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  #476    
Old October 24th, 2014, 12:54 PM
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I hope you know that my comparing your plot to Cardcator Sakura is actually a good thing.
Tarot foreshadowing is always great, and coming up with your own suits puts a good spin on it. That way you already bypass the common problem that writers run into when they use that kind of symbolism (i.e. not knowing what the cards actually mean).
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Originally Posted by Zeria View Post
The problem is I'm not sure HOW that would fit into the story...perhaps one Imperial Candidate could try and prove him or herself worthy by seeking to prove they were a Master of the Pokemon that the Empire is built up on, but that seems a little...forced. But it's something to consider...
Well, it wouldn't have to be forced. The Imperial Canidate wouldn't have to be on the equivalent of a pokemon journey. He/she could actually want to spark a revolution or genocide (think Lysandre or Ghetsis). In these fantasy settings, people are going to be vying for power, right? So the protagonist, or one of the protagonists, could actually be a villain who wants to kill the competition, as it were. Or alternately, this villain might not be the protagonist, but could be one step ahead of the hero, and the hero goes off to try and stop the villain and ends up challenging the same people the villain challenged. That way the hero would have a clearer motivation, especially if he or she is the chosen one or something.
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  #477    
Old October 24th, 2014, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaDF View Post
I hope you know that my comparing your plot to Cardcator Sakura is actually a good thing.
Tarot foreshadowing is always great, and coming up with your own suits puts a good spin on it. That way you already bypass the common problem that writers run into when they use that kind of symbolism (i.e. not knowing what the cards actually mean).
I'd take it as a good thing regardless - I grew up with that show~
That was my thinking; the comparison is more to illustrate the point than anything else. Since cards are already used to seal the Pokemon, having another set without Pokemon in them to divine the state of the world is fairly logical. I'd prefer to avoid too many real-world comparisons as well, which is why I wouldn't just assign random Pokemon to tarot cards. The suits I have in mind also allow for a more direct integration of the characters into it. Cards are representative of characters, rather than the other way around. I was going to use the deck primarily with the Acolyte character - her doing a reading and finding she was the Queen of Truth (Truth being one of the suits) would prompt her to freak out and set her into a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts. In running from your destiny you often run towards it, and all that. xD

...plus I have no real knowledge of tarot cards. A better comparison for the idea would be to the Deck of Dragons used in the Malazan Book of the Fallen, really, but I'm willing to bet most people haven't read those books. xD;

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Originally Posted by ShivaDF View Post
Well, it wouldn't have to be forced. The Imperial Canidate wouldn't have to be on the equivalent of a pokemon journey. He/she could actually want to spark a revolution or genocide (think Lysandre or Ghetsis). In these fantasy settings, people are going to be vying for power, right? So the protagonist, or one of the protagonists, could actually be a villain who wants to kill the competition, as it were. Or alternately, this villain might not be the protagonist, but could be one step ahead of the hero, and the hero goes off to try and stop the villain and ends up challenging the same people the villain challenged. That way the hero would have a clearer motivation, especially if he or she is the chosen one or something.
Well, I meant forced as in "I'm including it for the sake of including it" not "including it would require a considerable re-write" as it wouldn't - the journey part of it wouldn't require a great deal of travelling, a capturing Pokemon requires "shifting" into their dimension. I'm still working on the mechanics of that, but you'd wind up back in the same place you started at once you returned to the human world. The scope of the world wouldn't be too large to begin with - set in the capital mostly, with a little travelling from others; the world I'd build up in subsequent stories or as I went and found the need to expand - but I wouldn't need to frantically come up with new places for a certain character just because they were moving about.

You make some good points, although I wouldn't be dealing too much in heroes and villains - just people with different motivations. Right and wrong are perspectives, and I'd leave those up to the reader. Everyone wants the same thing: power. Whether or not what they do with that power, or how they go about getting it, is right or wrong, I'd leave up to you to decide. An Imperial Family member out on a journey would be a protagonist, and they'd probably be more virtuous than their siblings, who are just killing off the competition, but...they're fighting to preserve an Empire that was built on the backs of slaves, ruled through terror, and cares little for the common people. Does that make them virtuous? Up to you. Although the motivations for this character could be somewhat similar to Ghetsis in particular...there is the possibility the barbarian with Zekrom could find himself challenging these same people, as well; it depends on where I ultimately decide to take him.

I would definitely be playing the "hero becomes a villain" angle in perspectives, though - I love that angle. Someone you root for could do something you hate them for...and getting attached to anyone would be a bad idea. Nobody is immune to sudden death for the sake of the plot. xD
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  #478    
Old October 24th, 2014, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeria View Post
I'd take it as a good thing regardless - I grew up with that show~
That was my thinking; the comparison is more to illustrate the point than anything else. Since cards are already used to seal the Pokemon, having another set without Pokemon in them to divine the state of the world is fairly logical. I'd prefer to avoid too many real-world comparisons as well, which is why I wouldn't just assign random Pokemon to tarot cards. The suits I have in mind also allow for a more direct integration of the characters into it. Cards are representative of characters, rather than the other way around. I was going to use the deck primarily with the Acolyte character - her doing a reading and finding she was the Queen of Truth (Truth being one of the suits) would prompt her to freak out and set her into a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts. In running from your destiny you often run towards it, and all that. xD

...plus I have no real knowledge of tarot cards. A better comparison for the idea would be to the Deck of Dragons used in the Malazan Book of the Fallen, really, but I'm willing to bet most people haven't read those books. xD;
That makes sense to me. Can humans be sealed into cards or object as well, then? Or is there some sort of distinct barrier between human and pokemon?
Quote:
Well, I meant forced as in "I'm including it for the sake of including it" not "including it would require a considerable re-write" as it wouldn't - the journey part of it wouldn't require a great deal of travelling, a capturing Pokemon requires "shifting" into their dimension. I'm still working on the mechanics of that, but you'd wind up back in the same place you started at once you returned to the human world. The scope of the world wouldn't be too large to begin with - set in the capital mostly, with a little travelling from others; the world I'd build up in subsequent stories or as I went and found the need to expand - but I wouldn't need to frantically come up with new places for a certain character just because they were moving about.
Right, that wouldn't be a good idea... I don't know how much writing you've already; I just kind of assumed that you only had a vague plot. I just love sticking my foot in my mouth.

I'm sort of reminded of the Hobbit... you don't need to have the characters travel very far in your world for a grand adventure to take place. In fact, keeping things a bit mysterious is a good idea to build interest. You're completely right here.
Quote:
You make some good points, although I wouldn't be dealing too much in heroes and villains - just people with different motivations. Right and wrong are perspectives, and I'd leave those up to the reader. Everyone wants the same thing: power. Whether or not what they do with that power, or how they go about getting it, is right or wrong, I'd leave up to you to decide. An Imperial Family member out on a journey would be a protagonist, and they'd probably be more virtuous than their siblings, who are just killing off the competition, but...they're fighting to preserve an Empire that was built on the backs of slaves, ruled through terror, and cares little for the common people. Does that make them virtuous? Up to you. Although the motivations for this character could be somewhat similar to Ghetsis in particular...there is the possibility the barbarian with Zekrom could find himself challenging these same people, as well; it depends on where I ultimately decide to take him.

I would definitely be playing the "hero becomes a villain" angle in perspectives, though - I love that angle. Someone you root for could do something you hate them for...and getting attached to anyone would be a bad idea. Nobody is immune to sudden death for the sake of the plot. xD
Ah... so it's one of those fantasy worlds.
Honestly it sounds like you have everything almost figured out already. I know I'm just floundering here, but your ideas all sound great. I'm sorry I can't really be more helpful, just... get to writing it, I guess.
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  #479    
Old 4 Weeks Ago, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by ShivaDF View Post
That makes sense to me. Can humans be sealed into cards or object as well, then? Or is there some sort of distinct barrier between human and pokemon?

Right, that wouldn't be a good idea... I don't know how much writing you've already; I just kind of assumed that you only had a vague plot. I just love sticking my foot in my mouth.
I hadn't thought of that! I would say that yes, that is entirely possible. With the exception of Legendaries, Pokemon can't cross over into the human world on their own power, but humans that cross over into their dimension would be vulnerable to being captured by Pokemon themselves if they weren't careful, and having their bodies taken as vessels and as sources of energy; it only stands to reason that would be the case, as a) it's not their home dimension, and b) fusing with Pokemon in their own dimension to take all their power requires they overwhelm that Pokemon's will, and comes with the risk that they'll lose their bodies or, more likely, go insane. The same rules for fusion would apply - any Pokemon that did this would need to keep their human in check, lest they wind up getting taken over themselves. But that could be an answer to how Mega Evolution works...

I have a clear overarching plot, but individual vague plots, so it was a fair assumption...if I had the idea FULLY formed, I wouldn't be posting in here for feedback and ideas; I'd be writing it and praying people liked it. So you're being most helpful <3

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Originally Posted by ShivaDF View Post
I'm sort of reminded of the Hobbit... you don't need to have the characters travel very far in your world for a grand adventure to take place. In fact, keeping things a bit mysterious is a good idea to build interest. You're completely right here.

Ah... so it's one of those fantasy worlds.
Honestly it sounds like you have everything almost figured out already. I know I'm just floundering here, but your ideas all sound great. I'm sorry I can't really be more helpful, just... get to writing it, I guess.
I'll be honest - I've never been very good at writing travelling stories, either. I have very little concept of distance, and how long it would take to cover a certain distance. I've read very successful novels that don't go into any detail about this, but I'd rather just set most of it in one large city and let all break loose there as people do their things~

Yep...is that a bad thing? I know most people like it, but I personally get so BORED when good and evil are absolutely defined. xD;
Sort of...still need to work out some of the kinks, although I may be ready to start in a couple of days...I need a rough chapter outline first; it helps stave off writer's block if I know roughly what I need to cover in each chapter in advance. I'm writing a glossary as I go, because I will not be taking the time to explain every little detail in the story; it interrupts the flow of the narrative. xD
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  #480    
Old 4 Weeks Ago, 10:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeria View Post
I have a clear overarching plot, but individual vague plots, so it was a fair assumption...if I had the idea FULLY formed, I wouldn't be posting in here for feedback and ideas; I'd be writing it and praying people liked it. So you're being most helpful <3
I-Isn't it too early to be using the "<3" emoticon??? *blushes*
Quote:
I'll be honest - I've never been very good at writing travelling stories, either. I have very little concept of distance, and how long it would take to cover a certain distance. I've read very successful novels that don't go into any detail about this, but I'd rather just set most of it in one large city and let all break loose there as people do their things~
I think it helps when you either:

1) Have multiple characters travelling together, so you can show a lot of time has passed because of a few isolated incidents and their relationship changing (something that takes time)
or 2) If you only have one character, focus on their mental state and how tired/determined they are. Not every story has to follow the some arbitrary number of words=some fixed distance.
Quote:
Yep...is that a bad thing? I know most people like it, but I personally get so BORED when good and evil are absolutely defined. xD;
No, it isn't bad. It's just that the Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas approach seems to be really popular nowadays. But I'm all for people dying and grey morality! :D
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  #481    
Old 4 Weeks Ago, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by ShivaDF View Post
I-Isn't it too early to be using the "<3" emoticon??? *blushes*
It's never too early to use the "<3" emoticon! xD

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaDF View Post
I think it helps when you either:

1) Have multiple characters travelling together, so you can show a lot of time has passed because of a few isolated incidents and their relationship changing (something that takes time)
or 2) If you only have one character, focus on their mental state and how tired/determined they are. Not every story has to follow the some arbitrary number of words=some fixed distance.
Those are both good approaches; I think of the two I'd favour the former over the latter, if only because I find it easier to develop characters based on their experiences with others...not sure why, that's just always been how I've written it. Might be the RPer in me. The one-man journey method is more personal, though, as you devote a lot more time to the character in question...that could be a good approach for the Northerner I was going to include. His ideals would change over the course of his journey - although whether that would be for better or worse I have no idea yet - and delving into his thought processes over the journey would help show that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaDF View Post
No, it isn't bad. It's just that the Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas approach seems to be really popular nowadays. But I'm all for people dying and grey morality! :D
It won't be QUITE that bad; the Empire will just have a very uneven economy and bloody history. There won't be any dark secret to its continued success, although there MIGHT be one in its founding...but that would be telling. And I don't want to nail anything like that down yet in case I change my mind as I'm writing the plot in more detail. xD

Although I DO need to give the structure of this currently nameless Empire (see how far away I am from being ready? I don't even have place names yet!) some further thought...it's a fairly new - less than a century - creation, established after the Emperor was the first to cross into the Pokemon realm, capture/bond with (leaving that deliberately ambiguous for now) Xerneas and pull a Nobunaga on the continent. He adopted the reigning monarchs as sons to keep them in line (as well as marrying one noble of their choice from each area and having a child by them to cement ties, naturally) and, after introducing some universal policies on places, set everything up...but he didn't name a successor.

One idea I was toying with, to balance things out a bit in terms of the class system (there is always such a clear line between nobles and working class in fantasy novels!) was regular purges of the nobility, with the appointment of ambitious/worthy commoners in their place. Perhaps based on the Talent to call Pokemon, since that's what the whole thing was founded on. Maybe think of it like miniature Gym battles, with the prize being noble titles and lands. Any commoner with Talent could challenge any Noble with Talent publicly for the right to take their position, with a few clauses in place; keeping non-Talented servants in place unless with cause to remove them, etc. That sort of system could get all sorts of people into all sorts of places...an anarchist bent on destroying the system by "legally" taking everything for themselves through this method, perhaps? Without the Emperor in place, it'd be absolute chaos and Civil War, but...Civil War is fun. Eventually, someone would have to win, as well. An equal opportunity Empire of sorts~
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