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  #1    
Old April 9th, 2013, 05:01 PM
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zdude18
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ok i cant be the only one who notices this. what the heck? ash definitely should have won a league by now with all of the experience he has gotten but the fact still remains that he always comes up short. in addition may and dawn dont win any grand festivals, which is dumb because both of them are great, especially dawn. i thought for sure dawn would win hers but of course the writers refuse to let any of the main characters achieve their goal. discuss.
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Old April 9th, 2013, 05:21 PM
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Because they've advanced so far and still there's always more to come.

Seriously. Unless you're an incredibly rare case, there is always going to be somebody better than you. No matter how hard you try or how much effort you put in. That's life.

I mean Ash did win the Orange League. He conquered the Battle Frontier. He's consistently a high-ranking trainer. It just so happens that there continue to be people that are better than him. Also, he's the main character. He needs excuses to keep on travelling, and challenging leagues is his main thing. If he won, then what? He'd certainly be deemed too strong to run around challenging gym leaders. And maybe he's be disallowed to compete in any regional league for a year or something idk.

And wow, May and Dawn have both become extremely highly ranked coordinators. They've both made runner-up in huge festivals. And think of where and when they started! They came that far in- going by Ash's persisting age- under a year! And they routinely compete against people who have been doing it longer and are much more experienced and competent than they are. It's amazing that they do as well as they do.

So you know what? It's perfectly fine and logical that the main characters don't win anything major. They do really damn well, and that's enough for me.
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Old April 9th, 2013, 06:01 PM
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i see your points but when they were going to knock dawn and may out of the anime anyways, wouldnt it had made sense for at least one of them to win? i think it would have made a better story. that being said, i fully expect the main characters to win their respective leagues whenever the final arc of pokemon comes along :'(
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Old April 9th, 2013, 06:09 PM
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Nah, I don't think they should have. Because that would have felt really final, wouldn't it? As it is, we know that they're continuing their adventures and living their lives and trying to achieve their dreams. If they had achieved their dreams in-series, at age 10, what would they have done from there? I'm sure they'd find something else to do, but that seems a bit too much like an early end to two very promising careers.
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Old April 9th, 2013, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by EternallyAnna View Post
Because they've advanced so far and still there's always more to come.

Seriously. Unless you're an incredibly rare case, there is always going to be somebody better than you. No matter how hard you try or how much effort you put in. That's life.

I mean Ash did win the Orange League. He conquered the Battle Frontier. He's consistently a high-ranking trainer. It just so happens that there continue to be people that are better than him. Also, he's the main character. He needs excuses to keep on travelling, and challenging leagues is his main thing. If he won, then what? He'd certainly be deemed too strong to run around challenging gym leaders. And maybe he's be disallowed to compete in any regional league for a year or something idk.

And wow, May and Dawn have both become extremely highly ranked coordinators. They've both made runner-up in huge festivals. And think of where and when they started! They came that far in- going by Ash's persisting age- under a year! And they routinely compete against people who have been doing it longer and are much more experienced and competent than they are. It's amazing that they do as well as they do.

So you know what? It's perfectly fine and logical that the main characters don't win anything major. They do really damn well, and that's enough for me.
I kind of disagree. Ash's goal is to become a Pokemon Master, which in itself isn't really defined. So if he does win a league (say the Sinnoh League) would that make him a Pokemon Master? We don't know, and really... it probably wouldn't. Even after Ash defeats all of the Battle Fronteir Leaders and is offered a place amongst them (some compare BFL to the strength of E4 members), he declines and continues to satisfy his insatiable hunger of becoming stronger and becoming a Pokemon Master. What I'm trying to say here is, if we don't know what a Pokemon Master is, but we do know that's his ultimate goal, how would it be possible to know that winning a league would mean finally accomplishing it?

Of course that could be countered though "well if we don't know what a PM is, then...how do you know that winning a League wouldn't mean becoming a PM?". And well, that's because, he's won leagues before. The Orange Island for example. But, even then, he wasn't classified as a Pokemon Master. I think the issue morover here is the ambiguous definition or really lack of thereof what a Pokemon Master actually is.

Personally I think winning leagues will help Ash move closer to achieving his final goal, but I certainly don't think that's what will define him as a Pokemon Master.

(If that all makes sense XD)
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Old April 9th, 2013, 07:07 PM
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But it's like you said- the goal of "Pokémon Master" is not defined at all. Really the only thing we have to go on is that it involves training all kinds of Pokémon and becoming stronger. And the closest thing to a goal like that is winning a regional league. So at least in my mind, the goal of "Pokémon Master" has kind of turned into "train as hard as possible in an attempt to win the next regional league". Therefore I think more along the lines of well, if Ash wins the leagues, then he's done it.

The problem here is definitely that Pokémon Master doesn't actually... mean anything solid. I'm under the impression that even the writers don't really know what to do with Ash at this point, so they won't allow him to win a league because then he'll have no tangible goal.
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Old April 9th, 2013, 07:10 PM
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i see what you mean, thanks for talkin some sense into me haha. i just got over dawns loss tho so yeah
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Old April 9th, 2013, 10:30 PM
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I think when the Pokemon franchise will at last stop creating more Pokemons and a new region, Ash cannot win the league. If he does than he has to be replaced with another guy which will create a major loss to the franchise
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Old April 9th, 2013, 11:21 PM
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Not necessarily. Some of the greatest sports teams have never won a major trophy for years if ever. Ash has only competed in six leagues or so while sports teams have competed in hundreds.

Ash not winning a league is not such a big deal when you think about it logically.
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Old April 10th, 2013, 03:19 PM
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it is when its a television show that makes you want him to win and he always loses. naturally youll always want the protagonist to win.
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  #11    
Old April 10th, 2013, 10:52 PM
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True to say but this again would come towards the point I said earlier. People will stop watching the anime seeing that the major goal of the protagonist is accomplished
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Old April 11th, 2013, 10:36 PM
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Not really, just if Ash wins one regional league tournament, that does not automatically make him qualify as being a Pokemon Master so people will still continue to watch. Even if and after he does become one, people will probably still watch anyway to see the aftermath and to see how Ash will cope with his new title and how others around him will see him.
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