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The American Politics Discussion Thread

Rodriguezjames55

No Jokes #MegaCharizard
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Again, we want evidence for the other two candidates. Whatever Gary says is cool, how did Romney or Obama really say that all marijuana users should be incriminated?

how about the fact that their been more marijuana raids in the obama administration than bush's and republicain always state they are for the war on drugs
 

KingCharizard

C++ Developer Extraordinaire
1,229
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I broke my spleen, was bleeding internally, and would have died. "Oh, just rest it off. You don't need a doctor, you pussy."

I had severe depression, and was seriously considering suicide. "Just go outside and play it off

And mine, was just a minor example. There are people with cancer, with terminal illnesses. they need insurance.

and there is insurance available to you, and anyone else who needs it.. but forcing Americans to purchase insurance if they dont need or want it is just wrong..

Thats the part most people are missing, there is plenty of insurance companies out there right now that offer low cost insurance and normal insurance for those that need to be covered....

And the video of George Carlin, he is right, it doesn't matter.... I've said that in this thread about 4 or more times now, as long as people are spoiled they will continue to be ignorant to the truth.. but now that people are losing things their eyes are starting to be opened, but it wont help, I feel its already too late...
 
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droomph

weeb
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George Carlin is great and all, but his comedy style is to intentionally propogandize things to make it ridiculously funny. Hence, "Criminal Death Duel" and similar tracks.

A more reasonable example would be to show the disporportionate Electoral College. This doesnt represent the people accurately, and should be abolished now that we are in a more interconnected world.
 

Oryx

CoquettishCat
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and there is insurance available to you, and anyone else who needs it.. but forcing Americans to purchase insurance if they dont need or want it is just wrong..

What if he had been just above the poverty level, and unable to afford it because the rates are so high? What if he had had cancer when he was a baby and it had been in remission his entire life since then, but the pre-existing condition kept him from being able to get or afford insurance? Does he just deserve it in that case?
 

Mr. X

It's... kinda effective?
2,391
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17
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and there is insurance available to you, and anyone else who needs it.. but forcing Americans to purchase insurance if they dont need or want it is just wrong..

Thats the part most people are missing, there is plenty of insurance companies out there right now that offer low cost insurance and normal insurance for those that need to be covered....

Everyone will, at some point in their life, need insurance.

And yes, their are companies that provide low cost insurance. However, these are also the companies that (without Obamacare) will drop you for no reason, other then to get out of paying when you get very very sick.

Edit - and don't forget the, sometimes massive, list of preexisting condtions that companies would deny you insurance because of, without Obamacare.

Edit 2 - Some insurance companies even denied people because they had acne in the past, or were currently or previously pregnant.
 
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Zet

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See this is where we come to what's right on a human level. To me, at the heart of things, it's just wrong for a person to have a history of an illness that they no longer have and be unable to get insurance without making massive sacrifices, when they are at no higher risk than anyone else. It's wrong for someone who is ill to age out of their parent's insurance and be unable to get any other insurance because of their illness. And it's wrong for people to have to go without healthcare because insurance is at a rate they can't afford while still surviving, and healthcare costs would drive them into debt.

In my mind, the right of a person not to spend an affordable amount on insurance (note that Obamacare gives coupons to people who are up to 400% of the poverty level to make sure that people who have to make choices between survival and insurance won't have to make that choice) does not trump the right of a person to decent medical care without having to make a choice between survival and medicine.

I don't care what the Constitution says on this. I don't care what dry laws don't account for human sympathy. I care what's right, and that's why, unless there's a viable alternative that is better than Obamacare, I will continue to support it.
Universal healthcare is the greatest thing in the world! But don't take my opinion; I'm just a dirty socialist communist who hates freedom.

The purpose of the Second Amendment is for the people to be able to overthrow the government, and handguns just don't cut it for that task.



We seem to have a disagreement on what a "right" is. I don't believe that people have a right to any goods or services.
So... treason? well it worked before for you guys, but unless you follow Donald Trump there probably won't ever be a reason to overthrow the government. Though there's also all sorts of ammo types for handguns, so you can do some serious damage... to people.


But you have the right to buy guns... isn't that goods/services?


how about the fact that their been more marijuana raids in the obama administration than bush's and republicain always state they are for the war on drugs

After Obama was re-elected, a few states legalized marijuana and same-sex marriage.
 

KingCharizard

C++ Developer Extraordinaire
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Everyone will, at some point in their life, need insurance.

And yes, their are companies that provide low cost insurance. However, these are also the companies that (without Obamacare) will drop you for no reason, other then to get out of paying when you get very very sick.

Am I the only one in this thread aware of medicare? Of Medical Assistance through welfare? If you are poor welfare is there, if you cannot afford insurance welfare is there.. With Obama care you still have to buy insurance...
 

Rodriguezjames55

No Jokes #MegaCharizard
391
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12
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Universal healthcare is the greatest thing in the world! But don't take my opinion; I'm just a dirty socialist communist who hates freedom.


So... treason? well it worked before for you guys, but unless you follow Donald Trump there probably won't ever be a reason to overthrow the government. Though there's also all sorts of ammo types for handguns, so you can do some serious damage... to people.


But you have the right to buy guns... isn't that goods/services?




After Obama was re-elected, a few states legalized marijuana and same-sex marriage.
STATES not obama he has no control over that
 

Oryx

CoquettishCat
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Am I the only one in this thread aware of medicare? Of Medical Assistance through welfare? If you are poor welfare is there, if you cannot afford insurance welfare is there.. With Obama care you still have to buy insurance...

You can have enough money to not be on welfare but not enough to afford insurance. I am in that level; I'm in college and can't get a full-time job so I can't afford insurance of my own, and my mother's insurance goes up so much that she can't afford it if she puts me on it. So I can't afford insurance. The income that my mother and I live off of is just above the poverty level, so no one's paying for our insurance. In Obamacare, when all of the changes roll through, my mother and I will both get help in paying for insurance since we are close to the poverty level.
 

KingCharizard

C++ Developer Extraordinaire
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STATES not obama he has no control over that

Yes on the federal level last i herd marijuana is still illegal... This is old news BTW

You can have enough money to not be on welfare but not enough to afford insurance. I am in that level; I'm in college and can't get a full-time job so I can't afford insurance of my own, and my mother's insurance goes up so much that she can't afford it if she puts me on it. So I can't afford insurance. The income that my mother and I live off of is just above the poverty level, so no one's paying for our insurance. In Obamacare, when all of the changes roll through, my mother and I will both get help in paying for insurance since we are close to the poverty level.

and where is this money coming from? Tax Payers? They should focus more on welfare, and try to fix it. you cannot have welfare and Obama Care because that is yet another thing were stuck paying for, we already have enough debt....
 
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Zet

7,690
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and there is insurance available to you, and anyone else who needs it.. but forcing Americans to purchase insurance if they dont need or want it is just wrong..

Thats the part most people are missing, there is plenty of insurance companies out there right now that offer low cost insurance and normal insurance for those that need to be covered....

And the video of George Carlin, he is right, it doesn't matter.... I've said that in this thread about 4 or more times now, as long as people are spoiled they will continue to be ignorant to the truth.. but now that people are losing things their eyes are starting to be opened, but it wont help, I feel its already too late...
You're right, what were people thinking?! They can just walk off the deadly deadly sickness and die instead of going to see a Doctor. :D


Am I the only one in this thread aware of medicare? Of Medical Assistance through welfare? If you are poor welfare is there, if you cannot afford insurance welfare is there.. With Obama care you still have to buy insurance...
-snip- Toujours provided lovely research in the post below me
 

Oryx

CoquettishCat
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and where is this money coming from? Tax Payers? They should focus more on welfare, and try to fix it. you cannot have welfare and Obama Care because that is yet another thing were stuck paying for, we already have enough debt....

Research is hard you guys

When enacted, health reform is completely paid for and will reduce the deficit by more than one hundred billion dollars in the next ten years.

This is the text directly from the act, that was passed. If this was false, it would not have been passed, it would have been amended. Feel free to read through (under Title IX) and see the individual things they will change to afford it.

Edit: There will always be the people just above welfare that will not be able to afford insurance, no matter what you do to welfare. It's the insurance industry that needs reform. Although I'm sure welfare needs reform as well in ways, it has nothing to do with insurance.
 
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TRIFORCE89

Guide of Darkness
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and where is this money coming from? Tax Payers? They should focus more on welfare, and try to fix it. you cannot have welfare and Obama Care because that is yet another thing were stuck paying for, we already have enough debt....
How are you paying for Obama Care? It isn't universal healthcare. It isn't a public option.

You're buying private insurance. What's the government or your taxes paying for with it?
 

FreakyLocz14

Conservative Patriot
3,498
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But you have the right to buy guns... isn't that goods/services?

We also have always had the right to buy health insurance in this country. A lot of people in this thread think that health insurance should be provided to people as a right. If that is the definition of what a "right" is, where do I get my free gun?
 

droomph

weeb
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Well, you do pay a fine for every year you don't have health insurance, but you should definitely have health insurance, if not to let the majority have what they want.
how about the fact that their been more marijuana raids in the obama administration than bush's and republicain always state they are for the war on drugs

facts, please.

We also have always had the right to buy health insurance in this country. A lot of people in this thread think that health insurance should be provided to people as a right. If that is the definition of what a "right" is, where do I get my free gun?
For the record, you don't get free health insurance. You have to pay for it. But the requirement is for the insurance industry to not gouge people, but people will take advantage of that.

As was said:
The problem with insurance is that forcing people to have insurance is a reaction, not an action. The action to begin with was to force insurance companies to cover people with pre-existing conditions without gouging them every month. Before this, a person who had a medical issue before they could walk may be denied insurance for the rest of their life, and if they find someone who would give it to them, they would be forced to pay exponentially more than another person, whether or not they're even ill anymore, because the insurance companies don't want to take on the liability. The point was to make insurance equal for every person.

But then it causes the problem of people gaming the system. If pre-existing conditions were never taken into consideration with insurance, then no one would ever need to get insurance until they got sick. They could get ill, then start paying for insurance, then drop it once they get better, over and over. This would end in insurance companies tanking because that's not how insurance is supposed to work. So the forcing of insurance is a reaction to allowing people with pre-existing conditions to get insurance, so people won't wait until they're sick to get insurance and drop it once they're well.
 
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droomph

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FreakyLocz14

Conservative Patriot
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For the record, you don't get free health insurance. You have to pay for it. But the requirement is for the insurance industry to not gouge people, but people will take advantage of that.

The problem with our health care system isn't how health insurance is delivered, but the fact that we are an unhealthy society. Americans consume larger amounts of junk food than, and exercise less than, nations that have universal health care. This is why universal health care will not work in the United States. While doctors are in the business of helping us stay healthy, the ultimate responsibility for our health lies with us to lead healthy lifestyles.
 

Oryx

CoquettishCat
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The problem with our health care system isn't how health insurance is delivered, but the fact that we are an unhealthy society. Americans consume larger amounts of junk food than, and exercise less than, nations that have universal health care. This is why universal health care will not work in the United States. While doctors are in the business of helping us stay healthy, the ultimate responsibility for our health lies with us to lead healthy lifestyles.

But don't you believe that we should be free to live whatever lifestyles we want? Isn't that the libertarian way? Besides, England's rate of obesity is near ours and they have universal healthcare.
 
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