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  #651    
Old 5 Days Ago (08:21 AM). Edited 5 Days Ago by Spherical Ice.
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Quote originally posted by Inyotef:
The reason I use Ruby is because it's easier to hack, period. The transition to extended ROM support isn't quite complete yet and its nice not worrying about that.

Because you think Emerald and FireRed are programmatically superior is no reason to other people regarding what's most comfortable with them. If they're picking their fruit over which ones others are picking as opposed to what tastes best to them they're missing the point.

As for the topic, I don't think it's right that the elitism promoting only those two bases shortchange Ruby from having more assembly work done for them. I'd like to see better hacks for Ruby, and while I really don't care about Sapphire or LeafGreen, I'm not against using them simply because I prefer something else. My opinion weighs the same as everyone else's.

I'll likely end up doing this myself later on anyway so it doesn't matter.
I'm curious about your assertion that Ruby is easier to hack than FireRed.

I never said either ROM was "programmatically superior" (although there are claims made by others that I'm not knowledgeable enough to dispute which do indeed suggest that Ruby is an inferior base from a programming standpoint, such as its Pokédex which is supposedly exceptionally difficult to expand), I'm saying that at the moment the community is lacking the amount of people willing to do research into the ROMs' workings themselves for us to really have the luxury to spread ourselves so thin and research all five ROMs in Gen 3 instead of just focusing on the two with the most groundwork done already, i.e. FireRed and Emerald. I'm not saying your opinion on which game is better is wrong, I'm saying that it isn't unreasonable for researchers / developers to only develop for ROMs they're comfortable with. It's not a matter of "shortchanging Ruby," and is more just working with what they're comfortable, familiar and are sure will reach and be used by the broadest audience.
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  #652    
Old 5 Days Ago (09:31 AM).
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Quote originally posted by Dionen:
lol, relax dude {XD}


Does your upcoming "- OAM generation/manipulation routine" might deal with that? I mean, altering existing OAMs, or just generated ones?
Yeah it does. I'm still working on making it load arbitrary images too, but that will take a little more time.

Quote originally posted by Spherical Ice:
The reasoning is more "people willing to research are scarce as it is so focusing our efforts onto the same two, most powerful / useful / well-documented ROM bases instead of spreading ourselves thin for what is basically completionist / superficially different reasons that are otherwise basically redundant" than what you listed. FireRed already has a hack by Jambo51 to allow the use of lots of flags, so that isn't really an advantage for Ruby, either.
That and FireRed has over 511 Safe-non-temporary flags to use as it is (without the hack).

Quote originally posted by Inyotef:
That sounds lazy to me lawl. "Well it's not researched, so why research it lol" is a horrible line of reasoning.
I'm figuring out assembly at the moment so I'd love to do all the dirty work but can't right now. :/
Yeah, it is lazy. I don't have time or patience to hack something that's not my preferred base. Ruby is like Emerald with less features and more bugs. Anyways, I'll address your points now.

Quote:
Ruby doesn't have a giant chunk of wasted free space, and lets you manipulate more flags (albeit outside normal RAM) than FR or E. Using the debugger to find RAM offsets of things is far easier (say, with graphics). I see little reason not to research it.
There is no such thing as "wasted free space". File Sizes for the GBA are static sized because the cart size is 32MB max. When dumping the ROM, the dumpers trim the file size down to just the amount used (for Pokemon games that size is 16MB). If your argument is that the free space appended to the end of the file isn't present in Ruby while it is for other bases, then that just means you have less free space to hack the ROM with and add features to it. Though ROM expansion is very easy these days with tools existing to do the process for you. However, this should be testament to show you how much more efficient Emerald is than Ruby if Emerald has more features and a smaller base file size.

As for the GBA's RAM, it's the same amount of RAM for each. See http://problemkaputt.de/gbatek.htm#gbamemorymap for a full RAM Map out for the GBA. Also without a free chunk of RAM space (like FR's 0x203C000 area) you cannot repoint the save blocks to include more flags, saved datastructures ect.. in general. Finding RAM offsets for structures are generally easy IF you know what the structure is like, and what to look for (this is where the superior research of the other bases come into play).

Quote originally posted by Inyotef:
The reason I use Ruby is because it's easier to hack, period. The transition to extended ROM support isn't quite complete yet and its nice not worrying about that.
What? Ruby is in no way "easier" to hack than the other bases. If anything, it's harder and less fruitful. Fire Red is the easiest to hack out of all the bases, period. Other more popular bases are starting to require expansion support because they're so far ahead of R/S that all the wonderful hacks can't possibly be supported with the original file sizes. Anyways, this whole issue with expansion dis-compatibility was caused by poor programming practice in general by tool writers. However, you can't blame those who are working for free, and three years ago, probably couldn't imagine we'd have this many new things!

Quote:
Because you think Emerald and FireRed are programmatically superior is no reason to other people regarding what's most comfortable with them. If they're picking their fruit over which ones others are picking as opposed to what tastes best to them they're missing the point.
You're partially right here. Everyone has their preferences, my favourite ROM is FireRed. It's a nice coincidence that FireRed is pretty much the awesomest base ever. In general, hack what you want, but if you're hacking a low resource ROM, then I will tell you what the disadvantages are and the better options. From there it's your choice on whether or not you prefer quality over a sense of nostalgic likeness or whatever. No one will ridicule you for hacking what you want, we're all doing this as a hobby :)

Quote:
As for the topic, I don't think it's right that the elitism promoting only those two bases shortchange Ruby from having more assembly work done for them. I'd like to see better hacks for Ruby, and while I really don't care about Sapphire or LeafGreen, I'm not against using them simply because I prefer something else. My opinion weighs the same as everyone else's.

I'll likely end up doing this myself later on anyway so it doesn't matter.
The elitism is well justified. This is something you need to understand. These popular ROMs ARE better alternatives. Initially, the most popular ROM was Ruby, but people figured out why it wasn't the best. Which led to the ROM hacking trend we have now. Anyways, as I said prior, it's always your choice to hack what you want. I for one, have no interest in hacking Ruby.
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  #653    
Old 5 Days Ago (10:35 AM).
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Quote originally posted by FBI agent:
That and FireRed has over 511 Safe-non-temporary flags to use as it is (without the hack).
If you're building on top of the original FireRed canon, maybe not?

Quote originally posted by FBI agent:
Yeah, it is lazy. I don't have time or patience to hack something that's not my preferred base. Ruby is like Emerald with less features and more bugs. Anyways, I'll address your points now.
No one told you to. O_o

You're your own person lol, this isn't work. Everyone does what they want to an extent.

Quote originally posted by FBI agent:
There is no such thing as "wasted free space".
All those nops in Emerald that were written over for years?

Quote originally posted by FBI agent:
File Sizes for the GBA are static sized because the cart size is 32MB max. When dumping the ROM, the dumpers trim the file size down to just the amount used (for Pokemon games that size is 16MB). If your argument is that the free space appended to the end of the file isn't present in Ruby while it is for other bases, then that just means you have less free space to hack the ROM with and add features to it.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.

Quote originally posted by FBI agent:
Though ROM expansion is very easy these days with tools existing to do the process for you. However, this should be testament to show you how much more efficient Emerald is than Ruby if Emerald has more features and a smaller base file size.
I don't use Emerald, so I really don't care about that.

Quote originally posted by FBI agent:
What? Ruby is in no way "easier" to hack than the other bases. If anything, it's harder and less fruitful.
How fruitful a hack is far from how "technically innovative" it is, lol. There's good writing, good graphics work, how the hack meshes together, then there's "features" made with assembly. It's one of many gears to be honest.

Quote originally posted by FBI agent:
Fire Red is the easiest to hack out of all the bases, period.
I wouldn't be hacking Ruby without a reason to.

Quote originally posted by FBI agent:
Other more popular bases are starting to require expansion support because they're so far ahead of R/S that all the wonderful hacks can't possibly be supported with the original file sizes.
Emerald is only one base.

Quote originally posted by FBI agent:
Anyways, this whole issue with expansion dis-compatibility was caused by poor programming practice in general by tool writers. However, you can't blame those who are working for free, and three years ago, probably couldn't imagine we'd have this many new things!
We're getting around to fixing mistakes like that. But we're not there yet, are we? We have a ways to go, and until we get there "expanded ROM support" is still relevant.

Quote originally posted by FBI agent:
You're partially right here. Everyone has their preferences, my favourite ROM is FireRed. It's a nice coincidence that FireRed is pretty much the awesomest base ever. In general, hack what you want, but if you're hacking a low resource ROM, then I will tell you what the disadvantages are and the better options. From there it's your choice on whether or not you prefer quality over a sense of nostalgic likeness or whatever. No one will ridicule you for hacking what you want, we're all doing this as a hobby :)
Don't kid yourself.

Quote originally posted by FBI agent:
The elitism is well justified. This is something you need to understand.
I'm sorry, you don't justify elitism. Shoving your opinion into everyone's faces and acting like it somehow holds any more water is just ignorant. FireRed and Emerald are being given technical advantages that could have honestly been bestowed onto Ruby but weren't, and whether those technical advantages are the bee's knees are your opinion - and you should know something about opinions: they all weigh the same. People are going to do what they want anyway, and the best thing you can do is hold what you have as preferences the same as what everyone else has, and not put them on a gilded pedestal like everyone needs to know about it. FireRed is more researched, and more developed for. That is a fact. It isn't by some magical virtue that that is the case, though! A large part of it was just luck. I'm honestly hacking Ruby because Nintendo's graphics are nicer in Hoenn, and because I'm building on top of their canon so I have to leave all of their flags alone. I don't have to expand my ROM and worry about tool incompatibility. That's it. It's not so complicated.
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  #654    
Old 5 Days Ago (10:53 AM).
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Aaaaaalright folks, let's keep it civil. In any case, this has gotten quite off-topic so I'll go ahead and move it to the DCC.
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  #655    
Old 5 Days Ago (11:39 AM). Edited 5 Days Ago by FBI agent.
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Edit:
I was wondering how many people would be interested in a weekly ASM workshop kind of thing? I want to take on people who are knowledgeable of scripting (atleast to a decent degree) and know how to basically do hex edits such as repointing tables, know what a pointer is, things like that.
If you're interested in something like this, please voice your interest here!


Pre-edit. My replies to some argument that probably never needed to happen:
Spoiler:

Quote originally posted by Inyotef:
If you're building on top of the original FireRed canon, maybe not?
Yeah, you can. There's 9MB of free ROM space to build on. Also around 5KB of RAM space unused 1 bit per Flag, that's a lot of flags.

Quote:
No one told you to. O_o
You're your own person lol, this isn't work. Everyone does what they want to an extent.
You made a request in my thread, then called me lazy when I declined, haha.

Quote:
All those nops in Emerald that were written over for years?
00s and FFs it doesn't matter. If it's unoccupied, and safe to overwrite, by definition it is Free Space. That's also a shamefully weak point if you're trying to justify why Ruby is better than Emerald.

Quote:
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.
I'm trying to show you that File Sizes are changed for Pokemon ROMs to a static 16 MB when dumped, even though the cartridge is 32 MB. This is to save space on your computer. This is also why 32 MB expansions of said ROMs are safe for Cartridge play. You can make 5 regions and still have extra room.

Quote:
I don't use Emerald, so I really don't care about that.
That's a beautiful way to dodge a point.

Quote:
How fruitful a hack is far from how "technically innovative" it is, lol. There's good writing, good graphics work, how the hack meshes together, then there's "features" made with assembly. It's one of many gears to be honest.
Now add good writing, graphics work and all of that into a Base that's actually better.

Quote:
I wouldn't be hacking Ruby without a reason to.
You haven't given one reason yet other than "it's my opinion". If you're going to have an argument like this, I'd prefer if you knew what you're talking about. Your only argument thus far is the nops in Emerald not being present in Ruby. But those Nops are free space, and take all of about 20 seconds to change to "FF"s. Now if you have anything that's actually technologically valid, I'd love to hear.

Quote:
Emerald is only one base.
The most popular ROM base is FireRed. I don't know why you thought of Emerald instead, or that Emerald was the only popular ROM base...

Quote:
We're getting around to fixing mistakes like that. But we're not there yet, are we? We have a ways to go, and until we get there "expanded ROM support" is still relevant.
For the starting hacker, yes. If you know what you're doing, expansion isn't a pain to deal with at all. There are already alternatives for scripting and mapping which support expansion. From there, editing tables is a hacker's ability to understand the data presented. Anyways, it's still an inconvenience to hack without nice tools. That's not what this arguement is about, because expansion while adding on to cannon events is possible for all ROM bases (as I explained above about cartridge size). Even without expanding to 32 MB, it's still 9MB free to use. That's 9/16 MB free.


Quote:
Don't kid yourself.
sigh...

Quote:
I'm sorry, you don't justify elitism. Shoving your opinion into everyone's faces and acting like it somehow holds any more water is just ignorant. FireRed and Emerald are being given technical advantages that could have honestly been bestowed onto Ruby but weren't, and whether those technical advantages are the bee's knees are your opinion - and you should know something about opinions: they all weigh the same. People are going to do what they want anyway, and the best thing you can do is hold what you have as preferences the same as what everyone else has, and not put them on a gilded pedestal like everyone needs to know about it. FireRed is more researched, and more developed for. That is a fact. It isn't by some magical virtue that that is the case, though! A large part of it was just luck. I'm honestly hacking Ruby because Nintendo's graphics are nicer in Hoenn, and because I'm building on top of their canon so I have to leave all of their flags alone. I don't have to expand my ROM and worry about tool incompatibility. That's it. It's not so complicated.
[/quote]

I'm saying as a ROM Base FR, EM are already miles ahead of their competitors. Forget the research or things hackers added. Just the standalone ROM, they're both newer and have many bugs fixed, features added ect.

Now from that superior ROM base, add the extra research and hack development. Ruby isn't even comparable. I'm not degrading your preference to hack Ruby. I'm trying to tell you that when hacking Gen III Ruby is at the bottom of the pack from the ROM base. Then added features for other bases granted by hackers just plummet Ruby's standings. This is fact, not opinion.

Anywho, I think I've proven my point. If you don't see what I'm coming from then that's unfortunate and I wish you the best of luck in your Ruby Hack. When comparing Ruby and Emerald I'm unbiased because I don't hack either, nor do I have a preference to either. I'm just stating facts.
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  #656    
Old 5 Days Ago (02:19 PM).
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I'd love to see something like that. On what medium would you orchestrate it, though?
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Do you want to be carried? To have your hand held?
I would write a sonata for you as soon as the inspiration came
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  #657    
Old 5 Days Ago (02:27 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Inyotef:
I'd love to see something like that. On what medium would you orchestrate it, though?
Well, it's ASM, so the language is the same for each ROM base. Only pointers and such would be changing. I'll consider finding pointers for other bases if I have time. Right now, I plan to use FireRed because most of the pointers I have memorized (I'm pretty nerdy).

Videos would be embedded into posts from youtube and such.
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  #658    
Old 4 Days Ago (05:07 PM).
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Quote originally posted by FBI agent:
Well, it's ASM, so the language is the same for each ROM base. Only pointers and such would be changing. I'll consider finding pointers for other bases if I have time. Right now, I plan to use FireRed because most of the pointers I have memorized (I'm pretty nerdy).

Videos would be embedded into posts from youtube and such.
I don't think you understood my question. What medium would the workshop be on? A forum thread? Skype chat? IRC?
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I want roses, I want flowers; I want a kiss too
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Can you carry me in your arms?

That same me wants to protect, to uphold
To look out for you and ensure your health
I'd take the fall for what's wrong with you
Do you want to be carried? To have your hand held?
I would write a sonata for you as soon as the inspiration came
We could go on an adventure, I could be your guide
We'll be like little kids again, with all the fun and bliss

We'll have the time of our lives, we'll be lovers under the moon
Sipping lemon and breathing in the mountains
And we'll go to sleep as one and never wake up
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  #659    
Old 4 Days Ago (05:55 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Inyotef:
I don't think you understood my question. What medium would the workshop be on? A forum thread? Skype chat? IRC?
Likely a combination of IRC and Forum thread. I'm still undecided, and probably can be persuaded.
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  #660    
Old 4 Days Ago (11:50 PM).
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Does any one know if there will be new rom hacks for gba this year ??
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  #661    
Old 4 Days Ago (05:12 AM).
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Quote originally posted by branco56:
Does any one know if there will be new rom hacks for gba this year ??
There's plenty of new betas out this year who knows, they might have a full release by the end of the year. Pokemon Discovery and Fire Emblem: Bloodlines have a fair bit to play. Plus, Gogo is releasing his beta sometime in April!

So yeah, there's plenty going on. Go check out the progressing hacks and hacks studio areas.


Quote originally posted by FBI agent:
Likely a combination of IRC and Forum thread. I'm still undecided, and probably can be persuaded.
Thread with a drop in IRC/Skype help room or something? (y)(y)(y)
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  #662    
Old 4 Days Ago (09:33 AM). Edited 4 Days Ago by Christos don't kno yo.
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Oh sweet then cause i play them on my phone emulater and yet only light plantum and glazed best ones for far so i been wondering if there will be any better ones lol

Beside im new to this whole web site lol but i love pokemon games :)
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  #663    
Old 1 Day Ago (12:51 AM).
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Guys, can you suggest me some hacks with P/S Split.. I'm bored..
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Old 1 Day Ago (02:47 AM).
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Quote originally posted by mohan226:
Guys, can you suggest me some hacks with P/S Split.. I'm bored..
Just have a browse through some of the popular threads' features .



I'm surprised not many people are joining in FBI Agent's ASM Workshop! Good opportunity to get some help and feedback developing ASM routines, FBI has been really helpful with correcting and adjusting my routines.
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Old 1 Day Ago (07:28 AM).
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Quote originally posted by Magic:
Just have a browse through some of the popular threads' features :).



I'm surprised not many people are joining in FBI Agent's ASM Workshop! Good opportunity to get some help and feedback developing ASM routines, FBI has been really helpful with correcting and adjusting my routines.
It might be a little bit of intimidation by the topic, mixed in with some difficulty issues.
I get the feeling I made week one a little too hard. I jumped a few hurdles in hopes that people will try things out and experiment. If you're always writing noob routines like, "get Pokemon's health" or something trivial like that, you won't improve. Exercising your limits and trying to overcome them is key. Some guidance, which I'm trying to provide, while you're stuck on something really goes a long way.

When I was learning stuff, this was the strategy I used. I made the ASM resource thread, right when I learned how to hook. It served as good practice and definitely improved my skills. Obviously, we can't have everyone making their 90 resource threads, so hopefully the workshops are a good substitute.

If you don't have interest in learning ASM in general, then that's fine too. I would be happy if only 5 people were able to learn ASM to a decent degree out of that thread :)

I also hope people use the ASM help thread a lot more too. It's a great place to find not only me, but daniilS too for help!
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Old 1 Day Ago (02:53 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Magic:
Just have a browse through some of the popular threads' features .



I'm surprised not many people are joining in FBI Agent's ASM Workshop! Good opportunity to get some help and feedback developing ASM routines, FBI has been really helpful with correcting and adjusting my routines.
I know its a bit fun. But, I still need to understand some commands to participate fully. And, there's this college studies.
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Old 20 Hours Ago (08:12 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Magic:
Just have a browse through some of the popular threads' features .



I'm surprised not many people are joining in FBI Agent's ASM Workshop! Good opportunity to get some help and feedback developing ASM routines, FBI has been really helpful with correcting and adjusting my routines.
I would join too if I knew any asm what so ever.
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Old 13 Hours Ago (02:47 AM).
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hai here i think i posted something here yesterday but i cant seem to find it x3 my phone probably didn't post it " so could anyone with a 3ds with a 9.5.0-22u system scan 6 qrcodes for me and trade them? i made them myself with pokgear all legit stats, moves and abilities, its just my system is one update to high (9.5.0-23E) and i really want to ty a good team without any training hycups...in other words I'v gotten bored with all the ev training/breeding for my previous team ".....im willing to make you six pokemon in return and i'll send the qr codes through email :3
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  #669    
Old 13 Hours Ago (02:48 AM).
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Spherical Ice Spherical Ice is offline
 
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Quote originally posted by tayyfox:
hai here i thnk i posted somethng here yesterday but i cant seem ta fnd it x3 mah phone probably didn't post it ^^" so could anyone wit a 3ds wit a 9.5.0-22u system scan 6 qrcodes fo me and trade tham? i buggine tham mahself wit pokgear all legit stats, moves and abilities, its just mah system is one update ta high (9.5.0-23E) and i really want ta ty a good tebe witout any tranng hycups...n othar words I'v gotsten bored wit all tha ev tranng/breedng fo mah previous tebe ^^".....im willng ta make you six pokemon n return and i'll send tha qr codes through email :3
Your post was deleted because it has no relevance to ROM Hacking at all, and it still does not.
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  #670    
Old 13 Hours Ago (02:50 AM).
tayyfox tayyfox is offline
 
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im so sorry ,i didnt mean to be out of context ^///^" i just thought that qr codes count as hacking to some people , is there any thread that i could ask this in ?
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  #671    
Old 13 Hours Ago (02:51 AM).
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Spherical Ice Spherical Ice is offline
 
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Quote originally posted by tayyfox:
oh im so sorry ^///^" is thare any thread i can ask dis ?
I'm not sure, sorry.
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  #672    
Old 13 Hours Ago (02:55 AM).
tayyfox tayyfox is offline
 
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thanks anyways :3 i'll go search through the forums and see if i can find it
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  #673    
Old 8 Hours Ago (07:58 AM).
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elcaptino elcaptino is offline
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i see spheals everywhere is it a prank on 1 april ?
lol
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  #674    
Old 1 Hour Ago (02:28 PM).
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Percy Percy is online now
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naw, its just teh stile of dis forum.
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