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Episode Discussion Whether you want to speculate about the upcoming episodes or reminisce about the episodes you watched years ago, Episode Discussion is your place for discussing, speculating, and reviewing all the Pokémon anime episodes.

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  #26    
Old March 4th, 2014, 08:53 AM
LividZephyr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wobbu View Post
Brock had more purpose during DP than AG. He was used as a tool for Ash's and Dawn's individual development IMO. Brock taught Dawn the basics of keeping Pokémon healthy, which was showcased during Trials and Adulations when Dawn took care of her ill Mamoswine independently. Brock also helped Ash with his Gym strategies and made the connection between Buizel/Aipom iirc. Brock's presence in DP was a great transition from being Ash's sidekick to a serious breeder, which is why it was good that he pursued his dream and left after DP. He had much better reasoning for leaving before Unova compared to leaving before the Orange Islands.
Yeah, I think Brock makes a good foil here - he's essential to the group even if it's not visible, sort of like he is the glue that holds them together. Him leaving after Sinnoh makes sense. Him leaving after Hoenn would have felt forced, like it did in the Orange Islands. After Kanto, he decided one woman was worth leaving pursuit of his dreams for, when he had hit on a woman in 80% of episodes before and got ear-tugged... and said woman he left the group for turned out to be a lesbian. Ouch.

Also it was Zoey who initiated the Buizel/Aipom trade, but Brock backed it 100%. I also think he was the one who noticed the two watching the other's training.

I don't dislike DP Brock and think he does have a purpose, even if his role could be better utilized. He does have more of a purpose than in AG, which is at least something. But it was time for a change after DP, and I kind of like having new twerps every generation because it keeps it more fresh. If only they'd replace Ash, who has been the focus for far too long...
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  #27    
Old March 4th, 2014, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LividZephyr View Post
Yeah, I think Brock makes a good foil here - he's essential to the group even if it's not visible, sort of like he is the glue that holds them together. Him leaving after Sinnoh makes sense. Him leaving after Hoenn would have felt forced, like it did in the Orange Islands. After Kanto, he decided one woman was worth leaving pursuit of his dreams for, when he had hit on a woman in 80% of episodes before and got ear-tugged... and said woman he left the group for turned out to be a lesbian. Ouch.

Also it was Zoey who initiated the Buizel/Aipom trade, but Brock backed it 100%. I also think he was the one who noticed the two watching the other's training.

I don't dislike DP Brock and think he does have a purpose, even if his role could be better utilized. He does have more of a purpose than in AG, which is at least something. But it was time for a change after DP, and I kind of like having new twerps every generation because it keeps it more fresh. If only they'd replace Ash, who has been the focus for far too long...
Is this something inferred or...? Because I don't think it was ever explicitly stated in either English or Japanese. Nor do I believe it was even implied, iirc.

As for why Brock was in DP, I think they just didn't want to go through and develop any of the Sinnoh males since none were anywhere close in age to Ash aside from Roark, but then people would whine that he felt like a Brock clone without the flirting and say they missed Brock's aggressive flirting.
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  #28    
Old March 4th, 2014, 01:06 PM
LividZephyr
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Ivy being a lesbian is my theory. She behaved apathetically toward Brock and his "Don't mention... that name." reaction is indicative of something "unfeasible" to him - that a hot woman wouldn't want a man. Why else would he feel so burned by her?

Seriously though, his hitting-on-women thing does get old given how often he does it. They seem to have to put it in nearly every episode. They don't have to at all - it's a great running gag when used at the proper interval. I didn't like in what I saw of BW, though, how Iris and Cilan didn't have those kinds of quirks. Might be why they were dull to me. Croagunk jabbing Brock is priceless at times, especially given the reaction faces.

Really, I think DP is the best series and I've only seen half of it. Yes, it beats out Kanto for me. Kanto really isn't as satisfying given how Ash didn't legitimately earn most of his badges - only legit beating Surge and Blaine (he never took out Koga's Venomoth). I do miss Misty, though.

Ash: Sinnoh > Johto > Kanto > Hoenn > Unova
Pikachu: Sinnoh > Kanto > Johto > Hoenn > Unova
Guy slot: Brock Kanto > Brock Sinnoh > Brock Johto > Cilan > Brock Hoenn
Girl slot: Misty > Dawn > May > Iris
Fifth slot: Piplup >= Togepi >>>>> Axew >>>> Max

imo.

But this is getting slightly off topic xD
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  #29    
Old March 4th, 2014, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Candy Cane Forest Elf. View Post
As for why Brock was in DP, I think they just didn't want to go through and develop any of the Sinnoh males since none were anywhere close in age to Ash aside from Roark, but then people would whine that he felt like a Brock clone without the flirting and say they missed Brock's aggressive flirting.
I don't think anyone really cares for Brock's repetitive flirting gag as the show progressed as it got old by the time he returned for Johto. Sure Croagunk spiced it up a bit, but when a pokemon is more interesting than the trainer there is a problem.

I think its also the sheer mass of screentime Dawn got that made Brock feel even more redundant. Whereas in previous series Misty/Brock got similar type of focus so neither got much more than the other (not counting Orange), and in AG you had Max there so even when May was doing something Max and Brock played off each other, in DP Brock was literally the only "sidekick character" so it made him feel even more out of place than before.

Brock also only has 3 pokemon throughout the entire span of DP, which shows the writers didn't even care about giving him pokemon anymore. Even back in AG he had tons of evolutions, (Lotad evolves twice to Ludicolo, and Mudkip evolves), but in DP he had literally nothing but Bonsly evolving very early on and nothing else till the second to last ep of DP when he leaves.

It's almost as if the writers knew from the start that they weren't going to do much with him, so why bother bringing him back at all? Brock and Dawn didn't have any real chemistry so it would have been better if he was replaced with someone Dawn could actually interact with and feel like a character with. I would have much preferred Brock to leave earlier in the series than to see what he became.
  #30    
Old March 5th, 2014, 10:09 AM
LividZephyr
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I think it was decided midway through DP that Brock wouldn't be coming back for BW. They probably shelved some plans they had for him in favor of developing Dawn instead. Now that I am halfway done - wow, honestly - I can safely say that. Brock hasn't gotten a focus and hasn't had any changes to his team since Happiny hatched. Even the Doc Brock episode only partially focused on him. He really is a "sidekick" and although I do like him, I feel that he's under-utilized and under-developed in this arc. However, developing him further could take away from Dawn. Remove some of the filler episodes for him, perhaps? Although there were a few women enamored with him, namely Autumn and Holly.

Just finished Battling the Generation Gap and I gotta say that Lila was awesome. What a badass - I wouldn't expect anything less of Johanna's rival. Was actually hoping she'd beat Dawn so she could appear in the Grand Festival (we all know Dawn makes it there), but oh wells. Although the outfits the twerps picked were... awful.

Also, why am I surprised that Brock is metrosexual? Maybe he is trying to impress the ladies by showing off his shopping and design habits?

The camp arc was interesting too. Having an androgynous female version of Ash proved very interesting, and the way the two of them bickered and then got along and then bickered again was priceless. Can totally see people shipping those two.

94 episodes and two movies down, 95 episodes and two movies to go. 189 episodes not counting the recaps. Yay progress!
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  #31    
Old March 5th, 2014, 10:48 AM
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The later half of DP drags a bit. The gap between the 7th and 8th Gym is like 50 episodes. This is around the time the HGSS games came out so they started making a lot of generic filler about old Johto pokemon again to promote the games. Sadly when you hit the later stretch this is where DP goes downhill a bit although there are still some good episodes.

This is also where Dawn's arc gets stagnant a bit as her team stops developing aside from getting a baby Cyndaquil. I wish they did more with Dawn's pokemon as Ambipom is released and the rest of her team stays cutesy and small other than Mamoswine. This was around the time it became obvious that Piplup was never going to evolve and her rivals stop being the focus of the story. Kenny and Nando barely show up and Zoey goes on her way to Mary-Suedom. You'll probably like Ursula though when she appears.

I remember back in 2009-2010 this is where a lot of people started to get bored of DP's length, but I imagine it was because this was the first time we spent 4 years in one region.
  #32    
Old March 5th, 2014, 01:45 PM
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The gap between the 7th and 8th Gyms had Shinji vs. Jindai, Hunter J and Regigigas make appearances, Handsome’s introduction, the first Satoshi-Shinji full battle, a Ginga-dan appearance, the Futaba Town Festival, the conclusions of Hunter J and Ginga-dan as villains, Glion being temporarily written out and Fukamaru joining Satoshi’s team, Bouysel learning Ice Punch, two Hikari Pokemon Contests, the seeds for the end of the Satoshi-Shinji rivalry being planted, Jun and Shinji finally meeting, Moukazaru's evolution into Goukazaru, Ohba’s and Denzi’s introductions, Hayashigame's evolution into Dodaitose, Kikuno’s introduction, Hikari gaining Togekiss (which was a stupid move, I thought, but it still counts as an event), and the Grand Festival.

Of all 51 (?) episodes between the two Badge wins, I would argue that only around 18 or so of them count as filler in the truest sense of the word - and some of those fillers include things like Rumika’s reappearance for the first time in over a decade and the evil Togepi, so it certainly wasn’t all bad. The rest were either introducing notable characters or concluding some of the series' story arcs. I don’t think that period of DP dragged at all. In fact, I would argue that many of those episodes are among the strongest of the entire show.

Honestly, I could never quite understand the complaints about that gap. Even if Satoshi had won the Beacon Badge ten episodes before he did, very little about the show's length would have really changed. All of that would have to be addressed eventually.

Last edited by Lizardo; March 5th, 2014 at 02:04 PM.
  #33    
Old March 6th, 2014, 08:40 AM
LividZephyr
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I can't understand all of the Japanese names. I know Satoshi = Ash, Takeshi = Brock, Hikari = Dawn, Kojiro = James, Musashi = Jessie, Nyarth = Meowth, Shinji = Paul, Melissa = Fantina, and Jun = Barry. But after that I'm totally lost and have no idea what you are talking about. We're discussing in English, so perhaps providing a guide would be helpful. Like I said before, although some of the seiyuu are much better at emoting, I prefer to understand the dialogue when I watch TV. If I wanted to read captions, I'd read the manga.

Anyway I blitzed several episodes yesterday, so now I'm at the Ash/Fantina gym battle.

One thing I find weird is Turtwig's evolution. It seemed kind of forced. I mean, all of its development was as a Turtwig, and when it evolved, all of it basically got thrown out the window. It's not like with Chimchar, who was obviously written to evolve and become stronger and continue developing. But it seems to me that Turtwig and Grotle are two entirely different Pokemon. Different personalities and battlestyles... there's no more biting Ash's head or playing around, and Grotle doesn't seem as overprotective. Turtwig really reminded me of Bulbasaur, who refused to evolve. Maybe they wanted to "make up" for that, but that kept a likable character in for longer. Grotle... seems dull. But that's only one episode. I'm interested to see where he goes.

Almost done with Battle Dimension. Galactic Battle next!
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  #34    
Old March 6th, 2014, 11:53 AM
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For future reference, you can find translations on Bulbapedia. That’s where I often find the names of the Japanese Pokemon, or just by reading them through the English subs. While I’ll go by the dub too (particularly when it comes to names for moves/abilities), I find that I really prefer to call the characters by their original names, and will probably continue to do so. That’s the approach I take to anime in general, but in the future I’ll try to keep in mind that English fans might be more comfortable with the dub names.

(From this point on, I’d be mindful of potential spoilers. I don’t know how much of DP you’ve seen or know about, so some of the things said might accidentally surprise you.)

But, anyway, as for a guide to my last post... Jindai/Brandon, Handsome/Looker, Ginga-dan/Team Galaxy, Futaba Town/Twinleaf Town, Glion/Gliscor, Fukamaru/Gible, Bouysel/Buizel, Moukazaru/Monferno, Goukazaru/Infernape, Ohba/Flint, Denzi/Volkner, Hayashigame/Grotle, Dodaitose/Torterra, Kikuno/Bertha, Rumika/Jessibelle (if that name doesn’t ring a bell, Jessibelle is James’ old fiancee from a Kanto episode).

In any case, the story of Naetle/Hayashigame/Dodaitose in the anime is a rather sad one and one of Diamond & Pearl’s weaknesses when it comes to Satoshi’s Pokemon. It never stops being a prominent part of his team but not only does its personality fade, its win-loss record just gets worse and worse. It’s definitely the weak link - the “Cotoise” (Torkoal), if you will - of his team. That being said, I really enjoyed the “Hayashigame evolution” episode you mentioned (the art is atrocious, though) and the whole point of it is that the Pokemon’s battle-style will have to change to accommodate its new body. Satoshi can’t treat Hayashigame as he did Naetle, because it’s fundamentally different. That’s what he learns when he sees Shinji’s Dodaitose in action. Not to mention, I think it’s an important episode when it comes to understanding Shinji’s character and once again foreshadows a big plot point for him later.

I personally didn’t find the evolution forced. By this point in the show Naetle’s been with Satoshi for a long time and has gained plenty of experience. More interestingly, its evolution in this case not only fails to bring itself and Satoshi a victory against Shinji and Donkarasu (Honchcrow), it causes them to fall completely out of sync and guarantees their defeat. In a series where a mid-battle evolution has either meant victory (Satoshi’s Ohsubame/Swellow) or a renewed struggle before going down (Kasumi/Misty and Nyorozo/Poliwhirl), Hayashigame was the first occasion I remember where the evolution actually causes more problems than it solves.

And it’s not for nothing that Naetle evolved during a battle with Shinji, either:

Spoiler:
One might find that many of the biggest moments involving Satoshi’s Pokemon - Hikozaru especially - in Diamond & Pearl occur around Shinji, or because of something having to do with him. Naetle evolves into Hayashigame during a battle with Shinji’s Donkarasu, and learns a new battle-style from Shinji’s Dodaitose. Reiji helps teach Mukubird “Brave Bird” and then Mukubird evolves into Mukuhawk during another battle against Shinji. Gliger finds itself afraid to battle because of its loss to Shinji’s Glion. We see Hikozaru activate “Blaze” for the first time as a result of a Shinji battle, it evolves into Moukazaru during the full battle with Shinji, and again into Goukazaru with Shinji there to witness it. Even when Pikachu revisits the Thunderstone decision (possibly the one real bit of development Pikachu gets in DP), Shinji plays a part in the episode.

In each case, I think the reason Shinji is a catalyst for so much of their development is clear. A significant theme of the Satoshi-Shinji rivalry is the question of whether or not the bond between trainer and Pokemon can make them stronger. This is more or less what Satoshi tells Shinji when they first meet, and what causes Shinji to challenge Satoshi to a battle in the first place. All of Satoshi’s Pokemon share a bond with him, and they push themselves that extra mile whenever Shinji questions their strength because of it. Seeing Satoshi’s words come to life over and over again is one of the reasons I think Shinji starts to reconsider Satoshi later on, and what lays the foundation for Shinji’s character development.
  #35    
Old March 6th, 2014, 08:07 PM
LividZephyr
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Yeah, I don't have any interest in learning the Japanese names of Pokemon. The anime characters I can understand, but translating the Pokemon names is preferred on an English-based site. Most people, like me, don't know Japanese names that are different. 721 English names is enough to remember. Like the ones that are the same - Pikachu, Chikorita, Pachirisu, and so on - make it quite a bit easier.

Also ugh Torkoal. One of the worst parts of AG. Seriously didn't even get a time to shine. Torkoal isn't a very good Pokemon in the slightest, and there were better Fire-types they could have given him. There weren't many things to do with it. Defensive Pokemon honestly don't make for exciting anime battles.

I don't mind spoilers. I know quite a bit about the later stages of DP and have seen quite a few of those episodes, so not much about it will surprise me. It's mainly the earlier stages - the first 128 or so episodes - that I didn't know enough about. Until now anyway. Anything including and after the Khoury/Lyra arc is stuff I know enough from, since I sporadically watched some of those episodes around when they aired. And rewatched a few before I started this, such as... major spoilers...
Spoiler:
The undoing of Team Galactic's evil plan to open up the Distortion World and the death of Pokemon Hunter J.

Honestly, I still can't believe that a kids' show killed a character off like that, but then again I can't think of anyone more deserving than that [bleep]ing cold and heartless [bleep].
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  #36    
Old March 6th, 2014, 09:48 PM
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Hoenn didn't have many fire types, and with May getting Torchic the only alternative for Ash was Numel/Camerupt, who I guess the writers didn't want on the main cast. Ash usually has one pokemon on each team that's handled far worse than the rest though.
  #37    
Old March 11th, 2014, 09:15 AM
LividZephyr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by precita View Post
Hoenn didn't have many fire types, and with May getting Torchic the only alternative for Ash was Numel/Camerupt, who I guess the writers didn't want on the main cast. Ash usually has one pokemon on each team that's handled far worse than the rest though.
Yeah, this is true. In Kanto, he had Pidgeotto whose development consisted of poking holes in Team Rocket's balloon. In Johto, he had Heracross, who was shelved early, and Phanpy who came late and was too young to do much. Then Torkoal and Torterra as we said. And in Unova... not sure which one got the least development, since he caught so many Pokemon so quickly that there was no time to develop them all. Why couldn't the captures have been more gradual?


Anyway, update for my DP watching... Dawn just won her fourth ribbon.

Ursula is awesome and hilarious. Her and Dawn are going to have a great rivalry. Ursula has some sass and even though she's mean, she's not TOO mean. And I like her design.

Barry is exactly like his game counterpart, although I don't think he realizes how mean of a person Paul is and how his own training style resembles Ash more than Paul. He lost, so he goes and trains hardcore. Paul would simply release whatever Pokemon failed him and go catch a stronger one, since to him, training is for pansies. I like Barry's potential - him and Ash are both hotheads and are definitely a good pair of rivals because of their similarities. The Ash-Paul-Barry triangle works wonders.

Ash beating Fantina was fantastic. Counter shield was utilized beautifully, as were some of his moves to use Flamethrower as a diversion during a Flame Wheel. I'm really liking the gym battles here - they're way better than Hoenn's. The fight with Maylene was really intense and brutal, the one with Wake was interesting due to Ash subbing Pokemon and not letting any of his faint a la Nuzlockes, and the one with Fantina as I said was fantastique. Byron was an okay battle. I was more amazed that Byron had such a boisterous personality, because he's the gym leader I can never remember in the games since he really doesn't do anything.

The Iron Island sequence was awesome, although I do wish they had Ash using Aura at some point or another as well and have had Riley react to it. Team Galactic is by far one of the most cruel I've seen... they were going to blow up the entire island when it was no longer useful to them, killing a lot of Pokemon and people in the process. They are EVIL. VERY EVIL. It's all about them, which makes for entertaining villains. Riley and Lucario moving the explosion with Force Field was brilliant and beautiful. That entire two-parter was great. I'm hoping we get more Galactic action before The Battle Finale of Legend, which as I've said I already watched. All three episodes of that sequence, anyway.

Dawn should have captured that Phione that was crushing on Buneary. That would have made for more hilarious interactions with a pseudo love triangle and would have given another Pokemon potential for growth. Although Dawn's focus right now is on getting Mamoswine to obey her. Lazy glutton is acting like an apathetic Snorlax in similar fashion to Ash's Charizard. Thankfully it won't be eons for it to learn to listen. But I am enjoying all of these little sub-plots going on.

Safe to say I'm enjoying this. Looking forward to Candice, who was my favorite gym leader in the DPP games. Hoping the anime keeps her perkiness and humor. Also soon is the Snowpoint Temple insanity with Hunter J, Paul, Pyramid King Brandon, and uh... don't remember who else, so don't spoil me! All I know is who shows up, not what all happens.
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  #38    
Old March 19th, 2014, 10:57 AM
LividZephyr
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Lizardo, just so you know, I didn't mean to sound like a dick above. I hope you understand where I'm coming from - it's just hard to keep track of that much. To each his own, though.

As for my watchthrough, I made it to Arceus and the Jewel of Life. To put it bluntly, that was a [bleep]ing AWESOME movie. Easily one of the best ones. Amazing. Beautiful. Meaningful. Intense. All of the above. I want to BUY it to support how awesome it was xD

As for the anime itself, it's getting a bit repetitive. I did think Candice was as awesome as she could be, and the Snowpoint stuff was awesome too. But outside of that, I'm seeing its formulaic nature again - the filler crap in Advanced Battle that made me stop watching. Like Mamoswine learning Hidden Power and blowing up Team Rocket's mecha with it... come on, that gets OLD. I'm going to keep going though! It has been slow due to life. But I'm still plugging away at it as I can. There's some good stuff in there.

I think the movie is going to reignite my interest, though. Next more Looker shenanigans, and since Looker is awesome, I am looking forward to it.

(also sorry for the double post, but this is a stickied topic that's gone over a week since I last posted)
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  #39    
Old March 19th, 2014, 06:45 PM
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Diamond and Pearl was my favorite gen of the anime. I think personally it was Ash's best journey. He didn't give away any Pokemon for good (So glad Gliscor came back) and most of his team was fully evolve. I do wish Buizel would evolve though.
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  #40    
Old May 7th, 2014, 07:40 AM
LividZephyr
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Okay, I finally finished. It took a bit due to... life stuff. And it feels really, really strange that it's over. That last episode was a real tearjerker, which doesn't help. I haven't been that sad since Gotta Catch Ya Later, another fantastically done goodbye episode.

Ash in DP was great - he actually learned, he applied his skills, and he won badges with pre-planned strategies. He still had his impulses, yes, and kept his character from the original series almost entirely while growing as a trainer. It's no wonder he finished in the top 4 at the Sinnoh League and was actually able to take down not one but two hacked ubers, and I honestly thought that DP would have been a satisfying end to focusing on Ash and going in a new direction with BW (as opposed to simply rebooting it). They ran out of new things to do with him after DP, and it shows because I doubt DP Ash can be topped. His rivalry with Paul, evaluating his strengths and weaknesses as a trainer, coming up with new combos and strategies and always trying to use them to his advantage, training smart and hard, teaching his Pokemon great moves (such as Buizel's Ice Punch and Heracross's Sleep Talk), and, well, not getting lucky in every single battle. He's come a long way, and it showed by then.

Pikachu was still Pikachu. He didn't change much from the original series at all. I always loved his Volt Tackle and it sucks that move went away in BW. I do wish Pikachu got some development here. Yes, he was part of the Counter Shield plan, and yes he was indispensable in many battles, but most of it was nothing new. Him and Ash still are bros and that's a good thing, of course. Pikachu is a crucial part of Ash's journey, after all.

Dawn is possibly the best developed character the anime has ever had, and was a huge improvement from May winning five contests in a row. She started out with confidence even though she wasn't completely sure of what she was doing, and that led to that major rut and a bout with what seemed to be depression when she failed. She grew into a mature, kindhearted trainer with a knack for contest coordinating. Finishing second in her first Grand Festival is a very, very great accomplishment. She was also very likable because of how realistic her character was while still having a story value, still having focus episodes at the end, and learning how to do everything. I think Zoey helped with that quite a bit, and Kenny may have too. Not sure who Dawn would end up with (it isn't Conway because he creeps on her), but it's probably Kenny tbh. I like Dawn a lot because she was a great companion to Ash, especially given how they took strategies from each other all the time. It worked wonders. And her development at the same time as Ash's made it clear that it wasn't just his journey and that we should care about others more.

Piplup was one of the best Pokemon characters the anime has ever had. He retained the traits of his species while being a strong character, somewhat polarizing at times with his immaturity, but at other times a fearless leader. He was very overprotective at times and could feel the love between him and Dawn - he cared a lot about his trainer because she cared so much about him. I liked that he became a walker because he added so much to the dynamic, especially with Pikachu and how they'd always play together and whatnot. Piplup had the bickering with Cyndaquil, the Draco Meteors hitting him on the head, and a lot of other amusing memes, one of which I'll get to later.

Brock needed more focus. The doctor thing wasn't sudden, as it was heavily built up from all the help he gave Nurse Joy, the time he healed the Shaymin Marley was protecting, teaching Ash and Dawn first aid, etc. There was a LOT of stuff going to Brock's change of dream, but I can't help but think his questioning of his dream came about really abruptly. Why couldn't he have thought about it at the Grand Festival, seeing Dawn coming within inches of winning Sinnoh Top Coordinator? Why did that get dumped upon us in the last three episodes? I do like Brock, but he was underutilized heavily in DP and wasn't given the development the rest of the main cast did, and I think that was because his character had already been exhausted by the time DP rolled around. He's likable but underdeveloped, and it was a good thing that he left because it gave them a chance to develop someone new, although they ultimately failed with that.

Paul is quite possibly Ash's best rival, given how they would push each other because of their different strategies and battling methods. Paul took after Ash quite a bit, and Ash's intensity grew so much because he wanted to beat Paul. The final battle between Ash and Paul was absolutely fantastic, although the pacing was at times off because of too much idle chatter or too much Team Rocket. A very intense, beautiful battle, though, which everything before that had built up to. Infernape clinching it was awesome, because it made Paul realize one of his biggest flaws: He doesn't have faith in all of his Pokemon. He just wants them to be strong right away. Infernape growing so much was huge, and that fire of wanting to show Paul everything he'd learned was really something. Like Piplup, I'd say Infernape is one of the best Pokemon characters they've ever written.

Zoey was a good friendly rival for Dawn because of how much the two got along while still pushing each other. Zoey helped Dawn tremendously with everything, after all, and because she seemed more experienced, she won in the end. I'm looking forward to a rematch, but I know I won't get one. I think Dawn would be able to beat Zoey the next time, because where does Zoey have to go after winning Top Coordinator?

The other rivals were mostly strong. Mostly. I think Conway needed more appearances, because he went almost 100 episodes between them. His creep-on for Dawn was obnoxiously hilarious, but I really wish we could have seen more of his intriguing battle styles. Using Trick Room against Ash was pure genius, because as we all know, Ash likes fast, heavy-hitting Pokemon, and Conway used that against him. Very strong rival that we needed more from, especially as a rival for Dawn's affections even though, well, Conway has no chance with her. No chance. Nando is a similar case - there was too much of a drought of him when he was doing both gyms and contests. His strategies with his music became too predictable, and usually he'd only change a single Pokemon up. I'd say he might be the weakest of the DP rivals because his potential was unfulfilled.

Barry was exactly like his game counterpart. Fines, impatience, bolting out, idolizing the strong, clumsiness, you name it. He was a perfect rival for Ash because they've very, very similar in many ways, but Barry's much more hasty and impatient even though the two of them have similar tastes in Pokemon. Tobias pretty much came out of nowhere, which is odd. You'd think Sinnoh Now would be all over "Trainer Solos Gym Leaders with Hacked Darkrai" every time he won a badge. Could have made Ash taking said Darkrai out even more awe-inspiring, even if he needed a little luck to do it. It was great to see Gary Oak, too, and I do wish he and Ash could have had a battle, because they never did have enough of them.

Dawn's other rivals were strong, too. Ursula in particular. She is by all means a b****, but she's a likable one. Her and Dawn really had an intriguing rival-camaraderie, in a way, because they bounced off of each other so well. Dawn beating Ursula in the Grand Festival, though, seemed to have way too much luck with points involved, but that rivalry was solid even if it was short. Kenny was a good rival as well, and he obviously had some feelings for Dawn even before the Sunnyshore event. He shared many similarities with Dawn, the same way as Barry and Ash, and even with the "Dee Dee" teasing, I found him to be somewhat likable and was sort of sad to see him be the one knocked out of the Grand Festival first.

Team Rocket were mostly terrible this gen, and that in part lies in how repetitive they were. They didn't get very much character development in the latter half of DP, apart from that one episode with James having another run-in with Jessebelle. They were nothing but an obstacle that stole Pokemon using redundant methods, then acted like they were heroes for doing so. They also easily got high on themselves, such as Jessie automatically assuming that she won the Grand Festival before it had even happened and acting like they should just give her celebrity status and Meowth getting a hard-on for that Glameow and acting like he could make babies with her right away. They really didn't do anything NEW with Team Rocket, and I found that to be more annoying than anything. Yes, like I said before, they ruined some potentially great moments, but they also killed the pacing in episodes that could have functioned without them. They still had too many mechas with so little cash, and too many times the same things happened (either an oversight or OMGZ evolution/new move, Team Rocket is suddenly toast!). They really needed new bad guys.

And that last claim lies in part with having Hunter J and Team Galactic constantly showing up to make chaos. Team Galactic was heartless, showing no mercy to anyone or anything and even attempting to blow up Iron Island for no fathomable reason other than to be bad guys. They were much, much more effective at their jobs than Jessie, James, and Meowth and I actually came to hate them to the point that I wanted to see their undoing - the same goes for J. J's death was really something - something you don't see much at all in the anime. She DIED in a beautiful explosion, easily getting what was coming to her. She was ruthless, nasty, heartless, mean, megalomaniacal... all the makings of a good villain. She did the same thing every time, yes, but that doesn't matter since we got the appropriate amount of her doing those things. I didn't think it felt overboard.

---

I do have to say that DP finished very, very strongly. The entirety of Sinnoh League Victors was pretty much amazing, with an exception or two being Team Rocket stupidity (stealing a tower and turning it into a rocket? That's by far the most ridiculous thing the anime's ever done and it doesn't even fit in their reality). I really liked most of the other episodes in that season. I LOVED "Piplup, Up, and Away" and could not stop laughing with Piplup's fantasies of Dawn coming to gush over him, then him getting horny and crying to her when she actually DID. Absolutely hilarious. There was also "Dawn of a Royal Day" when Dawn and Salvia switched places and produced an endless array of hilarious moments when they did. Jessie's speechlessness in response to "I am so happy I got to meet you" was amazing, too. And then we had the Grand Festival, which was an amazingly strong note to finish Contests in the anime with. So many beautiful displays, intense battles, amazing combos... a very high note for both contests and for Dawn.

It's hard to pick favorite episodes - I mean, yes some of them were boring, but others were fantastic and wouldn't have functioned as well without other episodes. There was so much that was interconnected here and that helped increase the value of 75% of episodes tremendously.

I really liked how they had so many characters from the games making appearances - all of the stat trainers and the Elite Four appeared, which was a major improvement from constant forgettable characters of the day, even if some of them were utilized as one-shot characters. We did get some characters of the day, yes, but we also got multiple people appearing again and again (many of them serious coordinators, as opposed to one-time contest entrants that we forget about later), many cameos, and many references too. Everything in DP was a cohesive whole - it felt like a series, as opposed to a hodgepodge of episodes with the same protagonists, which is exactly what Hoenn was (and Hoenn was terrible, but I can't comment on Battle Frontier).

There were a few issues, though. Bertha insisting upon Ash honing his powers of perception, then him forgetting that advice quickly. Ambipom abruptly leaving with absolutely no buildup to that. Ash not remembering the wind currents from Poke Ringer when having his sky battle with Gliscor. There being 108 coordinators in the Grand Festival - doing the math means that if it is an annual event, that's two contests a day given all the ribbons won by coordinators that didn't get five. Minor things like that. But they're not a big deal, as the good far outweighs the bad in DP. Overall, I am very glad I watched all of it, because it kept my interest far more than Hoenn, and I hope the anime goes in the direction they did with DP again. DP was the only risk they took that paid off - having Max in AG failed and rebooting in BW failed and so far XY is too fillerific for my tastes. If XY is a repeat of Hoenn, maybe Gen VII will bring us another DP and it'll be awesome.

DP may have taken four years, and the final stretch of episodes appeared a bit rushed, but it was worth it. I recommend this series over AG and BW by a longshot, and I find it more cohesive than the length the original series spanned as well (although I still prefer parts of that). Again, happy I watched, and sorry for the wall of text here xD
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  #41    
Old May 10th, 2014, 04:26 PM
precita
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LividZephyr View Post
Ash in DP was great - he actually learned, he applied his skills, and he won badges with pre-planned strategies. He still had his impulses, yes, and kept his character from the original series almost entirely while growing as a trainer.
Yeah, DP felt like it was written as the series finale for Ash. If Pokemon wasn't so based on merchandizing and advertising I think this would have been Ash's last saga. It seems like the writers really wanted him to win the league this time especially with all the foreshadowing about the Elite 4 and Cynthia which sadly never happened.

Quote:
Dawn is possibly the best developed character the anime has ever had, and was a huge improvement from May winning five contests in a row.
Where on earth did you get the idea that May won 5 Contests in a row? This never happened in either the Hoenn or BF Contest arcs. The most Contests she ever won in a row was 3.

As for Dawn, she was obviously the most focused on companion, I'm just disappointed her personality didn't change much after she got over her early depression streak. That and none of her rivals went through any development and never provided much challenge to her. Kenny was always a loser, Ursula gets beaten everytime she shows up, and Dawn never even battles Nando so I don't know if he even counts. The writers really dropped the ball with DP Contest rivals aside from maybe Zoey.

Quote:
rock needed more focus. The doctor thing wasn't sudden, as it was heavily built up from all the help he gave Nurse Joy, the time he healed the Shaymin Marley was protecting, teaching Ash and Dawn first aid, etc. There was a LOT of stuff going to Brock's change of dream, but I can't help but think his questioning of his dream came about really abruptly. Why couldn't he have thought about it at the Grand Festival, seeing Dawn coming within inches of winning Sinnoh Top Coordinator? Why did that get dumped upon us in the last three episodes?
Funny thing is the last episodes of AG build-up to Brock's doctor goal too, so he could have been written out back then.

Quote:
Paul is quite possibly Ash's best rival, given how they would push each other because of their different strategies and battling methods. Paul took after Ash quite a bit, and Ash's intensity grew so much because he wanted to beat Paul. The final battle between Ash and Paul was absolutely fantastic, although the pacing was at times off because of too much idle chatter or too much Team Rocket. A very intense, beautiful battle, though, which everything before that had built up to. Infernape clinching it was awesome, because it made Paul realize one of his biggest flaws: He doesn't have faith in all of his Pokemon. He just wants them to be strong right away. Infernape growing so much was huge, and that fire of wanting to show Paul everything he'd learned was really something. Like Piplup, I'd say Infernape is one of the best Pokemon characters they've ever written.
Yeah, it makes you wonder what the heck the writers were thinking with Gary barely appearing at all for the entire span of Johto. The fact that Ash and Gary don't even have a battle until the finale of Orange Islands is odd in itself.

---

Quote:
Everything in DP was a cohesive whole - it felt like a series, as opposed to a hodgepodge of episodes with the same protagonists, which is exactly what Hoenn was (and Hoenn was terrible, but I can't comment on Battle Frontier).
I didn't think Hoenn was terrible, that would be the Johto saga. Johto was bad because of the sheer mass of tedious fillers, (literally 70% of Johto is filler and only made to introduce a new pokemon), Ash's Johto Pokemon being boring and dull replacements for the Kanto starters, the original trio bombing and failing as a group, and Misty becoming as flat and dull as Brock was in DP. Its probably the main reason why Misty received such an early and permanent departure from the series, instead of allowing her to stay like they did with Brock. The fact that the writers didn't even bother giving Misty any type of cameo or return in the DP series really shows they completely closed the door on that character.

Hoenn's only major fallings were the Team Magma/Aqua story and Max. Everything else was a huge step up for the show. Not to mention the chemistry between May and her rivals is far better than any of Dawn's. I'd also wager to say the humor was a bit better, but I might be basing that off the dub so I dunno.

Quote:
Overall, I am very glad I watched all of it, because it kept my interest far more than Hoenn, and I hope the anime goes in the direction they did with DP again. DP was the only risk they took that paid off - having Max in AG failed and rebooting in BW failed and so far XY is too fillerific for my tastes. If XY is a repeat of Hoenn, maybe Gen VII will bring us another DP and it'll be awesome.
I doubt DP will ever happen again. But I agree with most of what you said otherwise. It really felt like for the first time the show "grew" with its audience while still sticking to the same formula. I'm not sure why they abandoned it with BW and XY though, perhaps it didn't work with kids?

Last edited by precita; May 10th, 2014 at 04:40 PM.
  #42    
Old July 9th, 2014, 05:49 PM
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Just started the first of the 4 seasons, basically a blind watch for me since I know absolutely nothing about the region or the regions pokemon. IJust got to the point where Brock arrives, don't know whether I like it yet or not thatnhes back. He was getting stale for me in the battle frontier.

I'm hoping to finish this before summer ends. Here we go!
  #43    
Old July 9th, 2014, 05:50 PM
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Brock was terrible for the majority of DP, as was Team Rocket for most of it, but other than that you should be able to enjoy it.
  #44    
Old July 14th, 2014, 09:25 AM
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34 episodes in to the first season, its so-so. A lot of filler so far with only 1 Ash Gym Battle. I like the contest but it seems there's been to many already.
  #45    
Old July 14th, 2014, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Scotash! View Post
34 episodes in to the first season, its so-so. A lot of filler so far with only 1 Ash Gym Battle. I like the contest but it seems there's been to many already.
Diamond & Pearl is a long series, and the fact that it’s entirely set in the Sinnoh region means that the time between Gym battles is often stretched to very long lengths. If you’re coming off the relatively quick-moving Best Wishes anime, it’s probably going to be jarring and I don’t blame you for finding it boring. I personally don’t mind it, though.

I don’t think there’s that much filler in the first thirty-four episodes. Only 10 of them (29% by my math, which admittedly isn’t my strongest suit :p) would really fit the definition in the strictest sense. Even if the time between Gym battles gets irritatingly drawn out, DP introduces some interesting subplots in the meantime to fill out the time effectively: Pokémon Contests, four Shinji episodes, Hunter J, capture episodes, evolutions, etc. It’s really what Jouto should have been doing its whole run, but only really started to do in the last third of it. A slow-moving Pocket Monsters anime can work provided there’s enough content to keep from getting bogged down in endless filler, and I think DP manages that pretty well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by precita View Post
Brock was terrible for the majority of DP, as was Team Rocket for most of it, but other than that you should be able to enjoy it.
Takeshi I would agree with, but I don’t see how the Rockets were any better or worse than they were in the previous two shows. I liked how Musashi’s ambitions as a coordinator were actually taken seriously enough that she was allowed to win five ribbons and make it to the Grand Festival semifinals.
  #46    
Old July 15th, 2014, 11:47 AM
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Outside of Jessie being a coordinator, this was where TR fell into a rut. The fact that they kept their Hoenn Pokemon Seviper/Cacnea/Dustox for more than 70 episodes into DP, (and Seviper lasts the entire run), shows the writers had no clue what to do with them.

I'm honestly very surprised the Hoenn Pokemon lasted so long into DP.
  #47    
Old July 17th, 2014, 08:14 AM
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I think they've been stuck in a rut since the OS ended, even more so than Satoshi and Pikachu, who at least used to have some of the details of their journey changed with every new region. New Pokémon or not, it doesn't stop the Rocket trio from fulfilling the same purpose almost each episode.
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  #48    
Old August 3rd, 2014, 06:51 AM
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Finished watching the Sinnoh series. Overall, barring the fact that I did honestly feel that there was a lot of filler episodes, I loved it. I say there was a lot of filler but once I really got into it about a season and a bit in, I didn't mind. The way they managed to draw 8 badges out of over 190 episodes is incredibly brave, but it worked. At the start I was a bit worried that Ash was kind of a second tier player in this series as it felt it was more aimed towards Dawn but I have to say it was 50/50 as Dawns contests became just as important as Ash's Gym Battles/

The inclusion of a new rival in Paul was great, the Paul character was a right smug little thing and was a great foil to Ash who's the complete opposite. The battles they had before and at the Sinnoh League were excellent.

Brock was actually quite important to the Ash and Dawn, he really helped the characters in my opinion.

Overall a great series and one I'll watch again.
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