New Type: Light

The problem is you all think of the game in the wrong way. You think of the game as a system of battling with other people. You see this system as balanced and fair, and so you see no reason for it to change.

That's fair, but do you really honestly think Nintendo sees it this way? Imagine if they used the "Don't fix what isn't broken" mentality for everything. The Wii certainly wouldn't exist. Brawl would be exactly the same as Melee. Mario Galaxy? That would have never come about. Why add all that 3D stuff when what they had already done was balanced and fair and didn't need to be changed?

The thought behind adding a new type does not have to come from the need to fix something. It should come from the desire to add new and exciting content. I for one do not want Pokemon to just be stale and boring for the rest of the time it exists. Let me ask you all something. You're all so obsessed with the "metagame" and its balance. What do you think about adding new Pokemon? That would certainly change things up wouldn't it? What about new items? New abilities? New moves? Wow, the metagame is completely different now! Are you guys just opposed to all new content in any way whatsoever? If not, then what's the problem with a new type? What makes adding a new type any different than adding new pokemon, items, or moves?

@Raikazu - If that's your mentality, then what about Ice? Ice is the same exact thing as Water, just at 0 degress Celcius or lower. Is there that big a difference between Rock and Ground? What about Ghost and Dark?

Point is, a lot of the types are similar, yes. If you think beyond that though, you can see as I pointed out in the first post (then revised through discussion with Gymnotide) that the Light type would make a lot of sense.

And for the last time, during the Gold and Silver era when it was first made, there was no such thing as the metagame. Yes, there were tournaments. And how many people used Substitute and Baton Pass and CMCune and Tyraniboah back then? No one. No one cared about it like everyone today seems to for some reason.

I like you, YOOM-TAH. You actually think your posts through. I'm not just saying that to sound like I'm mature by "complimenting the opponent while arguing"; I seriously like the way you "discuss" things. =D

Anyway, there's something I still need explaining. You say that adding the light type is the same thing as improving graphics on a game, or improving a new console. But it really isn't.

See, when you improve graphics, you... well, that's just it. You improve them. As in, make it better. When you create a new console, you're basically improving the old one. Maybe there was a glitch in the previous version of the console, or maybe one of the characters head popped off in Super Smash Bros. when you performed a certain move. If so, you would normally improve them by fixing the mistakes. Even if it's not a mistake, the general idea of improving something is to make it more enjoyable.

So what about adding the light type makes playing Pokemon more enjoyable? You say it would make it less stale, but didn't adding Dark and Steel? They got old pretty quickly, didn't they? I just really don't see how adding the light type would improve the game in any way. But I'm not saying there's a reason it shouldn't be added, because there isn't. Like I said before, it's really up to Nintendo to decide whether they're going to add it. Not us. We can discuss it all we'd like, but in the end it's not our decision.

Motsuko Live said:

I like you, YOOM-TAH. You actually think your posts through. I'm not just saying that to sound like I'm mature by "complimenting the opponent while arguing"; I seriously like the way you "discuss" things. =D

Anyway, there's something I still need explaining. You say that adding the light type is the same thing as improving graphics on a game, or improving a new console. But it really isn't.

See, when you improve graphics, you... well, that's just it. You improve them. As in, make it better. When you create a new console, you're basically improving the old one. Maybe there was a glitch in the previous version of the console, or maybe one of the characters head popped off in Super Smash Bros. when you performed a certain move. If so, you would normally improve them by fixing the mistakes. Even if it's not a mistake, the general idea of improving something is to make it more enjoyable.

So what about adding the light type makes playing Pokemon more enjoyable? You say it would make it less stale, but didn't adding Dark and Steel? They got old pretty quickly too, didn't they? I just really don't how adding the light type would improve the game in any way. But I'm not saying there's a reason it shouldn't be added, because there isn't. Like I said before, it's really up to Nintendo to decide whether they're going to add it. Not us. We can discuss it all we'd like, but in the end it's not our decision.

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It sounds to me like you changed your argument. If you want to argue that there's no real reason to add it just because it wouldn't really add much, but there's also no real reason to not add it, I guess that's okay. But it seemed to me that you and others were arguing way more in favor of NOT adding it because it would create imbalance and mess with the metagame. And that argument is so narrow-minded and ridiculous that I actually want to throw up thinking about it.

I think Steel and Dark MAYBE got stale and old, but not really. Even if I truly felt that Steel and Dark adding nothing to the game anymore (other than more balance), I wouldn't go ahead and say I'd rather have them out, because more possibilities typically means more fun. I'm glad they added them, I wouldn't want it any other way.

(Though they really need to add more dark type attacks, namely dark SPECIAL attacks).

Here are my reasons why Light would improve the game:

--Encourages more originality in new pokemon design.
--Opens up a whole new window for certain attacks, as well as making other attacks make more sense in terms of what type they are.
--Can create some interesting type combinations (ex. Light-Electric, like a solar-powered thing, Light-Fighting, some kind of Paladin pokemon).
--Gives Grass what is in MY opinion a much needed strength/immunity.
--Just my personal opinion here, but it's just added content, and therefore it's an improvement. The analogy you said is valid, but I truly believe that adding a new type can not possibly do anything other than make the game better. Maybe that's just me.

No one said ??? = Light.

Electrical Energy =/= Light Energy
If so, then Electric and Fire would be the same.

Caerus said:

Exactly. I brung it up upon myself to say it.

But who doesn't love to see flamethrowers and fire blasts? :<

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Bad reasoning. He shot down your point, as did I, and you say "Ah well everyone loves fire so..."

Again, you pointed out all kinds of similarities between light and electric. But AGAIN, what about Water and Ice? What about Ground and Rock? What about Dark and Ghost? They're all very similar. But the FACT is Light would open up possibilities that even Electric doesn't offer.

As for me not offering other info, it's because I was looking for suggestions and thoughts from other people. If you want, I'll go ahead and think of a list of 10 attacks, 5 offensive and 5 defensive, and post them later.

The only reason I see to implement Light would be as the opposite of Dark. After all, we've got some pretty exciting opposites already (i.e. Water vs. Fire, Psychic vs. Fighting).

I'm surprised no one brought this up yet, which is an interesting point that can have different opinions.

Light type would render Spiritomb and Sableye no longer without weakness.

I personally think that's a good thing but I can see people going different ways on that.

Caerus said:

You do know, I'm not really in the debating mood. If I was, I'd bring out my best points ever, thanks.

Look at what you're doing, all you're doing is attacking other types for the benefit of the Light type. Don't say you're not, because you're questioning the necessity of the Ice type and ground type, even now. Those are your flaws. So let's put your idea into play, shall we?

Ice type is removed. Ground type is removed. Light type is added, the whole metagame is screwed, because god knows how many people use Earthquake and Ice Beam. And a lot of sweepers would suck hard without Earthquake.

Post those attacks, and their effects, and I'll see whether they fit or not. It's not going to matter how much debating is going to be done. Like Motsuko said, it's ultimately up to Nintendo to decide whether they want to add it or not. You want it to be added, but there are others who don't think it's necessary, such as myself and other people in this thread, despite the good points you bring up.

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You really need to read my posts more carefully and think about them before responding.

First of all, I never once said Ice and Ground should be removed and Light should be added. That would be idiotic, though not for the reason you mentioned. I said that if Light ISN'T added for the reason YOU said, then Ice and Ground and Ghost shouldn't exist either. That's all. But they all should exist.

And no one cares about the metagame and who uses Earthquake and Ice Beam. If those were taken away (not saying they should, that would be dumb) people would just find new moves and battle differently. Big deal. That is completely 100% irrelevant.

And of course it's up to Nintendo. Who else would it be up to? I'm not petitioning to add it here, I'm just throwing out a suggestion and getting feedback and other ideas, and responding to them. Not trying to be malicious or anything, just responding.

YOOM-TAH said:

Bad reasoning. He shot down your point, as did I, and you say "Ah well everyone loves fire so..."

Again, you pointed out all kinds of similarities between light and electric. But AGAIN, what about Water and Ice? What about Ground and Rock? What about Dark and Ghost? They're all very similar. But the FACT is Light would open up possibilities that even Electric doesn't offer.

As for me not offering other info, it's because I was looking for suggestions and thoughts from other people. If you want, I'll go ahead and think of a list of 10 attacks, 5 offensive and 5 defensive, and post them later.

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I like doing this type of thing.
I'll get back to you when I get some more details.

There are plenty of ideas that revolve around the literal nature of light:

Refraction / Distortion
Speed of Light
Intensity / Concentration
Rainbows
Prisms
Radiation
The Sun (e.g. Heliosphere, Corona)
Bioluminescence

And more abstract ideas like:

Vision
Knowledge
Purity / Cleansing
ERASER RAIN

~~saa tomerarenai Eraser Rain

YOOM-TAH said:

And no one cares about the metagame and who uses Earthquake and Ice Beam.

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:(
(I'm sure someone out there cares about the metagame, although I agree it would just adapt.)

The phrase "no one cares about..." is a hyperbole. It's meant to emphasize just how small the percentage of pokemon consumers is that actually cares about competitive battling. And that percentage is quite insignificant.

And the statement you bolded is pretty much just completely 100% wrong. I was using hypothetical analysis to debate your point. YOUR point is that Light is unnecessary because there are already other types that are basically the same thing. MY point is that there are already other examples of this in pokemon, and they DO exist, and therefore your point is rendered moot.

And the people who use Swampert, Garchomp, Starmie, etc., were ground and ice to be removed (which obviously they wouldn't) would end up having to ADJUST. BOO HOO.

YOOM-TAH said:

It sounds to me like you changed your argument. If you want to argue that there's no real reason to add it just because it wouldn't really add much, but there's also no real reason to not add it, I guess that's okay. But it seemed to me that you and others were arguing way more in favor of NOT adding it because it would create imbalance and mess with the metagame. And that argument is so narrow-minded and ridiculous that I actually want to throw up thinking about it.

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Actually, I'm fairly sure I wasn't arguing against it simply for the "metagame" reason, seeing as I don't even play the metagame, and have no idea what it's about. And I'm absolutely positive that thinking about it has nothing to do with you vomiting, so that was completely unnecessary. If anything makes me want to throw up, it's how worked up you're getting over this discussion. You say you want to discuss the light type; if you can't do it without insulting other members and their ideas, don't do it at all. Seriously.

Motsuko Live said:

Actually, I'm fairly sure I wasn't arguing against it simply for the "metagame" reason, seeing as I don't even play the metagame, and have no idea what it's about. And I'm absolutely positive that thinking about it has nothing to do with you vomiting, so that was completely unnecessary. If anything makes me want to throw up, it's how worked up you're getting over this discussion. You say you want to discuss the light type; if you can't do it without insulting other members and their ideas, don't do it at all. Seriously.

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You don't make me want to throw up, I didn't say that. It was the idea I described that does that. I'm sorry if you took that as insulting, I didn't intend that. I also mistook you for someone else because some of the posts on the first page happened rather fast.

Again, sorry if I offended you in a way.

As for discussing, yes, that is what I would like to do. However when the discussion doesn't happen because people come to bash the idea of adding a new type for reasons that I see as being wrong and provide evidence for those reasons being wrong, then I am going to get a little worked up.

How about this then? How about we end the argument on whether or not there should be a new type or whether or not Light is a good idea in general, and just discuss its possibilities in and of themselves, should it be added. Then we can all get along. :)

YOOM-TAH said:

You don't make me want to throw up, I didn't say that. It was the idea I described that does that. I'm sorry if you took that as insulting, I didn't intend that. I also mistook you for someone else because some of the posts on the first page happened rather fast.

Again, sorry if I offended you in a way.

As for discussing, yes, that is what I would like to do. However when the discussion doesn't happen because people come to bash the idea of adding a new type for reasons that I see as being wrong and provide evidence for those reasons being wrong, then I am going to get a little worked up.

How about this then? How about we end the argument on whether or not there should be a new type or whether or not Light is a good idea in general, and just discuss its possibilities in and of themselves, should it be added. Then we can all get along. :)

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*AGREED* :D
I do see some pretty interesting possibilities for this Light Type. You're probably the only person to actually put some thought into this discussion before posting it.

NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN

I THINK LIGHT WILL NEVER BE AN ELEMENT it will become to complicated and pokemon has perfected all the element so they are not dominated by one element that was the major downfall with red blue and Yellow i could be wrong but i think they will never make a new element especially light \

PS I DON'T mean to be mean i just think after so long they have fianally perfected all the elemnets and i don't think it should change

hothead said:

I THINK LIGHT WILL NEVER BE AN ELEMENT it will become to complicated and pokemon has perfected all the element so they are not dominated by one element that was the major downfall with red blue and Yellow i could be wrong but i think they will never make a new element especially light \

PS I DON'T mean to be mean i just think after so long they have fianally perfected all the elemnets and i don't think it should change

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It's fine for you to have your opinion. Only thing is, what's to say Light will make it worse than it is? It will change, yes. But who's to say it wouldn't still be completely balanced?

Of course you can speculate either way, but I happen to have faith in Nintendo/GF that if they were to consider adding Light, they'd be able to make it work. I'm sure we can ALL agree on this: If Light or any other new type truly is impossible to implement without worsening the game, they won't do it. But if there is any kind of way, they can and should do it.

Now, tomorrow I will post up my list of moves. I already have several ideas. (Keep in mind they will all be new moves too, nothing like Solarbeam/Flash/Light Screen that would/could change).

I agree with you on one point that if they do make a new elemoent i will staright away think light straight away but i don't think it will happen but like you said we a both entitled to our own opinion and i am not going to make a world war 3 happen over something that if it happens probably will not effect me that much in game play

YOOM-TAH said:

@Raikazu - If that's your mentality, then what about Ice? Ice is the same exact thing as Water, just at 0 degress Celcius or lower. Is there that big a difference between Rock and Ground? What about Ghost and Dark?

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Yes, water at a temperature of 60 degrees Fahrenheit can also freeze the opponent. Fish can also survive on a dry tundra with icy cold blizzards. Hurling a block of ice at a flaming house can stop the fire from growing bigger. [/sarcasm]

And wasn't Dark already explained, like, a few posts ago?

Yes, and I can plug my DS into a light bulb and have it charge the same way as plugging it into the electrical outlet. Instead of putting batteries in the back of my remotes, I just shine a flashlight on them. And you know all those electrical wires running through cities and powering homes? That's just light from the sun in those wires! Oh, and plants. We all know how they use light for food, but did you know you can hook up a car battery to them and they can still undergo photosynthesis? [/sarcasm]

With all this back-n'-forth about the Light-type, I propose another question: What if Nintendo actually DID introduce it and be in the type chart as Yoom-Tah indicated? How would we react?

(A poll taken awhile ago on Serebii stated that at least 65% of users there wanted a Light type to begin with)