent, 28Atk isn't helping too much)

By the way, I need suggestions. I have problems with Snorlax as it can set up on me. I need a phazer so when it's sleeping I can remove its stat changes. Which Pokemon should I change and use?
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  #5    
Old September 14th, 2010 (07:00 AM).
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Dark Azelf
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Just use Machamp > Vire. The bulk up chesto rest sp.def set is pretty boss. Snorlax is set up fodder for it. This will also cover your ridiculous T-tar weakess.

Tentacruel is dead weight and a horrid lead. What is the point in outspeeding Roserade ? Uh what can you even do to it, when it can just sleep you rofl ? That and Rose absorbs T-Spikes upon entry. Did i mention how it loses to like every good lead ? Lastly did i mention Tenta sucks outside heavy stall and really isn't a good spinner lol and Toxic Spikes are pretty useless on this team. Just get a good lead like Azelf or w/e, since i mean nothing can set up SR.

Dragon Pulse/HP ice >> Hp Electric on Heatran. You have multiple Gyara checks, however Scarf Flygon has the potential to massacre your whole team.

HP Fire > Leech on Shaymin. Idk about you, but i dont like being Scizor, Forry, Skarm set up bait. Oh and Blissey doesn't beat any Shaymin with Rest anyway.

Rotom-A is superior to Dusknoir in every way shape and forme (lol pun) and isn't offensively retarded which would fit in better on a team like this and it also checks Flygon being immune to EQ.

Lastly, so people stop doing this; DO NOT USE A GHOST WITHOUT SUB (OR REFLECT > WISP, THEN YOU DONT HAVE TO USE SUB) ON T-SPIKES TEAMS IF YOU ARE USING W-O-W. I HOPE YOU LIKE BEING POISONED TYRANITAR @ PURSUIT WEAK. @_@
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  #6    
Old September 14th, 2010 (07:22 AM).
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shadowwalke
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Quote originally posted by Dark Azelf:
Just use Machamp > Vire. The bulk up chesto rest sp.def set is pretty boss. Snorlax is set up fodder for it. This will also cover your ridiculous T-tar weakess.

Tentacruel is dead weight and a horrid lead. What is the point in outspeeding Roserade ? Uh what can you even do to it, when it can just sleep you rofl ? That and Rose absorbs T-Spikes upon entry. Did i mention how it loses to like every good lead ? Lastly did i mention Tenta sucks outside heavy stall and really isn't a good spinner lol and Toxic Spikes are pretty useless on this team. Just get a good lead like Azelf or w/e, since i mean nothing can set up SR.

Dragon Pulse/HP ice >> Hp Electric on Heatran. You have multiple Gyara checks, however Scarf Flygon has the potential to massacre your whole team.

HP Fire > Leech on Shaymin. Idk about you, but i dont like being Scizor, Forry, Skarm set up bait. Oh and Blissey doesn't beat any Shaymin with Rest anyway.

Rotom-A is superior to Dusknoir in every way shape and forme (lol pun) and isn't offensively retarded which would fit in better on a team like this and it also checks Flygon being immune to EQ.

Lastly, so people stop doing this; DO NOT USE A GHOST WITHOUT SUB (OR REFLECT > WISP, THEN YOU DONT HAVE TO USE SUB) ON T-SPIKES TEAMS IF YOU ARE USING W-O-W. I HOPE YOU LIKE BEING POISONED TYRANITAR @ PURSUIT WEAK. @_@
I need a physical attacker, that's why I used Dusknoir -.-
I gave Shaymin HP Fire didn't I?
I agree with the Tentacruel part.
If I use Machamp I lose my most important Gyara check.

EDIT: WoW is for Pokemon that is immune to Toxic Spikes.
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  #7    
Old September 14th, 2010 (08:13 AM).
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Corruptodile
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Quote originally posted by shadowwalke:
I need a physical attacker, that's why I used Dusknoir -.-
I gave Shaymin HP Fire didn't I?
I agree with the Tentacruel part.
If I use Machamp I lose my most important Gyara check.

EDIT: WoW is for Pokemon that is immune to Toxic Spikes.
There are tons of physical attackers, Dark Azelf gave a pretty good one, Machamp. You've also got Gyarados which is pretty bulky, Scizor and Tyranitar, Metagross, Dragonite...the least goes on and on for bulky physical attackers.

I don't see how Electivire covers Gyarados. The only hit it would be able to take is a off the bat Waterfall, and even then it loses 67%-78%. Normally though, most Gyarados use Dragon Dance, in which case it's now faster and you have to hope for absolute minimum damage if it used Waterfall. Earthquake is overkill. Suicune more than covers Gyarados, especially since you've got HP Electric.

Toxic is for things immune to Toxic Spikes.
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  #8    
Old September 14th, 2010 (09:57 AM).
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Dark Azelf
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Quote originally posted by shadowwalke:
I need a physical attacker, that's why I used Dusknoir -.-
I gave Shaymin HP Fire didn't I?
I agree with the Tentacruel part.
If I use Machamp I lose my most important Gyara check.

EDIT: WoW is for Pokemon that is immune to Toxic Spikes.


1. Dusknoir is NOT physical attacker. :/
2. Oh i didnt see that, put Rest over Leech Seed for the 100% heal with Natural Cure when you switch. You are trying to mix sweeping with stalling which isn't gonna work on a single set.
3. Please for the love of god you did NOT just call vire a Gyarados check. X_X Not to mention you have HP Electric Suicune, aka prolly THE best Gyara check in the game. Machamp solves your Snorlax weakness. :/

Quote:
WoW is for Pokemon that is immune to Toxic Spikes.
Player switched in Tyranitar.
Tyranitar was poisoned by the Toxic Spikes
Dusknoir used Will-O-Wisp!
But it failed!
Tyranitar used Pursuit/Crunch!
Noir used "wow im Pursuit bait please replace me"



This is why Rotom would be better because it can use Sub/Reflect to avoid Tar, whilst still having the option of using W-O-W. Not to mention isnt total set up fodder like noir is and has the option of going offensive and not be dead weight.
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  #9    
Old September 16th, 2010 (04:40 AM).
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shadowwalke
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Ok, so I did some changes and these are the following(some suggestions are taken from other forums):
Replaced Tentacruel with Forretress:
Forretress (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 SDef
Careful nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Spikes
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin
- Payback

Replaced Electivire with Machamp:
Machamp (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/4 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dynamicpunch
- Sleep Talk
- Rest
- Payback

Replaced Dusknoir with Rotom-W:
Rotom-w @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/168 Def/88 Spd
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Discharge
- Will-o-wisp
- Substitute
- Shadow Ball

My questions:
1. I don't know why, but why is Sleep Talk Machamp preferred than the other sets?
2.
Quote originally posted by Dark Azelf:
The bulk up chesto rest sp.def set is pretty boss.
I don't understand :/
3. I don't know what Rotom form to use, and looking at my edited team, I decided to use Rotom-W.
4. Should I use Choice Scarf on Heatran?
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