Fanfiction Awards

icomeanon6 said:

I hate to sound condescending, but I don't think the majority of this little writer's community is critical enough to vote intelligently on this sort of a contest. If we were to have some sort of contest (which I don't really think we should), it would definitely need to have judges, IMO. The main problem with having people vote for these kinds of things is that most of the voters probably won't even bother to read all of the nominated fics.

I'm kind of wondering why we'd bother having an award system at all. When we smack some award on a fic, we're essentially saying "This is just great the way it is, don't change it," which is not what we should do to any story on this forum. We should be encouraging people to improve, not telling them that they can rest on their laurels.

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Sadly I agree with you a bit on the first part of your post ("most of the voters probably won't even bother to read") but I disagree on the latter part because I don't think that's how it works. I think a job well done is a job well done.

Say you sweat out 20 hours behind a keyboard to write this deep story. What's the harm in getting a little graphic to throw in your profile/signature that says "People think this is a great story"?

Understandably this system would create a trend towards popularity contests but who says that is a bad thing? Say you have this great story nobody reads--well here's a chance to really push it on to people and let them check it out. And--if the story is as great as you/anyone says then it will get its votes.

Okay, sorry if I sound angry but that's just ********. I know that I'm not the best author ever or anything, I'm not that egotistical, but despite everyone who's ever touched any of my fics (except that one judge) loving it and saying that my writing is great and all, I'm practically unknown. You may say that that's because of my procrastination and inactivity and general board inactivity, but what you said about people getting the word out evidently isn't working in my case, rather, I am mysteriously getting skipped over because people simply don't know who I am and are either A) unwilling to try out something by an unknown author, B) don't want to read through 28 chapters in the Flamestar Chronicle's case to get caught up, C) are put off by my un-inventive titles <_<, or D) can't stand anything that's not your standard garden variety journey fic (which may be why my readers of TFC have dwindled, because it started out sort of like one but changed into something else, tricking the readers).

The truth is that any writing's popularity isn't based on the quality; there are plenty of published books that are terrible but extremely popular, and ones that aren't so popular but great. The same goes for fics, and you'd be a fool to deny it.

Astinus said:

No, Shrike! Don't mention that drama contest!

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I didn't see much drama ._. It must have happened behind the scenes or something where I didn't notice. :O

EDIT: Damn, ninja'D twice. WHY AM I SO SLOW?!
EDIT 2: About the whole sig thing, I used to have excerpts from reviews in my sig but scrapped that as it made me seem way too egotistical. I'm not sure how much it helped, anyways. Now I have the whole third place winner thing about Waves down there, but that's definitely not helping since I've only got one review across two forums, and that was from another entrant. -_-

Shrike Flamestar said:

Okay, sorry if I sound angry but that's just ********. I know that I'm not the best author ever or anything, I'm not that egotistical, but despite everyone who's ever touched any of my fics (except that one judge) loving it and saying that my writing is great and all, I'm practically unknown. You may say that that's because of my procrastination and inactivity and general board inactivity, but what you said about people getting the word out evidently isn't working in my case, rather, I am mysteriously getting skipped over because people simply don't know who I am and are either A) unwilling to try out something by an unknown author, B) don't want to read through 28 chapters in the Flamestar Chronicle's case to get caught up, C) are put off by my un-inventive titles <_<, or D) can't stand anything that's not your standard garden variety journey fic (which may be why my readers of TFC have dwindled, because it started out sort of like one but changed into something else, tricking the readers).

The truth is that any writing's popularity isn't based on the quality; there are plenty of published books that are terrible but extremely popular, and ones that aren't so popular but great. The same goes for fics, and you'd be a fool to deny it.


I didn't see much drama ._. It must have happened behind the scenes or something where I didn't notice. :O

EDIT: Damn, ninja'D twice. WHY AM I SO SLOW?!

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I don't know if you are arguing for or against the Awards but I think you stated the reasons for your own failures at "fic popularity".

You have un-imaginative titles.
Your story is too long for a casual reader to jump into.
You are inactive and procrastinate.

These are all in your own words, so don't take offense, but I don't think that is a "mysterious reason" for getting overlooked. That's your fault.

It was about your comment that quality will be recognized by the people. From the way you said it, you made it sound like quality fics will always be popular and non popular ones aren't quality. Or is there something I misunderstood?

If they are truly good, then they will get notoriety. It's as simple as that. People aren't mysteriously going to get skipped over. Everyone appears on the same forum and everyone is on the same page as everyone else. If you write a good story then somebody will find out and the word will get spread around.

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That little paragraph right there, I mean.

jasonresno said:

I don't know if you are arguing for or against the Awards but I think you stated the reasons for your own failures at "fic popularity".

You have un-imaginative titles.
Your story is too long for a casual reader to jump into.
You are inactive and procrastinate.

These are all in your own words, so don't take offense, but I don't think that is a "mysterious reason" for getting overlooked. That's your fault.

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Clearly you haven't read any of Shrike's stories, otherwise you'd refer to his writing with more respect.

jasonresno said:

If they are truly good, then they will get notoriety. It's as simple as that. People aren't mysteriously going to get skipped over. Everyone appears on the same forum and everyone is on the same page as everyone else. If you write a good story then somebody will find out and the word will get spread around.

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Either you've been posting in smaller communities, or you haven't posted that often. Quality fic that gets skipped over does actually exist. For example... *motions to DGexe*

For another, I'd hate to be egotistical, but I'd like to think what I write is pretty quality. However, it's not unusual for me to write a chapter, post it, and not get a response on places like FFNet. Why? Because I also don't write about bandwagon stuff like new trainer journeys or romance fics -- things readers tend to look for. Does that mean I suck? Given the fact that I've studied fiction intensely (*motions to the fact that she's an English major*) enough to know the basic parts and how to make my fic readable and the fact that the number of times I've gotten negative reviews can be counted on one hand, I think it's safe to say I can write quality fic that's a crapload better than the unreadable tripe that's usually touted on FFNet. It's just that I'm neither a well-known name nor someone who pumps my story full of the familiar stuff to really get noticed.

So, no, I'm not saying "what if" here. I'm saying "this actually happens, and I don't think you realize it does." And that, of course, writing a good fic and being popular are two different things.

undoubtedly you will, but the sheer amount of voters will outweigh the steep bias and things will fall to a median--

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If you have a large number of voters. However, given how many people pay attention to this section and, out of that, how many people really care about awards (given how much of an uproar there was over the fact that FFotM was discontinued), you're not going to get that large population of voters. Ergo, you'll still have bias, particularly from kid writers who think voting's serious business.

Just look at other "popularity" contests such as the Grammies, the Golden Globes,

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I don't mean to offend you, but do you realize that both of these awards are decided by panels of judges and not by a populous? Specifically, for example, the Grammies work as such: an organization (the NARAS) of professionals who understand the business thoroughly select possible artists who deserve the awards of each category. From there, a panel of 150 experts in music carefully pore over each and every nomination to select the most deserving. It is not a voting contest in which anyone who thinks they're an expert can decide who gets what. It's an arduous process taken by people who have enough credentials to say they can, in fact, spot quality.

In fact: since this would be a community award I have to argue that your opinion on quality doesn't matter.

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Well, yes, that's my point and problem with the matter. What you're basically saying is that everyone except the most vocal don't matter here. That includes the people abstaining from voting and the people voting against -- who, combined, might both think that what's winning is a pile of crap compared to the underdogs who don't get looked at because of what they are.

That and you're assuming everyone is going to vote. What about those who wish to abstain? I'm pretty sure MotM doesn't have every member of PC taking the time to submit votes to it.

While it may not fit to your standards it will have fit to the collective PokeCommunities standards, and that is what matters.

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So, basically, you're saying that we should advertise a possible crapfic as the quality and standards for PC, rather than a fic that's actually good but gets skipped over because it's not a bandwagon piece. Gotcha.

Your other point was: "Do you really think everyone will vote?". No, I don't. But the people who do care about the awards WILL vote and--much like the Presidential elections--this will help to weed out uninformed voters. I think that is a positive.

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Uninformed voters? You know, in order to vote in this contest, you need to fall into either of two categories:

1. The voter who's going to be voting only for the fics they've read. (I'm assuming few people are actually hardcore enough to read every fic on PC, but that's just an assumption here.) Otherwise, you don't really know the story enough to actually vote for it.

2. The voter who's voting for what their friend chose. (Which, incidentally, also happens in presidential elections. After all, how do you think Bush got a second term?)

That aside, if you've got the n00bs who go "omg ill vote 4 u if u vote 4 me" as your initial population of voters, would people be inclined to vote? Actual question that I'm posing to the general community here.

Sorry to put a dampener on things, but...

jasonresno said:

If they are truly good, then they will get notoriety. It's as simple as that. People aren't mysteriously going to get skipped over. Everyone appears on the same forum and everyone is on the same page as everyone else. If you write a good story then somebody will find out and the word will get spread around.

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I will have to disagree on this. Why? Because they do not have this notoriety to begin with, pure and simple. There is, if you look, evidence of fics getting more attention then they may deserve, while other better fics are ignored by the public. This is also a problem with fanfics all over the place, not just here - on bigger and smaller boards too. It's all well and good to say 'but it'll work because these real-life events worked', but it's different on fanfictions, partly because this is the internet. It just doesn't work as well in practise.

And this will easily carry into a fanfic comp as well if one uses current fics. Evidence of that is, say, sppf's fanfic awards, I daresay. It's a sad but real fact, and something I dislike about fanfiction - many great storys never reach the limelight.

Your basing your entire argument on "What if". That just doesn't work and it's simple why.

Over the span of how ever many voters vote here on the awards you will have bias, undoubtedly you will, but the sheer amount of voters will outweigh the steep bias and things will fall to a median--they will, they always do. Just look at other "popularity" contests such as the Grammies, the Golden Globes, hell--even look at the All Star game in baseball. A few "hot" or "popular" players/movies/artists win big for a little bit but eventually it all evens itself out.

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...but but but this is NOT the Golden Globes, this is fanfiction we're talking about. Based on what I have seen for over a year now... you can't really compare those sort of things.

I'd bring in a few examples, but I really don't want to start any arguments and what-not, so I'll wisely keep quiet on that aspect. Rest assured though there are many cases of this.

I'm a bit divided on whether we should have a fanfic awards thing, btw... judges for such a thing however I foresee as failing - sppf's way probably is the best way it could work.

Xanthine, you are failing to see my point in regards to the Grammies and the Globes. I know they aren't voted on by masses of people but they are voted on and influenced by "What's Hot". For example The Dark Knight, admittedly a good film--not near as good as it's being lauded--, will sweep every award it's nominated for. Because it is the "it" film of 2008 because of factors aside from the actual film (The death of Heath Ledger).

f you have a large number of voters. However, given how many people pay attention to this section and, out of that, how many people really care about awards (given how much of an uproar there was over the fact that FFotM was discontinued), you're not going to get that large population of voters. Ergo, you'll still have bias, particularly from kid writers who think voting's serious business.

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Again with the "What ifs". Alright. Here's my response here. What /if/ not alot of people vote? Alright, that's fine. Then I think that you have to expect some sort of intelligence out of the few voters that DO pay attention to this forum. If you have a select group that votes than odds are they DO know where the good stories are in the forum and that will ultimately render your "what if" scenarios: moot.

Xanthine I think the whole crux of the situation is that there is a lack of trust in the users of this section of the forum. Either you trust them to do what they think is right, or you don't.

In regards to those who "wish to abstain" from voting--then they can't complain when their material doesn't win. It's as simple as that. There is legwork and being an english major you should know that. You can't just write something and then complain a month later when nobody realizes it's amazing. You have to do the job of promoting it. Otherwise you can't complain.

Clearly you haven't read any of Shrike's stories, otherwise you'd refer to his writing with more respect.

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Those were his words, not mine. Should I bold that?

So here's a scenario for you:

What if the voters choose quality stories for the awards?

Listen, the fact is the entire idea of an award is relative and subjective to each person. If you don't believe it is deserving than you don't have to vote. But if someone else does, by right, that is their choice.

And whoever pointed it out before is completely correct: this isn't the Grammies. This is a fanfiction contest on a Pokemon forum. If a story gets voted and wins even though you don't think it's quality--deal with it--because someone else felt it was good enough to merit a vote.

Wow, what an argument...

Could it work with just one proper judge not linked to any of the writers?

If a story gets voted and wins even though you don't think it's quality--deal with it--because someone else felt it was good enough to merit a vote.

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If it's not quality, it'll only have been voted because the other person has only read popular fics and hasn't bothered to look at other fictions and just stick to theirs. :\

You're completely missing the point here. You said that if a fanfiction is quality, people will read it. That is fact. I said that many people, such as icomeanon, claim that my writing is quality, yet despite that, not many people read it. The whole thing I'm trying to say is that I'm a living example of why what you said is wrong. I merely pointed out reasons why people may not read my fanfictions, but those reasons have nothing to do with quality nor your point.

Also, I'm sorry I let my personal feelings get the better of me here. I just don't like when people say stuff like that... It makes me feel inadequate. :D

I don't want to call it an argument. I'd like to think of it as a fundamental difference of opinion. I have faith that the users on this forum can pick a story that, while maybe it isn't the absolute best, won't shame the rest of the forum. And maybe the best story will win. Who knows? I have faith it can work.

And Shrike, the quality of your work has nothing to do with why you aren't getting noticed. If you don't do the legwork to get your material in front of people...you can't be surprised when it fails. That's purely and simply your fault. And I did look at your work and it was very good. But the fact remains a lesser fic that works harder on getting readers deserves the success moreso than someone who's content to sit and "wait" for their readers to come.

And, Shrike, it seems to me that people DO recognize you as a decent writer. So I don't think you should complain about the readers you don't have and accept the ones you do.

If you don't work to gain an audience, you don't deserve to them. Many talented people don't get recognized for their talents because they never work to sell themselves.

Think of it this way. Writing can be split into three parts: Coming up with a story, writing the story, and selling the story. Yes it is so important to have a quality idea and a quality finished written work....but it's just as important to be able to show that piece of work to the right people. Being that you aren't a niche writer like most of the OT fics you have to find those readers that will embrace your style and you can't complain when you don't appeal to every demographic. That's just how writing works. I won't read certain authors because, even if their writing is incredible, their style doesn't appeal to me.

jasonresno said:

Xanthine, you are failing to see my point in regards to the Grammies and the Globes. I know they aren't voted on by masses of people but they are voted on and influenced by "What's Hot". For example The Dark Knight, admittedly a good film--not near as good as it's being lauded--, will sweep every award it's nominated for. Because it is the "it" film of 2008 because of factors aside from the actual film (The death of Heath Ledger).

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Actually, sorry, but the only reason why I'm failing to see the point is because popularity isn't the only thing that decides who gets what award in the cases of those ceremonies. In other words, it's two different things.

Again with the "What ifs".

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Look, what you're doing here is a development thread. Part of what goes into developing any sort of process is a set of hypotheticals -- the "what ifs" -- in order to analyze whether or not a system is completely workable. You can't just assemble a system and run it without thinking about what may or may not happen first if you want the best possible outcome. As in, if you want this to be good and workable, you need to think about as many logical possible endings as you can to work backwards and see how you can change things to make your system good and workable.

So, yes, I'm going to ask as many what ifs as I'd like because if you want this system, someone's going to have to think about what might happen as a result of what you're trying to do.

Then I think that you have to expect some sort of intelligence out of the few voters that DO pay attention to this forum.

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Oh, I do, but that's not the problem. The problem is I wonder how many people out of the general number who pay attention to this forum will actually vote in this contest. Certainly not all of them, and it's difficult to say which out of the intelligent populations would be initial voters. You'd need to aim for those people in order to get a good following (because they'll know what they're talking about) in order to get more people to vote, and even then, it's not entirely a guarantee that everyone in the forum will participate or that even a majority would. Just the numbers who really care about awards.

If you have a select group that votes than odds are they DO know where the good stories are in the forum and that will ultimately render your "what if" scenarios: moot.

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But then you have another dilemma: the fact that if you're going for this scenario, you're no longer a democracy. Rather, you've got only a handful of voters -- hardly the "voice of the people" situation you were talking about earlier.

Xanthine I think the whole crux of the situation is that there is a lack of trust in the users of this section of the forum.

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While I am cynical (and anyone who's been around this forum enough could tell you that), the problem doesn't lie in a lack of trust in the users. It lies in a lack of trust of the system.

In regards to those who "wish to abstain" from voting--then they can't complain when their material doesn't win.

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No, they can't, but that's not the point. The point is you're supporting material that may or may not be crapfic and calling it the standards of PC. That reflects badly on this forum and tends to be misleading for readers who want to find something that would actually suit their fancy.

You can't just write something and then complain a month later when nobody realizes it's amazing. You have to do the job of promoting it. Otherwise you can't complain.

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I don't mean to be patronizing, but if you've actually read the stickies, you'd know that I actually do. Whenever a new chapter's out for AEM or MKD, the first post I make is in the Announcement Thread, I mention it frequently in the Lounge, and one of the links in my signature leads to a whole library of my work -- too many pieces to rightly advertise. Additionally, I frequently review on FFNet in order to get attention to my profile.

So, in short, please don't jump to conclusions and assume something that isn't true. Rather, if you'd like to make an assumption as to why I'm not a famous author, feel free to take a closer look at what I say elsewhere.

What if the voters choose quality stories for the awards?

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Define "quality" and then further explain the process by which a mass of people would zero in on a specific fic that bears all the traits of such, rather than simply vote for what's popular, keeping in mind that popularity and quality are not the same thing.

*Sighs*

Look, I know that. What I got angry over was this:

jasonresno said:

If they are truly good, then they will get notoriety. It's as simple as that. People aren't mysteriously going to get skipped over. Everyone appears on the same forum and everyone is on the same page as everyone else. If you write a good story then somebody will find out and the word will get spread around.

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Right there, you plainly said that quality fics will get notoriety, and thus popularity. You say that people will get the word out. The whole thing that I've been saying is that you are wrong there. You made it sound like magical little fairies or something will drop down and spread popularity around for good fics, when that doesn't happen. I was merely showing how it doesn't. Now you are bringing in all this stuff about advertising, but it's non-consequential to the core point at hand here which you yourself seem to have forgotten by now.

The people who know me here are the regulars, the loungers, the insane bunch, whatever you want to call them. They by no means make up the entire population of the forum. As for my performance in a contest or award or whatever, I'd like to leave that out of this. I get too egotistical when I talk about stuff like that, and as is probably already obvious, I tend to ride a fine line there.

Shrike Flamestar said:

*Sighs*

Look, I know that. What I got angry over was this:

Right there, you plainly said that quality fics will get notoriety, and thus popularity. You say that people will get the word out. The whole thing that I've been saying is that you are wrong there. You made it sound like magical little fairies or something will drop down and spread popularity around for good fics, when that doesn't happen. I was merely showing how it doesn't. Now you are bringing in all this stuff about advertising, but it's non-consequential to the core point at hand here which you yourself seem to have forgotten by now.

The people who know me here are the regulars, the loungers, the insane bunch, whatever you want to call them. They by no means make up the entire population of the forum. As for my performance in a contest or award or whatever, I'd like to leave that out of this. I get too egotistical when I talk about stuff like that, and as is probably already obvious, I tend to ride a fine line there.

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Read my above post. You have a group of readers that think you are quality. Right? Right. Enjoy that and stop complaining about what you don't have, it's selfish.

Xanthine I think you are being too idealistic. Yes this is a contest to award fiction--which is entirely subjective--but I think the key word is contest.

"Define "quality" and then further explain the process by which a mass of people would zero in on a specific fic that bears all the traits of such, rather than simply vote for what's popular, keeping in mind that popularity and quality are not the same thing."

If 150 people vote for a story that is good but only 75 people vote for a story that is really good in your eyes then it comes down to acceptance. You have to accept that the other story, while maybe not in your mind as good, still won.

You're making it sound like an absolutely abysmal peice of work is going to make its way and sweep the awards. That won't happen, you and I know it won't. The fact is that in ANY contest where there are voters you have to accept and allow for bias and popularity (and I believe popularity is fundamentally important in relation to quality. I think they are transverse.)

I want to make a final comment to Xanthine. It seems that your big worry is that an utterly horrific story will win the awards and thus tarnish the reputation of the PokeCommunity and reflect poorly on all of the website?

Well in your own words you've stated that "not many people read this forum". So how can a little award ruin the website even if (I know it won't) it goes to a horrific story?

My last comment for Shrike: You're a good writer on a website predominated by poor ones. Don't let that go to your head and it is a bit. If you've got five loyal readers than you've got the world. You don't need to win the "popularity contest" you are all so disdainful of. So don't ask "Why aren't a hundred people reviewing my stories" because that doesn't matter.

Argh, it's obvious you just won't get what I'm trying to say here. I'm not complaining--I do that in private--my whole intention originally was simply to disprove what you said. Nothing more, nothing less. I don't know why you won't just say "oh, okay, I was wrong. I shouldn't have said that. Sorry." instead of outright ignoring anything I say about the matter and instead trying to redirect my focus.

You're still rather missing the point of both our arguments. The point is that quality authors do get skipped over for what isn't quality, that this isn't good for a contest whose aim is to weed out the quality fic from the crap fic (unless you want to outright proclaim it to be a popularity contest), and that authors such as that will, therefore, be excluded from the list of winners (i.e., those who are deemed worthy of being called quality by their awards) because they're not well-known. Meanwhile, the fics that don't necessarily deserve to be called quality by the awards they've gotten through voting (most likely, through your system, by either a select few general people or the author's friends) will get on this list and essentially receive advertising from PC itself because it's stamped with PC's seal of approval -- something that really shouldn't be given out lightly at all.

The problem here, then, is not that Shrike -- or myself, for that matter -- are particularly complaining that either of us would get the award. (In fact, if I got it, I'd start writing badfic to spite the people who voted for me.) It's that we feel as if you're giving us generalizations. I don't mean to be rude here, either, but may I ask what fanfiction communities you frequent? Which ones hold contests?

Edit: Also, no, I'm not worried that an utterly horrific story will taint PC's reputation. Popularity tends to do that anyway. I'm saying that it encourages other authors to work with those kinds of standards -- and if a badfic wins, then the standards will be defined as low. It's not the outside reputation I'm worried about. It's the influence.

Shrike Flamestar said:

Argh, it's obvious you just won't get what I'm trying to say here. I'm not complaining--I do that in private--my whole intention originally was simply to disprove what you said. Nothing more, nothing less. I don't know why you won't just say "oh, okay, I was wrong. I shouldn't have said that. Sorry." instead of outright ignoring anything I say about the matter and instead trying to redirect my focus.

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I understand what you said and are saying, it's just that you're...well...wrong. You're saying that you are a good writer (a bit egotistical) but you aren't that popular and only a small demographic of users know you write well. And I'm saying: even if it's just a small demographic that you appeal to that is totally OK. You at least have that much of an audience.

Shrike this entire paragraph you wrote reeks of self pity:

Okay, sorry if I sound angry but that's just ********. I know that I'm not the best author ever or anything, I'm not that egotistical, but despite everyone who's ever touched any of my fics (except that one judge) loving it and saying that my writing is great and all, I'm practically unknown. You may say that that's because of my procrastination and inactivity and general board inactivity, but what you said about people getting the word out evidently isn't working in my case, rather, I am mysteriously getting skipped over because people simply don't know who I am and are either A) unwilling to try out something by an unknown author, B) don't want to read through 28 chapters in the Flamestar Chronicle's case to get caught up, C) are put off by my un-inventive titles <_<, or D) can't stand anything that's not your standard garden variety journey fic (which may be why my readers of TFC have dwindled, because it started out sort of like one but changed into something else, tricking the readers).

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Xanthine said:

You're still rather missing the point of both our arguments. The point is that quality authors do get skipped over for what isn't quality, that this isn't good for a contest whose aim is to weed out the quality fic from the crap fic (unless you want to outright proclaim it to be a popularity contest), and that authors such as that will, therefore, be excluded from the list of winners (i.e., those who are deemed worthy of being called quality by their awards) because they're not well-known. Meanwhile, the fics that don't necessarily deserve to be called quality by the awards they've gotten through voting (most likely, through your system, by either a select few general people or the author's friends) will get on this list and essentially receive advertising from PC itself because it's stamped with PC's seal of approval -- something that really shouldn't be given out lightly at all.

The problem here, then, is not that Shrike -- or myself, for that matter -- are particularly complaining that either of us would get the award. (In fact, if I got it, I'd start writing badfic to spite the people who voted for me.) It's that we feel as if you're giving us generalizations. I don't mean to be rude here, either, but may I ask what fanfiction communities you frequent? Which ones hold contests?

Edit: Also, no, I'm not worried that an utterly horrific story will taint PC's reputation. Popularity tends to do that anyway. I'm saying that it encourages other authors to work with those kinds of standards -- and if a badfic wins, then the standards will be defined as low. It's not the outside reputation I'm worried about. It's the influence.

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I don't frequent any communities. Just this one. The last forum I truly followed I was an S-mod at for about 5 years. It was one of the biggest Yu-Gi-Oh forums of the time and we ran into problems like this. We'd have contests where people would be afraid it'd become a blatant popularity contest. Well the truth of the matter is it just inspired people to work harder and get more well known.

The truth is you are right to a degree Xanthine. Some good authors will get looked over. But some good writers won't get skipped over. And that's it in a nutshell.

That is not a flaw in the system, that is a flaw in the people who abuse it. So don't insult the system.

Listen to me, here. Okay? Do. Not. Ignore. What. I. Say. Got it?

You have gone on for the past who knows how many posts about how I need to advertise more and how I was complaining. Okay, we get that. I get it. Get, got it, good. It's done, over, all that jazz. I see what you said, okay? Now, stop saying it.

Here's what I have to say: you, yourself, and only you are the one here who has shifted his point so many times I can't keep track of it. And I know why you're doing it, you don't want to admit that what you said was wrong and you shouldn't have said it. That's cool, not being able to take fault is one of many people's biggest flaws.

So how about this? You shut up, I shut up, we all shut up. Then we go on with our normal lives and never talk about this whole thing ever again, or at least not until Hell freezes over. Sound good?

Shrike Flamestar said:

Listen to me, here. Okay? Do. Not. Ignore. What. I. Say. Got it?

You have gone on for the past who knows how many posts about how I need to advertise more and how I was complaining. Okay, we get that. I get it. Get, got it, good. It's done, over, all that jazz. I see what you said, okay? Now, stop saying it.

Here's what I have to say: you, yourself, and only you are the one here who has shifted his point so many times I can't keep track of it. And I know why you're doing it, you don't want to admit that what you said was wrong and you shouldn't have said it. That's cool, not being able to take fault is one of many people's biggest flaws.

So how about this? You shut up, I shut up, we all shut up. Then we go on with our normal lives and never talk about this whole thing ever again, or at least not until Hell freezes over. Sound good?

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I've directly addressed every point you've made. I'm just not going to butter it up for you. You can "shut up and go on with your life", that's fine by me. Is it because I'm not sympathizing with you?

Let me write this one last time. If you can't handle it, fine.

You complain you aren't popular on here.

You say you are a good writer.

OK.

I say that apparently people do realize you are a good writer even if it's only a few.

I think that is as good as being "popular".

I think that is as good as being "popular".

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That is such bull.

Shrike writes. Shrike wants his work read by a lot of people because Shrike's story is good. (I really need to read it again.) Shrike's work is ignored in favor of lower-quality fanfics that aren't as good. Shrike feels like he's a bad writer because he's not being read by a lot of people, and has lost reviewers. (I am SO SORRY, Shrike. Forgive me?) Sure, Shrike has been told by five people that he's good, but when another author who writes bad fic is being told they are good by 200 people, it makes Shrike feel like crap.

That's how it is for a lot of writers. Not all, but a lot of them.

Look, the awards won't work for many reasons that were stated by myself, Xanthine, Shrike, bobandbill, icomeanon, and probably someone that I missed. (Bay, were you in here too?) We're experienced when it comes to these kind of things. I've seen fanfic awards elsewhere that don't work. And while PC does not equal elsewhere, there's still a lot of holes in this idea that need to be straightened out before this system can even think of getting off the ground.

jasonresno, you need to actually focus on what arguments are presented to you against this idea. Take it from people with a lot of experience: Things like this don't really work. And to state why now is just going to repeat what others have said.

Now this thread has degenerated int claiming the wrong things about people. While this thread has amused me greatly, I'm closing it for now to give people the chance to cool down. We're not getting anywhere on this, because no solution as to how this'll work has been presented.

So I'm closing this. And if it's not open in twenty-four hours, it means that I really don't care, so don't bug me.