Red/Blue remakes on 3DS

BettyNewbie · Mar 2, 2015

Shiny_Unown said:
I'm positive that during the creation of RSE, they intended to make it as big as Gold/Silver (having two regions). but it couldn't fit it all due to overestimating the capabilities of the GBA. so separating it was most likely necessary. looking back at GBA's line of games. i never really saw a complete SNES level game except for the ports themselves.

There's actually some merit to this. Hidden in RS's data are unused remixes from Gen 2, which suggests that Johto may have been planned as a secondary postgame region at one time. The fact that May/Brendan are stated in the games to come from Johto may be an artifact from these early plans.

There's also an unused string of text referring to the Time Capsule in RS's data, which might also suggest that GF was toying around with backwards compatibility with RBY/GSC early in development.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire said:
Anyways it appears that Gf wants to isolate the regions from one another, just look at the skip in route numbers between Kanto-Johto and Hoenn, Hoenn and Sinnoh, the reset of the route numbering back to 1 for Unova, and again for Kalos. It's speculated that the reason the Sevii islands lack route numbers was that it would have to pick up where Johto left off and fool people into thinking Johto was in the game too.

Yeah, GF seems to be happy with every new region being an isolated "mini-reboot" with few-to-no connections to the previous ones. Continuity is hard.

Conveniently, this makes things easier for the anime, since sending Ash back to old regions to collect old badges is obviously out of the question. (Hence, the reason why they created a brand new League for Johto instead of just sending Ash back to the Indigo Plateau.)

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire · Mar 2, 2015

Maybe after they remake Sinnoh (and Kanto?) they'll make a game with all 4 Japanese regions (or make it part of a Yellow remake.) Anyways they should at least include the Original Saga regions in a Yellow remake with Sevii and/or Orange popping up at some point.

Cerberus87 · Mar 3, 2015

BettyNewbie said:
There's actually some merit to this. Hidden in RS's data are unused remixes from Gen 2, which suggests that Johto may have been planned as a secondary postgame region at one time. The fact that May/Brendan are stated in the games to come from Johto may be an artifact from these early plans.

There's also an unused string of text referring to the Time Capsule in RS's data, which might also suggest that GF was toying around with backwards compatibility with RBY/GSC early in development.

Usually this kind of stuff is leftovers from earlier games or something they put in to test things, but it's interesting nonetheless.

BettyNewbie said:
Yeah, GF seems to be happy with every new region being an isolated "mini-reboot" with few-to-no connections to the previous ones. Continuity is hard.

Conveniently, this makes things easier for the anime, since sending Ash back to old regions to collect old badges is obviously out of the question. (Hence, the reason why they created a brand new League for Johto instead of just sending Ash back to the Indigo Plateau.)

I think the first four are supposed to be pretty close to each other, but Unova and Kalos are stated to be far away from the others.

BettyNewbie · Mar 3, 2015

Cerberus87 said:
Usually this kind of stuff is leftovers from earlier games or something they put in to test things, but it's interesting nonetheless.

These can't be leftovers since RS were built up from scratch. The Time Capsule text is especially odd, since RS were particularly infamous for their lack of backwards compatibility. As I said, it makes me wonder if GF was toying around with compatibility early in development, like through a one-way transfer (possibly involving the GameCube) and just scrapped it because it would be too difficult.

Any plans to include Johto as a postgame region may have been a similar story. It's possible that GF wanted to include Johto as a means of obtaining the "missing" Pokémon without trading back with RBY/GSC, but then ran out of space after making Hoenn so large. As I said, I always found it odd how May/Brendan were stated in the games to have moved to Hoenn from Johto, yet Johto, itself, was never revisited in the games. (Even FRLG didn't directly reference Johto, despite literally taking place next door to it.) Could this be an artifact from these scrapped plans?

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire · Mar 3, 2015

BettyNewbie said:
These can't be leftovers since RS were built up from scratch. The Time Capsule text is especially odd, since RS were particularly infamous for their lack of backwards compatibility. As I said, it makes me wonder if GF was toying around with compatibility early in development, like through a one-way transfer (possibly involving the GameCube) and just scrapped it because it would be too difficult.

Any plans to include Johto as a postgame region may have been a similar story. It's possible that GF wanted to include Johto as a means of obtaining the "missing" Pokémon without trading back with RBY/GSC, but then ran out of space after making Hoenn so large. As I said, I always found it odd how May/Brendan were stated in the games to have moved to Hoenn from Johto, yet Johto, itself, was never revisited in the games. (Even FRLG didn't directly reference Johto, despite literally taking place next door to it.) Could this be an artifact from these scrapped plans?

The Johto music could also had been planned for an eventual Kanto remake with Johto in it but was dropped, and instead the music was used for the Sevii islands.

The scary thing is that this Gen almost ended up like Gen III had the Pokebank not worked (GF said they were trying different stuff to try to enable transfer from Gen V to VI prior to confirming Pokebank). Actually my guess is that the mass amount of Pokemon in the Kalos dexes was an attempt of avoiding another Hoenn should Pokebank fail, while ORAS having all of the legends is likely an extension of this. It does make one wonder if GF might have made plans to remake Kanto-Unova too.

BettyNewbie · Mar 3, 2015

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire said:
The Johto music could also had been planned for an eventual Kanto remake with Johto in it but was dropped, and instead the music was used for the Sevii islands.

Couldn't be, because the Johto song in RS is Route 38's music, while FRLG only used the Violet/Azalea/Lake of Rage themes. And, there's zero evidence that Johto was ever planned for FRLG; as I said, the region isn't even mentioned by name in the entire game, despite literally taking place next door to it.

FRLG acted as if Johto never existed, which felt like a slap in the face to anyone who had played and enjoyed the Gen 2 games just a few years earlier. The games really were made for newcomers instead of veterans. :sideways:

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire said:
The scary thing is that this Gen almost ended up like Gen III had the Pokebank not worked (GF said they were trying different stuff to try to enable transfer from Gen V to VI prior to confirming Pokebank). Actually my guess is that the mass amount of Pokemon in the Kalos dexes was an attempt of avoiding another Hoenn should Pokebank fail, while ORAS having all of the legends is likely an extension of this. It does make one wonder if GF might have made plans to remake Kanto-Unova too.

That's what I've always thought, too. Of course, for the purposes of official tournaments and Pokédex completion, Blue Pentagon restrictions ended up causing a similar effect, anyways. Before ORAS, many Pokémon were still unavailable in the Gen 6 games, and while you could, at least, breed most of them to get a Blue Pentagon, there was no doing that with Legendaries (hence the reason why ORAS crammed as many of them into one game). Now, there are only 5 Pokémon left that are still unavailable in Gen 6, and they're all event Legendaries that don't count towards Dex completion and are banned in official tournaments, anyways--Mew, Manaphy, Arceus, Meloetta, and Genesect.

Gligar · Mar 4, 2015

Tbh, I'd like to have a new region more than a red and blue re-make. We already have ORAS, which is a re-make, so I don't think a re-make after a re-make will be fun.

Think about it, when X and Y came out, there was so much hype, the hype stayed like for months and months! But for ORAS, after a couple of months or so, people got less hyped about it.

I'm just saying I would LOVE a new region with ne pokemon, cuz new regions are just naturally more fun than re-makes!

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire · Mar 4, 2015

BettyNewbie said:
Couldn't be, because the Johto song in RS is Route 38's music, while FRLG only used the Violet/Azalea/Lake of Rage themes. And, there's zero evidence that Johto was ever planned for FRLG; as I said, the region isn't even mentioned by name in the entire game, despite literally taking place next door to it.

FRLG acted as if Johto never existed, which felt like a slap in the face to anyone who had played and enjoyed the Gen 2 games just a few years earlier. The games really were made for newcomers instead of veterans. :sideways:

That's what I've always thought, too. Of course, for the purposes of official tournaments and Pokédex completion, Blue Pentagon restrictions ended up causing a similar effect, anyways. Before ORAS, many Pokémon were still unavailable in the Gen 6 games, and while you could, at least, breed most of them to get a Blue Pentagon, there was no doing that with Legendaries (hence the reason why ORAS crammed as many of them into one game). Now, there are only 5 Pokémon left that are still unavailable in Gen 6, and they're all event Legendaries that don't count towards Dex completion and are banned in official tournaments, anyways--Mew, Manaphy, Arceus, Meloetta, and Genesect.

I think a Kanto remake with Mew having a post game plot similar to Deoxys (but not necessary as world destroying) and being captured afterwards can take care of one of those five. Also the new movie is said to have an event Arceus (Japan only) so the only ones left are going to be Mew, Manaphy, Meloetta, and Genesect (well for Japan as I don't believe those of us outside of Japan will get an Arceus event anytime soon, plus its been ages since we last had a Shaymin event...then there's Jirachi, Victini, and Keldeo.)
Actually Kanto is the only region to not have a legend (,or even a mascot outside of Pikachu) (that we know as of right now) in the newest movie (Gen II: Lugia, Gen III: Weather Trio, Gen IV: Creation Trio, Regigigas, Gen V: Tao Trio, Gen VI: Hoopa)...but then again we did see Mewtwo in the last movie of Gen V's anime saga.

BettyNewbie · Mar 4, 2015

mimimahboul said:
Tbh, I'd like to have a new region more than a red and blue re-make. We already have ORAS, which is a re-make, so I don't think a re-make after a re-make will be fun.

Think about it, when X and Y came out, there was so much hype, the hype stayed like for months and months! But for ORAS, after a couple of months or so, people got less hyped about it.

I'm just saying I would LOVE a new region with ne pokemon, cuz new regions are just naturally more fun than re-makes!

I see you're a younger fan. :P

I've moved past the point of caring about new regions, myself. I still haven't fully warmed up to Hoenn, Sinnoh, and Unova, and Kalos doesn't incite anything but a shrug from me. It's hard for new regions to stick or even feel special anymore when GF is constantly hitting the reset button with every new Gen and re-recycling the same basic formula they've been using since RS ad nauseum. When so many previous regions and characters have stories that are still incomplete, it's hard to give a damn about the new ones.

It would be a dream come true if Gen 7's main games were not another micro-reboot, but instead, a direct sequel to a previous Generation. (You know, like what Gen 2 was to Gen 1?) I'm more than ready to see older regions and characters in games that aren't remakes.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire said:
I think a Kanto remake with Mew having a post game plot similar to Deoxys (but not necessary as world destroying) and being captured afterwards can take care of one of those five. Also the new movie is said to have an event Arceus (Japan only) so the only ones left are going to be Mew, Manaphy, Meloetta, and Genesect (well for Japan as I don't believe those of us outside of Japan will get an Arceus event anytime soon, plus its been ages since we last had a Shaymin event...then there's Jirachi, Victini, and Keldeo.)

Yeah, Japan gets all of the goods for themselves. :rolleyes2: As I said, luckily, none of these Pokémon are actually required for Dex completion (because that would be cruel), and they're all banned from official tournaments, anyways, but right now, it's impossible to get a Blue Pentagon on them without cheating.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire · Mar 4, 2015

BettyNewbie said:
I see you're a younger fan. :P

I've moved past the point of caring about new regions, myself. I still haven't fully warmed up to Hoenn, Sinnoh, and Unova, and Kalos doesn't incite anything but a shrug from me. It's hard for new regions to stick or even feel special anymore when GF is constantly hitting the reset button with every new Gen and re-recycling the same basic formula they've been using since RS ad nauseum. When so many previous regions and characters have stories that are still incomplete, it's hard to give a damn about the new ones.

It would be a dream come true if Gen 7's main games were not another micro-reboot, but instead, a direct sequel to a previous Generation. (You know, like what Gen 2 was to Gen 1?) I'm more than ready to see older regions and characters in games that aren't remakes.

Yeah, Japan gets all of the goods for themselves. :rolleyes2: As I said, luckily, none of these Pokémon are actually required for Dex completion (because that would be cruel), and they're all banned from official tournaments, anyways, but right now, it's impossible to get a Blue Pentagon on them without cheating.

I think that Gen VII is our best bet for that right now. In all likelihood it'll be a Kalos sequel (the fact that the next Kalos games may be prequels leaves space for a sequel to XY in the form of Gen VII). Of course it may get boring to see Kalos again...if it gets two prequels this Gen it'll have 4 games, as much as Japanese Kanto, and then likely Gen VII will have more versions than the Johto games had (in three). Some would say Hoenn but there's not much to do in Hoenn so it'll be as boring as Kanto in Gen II/IV was (unless if it has the Frontier...) Maybe it could be Unova sequels in a nearby region and we'll get the Original dragon in the end.

Funny that we're talking about sequels in this thread as there is a decent chuck that would rather see sequels rather than remakes of old games...

BettyNewbie · Mar 4, 2015

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire said:
I think that Gen VII is our best bet for that right now. In all likelihood it'll be a Kalos sequel (the fact that the next Kalos games may be prequels leaves space for a sequel to XY in the form of Gen VII). Of course it may get boring to see Kalos again...if it gets two prequels this Gen it'll have 4 games, as much as Japanese Kanto, and then likely Gen VII will have more versions than the Johto games had (in three). Some would say Hoenn but there's not much to do in Hoenn so it'll be as boring as Kanto in Gen II/IV was (unless if it has the Frontier...)

A Hoenn sequel could be easy way to reintroduce Emerald features (like the BF, Juan, etc.) that people were upset about seeing scrapped without retreading the Gen 3 story a third time. As for Kalos, well, many fans considered the region to be bland and forgettable, so a sequel would have the potential to redeem it and fix its many storytelling issues.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire said:
Maybe it could be Unova sequels in a nearby region and we'll get the Original dragon in the end.

Uh, Unova already got its sequels. :P And, besides, none of those games exist on the current timeline anymore.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire said:
Funny that we're talking about sequels in this thread as there is a decent chuck that would rather see sequels rather than remakes of old games...

Well, that opportunity was kind of missed as soon as FRLG were greenlit. {XD} Plus, the new timeline kind of prevents sequels to games other than XY or ORAS, as you can't have a sequel without a prequel, and I seriously doubt that GF will ever return to an older timeline.

(Plus, anything that involves Kanto/Johto would be a sequel to a sequel and would probably screw up continuity even more than HGSS did in relation to FRLG. A sequel would be saddled with HGSS's storytelling flaws, such as Kris and Green not existing, Giovanni not being repentant about Team Rocket's actions (and the poor send-off Team Rocket got, in general), Lorelei being non-existent in a vacant black hole, Agatha being presumably dead without importance, and so on.)

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire · Mar 4, 2015

BettyNewbie said:
A Hoenn sequel could be easy way to reintroduce Emerald features (like the BF, Juan, etc.) that people were upset about seeing scrapped without retreading the Gen 3 story a third time. As for Kalos, well, many fans considered the region to be bland and forgettable, so a sequel would have the potential to redeem it and fix its many storytelling issues.

Uh, Unova already got its sequels. :P And, besides, none of those games exist on the current timeline anymore.

Well, that opportunity was kind of missed as soon as FRLG were greenlit. {XD} Plus, the new timeline kind of prevents sequels to games other than XY or ORAS, as you can't have a sequel without a prequel, and I seriously doubt that GF will ever return to an older timeline.

(Plus, anything that involves Kanto/Johto would be a sequel to a sequel and would probably screw up continuity even more than HGSS did in relation to FRLG. A sequel would be saddled with HGSS's storytelling flaws, such as Kris and Green not existing, Giovanni not being repentant about Team Rocket's actions (and the poor send-off Team Rocket got, in general), Lorelei being non-existent in a vacant black hole, Agatha being presumably dead without importance, and so on.)

I meant a sequel to B2W2 to conclude the story, but you're right it wouldn't work...
Well at this point if Gen VII resets the timeline back to Gen I/III (or any that is before Kalos XY) time then we can say goodbye to possible Hoenn sequels too (at least until Delta Emerald is made...) as that'll essentially throw the current timeline out of the window like RSE and FRLG themselves did with the Original timeline...

Green? Oh right 'Leaf' :P I'm surprised they didn't give her a real name...in Japan they should have named her Blue and outside of Japan Green. Fun fact, Red is actually one of her default names...I think that's the only such case.
Well we got Lyra...so it's only Leaf that is missing...

BettyNewbie · Mar 4, 2015

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire said:
Well at this point if Gen VII resets the timeline back to Gen I/III (or any that is before Kalos XY) time then we can say goodbye to possible Hoenn sequels too (at least until Delta Emerald is made...) as that'll essentially throw the current timeline out of the window like RSE and FRLG themselves did with the Original timeline...

Delta Emerald won't be made, sorry. :P

The timeline is pretty screwed up, mostly thanks to Gen 6's poor writing and planning. A lot of times, I really do wish that ORAS had been sequels instead...

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire said:
Green? Oh right 'Leaf' :P I'm surprised they didn't give her a real name...in Japan they should have named her Blue and outside of Japan Green. Fun fact, Red is actually one of her default names...I think that's the only such case.

Well, her Adventures counterpart (aka. pretty much the only version of her that has an official name) is "Blue" in Japan and "Green" overseas. I prefer to call her Green, because I feel that would've been her canon name had she been canonized (as she should've). "Leaf" makes zero sense, and it doesn't have any parallelism with Red and Blue, unlike the other protagonist names.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire said:
Well we got Lyra...

Lyra is not Kris. Not in any stretch of the imagination.

Cerberus87 · Mar 4, 2015

BettyNewbie said:
I've moved past the point of caring about new regions, myself. I still haven't fully warmed up to Hoenn, Sinnoh, and Unova, and Kalos doesn't incite anything but a shrug from me. It's hard for new regions to stick or even feel special anymore when GF is constantly hitting the reset button with every new Gen and re-recycling the same basic formula they've been using since RS ad nauseum. When so many previous regions and characters have stories that are still incomplete, it's hard to give a damn about the new ones.

Unova could've been the best region if GF didn't have the asinine idea of placing most of the cities around the Entralink and the rest in what's basically a straight line to Nimbasa. It made sense, but it wasn't good design.

I quite like Kalos, myself. It's way diverse.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire · Mar 4, 2015

BettyNewbie said:
Delta Emerald won't be made, sorry. :P

The timeline is pretty screwed up, mostly thanks to Gen 6's poor writing and planning. A lot of times, I really do wish that ORAS had been sequels instead...

Well, her Adventures counterpart (aka. pretty much the only version of her that has an official name) is "Blue" in Japan and "Green" overseas. I prefer to call her Green, because I feel that would've been her canon name had she been canonized (as she should've). "Leaf" makes zero sense, and it doesn't have any parallelism with Red and Blue, unlike the other protagonist names.

Lyra is not Kris. Not in any stretch of the imagination.

I mean in due time, not right away...I mean Hoenn will eventually need re-remakes too you know (and this is why people rather not have re-remakes to begin with folks...)

BettyNewbie · Mar 5, 2015

Cerberus87 said:
Unova could've been the best region if GF didn't have the asinine idea of placing most of the cities around the Entralink and the rest in what's basically a straight line to Nimbasa. It made sense, but it wasn't good design.

I quite like Kalos, myself. It's way diverse.

Unova's more involved story could be partially blamed for its linear design. The Gym Leaders were directly involved in the plot, so it was actually necessary to fight them all in order, which required making the region extremely linear to avoid any possibility of sequence breaking.

As for Kalos, well, it has a very large Pokédex. :P

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire said:
I mean in due time, not right away...I mean Hoenn will eventually need re-remakes too you know (and this is why people rather not have re-remakes to begin with folks...)

Yeah, it's a hard reality that remakes, themselves, will eventually become outdated, which is just something that can't be avoided at all. Again, it makes me wish that ORAS had just been sequels, which would've avoided this mess to begin with.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire · Mar 5, 2015

BettyNewbie said:
Unova's more involved story could be partially blamed for its linear design. The Gym Leaders were directly involved in the plot, so it was actually necessary to fight them all in order, which required making the region extremely linear to avoid any possibility of sequence breaking.

As for Kalos, well, it has a very large Pokédex. :P

Yeah, it's a hard reality that remakes, themselves, will eventually become outdated, which is just something that can't be avoided at all. Again, it makes me wish that ORAS had just been sequels, which would've avoided this mess to begin with.

If ORAS were sequels they would've needed to have the BF xD. Also the evil Team would likely have been a copy of Neo Rocket or Neo Plasma...and those two are my least favorite Villainous Teams... I say this as they likely would've revived Magma and/or Aqua...also what would they be sequels of, RS or Emerald? (well considering the Delta Episode Emerald would've been likely). Hoenn is the region with the least hanging plot lines, as Archie and Maxie actually gave up unlike Giovanni, also the legends were taken care of. Maybe if they were Gen VII and was simply a post game place (they would've been loose sequels though)...
Things may have worked better if GF had made RSE take place some time after GSC and had FRLg restart the timeline, splitting the Gen between two timelines (it'll require putting them at the end of the Generation or in Gen IV all together), and had RSE take place at the same time as XY, and then reset once more for Gen VII and Kanto remakes...

BettyNewbie · Mar 5, 2015

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire said:
If ORAS were sequels they would've needed to have the BF xD. Also the evil Team would likely have been a copy of Neo Rocket or Neo Plasma...and those two are my least favorite Villainous Teams... I say this as they likely would've revived Magma and/or Aqua...also what would they be sequels of, RS or Emerald? (well considering the Delta Episode Emerald would've been likely). Hoenn is the region with the least hanging plot lines, as Archie and Maxie actually gave up unlike Giovanni, also the legends were taken care of. Maybe if they were Gen VII and was simply a post game place (they would've been loose sequels though)...

They could've just had a new evil team, maybe one based around Sand/the desert that used Rock/Ground Pokémon. Obviously, it would've been a sequel to Emerald instead of RS.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire said:
Things may have worked better if GF had made RSE take place some time after GSC and had FRLg restart the timeline, splitting the Gen between two timelines (it'll require putting them at the end of the Generation or in Gen IV all together), and had RSE take place at the same time as XY, and then reset once more for Gen VII and Kanto remakes...

... Which is pretty similar to what they did with XY and ORAS, and we all know how that turned out. :P

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire · Mar 5, 2015

BettyNewbie said:
They could've just had a new evil team, maybe one based around Sand/the desert that used Rock/Ground Pokémon. Obviously, it would've been a sequel to Emerald instead of RS.

... Which is pretty similar to what they did with XY and ORAS, and we all know how that turned out. :P

Well that's why I said put it at the end of the Generation, or in Gen IV all together. GF should've done ORAS at the end of Gen VII I think...and had Gen VII and Kanto re-remakes pick up from there. We could also have avoided this mess if RSE had been remade in Gen V instead...(more so if Gen V was on the 3DS instead of the DS).

Anyways crying over spilled Moomoo Milk won't help now...

BettyNewbie · Mar 5, 2015

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire said:
Anyways crying over spilled Moomoo Milk won't help now...

No, it won't. What's done is done.

At this point, the main thing that needs to be taken into account is practicality, and it's simply more practical to remake RBY over DPP next. It's the only Gen that can't be played on the 3DS in any way, shape, or form, and the games are also far more outdated and thus, stand to gain more from a fresh remake. Yes, it's a remake of a Gen that has already been remade, but said remake is over a decade old now, and there isn't an easy, practical, legal way to play either version of the Gen anymore.

Red/Blue remakes on 3DS

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Mega Houndoom, baby!

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