Coming Out

Alexander Nicholi · Apr 5, 2014

I decided to go ahead and give a shot at refuting a few of the points made in this thread, in addition to some of the things I mentioned in my first post.

Aeroblast said:
I don't see why Ellen Page coming out was such a news, especially since millions of gays and lesbians go through the same process. The very concept of "outing" that even exists today and is something that a lot of gays and lesbians face still highlights that we still have a long way to go.

I think that a celebrity's business is just that: tabloid celeb TV drama ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ that's designed to give us a sense of place in society (I don't care for it if you can gather that much).

stp said:
This. I don't particularly think coming out that you're gay or lesbian should be so highly sought after in terms of learning that someone's homosexual. Until coming out that you're gay or lesbian is just the same as "coming out" that you're straight, no significant progress will be made.

This is why I didn't really understand why it was such huge news that Michael Sam (college football player, expected to be drafted in 2014, came out as gay in an interview) announced that he was gay. I don't think it should matter and I don't really see the point of announcing it to the world. I understand that it's meant to gain further acceptance of the LGBT community, but society should be progressing to the "no one has to come out" mentality instead of the "gays and lesbians should come out but it shouldn't be a big deal" mentality.

When does all this just boil down into a bunch of crap somebody made up? The simple-minded are too short-sighted to see the big picture of where this problem is arising. We shouldn't be focusing our efforts particularly on minorities or non-minorities; that allows for the table to be simply flipped the other direction instead of leveled like it should be. Think of these things we've made up (minorities, sexuality, etc) as a bunch of weights that sit on the pedestal of mankind. Instead of wasting time fooling around with these arbitrary weights that serve no purpose other than to divide us, frantically trying to get them to sit right (which they never will), here's a thought: Take them off the table! Forget "minorities" or "gays" or whathaveyou even existed, because in the end it's all in our heads, and its holding us down. All we are are humans, and if we as a species can bring up the intestinal fortitude to see us as all one and the same like we are, we'll be able to fly past this trivial nonsense like it wasn't even a problem to begin with.

Keiran said:
Celebrities coming out is a huge deal currently for numerous reasons - and it will ALWAYS be a big deal because it will forever remain important that queer youth feel represented in all aspects of media.

As I said to Seattle, celebrities are simply what they are: media puppets for our entertainment. A "popular individual" coming out as gay is just as important to me as that same person getting kicked off a TV show, or getting incarcerated – which is to say it is of zero importance to me. Nowadays they're meat puppets, and I hold little if any regard to such a legacy.

Moogles said:

These statistics further sustain the very problem we're fighting (see my block above).

Moogles said:
let's say it all together

Visibility is a powerful tool against homophobia

Visibility is a powerful tool against homophobia

Visibility is a powerful tool against homophobia

Visibility is a powerful tool against homophobia

Visibility is a powerful tool against homophobia

Visibility is a powerful tool against homophobia

The fact that it's straight people who are saying "why should we care sexuality is a non-issue" is actually incredibly telling. How about you guys use some critical thinking for once.

First, I find it rather annoying that you go through such lengths to clog up your post with nonsensical chanting. Aside from that, I think the thing you're itching at and misunderstanding the majority of people in this thread who argue that sexuality is a non-issue, since it seems you have the false notion you gathered that they think it should just be ignored; this is not the case. Rather, as I explained in my first big block of text, destroy the useless categorization of humans that does nothing but divide us (not to mention it's impossible to accurately categorize all facets of human existence anyway), and look at someone who is gay as simply being in a different state of being than a straight person. It is problematic that humans wish to categorize and rank individuals out of arbitrary numbers and words, isn't it?

Moogles said:
On another note I find these jokes insanely disrespectful. Someone just took the time to do a huge leap forward with courage and then people go "aww now I can't date them aren't I funny lol". No, you're not. The rest of your post is completely incomprehensible.

I'm honestly starting to wonder if people are reading my posts. Visibility is a powerful tool against homophobia.

Um okay

Moogles said:
Um whether parents support their children actually has a huge impact on them and I think it's close-minded not to say that? If kids are going to be kicked out of their house/forced to be felt like they're completely different/said they're "not normal" by their parents then it in turns becomes their problem. It's a personal decision and I don't think anybody (gay or straight) really has any right to tell who they should come out to or not.

I wanted to comment on this as I can speak from experience with bigoted parents. In all honesty, whether they're your parent, sibling, cousin, aunt/uncle, friend down the street, your local mayor, or the guy that shined your shoes last week on the street corner, you are going to have idiots that don't think rationally in your life. Period. The only real difference between those morons being your parent(s) is the fact that they hold a power grip on your entire existence and future, to which I will concede a point that parental acceptance is important during childhood merely because of this factor of control and responsibility they grasp.

I think I'm content with what I've said here.

professor plum · Apr 5, 2014

Ideally, no, we wouldn't have to come out. Labels wouldn't matter - and they shouldn't.

But, this is the real world where people die for coming out of the closet. In some countries, it's an offense by death. Heck, in parts of the USA, it's akin to social suicide. So, why wouldn't those who can do it without being chastised for attention-laundering?

Why shouldn't they come out and let people know it's okay to feel this way?
It's like Moogles said, 'Visibility is a powerful tool against homophobia'. You're letting people know it's okay. You're letting people know it's not an abnormality. You're letting people know that they're not abnormal.

And that's fine by me.

Keiran · Apr 5, 2014

Alex said:
snip

Categorization of humans and labels can't be that useless considering you're conversing with other people on a forum that exists for the purpose of connecting people that identify as a fan of Pokémon.

Issues that other people deal with aren't trivial simply because they're not important to you.

Star-Lord · Apr 5, 2014

Alex said:
These statistics further sustain the very problem we're fighting (see my block above).

If you're honestly going to sit here and tell me that if a gay athlete or something coming out isn't a huge deal in a zone that is riddled with casual homophobia then I Don't Know What To Tell You. Famous people coming out a gay is a huge deal because there are not many people in the limelight who are open about it. It brings media attention. return to I Don't Know What To Tell You if you do not understand this.

First, I find it rather annoying that you go through such lengths to clog up your post with nonsensical chanting.

I don't care.

Aside from that, I think the thing you're itching at and misunderstanding the majority of people in this thread who argue that sexuality is a non-issue, since it seems you have the false notion you gathered that they think it should just be ignored; this is not the case. Rather, as I explained in my first big block of text, destroy the useless categorization of humans that does nothing but divide us (not to mention it's impossible to accurately categorize all facets of human existence anyway), and look at someone who is gay as simply being in a different state of being than a straight person. It is problematic that humans wish to categorize and rank individuals out of arbitrary numbers and words, isn't it?

"Useless categorization" We are all different for very good reason and we should be known as such in both historical and sociological contexts. I refuse to entertain this any longer.

I wanted to comment on this as I can speak from experience with bigoted parents. In all honesty, whether they're your parent, sibling, cousin, aunt/uncle, friend down the street, your local mayor, or the guy that shined your shoes last week on the street corner, you are going to have idiots that don't think rationally in your life. Period. The only real difference between those morons being your parent(s) is the fact that they hold a power grip on your entire existence and future, to which I will concede a point that parental acceptance is important during childhood merely because of this factor of control and responsibility they grasp.

Ok cool so every gay kid is going to react to his parents just like you and will be rational in thought. It's not like older people have parental issues or anything ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

Alexander Nicholi · Apr 5, 2014

Keiran said:
Categorization of humans and labels can't be that useless considering you're conversing with other people on a forum that exists for the purpose of connecting people that identify as a fan of Pokémon.

What I'm referring to is the categorization and marking of humans as an effort to justify wrongdoings; this (more often than not) is what sexuality is misused for by the seekers of turmoil.

Keiran said:
Issues that other people deal with aren't trivial simply because they're not important to you.

Look at it this way, then: I care about as much towards a celebrity coming out as I do a kid down the street. It's nice and all that he/she's finally done it, but I'm not going to give someone special treatment over it because some fat old rich white man decided to stick a wad of cash up their ass.

Moogles said:
Alex said:

These statistics further sustain the very problem we're fighting (see my block above).

Click to expand...

If you're honestly going to sit here and tell me that if a gay athlete or something coming out isn't a huge deal in a zone that is riddled with casual homophobia then I Don't Know What To Tell You. Famous people coming out a gay is a huge deal because there are not many people in the limelight who are open about it. It brings media attention. return to I Don't Know What To Tell You if you do not understand this.

Alex said:

First, I find it rather annoying that you go through such lengths to clog up your post with nonsensical chanting.

Click to expand...

I don't care.

Alex said:

Aside from that, I think the thing you're itching at and misunderstanding the majority of people in this thread who argue that sexuality is a non-issue, since it seems you have the false notion you gathered that they think it should just be ignored; this is not the case. Rather, as I explained in my first big block of text, destroy the useless categorization of humans that does nothing but divide us (not to mention it's impossible to accurately categorize all facets of human existence anyway), and look at someone who is gay as simply being in a different state of being than a straight person. It is problematic that humans wish to categorize and rank individuals out of arbitrary numbers and words, isn't it?

Click to expand...

"Useless categorization" We are all different for very good reason and we should be known as such in both historical and sociological contexts. I refuse to entertain this any longer.

Alex said:

I wanted to comment on this as I can speak from experience with bigoted parents. In all honesty, whether they're your parent, sibling, cousin, aunt/uncle, friend down the street, your local mayor, or the guy that shined your shoes last week on the street corner, you are going to have idiots that don't think rationally in your life. Period. The only real difference between those morons being your parent(s) is the fact that they hold a power grip on your entire existence and future, to which I will concede a point that parental acceptance is important during childhood merely because of this factor of control and responsibility they grasp.

Click to expand...

Ok cool so every gay kid is going to react to his parents just like you and will be rational in thought. It's not like older people have parental issues or anything ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

It appears that you have completely shut yourself off from any line of logic or reason, and I am going to do no further to convince you of anything.

By the way,

Ok cool so every gay kid is going to react to his parents just like you and will be rational in thought. It's not like older people have parental issues or anything ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

I'm bisexual, not just gay. Can't even get that straight in your rant, can you, Mr. Man?

Taemin · Apr 5, 2014

Alex said:
As I said to Seattle, celebrities are simply what they are: media puppets for our entertainment. A "popular individual" coming out as gay is just as important to me as that same person getting kicked off a TV show, or getting incarcerated – which is to say it is of zero importance to me. Nowadays they're meat puppets, and I hold little if any regard to such a legacy.

Okay, but you're not the entire population of America. So unfortunately, and fortunately for a lot of people, celebrities coming out is a big deal. It shouldn't have to be, but sadly we live in a world where if you come out as gay some people's reaction would be to want to shoot you in the head, or stick you in a concentration camp. So for someone whose got cameras in their face, and paparazzi following them around to put that sorta label on themselves.. is actually a pretty brave thing to do, and I think they do so with the hope that it will inspire others to think that it's okay to tell people what you feel or how you are. They risk attacks, and hates, but do actually send a good message.

Alexander Nicholi · Apr 5, 2014

Yuri Lowell said:
Okay, but you're not the entire population of America. So unfortunately, and fortunately for a lot of people, celebrities coming out is a big deal. It shouldn't have to be, but sadly we live in a world where if you come out as gay some people's reaction would be to want to shoot you in the head, or stick you in a concentration camp. So for someone whose got cameras in their face, and paparazzi following them around to put that sorta label on themselves.. is actually a pretty brave thing to do, and I think they do so with the hope that it will inspire others to think that it's okay to tell people what you feel or how you are. They risk attacks, and hates, but do actually send a good message.

I think you took assumption of the implied magnitude of my statement. If you didn't get that, basically I'm saying my opinion is my own; you're right, I'm not the entire population of the US. Should I be? I think balance is good in any situation.

Star-Lord · Apr 5, 2014

Alex said:
It appears that you have completely shut yourself off from any line of logic or reason, and I am going to do no further to convince you of anything.

Ok I could literally say the same about you here so ,,|,,

I'm bisexual, not just gay. Can't even get that straight in your rant, can you, Mr. Man?

That seems a little unfair to me. I don't believe in your post you indicated that you were bisexual (If you did feel free to shut me down because obviously I can't read) and then calling me Mr. Man like??? dude I don't get what your damage is but ok...

Briar · Apr 6, 2014

let's first clarify that when we use "coming out," we are referring to coming clean about something regarding ourselves that we perceive as serious or "heavy" issues, this perception as fed by how we also perceive the impact this information about ourselves has on how people/institutions will treat us, hence the need to "come out" in the first place.
i do believe that one will have to come out of the closet, eventually. one can only police one's language so long, after all, e.g. in the case of sexuality, it gets tiring having to pretend that you like a person of a certain sex you're not even attracted to, or change the sex of the person you like when you're talking about him/her to a friend. to continually police one's behaviour is mentally and emotionally taxing, and sooner or later, one will have to, at the very least, "come out" to a trusted few.

also...

Alex said:
I decided to go ahead and give a shot at refuting a few of the points made in this thread, in addition to some of the things I mentioned in my first post.

I think that a celebrity's business is just that: tabloid celeb TV drama ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ that's designed to give us a sense of place in society (I don't care for it if you can gather that much).

When does all this just boil down into a bunch of crap somebody made up? The simple-minded are too short-sighted to see the big picture of where this problem is arising. We shouldn't be focusing our efforts particularly on minorities or non-minorities; that allows for the table to be simply flipped the other direction instead of leveled like it should be. Think of these things we've made up (minorities, sexuality, etc) as a bunch of weights that sit on the pedestal of mankind. Instead of wasting time fooling around with these arbitrary weights that serve no purpose other than to divide us, frantically trying to get them to sit right (which they never will), here's a thought: Take them off the table! Forget "minorities" or "gays" or whathaveyou even existed, because in the end it's all in our heads, and its holding us down. All we are are humans, and if we as a species can bring up the intestinal fortitude to see us as all one and the same like we are, we'll be able to fly past this trivial nonsense like it wasn't even a problem to begin with.

As I said to Seattle, celebrities are simply what they are: media puppets for our entertainment. A "popular individual" coming out as gay is just as important to me as that same person getting kicked off a TV show, or getting incarcerated – which is to say it is of zero importance to me. Nowadays they're meat puppets, and I hold little if any regard to such a legacy.

These statistics further sustain the very problem we're fighting (see my block above).

First, I find it rather annoying that you go through such lengths to clog up your post with nonsensical chanting. Aside from that, I think the thing you're itching at and misunderstanding the majority of people in this thread who argue that sexuality is a non-issue, since it seems you have the false notion you gathered that they think it should just be ignored; this is not the case. Rather, as I explained in my first big block of text, destroy the useless categorization of humans that does nothing but divide us (not to mention it's impossible to accurately categorize all facets of human existence anyway), and look at someone who is gay as simply being in a different state of being than a straight person. It is problematic that humans wish to categorize and rank individuals out of arbitrary numbers and words, isn't it?

Um okay

I wanted to comment on this as I can speak from experience with bigoted parents. In all honesty, whether they're your parent, sibling, cousin, aunt/uncle, friend down the street, your local mayor, or the guy that shined your shoes last week on the street corner, you are going to have idiots that don't think rationally in your life. Period. The only real difference between those morons being your parent(s) is the fact that they hold a power grip on your entire existence and future, to which I will concede a point that parental acceptance is important during childhood merely because of this factor of control and responsibility they grasp.

I think I'm content with what I've said here.

while it's true that we should attack the very core of the problem in the first place (like you said, the categorisation of individuals), it assumes that we are working in a vacuum and ignores a materialist analysis of the problem -- in short, we are working within a system that has imposed social, legal, and cultural boundaries and consequences on individuals and/or groups of individuals not fitting the norm of the "default" individual. making sexuality a non-issue in a personal setting is okay, of course, but that is difficult to carry over to a larger social context, where "being a non-issue" can transform into "ignoring the historical and social context of being part of the LGBT."
and this is not merely a question of who does or does not deviate, but also power relations between those who deviate and those who don't. which is why, as Moogles said, visibility is important: you are bringing into the arena figures who are undoubtedly "powerful" (in terms of social and economic influence) and having them declare themselves as part of a minority, "non-powerful" group brings power, or at the very least, a feeling of power to individuals of the minority group, which is another reason why representation of *any* minority group within the public sphere is important.

to summarise, yes, the end goal is to remove these categorisations, which are the sources of oppression and division in the first place, but that doesn't mean one should act as those categorisations haven't shaped the reality and history of minority groups; one should maintain the delicate balance between removing the said cateogrisations, and working within the system to achieve the aforementioned end goal.

Grey Wind · Apr 6, 2014

Alex said:
The other day (last Thursday, since it was PT), all of us men were changing for PT in the restroom outside the pod. There were a few upper-level cadets (Peterson, Nixon, Minor and I), and a few other first-year guys. As I was taking off my pants Peterson (a platoon leader) looked at me, and asked me if I got a spray-tan. I replied yes, and he said "that's kind of gay." I look at him expectantly and say "but I'm bi!", and he just backed away a step or two. Nixon started cracking up and Minor just looked at me with a goofy look on his Scandinavian face, and Peterson finally commented "Well now I know that." As we left Nixon looked at me with a grin and said "You told him, Rose." So yes, I kind of like doing what Andy did. :P

This reads like an Enid Blyton novel or something.

Alex said:
When does all this just boil down into a bunch of crap somebody made up? The simple-minded are too short-sighted to see the big picture of where this problem is arising. We shouldn't be focusing our efforts particularly on minorities or non-minorities; that allows for the table to be simply flipped the other direction instead of leveled like it should be. Think of these things we've made up (minorities, sexuality, etc) as a bunch of weights that sit on the pedestal of mankind. Instead of wasting time fooling around with these arbitrary weights that serve no purpose other than to divide us, frantically trying to get them to sit right (which they never will), here's a thought: Take them off the table! Forget "minorities" or "gays" or whathaveyou even existed, because in the end it's all in our heads, and its holding us down. All we are are humans, and if we as a species can bring up the intestinal fortitude to see us as all one and the same like we are, we'll be able to fly past this trivial nonsense like it wasn't even a problem to begin with.

Ok so I'm really confused as to where you're getting the notion that minorities are "made up". Like, what does that mean. Your vision of a perfect world where people aren't categorised or whatever is lovely and all, but I think it's kind of ignorant for you to say that we should just stop focusing on minorities to try and make things equal. When such a huge portion of the world is homophobic and when gay people face such struggles every day of their lives, trying to spread some "ignore the problems, everything will work out if we just stop acknowledging minorities" is dumb and won't work.

Look at it this way, then: I care about as much towards a celebrity coming out as I do a kid down the street. It's nice and all that he/she's finally done it, but I'm not going to give someone special treatment over it because some fat old rich white man decided to stick a wad of cash up their ass.

???

What are you even trying to imply here? Again, I think you're pretty naive and ignorant of so many problems. Being able to see someone in the public eye be open about who they are is incredibly uplifting and gives a huge sense of bravery to those who are struggling with their own coming out. It'd be great if it was a total non-issue, but for now, it's not, and whether you like it or not a celebrity (especially someone like Michael Sam or Frank Ocean who are apart of communities with a large amount of homophobia) is a huge deal for a lot of people. I think you need to put a touch of realism in your tea, dude.

Alexander Nicholi · Apr 6, 2014

Valoo said:
This reads like an Enid Blyton novel or something.

Okay.

Valoo said:
Ok so I'm really confused as to where you're getting the notion that minorities are "made up". Like, what does that mean. Your vision of a perfect world where people aren't categorised or whatever is lovely and all, but I think it's kind of ignorant for you to say that we should just stop focusing on minorities to try and make things equal. When such a huge portion of the world is homophobic and when gay people face such struggles every day of their lives, trying to spread some "ignore the problems, everything will work out if we just stop acknowledging minorities" is dumb and won't work.

I never said ignore the problems. I was alluding to disregarding the fuel of the flame as opposed to the flame itself, if that makes any sense. I don't think you're understanding where I'm coming from on that (it seems to have went over your head), and "ignoring minorities" is such an infinitesimally small brick in the scheme of what I was getting at; of course it can't function on it's own, and I never said it would.

Valoo said:
What are you even trying to imply here? Again, I think you're pretty naive and ignorant of so many problems. Being able to see someone in the public eye be open about who they are is incredibly uplifting and gives a huge sense of bravery to those who are struggling with their own coming out. It'd be great if it was a total non-issue, but for now, it's not, and whether you like it or not a celebrity (especially someone like Michael Sam or Frank Ocean who are apart of communities with a large amount of homophobia) is a huge deal for a lot of people. I think you need to put a touch of realism in your tea, dude.

Again, what I'm getting at is to stop regarding the placement and groupings as of any value. Why? It kills two birds with one stone, exposing the bigots on the matter as full of ♥♥♥♥, and destroying any need to "fight" it in the first place. From what I can tell you think we should fight fire with fire; I say we just stop playing with it altogether.

King Kū · Apr 6, 2014

In regards to sexuality I feel this photo re-blogged by George Takei is extremely relevant and speaks volumes. Very thought-provoking.

Alexander Nicholi · Apr 6, 2014

King Kū said:
In regards to sexuality I feel this photo re-blogged by George Takei is extremely relevant and speaks volumes. Very thought-provoking.

This picture is basically saying "how would you like it if it was a crime to be straight?" "What if the tables were flipped?"

A sarcastic mockery of homophobia is a rather sad pitch against it, since it's getting down on their level rather than rising above. Some thoughts that this provokes in me is that mankind has not fully reached the point when it becomes a non-issue, and albeit some are farther than others (with the aggressors and defenders of sexuality), we are all still stuck in the paradigm that it even matters.

I am told that it is not realistic to expect mankind to move past sexuality as of being relevant among anyone but lovers, but I will say that until we do we will be stuck in a cycle of bickering that will get us nowhere. Then again, history has shown that if you give us a couple centuries we'll get our heads screwed on straight, so I don't think it won't be happening.

I also find it ironic that my image of perfection is deemed unrealistic and pointless, but when an image with a bunch of teenagers holding up posters mocking homophobic picketers it's considered to "speak volumes" and is held as very "provocative of thought". Where's the logic in that?

Keiran · Apr 6, 2014

Stooping to the level of homophobes would be to literally harass them in many aspects of their lives. The picture is just turning some argument points homophobes commonly use against them. If it makes you angry, it's effective! They're just giving some perspective on why homophobic arguments are ridiculous. Sometimes taking a few steps in the other persons shoes is the best way to realize you're wrong.

Alexander Nicholi · Apr 6, 2014

Keiran said:
Stooping to the level of homophobes would be to literally harass them in many aspects of their lives.

Why should we do that? It doesn't make us look any better or higher than them (in fact it does the opposite). There should be a more well-structured way to argue against it, shouldn't there?

Keiran said:
If it makes you angry, it's effective!

It doesn't really make me angry; rather, I just see it as a rather weak argument. In my opinion I think there are far more effective ways of combating such ignorance and idiocy.

Keiran said:
Sometimes taking a few steps in the other persons shoes is the best way to realize you're wrong.

That's only when it's given that the bigot is open to reason, and how common is that?

Another thought occurred in my head:

Valoo said:
Ok so I'm really confused

Valoo said:
but I think it's kind of ignorant for you

Valoo said:
???

Valoo said:
What are you even trying to imply here?

Valoo said:
Again, I think you're pretty naive and ignorant of so many problems

It has become apparent to me that (as I mentioned before) you don't understand the things I'm talking about. Maybe you should give a shot at openly considering what I'm saying before mindlessly labeling me as ignorant and naive, eh? You yourself admitted you're confused on my explanations; I'd be more than happy to clarify some things less complexly if you'd like.

Corrin · Apr 6, 2014

He's not saying we should do that, he's saying that the image isn't "stooping to the level of homophobes".

And no, I don't think I owe it to anyone to come out, especially in today's society. If I feel comfortable around you, I will, but otherwise I keep quiet. It's pretty sad that one has to but coming out is still a huge risk.

Azonic · Apr 6, 2014

I think coming out is outdated, at least in my society. I don't like how coming out is looked at as such a big deal, like its some sort of enormous announcement or something. It's not a big deal and shouldn't be treated as such.

If anyone knows the model Cara Delevingne, I like how she "came out" without even actually coming out. She just started dating a girl like it was nothing even when the media went crazy around her. There was a lot of publicity around it, but she didn't even really react to it at all because it isn't supposed to be a big deal and that's how it should be.

Star-Lord · Apr 6, 2014

Azonic said:
I think coming out is outdated, at least in my society. I don't like how coming out is looked at as such a big deal, like its some sort of enormous announcement or something. It's not a big deal and shouldn't be treated as such.

If anyone knows the model Cara Delevingne, I like how she "came out" without even actually coming out. She just started dating a girl like it was nothing even when the media went crazy around her. There was a lot of publicity around it, but she didn't even really react to it at all because it isn't supposed to be a big deal and that's how it should be.

I don't want to say it's outdated, but I understand why people would rather it be the later case rather than people make a "big deal". At the same time though while it's nice to have casual acceptance I feel that there's something beneficial with high public coming out as well? What's the harm in having gay people who are still confused see people who can be positive role models come out of the closet?

Alex said:
It has become apparent to me that (as I mentioned before) you don't understand the things I'm talking about. Maybe you should give a shot at openly considering what I'm saying before mindlessly labeling me as ignorant and naive, eh? You yourself admitted you're confused on my explanations; I'd be more than happy to clarify some things less complexly if you'd like.

duuuuude

when you have me of all people telling you to take a step back and not to be an ass you know you've screwed up.

Alexander Nicholi · Apr 6, 2014

Moogles said:
duuuuude

when you have me of all people telling you to take a step back and not to be an ass you know you've screwed up.

Rather than resorting to petty insults and name calling, why don't we discuss the pros and cons of our arguments rather than the people who are making them?

To recap, I want to say that, albeit as farfetched as it may seem, a truly logical and intelligent society would look at a gay or straight person no better or worse than the other (this is obviously not the case). In order to reach that, we must first look at ourselves and the manner in which we address and troubleshoot said problems. In my honest opinion, I believe that the way we are dealing with homophobia is not as effective as it could be, and I wanted to suggest an alternate way of working on these issues. What I proposed in earlier posts is that instead of attacking homophobia directly and combating it on its level, we instead rise above it and help ourselves realize that someone who is gay is not arbitrarily better or worse than someone who is straight, and also ignoring anyone who does not see it as such. I'm suggesting that we ignore our enemies than fight them, simply speaking.

Star-Lord · Apr 6, 2014

Alex said:
Rather than resorting to petty insults and name calling, why don't we discuss the pros and cons of our arguments rather than the people who are making them?

holy ♥♥♥♥ i'm laughing so hard irl man u think u got me by calling me out on ad hominem dang son. I have better things to do with my time then to try and pierce someone's insanely thick ego. Like I said, I have a big ego. When I call you out on being an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ you need to self-evaluate. The reason people are "confused" about what you're saying? Because it makes no bloody sense. It's not because people aren't smart enough or don't want to use logic to try and decipher it or nothing - because it's just dumb. It is dumb. Normal people think what you're saying is dumb. Yeah, I mean normal because that is how pedantic and stupid your worldviews on this topic is. Stay wrapped up in your delusional little bubble. Good luck daaaaaaahling.

Coming Out

More options

Alexander Nicholi

what do you know about computing?

professor plum

Keiran

[b]Rock Solid[/b]

Star-Lord

withdrawl .

Alexander Nicholi

what do you know about computing?

Taemin

move.

Alexander Nicholi

what do you know about computing?

Star-Lord

withdrawl .

Briar

how do you make coffee sexy?

Grey Wind

Alexander Nicholi

what do you know about computing?

King Kū

Outer-space is the limit

Alexander Nicholi

what do you know about computing?

Keiran

[b]Rock Solid[/b]

Alexander Nicholi

what do you know about computing?

Corrin

Azonic

hello friends

Star-Lord

withdrawl .

Alexander Nicholi

what do you know about computing?

Star-Lord

withdrawl .