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Smogon and the Pokemon Metagame

SparksPKMN

39
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10
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  • Age 23
  • Seen Jun 28, 2014
So, some time ago Smogon banned Mega Blaziken (for Speed Boost), Mega Kangaskhan (for unstoppableness involving Power-Up Punch), and Mega Gengar (for general trickery) from their whatever-thing. I don't really care much about their whatever-thing, but this got my attention. Why? Because as a fan of Pokemon and my involvement with its meta. This type of thing has really has gotten on my nerves in the past (the banning of Soul Dew, for example) and I'm fearing an all-out ban of the use of Mega Stones online for X and Y.
Don't worry, this won't be an essay, but an articulation of my opinion (a rant, you could say). The reason this bothers me so much is the fact that other video games let their metas evolve on their own. If Pokemon did this, it would be like this: Someone finds a really powerful Pokemon, and they use it in the meta. Some of the meta copies this person, while the rest look for a counter. As many start using this counter, people can predict that they will be facing this counter, and the meta flows like that accordingly. However, Smogon doesn't seem to want that to happen. What they are doing is trying to ban all Pokemon that take over the meta without letting it flow, thus creating a somewhat broken meta.

I'm sorry if this is in the wrong place, but I was kinda in a hurry in typing this because it's pretty long.
 

scprepschool

412
Posts
15
Years
SparksPKMN said:
So, some time ago Smogon banned Mega Blaziken (for Speed Boost), Mega Kangaskhan (for unstoppableness involving Power-Up Punch), and Mega Gengar (for general trickery) from their whatever-thing. I don't really care much about their whatever-thing, but this got my attention. Why? Because as a fan of Pokemon and my involvement with its meta. This type of thing has really has gotten on my nerves in the past (the banning of Soul Dew, for example) and I'm fearing an all-out ban of the use of Mega Stones online for X and Y.
Don't worry, this won't be an essay, but an articulation of my opinion (a rant, you could say). The reason this bothers me so much is the fact that other video games let their metas evolve on their own. If Pokemon did this, it would be like this: Someone finds a really powerful Pokemon, and they use it in the meta. Some of the meta copies this person, while the rest look for a counter. As many start using this counter, people can predict that they will be facing this counter, and the meta flows like that accordingly. However, Smogon doesn't seem to want that to happen. What they are doing is trying to ban all Pokemon that take over the meta without letting it flow, thus creating a somewhat broken meta.

I'm sorry if this is in the wrong place, but I was kinda in a hurry in typing this because it's pretty long.
Click to expand...

You dont have to play by smogons rules. However if you ever aspire to perform on a competitive platform then you'll most likely have to let go or your wants for op pkmn
 

SparksPKMN

39
Posts
10
Years
  • Age 23
  • Seen Jun 28, 2014
scprepschool said:
You dont have to play by smogons rules. However if you ever aspire to perform on a competitive platform then you'll most likely have to let go or your wants for op pkmn
Click to expand...

I know, I know, but it kinda worries me that the guys running X and Y will ban them from the official...
 

SparksPKMN

39
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10
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  • Age 23
  • Seen Jun 28, 2014
scprepschool said:
What do you mean official? Like the world championships or online all together? They won't ever ban anything from online all together if that's what your worried about. I hope I'm not jinxing anything lol
Click to expand...
Like every online battle. I'm afraid they will ban Mega Stones like they did with Soul Dew
 

scprepschool

412
Posts
15
Years
SparksPKMN said:
Like every online battle. I'm afraid they will ban Mega Stones like they did with Soul Dew
Click to expand...

Doubt it brah, soul dew is more of an exclusive type of item than the mega stone. If they did that would be lame because most mega evolutions aren't even that great and unlike soul dew the mega stone itself is the only extension to a battle mechanic, so if they ban mega stones they ban the whole m evolution mechanic, which seems silly
 

NRG

59
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10
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  • Age 34
  • Seen Mar 9, 2015
The things you've mentioned have been banned to their ubers tier? They can still be used in smogon ubers battles right? They've been banned from OU tier because they are too powerful for it.

I'm not sure how anyone can complain about mega kangashkan being banned to ubers unless they abuse it's OPness. It has taunt-resistant swords dance that deals damage, breaks focus sash and sturdy, has massive attack, can hit through sub etc.

If you're playing battlespot you have to bring a counter to it every time, and assume they lead with it. I run rock polish, weakness policy rhyperior as it counters mega blaziken too.
 
Sopheria

Sopheria

響け〜　響け！
4,904
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10
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The things you've mentioned have been banned to their ubers tier? They can still be used in smogon ubers battles right? They've been banned from OU tier because they are too powerful for it.
Click to expand...

No, they're banned from play altogether. You're not even allowed to use them in Ubers.

I have to say, I completely agree with Smogon's bans. Smogon is actually very reluctant to ban anything, and they only do it in cases of extremely overpowered Pokemon. The problem with certain Pokemon like Mega Blaziken and Mega Kangaskhan is that there is a very limited number of counters to them. With them in the metagame, players wouldn't get much variety in the teams they could use because they would be forced to make a team that could counter those Pokemon. That ruins the fun of the metagame when you have to tailor your entire team just to counter one threat.
 
Last edited:

SparksPKMN

39
Posts
10
Years
  • Age 23
  • Seen Jun 28, 2014
If you're playing battlespot you have to bring a counter to it every time, and assume they lead with it. I run rock polish, weakness policy rhyperior as it counters mega blaziken too.
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This is why I don't think anything should be banned, because everything has a counter.
 

NRG

59
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10
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  • Age 34
  • Seen Mar 9, 2015
zomgitscathy said:
No, they're banned from play altogether. You're not even allowed to use them in Ubers.
Click to expand...

Have they not updated their tiers information or something?

Everything I'm reading says that Blaziken itself, Gengarite, Kangaskhanite, Lucarionite are all banned from OU but only the following applies to ubers:

Endless Battle Clause
Moody Clause
OHKO Clause
Sleep Clause
Species Clause
 

SparksPKMN

39
Posts
10
Years
  • Age 23
  • Seen Jun 28, 2014
I have to say, I completely agree with Smogon's bans. Smogon is actually very reluctant to ban anything, and they only do it in cases of extremely overpowered Pokemon. The problem with certain Pokemon like Mega Blaziken and Mega Kangaskhan is that there is a very limited number of counters to them. With them in the metagame, players wouldn't get much variety in the teams they could use because they would be forced to make a team that could counter those Pokemon. That ruins the fun of the metagame when you have to tailor your entire team just to counter one threat.
Click to expand...
I think that trying to find a counter for that Pokemon would be beneficial and enjoyable as once you find a counter, you reach your incentive: some wins against that Pokemon. And it makes it interesting when two people battle and neither of them have the Pokemon, but two different counter teams.
 
Cerberus87

Cerberus87

Mega Houndoom, baby!
1,639
Posts
11
Years
Simply don't play Showdown and tell people to ♥♥♥♥ off if they complain about you using "banned" Pokémon in Battle Spot.

In the pre-Smogon days, Snorlax was the dominant Pokémon but people didn't seem to want to ban it anyway, despite it being the best Pokémon in the game, and as good as the Ubers (maybe even better than things like Ho-Oh).
 
Sopheria

Sopheria

響け〜　響け！
4,904
Posts
10
Years
NRG said:
Have they not updated their tiers information or something?

Everything I'm reading says that Blaziken itself, Gengarite, Kangaskhanite, Lucarionite are all banned from OU but only the following applies to ubers:

Endless Battle Clause
Moody Clause
OHKO Clause
Sleep Clause
Species Clause
Click to expand...

Wait, you might actually be right. I thought I remembered reading a thread in the forums saying they changed their ban policy in XY, but I can't find it at the moment...
 

BadassPanda

18
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11
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  • Age 28
  • Seen Jun 7, 2014
If smogon wouldn't ban anything we would end up with players playing with the same old pokemons all the time and the ones who don't use them loses the matches until they start using them. It would make the game boring.
 
Nah

Nah

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zomgitscathy said:
Wait, you might actually be right. I thought I remembered reading a thread in the forums saying they changed their ban policy in XY, but I can't find it at the moment...
Click to expand...

"Banned" Pokemon can be used in Ubers. The Uber tier is essentially where you can battle with all the "banned" Pokemon.

Also, Badass Panda hit the nail on the head; the reason why tiers and banlist exist is because if they didn't, everyone would use the same ♥♥♥♥ all the time, making for a very boring metagame.
 

SparksPKMN

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  • Age 23
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And in that case, why hasn't Game Freak created an official tier system for online play?
 

SparksPKMN

39
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10
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  • Age 23
  • Seen Jun 28, 2014
zomgitscathy said:
No need, really. Battle communities and servers have done a good enough job making their own tier systems.
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But the in-game ranking and straight-up random battle finding system can result in some seriously unfair matches. I don't think they should be replaced, but to have an additional option for tiered battles in X and Y and future generations.
 
Nah

Nah

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SparksPKMN said:
But the in-game ranking and straight-up random battle finding system can result in some seriously unfair matches. I don't think they should be replaced, but to have an additional option for tiered battles in X and Y and future generations.
Click to expand...

Ranked Battle Spot battles have most Uber pokemon banned from them.
 
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