Whats going on with the world?

God said:

On another note - since the thread is about the world falling apart (or rather, the realisation that it has been for quite some time), how many of you have hope for the future?

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I have hope, though sometimes I wonder why. I think people will survive into the far future, the environment will mostly be okay, though changed from what it is now. Enough people will adapt to the changes in climate and lifestyle that I don't think the fate of humanity will be at risk. But I think a lot of people are going to suffer and die on this long, bumpy road. I mean, there are so many people suffering right now. Those of us in developed countries don't really see it that much, or at least not the worst of it, but it'll probably start to affect us within our lifetimes and we'll just have to do the best we can to roll with the changes.

Alright, the flag has a dark past. But like most things, change over time. Some, like me grew up knowing the history and hearing of it being a symbol of the South. As for racism, how on earth can a flag be racist? It can't walk nor talk. As for the person holding the flag, they may be racist. But, that doesn't make the flag or any other flag owners racist. You can fly a flag I dislike, the only problem is it won't effect my life. Why should it? Its a flag, nothing more, nothing less. But your right God, the world is falling to pieces because of shit like this, live your life and let it fall.

DarkSkys said:

Battle Flag, better the Confederate flag, a symbol of the South. I fly this flag. Not as a hate flag but as a symbol of my heritage. Just because some nutjob kills some blacks doesn't mean this flag is racist. Its the person that uses it for that. is the one that's racist. I do not support the KKK. I watched a video earlier on this, the guy says we don't need a race war in America at this time, we have to many things now and starting a race war will just open us up for a terrorist attack.

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So your heritage is armed treason against the United States of America, then? The Battle Flag of the Army of Virginia is a symbol of treason, treason committed because the rebels wanted to preserve their "heritage", which was slavery, from "yankee aggression". That is what it symbolizes as it was originally intended to, and just because you choose not to fly it as a hate flag, doesn't mean that it isn't one. It is.

Stormbringer said:

So your heritage is armed treason against the United States of America, then? The Battle Flag of the Army of Virginia is a symbol of treason, treason committed because the rebels wanted to preserve their "heritage", which was slavery, from "yankee aggression". That is what it symbolizes as it was originally intended to, and just because you choose not to fly it as a hate flag, doesn't mean that it isn't one. It is.

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Like I said, I know the past. But, is there slavery in todays time? No, the flag was a symbol of the south in the war between the south and the north. Why is it that only now anybody trying to do anything about it? Its apart of American history, might as well get use to it. Cause regardless its going to be around.

DarkSkys said:

Like I said, I know the past. But, is there slavery in todays time? No, the flag was a symbol of the south in the war between the south and the north. Why is it that only now anybody trying to do anything about it? Its apart of American history, might as well get use to it. Cause regardless its going to be around.

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People have been condemning the flag for generations now - many have spent decades trying to 'do something about it'. However, the reason why it's garnered mass judgement from the masses once more instead of a grumbling dissatisfaction is because it is a reminder of racial intolerance during a time of rising racial tension.

DarkSkys said:

Like I said, I know the past. But, is there slavery in todays time? No, the flag was a symbol of the south in the war between the south and the north. Why is it that only now anybody trying to do anything about it? Its apart of American history, might as well get use to it. Cause regardless its going to be around.

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"Slavery no longer being practiced" doesn't change anything? The Nazi party is no longer running Germany, but the Swastiza in that iteration is still a symbol of fascism. And there's a thing called cultural awareness, where as time goes on people begin to realize more and more that things they took as just a fact of life aren't in fact, ok. It took 80+ years and the Civil War to end slavery. 100 more years to get equal rights and protection under the law, because cultural attitudes towards it gradually changed, and people fought to change it. The "stars and bars" is a relic of a dark period in America's racial past and it belongs in the past.

here's my thing when people say "the world is going to shit" and things along that line... when was the world ever okay? since mankind has walked the earth there has been oppression, rape, violence, racism, war, injustice, etc.

God said:

People have been condemning the flag for generations now - many have spent decades trying to 'do something about it'. However, the reason why it's garnered mass judgement from the masses once more instead of a grumbling dissatisfaction is because it is a reminder of racial intolerance during a time of rising racial tension.

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Stormbringer said:

"Slavery no longer being practiced" doesn't change anything? The Nazi party is no longer running Germany, but the Swastiza in that iteration is still a symbol of fascism. And there's a thing called cultural awareness, where as time goes on people begin to realize more and more that things they took as just a fact of life aren't in fact, ok. It took 80+ years and the Civil War to end slavery. 100 more years to get equal rights and protection under the law, because cultural attitudes towards it gradually changed, and people fought to change it. The "stars and bars" is a relic of a dark period in America's racial past and it belongs in the past.

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Maybe its just me, but there's no way in hell I could an immovable object be considered racist. The people that use it for that purpose are complete idiots. now if we're going to ban the Confederate flag for being a war flag from the past, then why not ban the American flag? Its also a battle flag. Regardless, if anyone likes it or not people will still fly it.

This still going?


Anyways, anybody know the main reason for that war? Wasn't just about slavery, it was mostly about the South paying taxes to the North. Even then politics were crap. Well I asked the question earlier, how does the flag effect your life, no answer, so I assume nobody's effected by it. So I ask this, why make a big deal about? I've heard that the past needs to stay buried, yet everybody keeps digging it up. And its true, no matter what anybody says, that flag will remain flying.

DarkSkys said:

Maybe its just me, but there's no way in hell I could an immovable object be considered racist. The people that use it for that purpose are complete idiots. now if we're going to ban the Confederate flag for being a war flag from the past, then why not ban the American flag? Its also a battle flag. Regardless, if anyone likes it or not people will still fly it.

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Similar to what I said in my first post, I feel compelled to ask again, what exactly is the problem then? Flying it isn't outlawed, so there isn't anything actually stopping you from flying it. And you just said "Regardless, if anyone likes it or not people will still fly it", so what are you even complaining about? o: (maybe complaining is too strong a word, but it gets my point across)

Your first post was about what the world is coming to, and you brought up recent events, but the only thing that happened with the Confederate flag recently was that it was taken down from in front of the capital building in South Carolina and moved to a museum.(which is a good place for a piece of history, isn't it?)

Sopheria said:

Your first post was about what the world is coming to, and you brought up recent events, but the only thing that happened with the Confederate flag recently was that it was taken down from in front of the capital building in South Carolina and moved to a museum.(which is a good place for a piece of history, isn't it?)

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The issue is that people that do fly this flag for "heritage" and the like are angry that the flag is receiving this treatment as of late. So even though that's really the only official action that's been taken, as far as I'm aware of anyway, people think that this is going to go further (and it is) and call for removal of their flag that they fly with such pride. And I guess if you don't live in a southern state, you don't really get all of that (be thankful), but it's literally everywhere here.

I also failed to mention that the same day I was making my way home from Mississippi back into the not that much better Alabama, I passed another Confederate flag rally (a tacky one on the side of a busy street) and there was news about someone, my ex-step dad actually, getting told to remove his flag by an African-American Congressman. Him being him, he's not going to and decided that he's going to host Confederate flag rallies at his barber shop. lol So yeah, if you don't live in these areas, you're really lucky. It's literally all I see when I sign on Facebook and I think the sudden outcry against the flag has caused even more to be seen.

Sopheria said:

Your first post was about what the world is coming to, and you brought up recent events, but the only thing that happened with the Confederate flag recently was that it was taken down from in front of the capital building in South Carolina and moved to a museum.(which is a good place for a piece of history, isn't it?)

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Nascar has a ban on the flag, any fan that has it on there trucks can not come on Nascar land. Then you have stores not selling the classic 1969 Dodge Chargers that comes from the 1970s show the "Dukes of Hazards". Due to the top of the General Lee is a rebel flag. And there's also networks that ran the re-runs of the show pulling the show.

R2J said:

This still going?

Anyways, anybody know the main reason for that war? Wasn't just about slavery, it was mostly about the South paying taxes to the North. Even then politics were crap. Well I asked the question earlier, how does the flag effect your life, no answer, so I assume nobody's effected by it. So I ask this, why make a big deal about? I've heard that the past needs to stay buried, yet everybody keeps digging it up. And its true, no matter what anybody says, that flag will remain flying.

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Yeah, it wasn't just about slavery. Slavery was just a mere 98% of the causes of the war- the only argument brought up by each and every seceding State when leaving and even the only cause some States mentioned at all: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/06/19/1394560/-So-The-Confederacy-Didn-t-Go-To-War-Over-Slavery Please, look at Mississippi:

Sentence two begins, "Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery."

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Meanwhile, Alexander Stephens, Vice-President of the CSA said such beautiful things like

Our new government is founded upon . . . its foundations are laid, its corner-stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery – subordination to the superior race – is his natural and normal condition.

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Similarily, the biggest differences between the US and the CS Constitutions are all about slavery: http://www.jjmccullough.com/CSA.htm

Obviously, a flag that represents the defence of slavery (and remember, what matters is not how you see it, but how the flag is seen outside) is going to cause constant harm to descendants of those enslaved, which is made worse by the fact that they were legally second-class citizens until 60 years ago and they continue to be discriminated against until today. The past needs to be buried, but it's hard to leave it buried when a piece of the past (the flag) is not buried but flying in everybody's faces. Can you imagine how well the EU would be doing if there still were Nazi flags flying all over Germany, and the German leaders told the citizens of the countries that were invaded by then to "bury the past" and not be offended by them when they went to, say, Frankfurt to discuss something in the European Central Bank HQ?

How can that flag offend anybody? By reminding black Americans that their neighbours support a regime that would have had them enslaved, which is certainly the best way to foster friendship and cooperation between a population.

Ivysaur said:

Yeah, it wasn't just about slavery. Slavery was just a mere 98% of the causes of the war- the only argument brought up by each and every seceding State when leaving and even the only cause some States mentioned at all: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/06/19/1394560/-So-The-Confederacy-Didn-t-Go-To-War-Over-Slavery Please, look at Mississippi:



Meanwhile, Alexander Stephens, Vice-President of the CSA said such beautiful things like



Similarily, the biggest differences between the US and the CS Constitutions are all about slavery: http://www.jjmccullough.com/CSA.htm

Obviously, a flag that represents the defence of slavery (and remember, what matters is not how you see it, but how the flag is seen outside) is going to cause constant harm to descendants of those enslaved, which is made worse by the fact that they were legally second-class citizens until 60 years ago and they continue to be discriminated against until today. The past needs to be buried, but it's hard to leave it buried when a piece of the past (the flag) is not buried but flying in everybody's faces. Can you imagine how well the EU would be doing if there still were Nazi flags flying all over Germany, and the German leaders told the citizens of the countries that were invaded by then to "bury the past" and not be offended by them when they went to, say, Frankfurt to discuss something in the European Central Bank HQ?

How can that flag offend anybody? By reminding black Americans that their neighbours support a regime that would have had them enslaved, which is certainly the best way to foster friendship and cooperation between a population.

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But now trying to make a race war of home turf? That would mean history repeats itself. As for my personal thought on what's fucked up in this world, its politics. The flag is gonna no matter what people say, at least this generation, next generation who knows.

R2J said:

But now trying to make a race war of home turf? That would mean history repeats itself. As for my personal thought on what's fucked up in this world, its politics. The flag is gonna no matter what people say, at least this generation, next generation who knows.

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'Course, you could argue that the "race war" has never ended in the South (and in most of the US as a whole), where black people are more likely to be poor, uneducated, unemployed, incarcerated or killed violently; laws make voting harder for them and the mainstream opinion is that blacks "are okay" but "shouldn't be trusted as much as a white person". Obviously, it wasn't as much of a war as long as blacks were openly and freely discriminated against and any attempts to argue against it were crushed. The problem is that discrimination is not openly accepted as the "right thing" anymore, which forces people in favour of it to defend an oppression that had been considered "the normal" until then, which, obviously, takes far more effort and is more likely to fail. When blacks weren't allowed into pools because "that's how things work here", nobody had to break a sweat to defend the status quo. Now that such a thing is frowned upon, anybody who still thinks blacks should stay away from whites has to openly argue for a clearly racist measure- that is "the war", nothing more, nothing less.

Politics is just the way humans have to discuss our opinions, make rules and try to find solutions to our problems and disagreements. Politics is deciding whether you need to build a school or give a tax break to a company or invest in weapons or in investigation or in filling potholes in the road. That's politics. Everything is politics.

Ivysaur said:

'Course, you could argue that the "race war" has never ended in the South (and in most of the US as a whole), where black people are more likely to be poor, uneducated, unemployed, incarcerated or killed violently; laws make voting harder for them and the mainstream opinion is that blacks "are okay" but "shouldn't be trusted as much as a white person". Obviously, it wasn't as much of a war as long as blacks were openly and freely discriminated against and any attempts to argue against it were crushed. The problem is that discrimination is not openly accepted as the "right thing" anymore, which forces people in favour of it to defend an oppression that had been considered "the normal" until then, which, obviously, takes far more effort and is more likely to fail. When blacks weren't allowed into pools because "that's how things work here", nobody had to break a sweat to defend the status quo. Now that such a thing is frowned upon, anybody who still thinks blacks should stay away from whites has to openly argue for a clearly racist measure- that is "the war", nothing more, nothing less.

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This is just people living in the past, the war was long ago just move on. Honestly I don't care what people think of me, I'm here for one purpose. That's to live my life, you act as though I fly the flag. Never said I flew it. I live around, grew up around it. But, I don't care who flies it, who believes in the past. Such as the Ku Klux Klan, every last member can kiss my ass. Same goes for the other "racist" clan Black Panthers. Those two groups can go at it all they want, I'll sit at home and live my life. If your not getting it, I don't care if you white, black, pink, yellow or green. We're all brothers and sisters in the eyes of the lord. As for what I'm saying on this topic, no matter what anyone says or does that flag will remain flying. That flag has a strong bond with people in the South. So there are many that will fly it anyways. Its the teaching in the house growing up now, they don't learn the history till High School so they believe what they we're raised on and pass it to the next generation.

This whole argument about the Confederate Flag reminds me of this one episode of South Park, where the kids who opposed of changing their town flag was because violence was a natural thing. They never viewed the flag as racist, which should be a key point in debates like this. Kids wouldn't even care about its original intention and use an entirely different perspective of it.


As for what's going on with the world, it's same as it always was, only more visible for everyone to see via social media and television, and it's taking them this long to try "fix" it.

The flag does have a strong bond in the south, both good (though I use this term loosely) and bad. Good for those that call it heritage and have ancestors that served in the war, a sense of pride. Bad for those that were oppressed by it then and still are today. I think the negative outweighs the positive by a longshot and I'd rather not see it flown. And even without the racial connotations, I still don't see why people want to fly a flag for a country of states that seceded from the nation they're currently living in.

I think we all need to recognize that symbols can be appropriated and re-appropriated, and saying that a symbol must mean X is doing a disservice to those who have taken the symbol to mean something else for a long time.

I really don't think that "Southern Pride" is a euphemism for continued racial hate or a movement to bring back or support a Confederate regime. I don't know, but I believe that those in the South are as proud for being Americans and living in the US of A as any other American. I feel that there's so much unquestioned attribution of slavery to that flag in this thread that I really have to wonder: what do those who fly that flag believe?

I think it's unreasonable to assume that a symbol can only have one meaning. We talk about how the flag represents an ideology and a regime of racial superiority as if that's the only way to view the flag. But it's clearly not, and that's the reason why people are outraged at the prospect that the flag is becoming increasingly politically incorrect. I would imagine that someone who truly is proud of their Southern culture and heritage and acknowledges and dissociates themselves from the faults of the past would feel threatened if more and more people start believing that just because they fly that flag, they are racists, they hate blacks, and whatever other connotations we seem to be imposing.

And for the sake of subverting Godwin's law for the rest of the thread, I don't believe that the Dixie flag is comparable to the Nazi swastika, which has been used by no one but hate and racial superiority ideologues.

Is there anyone who truly believes that those who fly the Dixie flag strictly as a symbol of their pride in their Southern culture are in the minority and that the majority of people who use that symbol would like to see the progress made in race relations and equality in the past several decades overturned?

i want to see these blue and green people that are brought up whenever someone says that we're all just human beings or the like