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  #1    
Old July 29th, 2013, 08:31 AM
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In a sense anyway. What he said was: "If a person is gay and seeks God and has good will, who am I to judge them?"


Quote:
Originally Posted by BBC News
Pope Francis has said gay people should not be marginalised but integrated into society.

Speaking to reporters on a flight back from Brazil, he reaffirmed the Roman Catholic Church's position that homosexual acts were sinful, but homosexual orientation was not.

He was responding to questions about whether there was a "gay lobby" in the Vatican.

"If a person is gay and seeks God and has good will, who am I to judge them?"

He also said he wanted a greater role for women in the Church, but insisted they could not be priests.

The Pope arrived back in Rome on Monday after a week-long tour of Brazil - his first trip abroad as pontiff - which climaxed with a huge gathering on Rio de Janeiro's Copacabana beach for a world Catholic youth festival.

Festival organisers estimated it attracted more than three million people.

His remarks on gay people are being seen as much more conciliatory than his predecessor's position on the issue.

Pope Benedict XVI signed a document in 2005 that said men with deep-rooted homosexual tendencies should not be priests.

But Pope Francis said gay clergymen should be forgiven and their sins forgotten.

"The Catechism of the Catholic Church explains this very well," Pope Francis said in a wide-ranging 80-minute long interview with Vatican journalists.

"It says they should not be marginalised because of this but that they must be integrated into society."

But he condemned what he described as lobbying by gay people.

"The problem is not having this orientation," he said. "We must be brothers. The problem is lobbying by this orientation, or lobbies of greedy people, political lobbies, Masonic lobbies, so many lobbies. This is the worse problem."

On the role of women in the Church, he said: "We cannot limit the role of women in the Church to altar girls or the president of a charity, there must be more.

"But with regards to the ordination of women, the Church has spoken and says no... That door is closed."

Answering questions about the troubled Vatican bank, he said the institution must become "honest and transparent" and that he would listen to advice on whether it could be reformed or should be shut down altogether.

"I don't know what will become of the bank. Some say it is better that is a bank, others that it should be a charitable fund and others say close it," he said.

'Undisciplined'

Before leaving Brazil, Pope Francis gave a highly unusual one-to-one interview to a Brazilian TV programme.

The interview was shown on TV Globo's high-profile Sunday night documentary programme Fantastico, broadcast not long after the Pope departed for Rome.

The Pope was asked about the moment on his visit when his driver took a wrong turn and his vehicle was surrounded by crowds.

"I don't feel afraid," he answered. "I know that no-one dies before their time.

"I don't want to see these people who have such a great heart from behind a glass box. The two security teams [from the Vatican and Brazil] worked very well. But I know that I am undisciplined in that respect."

Asked about the recent protests by young people on the streets of Brazil, the Pope said: "The young person is essentially a non-conformist, and this is very beautiful.

"It is necessary to listen to young people, give them places to express themselves and to be careful that they aren't manipulated."

Asked about his simple lifestyle and use of a small car, he said it wasn't a good example when a priest had the latest model of a car or a top brand.

"At this moment I believe God is asking us for more simplicity," he added.
article found here

What do you think? Is this a change for the church or just more of the same? Will there be a backlash or wider acceptance?
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Old July 29th, 2013, 09:52 AM
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At least he has enough common sense not to ban them from anything. It's about time we have some kind of leader in the world that isn't 100% against homosexuality and women in higher roles.
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Old July 29th, 2013, 12:21 PM
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Well, keep in mind that he still condemns acting on homosexual desires. He still thinks that's wrong. This information is just benign. Oh, so the catholic church's stance on homosexuality remains the same? Okay.

Last edited by YourNobody; July 29th, 2013 at 03:50 PM.
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Old July 29th, 2013, 02:44 PM
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Well he has one thing right. Gay sex IS sin..sational!


Maybe with whats going on in Russia some people realized its time for them to stop condemning groups of people over personal beliefs, cause what leader would want to be likened to Putin right now? I mean look how much praise the Queen got recently for her support of equality. What he said isn't revolutionary or anything, but progress is progress no matter how minor.
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Old July 29th, 2013, 03:31 PM
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It could be the case, since Catholic Priests cannot engage in any sexual activity, their innate sexual desires have no effect on the position of priesthood. Thus, the Pope doesn't see homosexuality as a disqualifying attribute.

Though, I honestly would like to see a Pope come out in support of priests' ability to marry and engage in sex. The tradition that priests cannot marry was founded upon securing the wealth of the church after the priests' deaths, and thus, the money would not go to a spouse and children. Nowhere in the Bible, explicit or inferred does it state anything about this doctrine, and celibacy was required by the church in the 12th century, up until then, this practice didn't exist. The doctrine is outdated and doesn't do the Church any favors.
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Old July 29th, 2013, 08:05 PM
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Hm. I wonder if he is a reformist, and this is as far as he can go for now within the realm of acceptability among his peers.
I'm not optimistic enough to believe that, but it's an intriguing thought.
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Old July 29th, 2013, 08:16 PM
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He's still quite conservative and old school, but he just has a very diplomatic way of saying things. A good lesson in political science.
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Old July 30th, 2013, 02:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Livewire View Post
He's still quite conservative and old school, but he just has a very diplomatic way of saying things. A good lesson in political science.
Indeed.

What he's said isn't anything new. It hasn't been being gay that's been frowned upon in the Church, it's been when that's taken to intercourse. Same for straight couples. Teaching has been, as least in my lifetime, sex only for purposes of procreation, and sex within marriage only - with the purpose of marriage to raise children within the faith. So.... priests can't get married and they need to be celibate. So, if they're good priests they're not having sex whether they're gay or not - so it makes no difference if they're gay. That's what he's saying... just very nicely. But in either event, the Church has been teaching tolerance for years - he just makes it grander with the washing of the feet and such.

Is it a sin otherwise? Yeah. But, so what? Same for heterosexuals outside of marriage. So, whatever. If you're part of the faith you believe that in the end everyone's sins are forgiven anyway and nearly everyone ends up in heaven. He just recently said that people of other faiths and no faith can enter heaven. So, would be the same for gay people I think.

I think the women having a greater presence in the Church comment he made was the more... actually news news.

Regardless, I like this Pope a lot more than the last one. I like how he presents things that have been true for awhile now but that people don't pay attention to.

...when in doubt, follow him on Twitter. You get a free pass XD
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Old July 31st, 2013, 10:57 PM
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Finally the ridiculous behaviour of the Christian church has someone in power who can actively turn them around for the better.

I just hope we don't have any extremist Christians who get real mad and end up assassinating the Pope in the name of "God".

Quotations were used to indicate their personal perception of God not as a degradation implying lack of existence, thank you.
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Old July 31st, 2013, 11:46 PM
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I support gay marriage because of Neil Patrick Harris BROSPECT!
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Old August 1st, 2013, 02:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plumpyfoof View Post
Finally the ridiculous behaviour of the Christian church has someone in power who can actively turn them around for the better.
There is no Christian Church. Catholicism is only one denomination of the Christianity. And the Pope hasn't said anything new, just articulated it better. But even if he had, it would only change Catholicism not Christianity.
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Old August 1st, 2013, 04:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRIFORCE89 View Post
Is it a sin otherwise? Yeah. But, so what? Same for heterosexuals outside of marriage. So, whatever. If you're part of the faith you believe that in the end everyone's sins are forgiven anyway and nearly everyone ends up in heaven. He just recently said that people of other faiths and no faith can enter heaven. So, would be the same for gay people I think.
I'm pretty sure they have to ask for forgiveness before the sins are forgiven, I think. But anyway I don't see why not, maybe he didn't mention it since homosexuality is frowned upon by just about every faith? idk but I like this Pope, he keeps it pretty down-to-earth while still being a faithful Catholic. I wish all religious people were like this,
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Old August 2nd, 2013, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YourNobody View Post
Well, keep in mind that he still condemns acting on homosexual desires. He still thinks that's wrong. This information is just benign. Oh, so the catholic church's stance on homosexuality remains the same? Okay.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keiran777 View Post
Well he has one thing right. Gay sex IS sin..sational!


Maybe with whats going on in Russia some people realized its time for them to stop condemning groups of people over personal beliefs, cause what leader would want to be likened to Putin right now? I mean look how much praise the Queen got recently for her support of equality. What he said isn't revolutionary or anything, but progress is progress no matter how minor.
You know, if you don't really accept that there are people who think being gay is wrong, then you're also ignorant too. Equality is for both parties to work on. Just because you're in the minority doesn't mean that everything you say is right. Same here. Just because you're gay or support their equality doesn't mean that everything you say is right and all aspects of other's beliefs are wrong.

Stop feeling validated just because you're something. Feel validated because you accept everyone for who they are.

I'm really sick and tired of hearing these people say "omg i'm so accepting b/c i support gay people" and then when you mention Christianity, even off-handedly (like wow the Bible is a cool book!), and they go off on a rant about how Jesus is wrong God is fake and all Christians should look at themselves and how dare you have a different belief than me!

It's saddening to see these supposedly "liberal" and "open-minded" groups of people are actually just like the conservative groups they hate so much. I try to bring up another point of view with them (such as maybe God exists but we don't know how he looks like) and instead of debating it like I expected them to because that's what they're supposed to do based on their description of "liberal" and "open-minded" they denounce me for having a different opinion.

I really am disappointed in these people I just described. Conservative and liberal alike, I dislike anyone that is prejudiced. I dislike anyone who can't take another point of view. I dislike anyone who treats any differing opinions personally. It doesn't matter what your views are, but that you can respect everyone is what matters.

As for the topic, that's all I have to say. This isn't surprising news to me or anybody that's a Christian and such, it's only surprising for "liberals" who are so prejudiced to think that every single religious person thinks that gay people should go to hell.
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Old August 2nd, 2013, 04:33 PM
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You gotta be karate kidding me. Yes, I'm so intolerant and hypocritical for being relieved that the new Pope isn't using his position of power to tell the world that a group of innocent people are demonic scum and pedophiles. *rolls eyes* I think you misunderstood my post.
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