Minority Rights vs Human Rights or something

Thread derailed successfully. Mission failed. Returning to base!

Magic said:

Alas, there definitely are homophobic people even in the gay community. There's also (at least, in my community) a slight divide between gays and lesbians - let alone the fact that transgender, which is totally separate IMO, is not 100% accepted amongst us despite being a key part of LGBT.

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That's an entirely different can of worms though, and isn't what I was saying. Like you're not wrong because the gay community has a lot of problems but the fact is if I wouldn't fear negative reaction for coming out to a gay man/lesbian woman rather than a straight person.

Limerent said:

Legally you are treated equally. Apart from gay marriage, which I oppose on the grounds that relationships shouldn't require state recognition and should be no different than two people of any creed signing a contract to own a property.

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Nobody cares about your opinion on marriage. The fact is people are still unequal about it. Like even if you hate marriage you can't deny the legal benefits which come from it?

Making legislation to specifically protect minorities is not equal, it's discriminatory.

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I didn't realize legisliation making sure that people can't get fired on the mere SUSPICION that they're gay was discrimination. The entire point is to... eliminate discrimination?

At the moment I'm not supportive of minorities because they're drowning in minority rights activists which I see as one sided and discriminatory. If they'd throw away their labels and consent to being recognised as nothing more than people it'd be a step forward.

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At the very least you know many people who consider themselves minorities don't respect your views.

Limerent said:

Making legislation to specifically protect minorities is not equal, it's discriminatory.

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I cannot BELIEVE Abraham Lincoln freed the slaves....could he be any more racist?

At the moment I'm not supportive of minorities because they're drowning in minority rights activists which I see as one sided and discriminatory. If they'd throw away their labels and consent to being recognised as nothing more than people it'd be a step forward.

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Recognizing diversity is not discrimination. Diversity should be celebrated. Just because you're a white male that has never had to think twice about how some aspect of yourself may cause societal harm to you, doesn't mean everyone can easily ignore such a thing. Colorblindness is just as bas as racism. Labels are only bad when they're used to discriminate, but you need to realize that something is not discriminatory because it doesn't benefit white males.

daigonite said:

First off, cut the ♥♥♥♥ing privilege crap the hell out. You do not automatically have "privilege" just because you are a white male.

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Yes, you do.

daigonite said:

There's a lot of things that modify "privilege". Also, privilege is non quantifiable, non comparable, non measurable and non predictable. It's not a ♥♥♥♥ing stat in a video game, stop treating it like one.

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We're not trying to do this? I think we've been pretty clear that privilege based on one's gender/race/sexuality/whatever is only one factor out of many that determines a person's experiences in life.

daigonite said:

You idiots telling him to go and "check his privilege" or whatever are just as bad as him saying that he is annoyed by homosexuals.

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No one ever told anyone to "check their privilege." Where did you see that? And don't call me an idiot, thanks. You don't know me.

And I'm pretty sure that me pointing out a basic reality of how the world works to someone isn't "bad" at all, and certainly isn't on the level of homophobia.

daigonite said:

THIRD, and most jarringly, I have never seen a group of idiots (outside of tumblr) show so little disrespect for people's opinion. YES, I DISAGREE WITH LIMMERENT. But how do I express this level of disagreement?[/i]

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I've been trying to be as polite and respectful as possible without compromising my opinions. I haven't been insulting anyone, I haven't been flaming anyone, I haven't cursed anybody out. I really don't think you have any right to be disgusted by how I've been acting.

Like you said, you can express that you don't like the way this conversation is going (and I don't either - I wish it was more discussion and less flaming) without needing to curse at us and insult people.

Again, I'm not trying to be rude here. But I am going to stand up for myself just a little. I don't think any of our arguments against Limerent or Alex or Undertaker have been in any way out of line.

Limerent said:

At the moment I'm not supportive of minorities because they're drowning in minority rights activists which I see as one sided and discriminatory. If they'd throw away their labels and consent to being recognised as nothing more than people it'd be a step forward.

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People refusing to talk about how they're being discriminated against because they don't want to "make it about race/gender/sexuality" only support the people doing the discriminating, allowing them to continue without consequence.

What it comes down to is you, as a person who doesn't experience any of this kind of discrimination, have decided that it doesn't exist or it's not "serious" enough to talk about. When people speak about privilege, this is what they mean - you are not in any position to talk about what discrimination exists because you do not experience it, but you have decided that you are in that position and have formed a position that actively fights against those who are discriminated against. You've never had to worry that if you ask a guy from the party you went to to walk you home, he might rape you, but if you don't ask him you might get raped and then told that you shouldn't have been alone. You've never had to worry that if you need help on the street and knock on a door, you'll get shot. You've never had to worry that socialization is influencing how you interact with people and thus harming your chances at moving forward in life. Therefore, you've decided these things don't exist. And when people who experience them tell you they exist, you ignore them and repeat that they don't exist and everyone should just be quiet about the discrimination they face because they're "causing" it by pointing it out and trying to fix it. It's a poster child example of being so privileged that you're unable to understand the experiences of anyone else.

Fortunately for you, the best part of privilege is you can walk away and not have to worry about it. Everyone else gets to walk away and deal with this discrimination every day for the rest of their lives, but lucky you gets to bow out after telling everyone it's not a real thing and move on as if nothing happened.

I don't think there's anything wrong with a particular group fighting for their own rights, but I can understand where the objections to this line of reasons are coming from. I think there is a danger of seeing your own group's rights as having priority over the rights of the people outside your group. Not saying that this applies to everyone, but there's definitely people like that out there.

I think our ultimate goal should be human rights, and LGBT rights, women's rights, minority rights, etc. are simply the steps we need to take to reach that goal.

Why can't we all be egalitarians? I'm sick of seeing "whatever's rights" because the reality is that it's missing the point. There are discrepancies. Men have problems, women have problems, everyone else has problems, these problems have a root cause rooted in our own culture and ignorance. If we take a step back and instead of saying "BUT WOMYN!!!1 PRIVILEGE derpderp!!11" and realize that a root problem harms everyone then maybe we would make progress.

That is unlikely to happen looking at the state of the internet's opinion on this.

And perhaps, what is most depressing, is that so many people are focused on an individuals problems (oftentimes problems that they personally face) that the root problem that causes problems for everyone is shrugged underneath.

So yes, I do think that minority problems are important, because they are often rooted in problems with how we view ourselves, and it afflicts everyone. It just hurts other people more noticably.

Most people that identify as egalitarian are white twenty-something pseudo-intellectuals that just want to speak over other groups of people.

Like for example...what place does a cishet person have in speaking about trans rights? Literally none. There's no problem with keeping things seperate..and no one seems to have a problem with that except bored cishet/white people that are upset theres no 'movement' for them. Egalitarians are kind of like those people that get mad over the lack of a White History Month when white history is already celebrated all year long.

If you're not ____, why do you care how _____ people campaign for their equality/liberation? If you want to show support just start listening to what _____ people say and call out problematic behavior done by people like you. That's how human rights are won.

Keiran said:

Most people that identify as egalitarian are white twenty-something pseudo-intellectuals that just want to speak over other groups of people.

Like for example...what place does a cishet person have in speaking about trans rights? Literally none. There's no problem with keeping things seperate..and no one seems to have a problem with that except bored cishet/white people that are upset theres no 'movement' for them. Egalitarians are kind of like those people that get mad over the lack of a White History Month when white history is already celebrated all year long.

If you're not ____, why do you care how _____ people campaign for their equality/liberation? If you want to show support just start listening to what _____ people say and call out problematic behavior done by people like you. That's how human rights are won.

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I think the role of allies is an incredibly important thing to bring up. Do you believe that someone who isn't part of the group can be part of the movement in the same way a person in the group is, or do you believe that they inherently go into a separate ally group?

Oryx said:

I think the role of allies is an incredibly important thing to bring up. Do you believe that someone who isn't part of the group can be part of the movement in the same way a person in the group is, or do you believe that they inherently go into a separate ally group?

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I feel like it's important to be inclusive in that allies are part of the same group as members of the specific group being advocated for. For example, I love, love, love when I meet men who identify as feminists. The fact that they want to actively advocate for my rights, even though they're not women, is really impressive to me. At the same time, I think it's important for an ally to realize that, as someone who is not a member of the group being advocated for, their knowledge and ability to speak for the group is not as great as someone who's actually part of the group. (I feel like I'm overusing the word group - let me know if I should try to explain any of this better.) As in, I can advocate for LGBTQ rights, and I can make an effort to understand the issues the community faces as best as possible, but I'll never truly understand, and so I don't really have the right to be a voice of that movement in the same way that someone who is actually gay or lesbian or bisexual or trans does.

Keiran said:

Most people that identify as egalitarian are white twenty-something pseudo-intellectuals that just want to speak over other groups of people.

Like for example...what place does a cishet person have in speaking about trans rights? Literally none. There's no problem with keeping things seperate..and no one seems to have a problem with that except bored cishet/white people that are upset theres no 'movement' for them. Egalitarians are kind of like those people that get mad over the lack of a White History Month when white history is already celebrated all year long.

If you're not ____, why do you care how _____ people campaign for their equality/liberation? If you want to show support just start listening to what _____ people say and call out problematic behavior done by people like you. That's how human rights are won.

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So just because I don't identify as something or am something, I can't speak about it? What if I had a lot of knowledge about the subject? You're basically saying a cis couldn't speak out in favor of non-cis people at a pride rally just because they aren't trans. Good job.

Also, I'm perfectly fine with not having a movement for me, and that's a completely unfounded and ridiculous statement to make. You can argue your case without having to resort to BASELESS ASSUMPTIONS, you know. Or not, either way you'll have at least one other person blindly agreeing with you.

Overall I have to say this is one of the most misguided, assumption-laced posts I've ever seen in this thread.

Hackenfall Backslash said:

That's all I feel like saying. I'm sure SOMEONE will pick apart what I said and twist it around to fit their victim narrative. In anticipation of that, I'll summarise my arguments below.

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I agree with you that we shouldn't expect someone else to fix our problems. It's a mentality that accomplishes very little. Keep that in mind as I show you why I disagree with all of your major arguments.

Race: White people did some ♥♥♥♥. It's old news. Let it go. The same people that are being "held down by whitey" are the same people living in white nations, going to white schools and affiliating white people/companies/organisations. Choose one. Can't have both. Either stay away from them or leave them the hell alone, UNLESS, as I've already said, it ventures into aggressive, KKK territory.

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I don't know where you live, but racism is very much alive and well in rural Midwestern America. Neither side trusts the other. The younger generations often grow beyond the old ways, but not always. And yes this is a firsthand account. All knowledge is firsthand before it's anything else.

I haven't been to every little hick town, but I've spent a lot of time in a lot of towns around here. I've lived here all my life, and I can reasonably infer that what I have seen specifically is the case generally for the rural Midwest.

What you don't seem to realize is that racism isn't big and boisterous anymore. It lurks in the shadows and the whispers. In a predominately white town, the few black people will be isolated: many (mostly older) people will avoid any contact, and even the more sensible folk are uncomfortable and avoidant. Which means that when a black person gets overcharged by a mechanic, denied for a job, screwed over by the car salesman, they have no one to go to with their issues.

Your suggestion is that they just up and leave their hometown. Which may be an option or may not, but here's the thing: they did nothing to deserve this treatment. Is it fair to require them to uproot their family? Hell no.

Honestly your suggested course of action is medieval and would almost certainly exacerbate the type of unfair treatment I mentioned above. This quiet racism can only happen when areas are predominately one color, and largely distrustful of or uncomfortable with other colors.

Sex/Gender: Men have power, but also responsibility. Until I see feminists tackling male issues (instead of tackling female issues claiming they help males too without evidence to support this), until I see feminists talking about the courts or marriage laws, until I see open and honest dialogue taking place without the 'M' word being used, until I see women going for STEM and other hard degrees and being prohibited from obtaining them (essentially proof of the wage gap/employment gap), you lot will get no quarter from me. Either practice equality or don't, but be honest about it for Christs' Sake!

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If I'm understanding this correctly, your argument is that since men are held accountable for their actions but women are not, men don't receive any sort of special treatment.

I hope I'm not understanding you correctly.

And also, are you making the argument that women shouldn't stand up for their rights unless they also stand up for men's rights? Should they also have to clean up our rivers and fund the government before being allowed to point out injustice?

Sexuality: Your sexual identity/orientation is seen as strange (or queer, as the true definition means 'strange'). No one cares as much as you think they do. Only religious whackjobs with nothing better to do. I certainly don't care. I personally find gay males much easier to deal with than straight ones. Let people say what will about you, but defend yourself if need be. Okay? OKAY!

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Once again, this is the exact opposite of what is true in the Midwest. You get shunned, beaten and otherwise mistreated if certain people even think you might be gay. And we all have heard this news stories of boys who were discovered to actually be gay and were killed in excruciatingly painful ways because of it.

I find it ironic that you accused someone of making false assertions about everyone else based on their own experience. In regards to "no one cares as much as you think they do", I can only say: put on a dress, spend some time in my neck of the woods, and I'll call the ambulance.

Keiran said:

Like for example...what place does a cishet person have in speaking about trans rights? Literally none.

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Translation: You aren't this type of person, so any and all opinions you have about these type of people are invalid.

I guess this means I have no right to speak in favor of gay rights since I'm not gay myself.

Oryx said:

I think the role of allies is an incredibly important thing to bring up. Do you believe that someone who isn't part of the group can be part of the movement in the same way a person in the group is, or do you believe that they inherently go into a separate ally group?

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The role of allies is to listen and call out problematic behavior, and it is by doing this that they can take part in a movement. For example, when black people speak about racism - I listen. And when I see white people doing something racist, I call it out. By knowing what is racist/problematic, by listening and not speaking over I can help achieve equality by calling out people like me on their behavior and educating them.

UndertakerFreak1127 said:

So just because I don't identify as something or am something, I can't speak about it? What if I had a lot of knowledge about the subject? You're basically saying a cis couldn't speak out in favor of non-cis people at a pride rally just because they aren't trans. Good job.

Also, I'm perfectly fine with not having a movement for me, and that's a completely unfounded and ridiculous statement to make. You can argue your case without having to resort to BASELESS ASSUMPTIONS, you know. Or not, either way you'll have at least one other person blindly agreeing with you.

Overall I have to say this is one of the most misguided, assumption-laced posts I've ever seen in this thread.

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CarcharOdin said:

Translation: You aren't this type of person, so any and all opinions you have about these type of people are invalid.

I guess this means I have no right to speak in favor of gay rights since I'm not gay myself.

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It is okay to use what you've learned from _____ people, like I've explained above. But we're never going to make progress if allies don't listen and believe their opinions are more valid than the people that are experiencing a specific injustice.

Keiran said:

The role of allies is to listen and call out problematic behavior, and it is by doing this that they can take part in a movement. For example, when black people speak about racism - I listen. And when I see white people doing something racist, I call it out. By knowing what is racist/problematic, by listening and not speaking over I can help achieve equality by calling out people like me on their behavior and educating them.

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Just wanted to say that I agree with this 100% and I'm glad you said it, because you put it into words much better than I could have. Listening and realizing that you can't possibly know everything about a situation you're not personally in are both so important.

caller_100 said:

I feel like it's important to be inclusive in that allies are part of the same group as members of the specific group being advocated for. For example, I love, love, love when I meet men who identify as feminists. The fact that they want to actively advocate for my rights, even though they're not women, is really impressive to me. At the same time, I think it's important for an ally to realize that, as someone who is not a member of the group being advocated for, their knowledge and ability to speak for the group is not as great as someone who's actually part of the group. (I feel like I'm overusing the word group - let me know if I should try to explain any of this better.) As in, I can advocate for LGBTQ rights, and I can make an effort to understand the issues the community faces as best as possible, but I'll never truly understand, and so I don't really have the right to be a voice of that movement in the same way that someone who is actually gay or lesbian or bisexual or trans does.

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Don't forget that feminism is also about advocating for men's rights (well equality between the genders) ;). Even groups we may have no stake in I believe should be helped (so long as they're peaceful and actually fighting for freedom that is). By helping a disadvantage group we're helping to better the lives of others and helping build a better, more inclusive society.

Keiran said:

Most people that identify as egalitarian are white twenty-something pseudo-intellectuals that just want to speak over other groups of people.

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Generalizing people is fun! Is this seriously the best you can come up with? Smearing people that you don't like with meanie words makes you a poor debater. You can't say things like this without backing it up, otherwise, it's just pretentious name calling.

If you're not ____, why do you care how _____ people campaign for their equality/liberation? If you want to show support just start listening to what _____ people say and call out problematic behavior done by people like you. That's how human rights are won.

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Like for example...what place does a cishet person have in speaking about trans rights?

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If they are knowledgable on trans related issues, then they actually have an important role as an ally.

An ally is useful because they are able to spread information to others who may not be able to spread them otherwise. This is most notable with people with disabilities - for example, tumblr is not blind accessible, despite being a very interconnected platform for many people to use. This means that if it were not for those who were aware of blind-related issues and how they affect the blind, they would never be able to propagate on this platform. In fact, tumblr is an EXCELLENT example on how NOT to represent people who cannot access a platform, but I'll go into that in a minute.

It is important to note that while these issues must not be spoken from a personal context, people's general opinions can be used to educate what concerns these individuals about these issues to educate others to eventually develop more allies. As more people become aware of injustices, they become more and more vocal.

I'm not going to cite any statistics, but I'm willing to bet that the transgender and nonbinary community is likely less than 1% of the population. With allies who can spread the message, the number of people who supports this 1% increases far more than that 1% is, and, with time, it will eventually become the majority, prompting for social opinion to change.

This is THE biggest problem with autism activism and why 90% of it is considered a joke by non-autistics. Many times autism activists either demonize or segregate themselves from others; this practice does nothing but further complicate their cause by not giving the majority a reason to support them. If a group is going to treat others as if their opinions don't matter, then why should others act like their opinions matter?

Integration is the only way that people will accept those who are different in society.

Do not question the power of having allies.

There's no problem with keeping things seperate..

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Except that it completely stunts integration and only furthers the problems of people who face oppression. There's actually a huge problem with keeping things separate, that's called segregation and it furthers oppression.

and no one seems to have a problem with that except bored cishet/white people that are upset theres no 'movement' for them.

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Again, generalizing. In fact, many egalitarians are not white nor cishet, they're just people who feel that maybe, they don't give a ♥♥♥♥ about the colour of someone's skin or what they're attracted to or what gender they identify as.

Egalitarians are kind of like those people that get mad over the lack of a White History Month when white history is already celebrated all year long.

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wat

wat wat wat wat wat

I mean, I know there's always that one ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ but come on, most people don't justify that kind of behaviour. Although, there have been people who have suggested that black history month defeats the purpose of equal rights, so there is that.

Human rights are won because people integrate themselves into society.

In short, you have done nothing to convince me nor anyone else outside of the two people who thumbs up'd you that people who support everyone's rights because they are human beings are in any way horrible people. Your statements are easily falsified by the fact that me, an egalitarian that does not fit your model of the white, cishet male who is "bored" and "whines about no white history month", exists. Please stop embarrassing yourself further with your sociology 101 drivel.

P.S. love your use of cishet, male and white as if they're inherently bad things and as if people should change to make themselves better people as if these things are a choice to be gg pokecommunity

daigonite said:

Why can't we all be egalitarians? I'm sick of seeing "whatever's rights" because the reality is that it's missing the point. There are discrepancies. Men have problems, women have problems, everyone else has problems, these problems have a root cause rooted in our own culture and ignorance. If we take a step back and instead of saying "BUT WOMYN!!!1 PRIVILEGE derpderp!!11" and realize that a root problem harms everyone then maybe we would make progress.

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I'm actually kind of confused by this... what do you think we're fighting for? Of course I believe in equal rights for everyone, but I also think that the blind sort of activism people in this thread seem to be advocating for won't do anything. Oppression is a lot more intricate and so embedded into society that some sort of "love everyone" approach won't fix these problems at their core. I don't think that if you're straight/white/whatever means that you don't have any problems, I just think that the problems you do face aren't tied to your race/sexuality/whathaveyou and aren't the product of generations of oppression.

Also, I don't see the problem with separating issues? It's not segregation, it's just acknowledging that racism/sexism/homophobia etc. have different causes and come in different forms. I mean, I can see where you're coming from (I imagine there are certain people who take dividing people too far), but I don't think it's as big an issue as people are making it out to be. Gay rights are very different than women's rights, poc rights are very different from trans rights. If you're going for some sort of blanket movement it basically ignores that these people and their problems exist. When people are so casually racist, sexist, homophobic and transphobic in society and I don't think telling them to treat everyone equally or w/e will stop that. If we want to actually solve any problem we have to understand where they come from and how they happen, and then take it from there. Focusing on groups helps to educate people on what these problems are and examine how they contribute to these problems.

What's the harm in focusing on issues individually? I'm still not seeing how it harms those who aren't oppressed in the way that gay/black/whatever people are (and I think what you/other people are suggesting harms marginalised groups a lot more - by trying to flip it around and say that just focusing on gay rights oppresses and ignores straight people, YOU are ignoring the homophobia that's been embedded in society in favour of protecting some people's feelings).

And perhaps, what is most depressing, is that so many people are focused on an individuals problems (oftentimes problems that they personally face) that the root problem that causes problems for everyone is shrugged underneath.

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What is this/are these root problem(s)? Reverse racism/homophobia doesn't exist. A black person can be prejudiced, sure, but it's not backed up by years of oppression and doesn't have the same affect as a white person being racist.

CarcharOdin said:

Translation: You aren't this type of person, so any and all opinions you have about these type of people are invalid.

I guess this means I have no right to speak in favor of gay rights since I'm not gay myself.

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You're misunderstanding. Of course you can speak out in favour of gay rights, you just can't speak over someone who's gay and tell them that they're issues aren't important or whatever because you have no experience dealing with homophobia.


I really wish we could cut out this defensive mode so many of you are taking, because to me it really comes across as a knee jerk reaction to something not being about you. I (as a white person) don't take offence to PoC speaking out about their issues and trying to gain equality because I realise that racism is very prevalent in society and that whatever problems that I might have are totally separate from the movement. If you are straight/white/cis/male, you should recognise that people who are queer/non-white/trans/female face problems that you don't, and I don't see why those groups trying to rectify this causes so many of you to get so defensive and annoyed.

they're just people who feel that maybe, they don't give a ♥♥♥♥ about the colour of someone's skin or what they're attracted to or what gender they identify as.

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I mean, this is great, but you still have to recognise that problems for these people exist and they aren't going to go away by being blind to their identity. Like... I agree with treating everyone equally, but a lot of society doesn't (whether it be openly or more subtly) and I don't think it's going to stop if they're told something as simple as treat everyone equal. It just seems like a cop out that ignores that problems that are ingrained into society.

Some people need to stop thinking of equal rights like a Zero-sum game, just because rights are given to a group doesn't necessary mean your rights are being taken away. Though there certainly are some extremists in each of the groups who would like to do just that, but those are a minority...a quite loud and annoying minority opinion, but they shouldn't be seen as making up the whole group. I think in order to attract more people to support each of the individual groups one needs to speak out against those extremists too, telling them that they don't seek to go there at all. Actually it's the extremist feminists who seem to make the feminist movement seem anti-male and put off more males and even females from joining. This is of course not true, as can be seen when one takes time to get to know several feminists (try more than just one though as sometimes that one is the extremist). Same goes for the other movements.

daigonite said:

If they are knowledgable on trans related issues, then they actually have an important role as an ally.

An ally is useful because they are able to spread information to others who may not be able to spread them otherwise. This is most notable with people with disabilities - for example, tumblr is not blind accessible, despite being a very interconnected platform for many people to use. This means that if it were not for those who were aware of blind-related issues and how they affect the blind, they would never be able to propagate on this platform. In fact, tumblr is an EXCELLENT example on how NOT to represent people who cannot access a platform, but I'll go into that in a minute.

It is important to note that while these issues must not be spoken from a personal context, people's general opinions can be used to educate what concerns these individuals about these issues to educate others to eventually develop more allies. As more people become aware of injustices, they become more and more vocal.

I'm not going to cite any statistics, but I'm willing to bet that the transgender and nonbinary community is likely less than 1% of the population. With allies who can spread the message, the number of people who supports this 1% increases far more than that 1% is, and, with time, it will eventually become the majority, prompting for social opinion to change.

This is THE biggest problem with autism activism and why 90% of it is considered a joke by non-autistics. Many times autism activists either demonize or segregate themselves from others; this practice does nothing but further complicate their cause by not giving the majority a reason to support them. If a group is going to treat others as if their opinions don't matter, then why should others act like their opinions matter?

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An ally shouldn't be 'educating' someone else with their opinion. They should be using what they've learned from trans persons, in this case. An allies opinion is irrelevant (and most likely harmful and wrong) because they have not experienced that specific injustice.

Integration is the only way that people will accept those who are different in society.

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Integration or assimilation isn't the answer. Visibility and educating people before they become bigoted adults is a better way.

Do not question the power of having allies.

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I question alliances with people that speak over and get angry when they're told they're wrong. I question the support from people that get angry when they realize their opinion isn't wanted or valid in every situation.

Except that it completely stunts integration and only furthers the problems of people who face oppression. There's actually a huge problem with keeping things separate, that's called segregation and it furthers oppression.

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..do you even know how activism works, or....

wat

wat wat wat wat wat

I mean, I know there's always that one ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ but come on, most people don't justify that kind of behaviour. Although, there have been people who have suggested that black history month defeats the purpose of equal rights, so there is that.

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Well, at least a black persons opinion matters to you when it helps your argument, I guess. But his opinion is awful and he doesn't speak for anyone but himself.

Human rights are won because people integrate themselves into society.

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Human rights are won when people who face a specific injustice are respected and listened to. Not because allies find that group of people to be subservient to allies and beneficial to their egos.

In short, you have done nothing to convince me nor anyone else outside of the two people who thumbs up'd you that people who support everyone's rights because they are human beings are in any way horrible people. Your statements are easily falsified by the fact that me, an egalitarian that does not fit your model of the white, cishet male who is "bored" and "whines about no white history month", exists. Please stop embarrassing yourself further with your sociology 101 drivel.

P.S. love your use of cishet, male and white as if they're inherently bad things and as if people should change to make themselves better people as if these things are a choice to be gg pokecommunity

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I'm not here to convince you. I recognize that some people are beneath convincing, but hopefully my posts can help others that are confused about how to be a proper ally. This is a public debate, not an argument between me & you. :')